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  • S29Am Hockenheim: February 16, 2016
February 16, 2016, 09:37:04 PM +0000 - Hockenheim (1965-2001) - UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65)
Driver
 Team
Nat. Make Model Class Qualifying Race
Tyres Pos Time/Gap Pos Time/Gap Laps Stops Best Retirement
reason
Ballast
Carlos Cendejas
 
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 1 2:03.263
123.725mph
1 43:55.931
121.500mph
21 2:02.685
124.308mph
Goodyear  
Johnny.P
 Blue Moose Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 4 +0.315
123.410mph
2 +2.895
121.367mph
21 2:03.427
123.561mph
Goodyear  
bagrupp
 
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 3 +0.156
123.569mph
3 +18.014
120.675mph
21 2:03.384
123.604mph
Goodyear  
maddog
 Antipasti Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 2 +0.006
123.719mph
4 +18.268
120.664mph
21 2:03.611
123.377mph
Goodyear  
Billy Nobrakes
 Black Night Racing
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 5 +0.966
122.763mph
5 +28.351
120.207mph
21 2:04.411
122.584mph
Goodyear  
bernie
 Soggy Bottom Racers Club
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 7 +5.385
118.546mph
6 +1:34.142
117.310mph
21 2:06.637
120.429mph
Goodyear  
Walter Conn
 WSL Racing Team
Cooper T77 (Climax) F1 1965 9 7 +2:00.207
116.201mph
21 2:05.810
121.220mph
Dunlop  
il_lupo_mannaro
 Black Night Racing
Ferrari 512 F1 1965 6 +2.037
121.714mph
8 +7L
116.730mph
14 2:05.265
121.748mph
Disco
Dunlop  
9 UKGPL
 
Brabham BT11 (Climax) F1 1965 8 9 DNS ---
---
Goodyear  

Moderator's Report

Most of the field though the Brabham would be work well here. Carlos wins the race from pole. Second & third places were taken by Johnny & Bastian.


Server replay time: 0h01m50s

Lap one at the Ostkurve. First Johnny then Fabio run wide into the corner. Fabio catches the grass which turns him sideways. Maddog is able to avoid the Ferrari on the inside. Billy takes to the grass on the outside but can\'t avoid contact. Bernie has the worst of luck when collected by Billy\'s car.
This demonstrates that drivers need to take additional care on lap 1 as even a minor incident can have serious repercussions for others.


Server replay time: 0h15m39s

Bastian needs a reset on Lap 7. He stops his car on the approach to the pit lane rather than in the pit-lane. The rules require that the Stop & Go is taken in the pit lane. Bastian did not gain any material advantage, no penalty is awarded.


Server replay time: 0h19m00s

Walter in the Cooper is chasing Bernie\'s Brabham hard to keep the tow. Bernie reports than he braked a little harder / earlier than normal which contributed to the accident. He asked that no penalty is given.

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Author Topic: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16  (Read 6120 times)
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Billy Nobrakes
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« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2016, 06:36:20 PM +0000 »

Great track when you are in traffic but on your own its a bit like driving on motorways linked together by a go cart tack. After the incident in the ost curve on lap  1 I had some good racing with Fabio. Was looking forward to continuing the battle with Bastian & Martin but I overran the turn into the Motordrome & lost the tow. Looks like the Brabham factory was working overtime to make enough cars for this race.
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Billy Nobrakes
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« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2016, 09:39:56 PM +0000 »

Mod report now published.
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bagrupp
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« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2016, 08:44:44 AM +0000 »

Thx for the report.

In the heat of the moment, I stopped on the approach, which i realized only watching the replay.
But it was no intention and no advantage, i agree.
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maddog
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« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2016, 04:58:53 PM +0000 »

0h 15m 39s  -  "The rules require that the Stop & Go is taken in the pit lane. Bastian did not gain any material advantage, no penalty is awarded."

I disagree with this ruling.  It has been stated elsewhere, that a driver must stop & go in a pitbox, and not anywhere in the pit lane.  It is unrealistic and an advantage to stop anywhere in the pitlane the driver chooses.  I would have finished ahead of Bastian, if he had stopped correctly.  This is the reason I asked for a penalty to be applied.

Please ask Phil on this matter, to help keep rules from changing unexpectedly.
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Robert Fleurke
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« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2016, 07:15:31 PM +0000 »

I would have finished ahead of Bastian, if he had stopped correctly.  This is the reason I asked for a penalty to be applied.

We don't think Bastian gained any advantage Martin. That's why Billy sticked with Advice.
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maddog
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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2016, 08:28:56 PM +0000 »

Here is the rule, the way it is written :

If a driver makes a S&G but fails to bring the car to rest in the stalls. The moderator may decide an unfair advantage has been gained and consequently a time penalty may be applied equal to 3 times the number of seconds gained. Where the number of seconds gained cannot be determined with any confidence, the moderator may decide to impose a standard 5 second penalty. This is cumulative so a driver making a late S&G and failing to stop close enough to the pit wall may incur two 5 second penalties during the one stop.

The driver stopped well before the pit stalls started.  If a car stops before the stalls, and the on track cars continue to accelerate, past the point the stop is taken, an unfair advantage will be gained by the incorrect stopper.  Perhaps the advantage was considered not enough for a penalty?  Was it more than 0.25 seconds?  Yes, as this amount is only a blink of an eye.  It also takes more care, and more time to stop in the correct area.

The rule also suggests that, "  . . failing to stop close enough to the pit wall . . ."  may incur by itself, a 5 second penalty.  If a pitstall is not required, we need to know how far from the pit wall is Ok.  shifty


  
« Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 08:31:05 PM +0000 by maddog » Logged
maddog
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« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2016, 07:02:54 PM +0000 »

I do not find this matter serious enough, to make an Appeal.  It could fast become a problem for Moderating.  Until now, most have expected the same simple stop & go rule, as used by other Leagues. 

Drivers reading this and checking the replay, will realize there's good advantage to be gained, by not stopping in a pitbox.  It's now possible to stop AT LEAST as far as the replay shows.  Maximum distance has yet to be decided?

I recommend this rule stops, and go's to new wording.  The words should say, "All cars must stop in the pitbox/pitstall area."  This would prevent driver confusion, and future problems for Moderation.  Without this change, measuring sticks and stopwatches will soon be needed. Wink
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bernie
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« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2016, 09:51:23 PM +0000 »

You could say its taking the pits  Grin

agree this rule needs some clarification , bear in mind there are pit stalls in use with no apron and some with no stalls at all .

perhaps a demo tape c/w diagram ?

 
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Billy Nobrakes
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« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2016, 10:22:48 PM +0000 »

This will be reviewed by the Mod team.
The race announcement - which has been used all Season says "... followed by a compulsory Stop & Go in the pit lane within two laps." i.e. there is no reference to pit stalls.
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maddog
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« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2016, 10:44:24 PM +0000 »

Thanks - this has changed at some point to it's present strange formula.  I suspect It's all a hairy plot, to get folks to go re-read the rules.  Reward for doing this ATM seems to be a podium. :'(  
« Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 10:54:09 PM +0000 by maddog » Logged
Robert Fleurke
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« Reply #25 on: March 21, 2016, 01:42:56 AM +0000 »

Etiquette

Quote
Any Shift-R must be followed by a Stop and Go ("S&G") in the pits. Any Stop and Go must be taken within 2 laps of the Shift-R. A "S&G" is effectively a Timed Pit Stop of zero seconds. The rules for making Timed Pit Stops are here. The section describing how to perform a stop is the most relevant for a Shift-R "S&G".


Found here (How to perform a stop)

Quote
On entering the pits, the driver should stop in the pit stall area, not on the entry/exit lane. Normally the pit stall area is marked by lines but at some circuits there are several sets of lines (Mexico) whereas at others there maybe none other than the pit lane marking itself (Albi). In general cars must stop within half a car's width of the stalls regardless of the presence of stall markings. The moderator may decide to penalize a driver who gains an unfair advantage by not stopping in the appropriate area.

Drivers are not required to stop at their own pit stall; they must however stop within the stall area and in a position which does not hinder other drivers who might be trying to enter or exit the pits.

Hope this clears things up, you need to stop in one of the pitstalls. Bastian did not do a correct S&G. But we felt Advice would do. At that point of the race it wasn't a position deciding advantage, if there was any.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 01:58:03 AM +0000 by Robert Fleurke » Logged

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maddog
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« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2016, 08:38:28 AM +0000 »

It's nice to see the correct rule dug up, and in full flower.  When individual race instructions and the rulebook conflict, I would guess the more immediate race regulations come 1st.  But be aware you are overruling the rulebook when doing this, and expecting your drivers to both read and drive.  Grin

I would guess 2 or 3 seconds was gained by the victim of all this speculation, Bastian.  As you know, it's not possible to rewind the tapes, and continue the race, with our dastardly offender 2 or 3 seconds back down the road.  Penalties are applied at race end.  I shall consider writing to the Houses of Parliament in London, about this. 
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bagrupp
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« Reply #27 on: March 21, 2016, 09:22:32 AM +0000 »

Well Martin,

i remember you short cutted with all 4 Wheels in the motodrom about 5 Times,
this should be 2-3 Seconds as well.

We should just race and not look at every little thing like in f1 ourdays.
If you go on like this I will report your short cutting as well.
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bernie
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« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2016, 11:14:22 AM +0000 »

Quote
Quote
Any Shift-R must be followed by a Stop and Go ("S&G") in the pits. Any Stop and Go must be taken within 2 laps of the Shift-R. A "S&G" is effectively a Timed Pit Stop of zero seconds. The rules for making Timed Pit Stops are here. The section describing how to perform a stop is the most relevant for a Shift-R "S&G".


Found here (How to perform a stop)


These rules although mostly relevant today were really designed to accommodate the extended pit stops that we used for the "old"  handicap system

Is anyone still use GPL wait ? not sure if it runs alongside pribluda , could be wrong though , I haven't tried it scared to upset my GPL 

« Last Edit: March 21, 2016, 11:18:15 AM +0000 by bernie » Logged
maddog
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« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2016, 12:38:47 PM +0000 »

We should beware of complications, where they are not needed.  Almost everyone has been using the usual expected, clearly defined pitstall method, with a zero second wait.  First time I've noticed someone using this new idea.  It does not work well.

And Bastian, I am sorry for my mistake.  This chat and missed penalty would not have happened, if I realized there was not one more lap, at race end.  Lips Sealed
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