UKGPL Season 16 - Novices and Amateurs - Race 7 - 65 mod - Silverstone (GP 1952-73)

Though the Amateurs has had six different winners, there are only five drivers in contention at the seventh round of the championship.  John had a disappointment at Rouen and will need to take full advantage of the shorter straights in the next three races to get his Cooper back on terms.   Tim in the Honda, Nicky in the Ferrari and Storm in the Lotus will have to drop points, leaving Natan in the other Lotus the clear leader, though he may find that he has much less of a clear run on more crowded tracks.

His rivals' various problems have allowed Sam to build an impressive lead in the Novices, he'll be very difficult to catch, making the real races for second and third.

Silverstone will probably be a two grid race, though numbers in the Amateurs have been affected by work and other problems.   Next season I hope to continue to expand the Novices, but also promote some drivers to the Amateurs.

There has been another request for improved aero for the 65s- the RSC thread is here:  http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=329607
While some consider the 66 tow excessive, the slower top speeds of the 65s would reduce this problem to a large extent.  Also, the current 65 model isn't that of the original cars as it was impossible to make it work- the crude solution was to increase top speeds 5%.  The 65s with tow might be fantastic racing- and of course the existing 65s would still be an option.

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Race date = 2-12-2008
Time = 20:45
Track =  Silverstone (GP 1952-73)
Variant = 65F1
Damage Model = Int
Qually time = 30 minutes.
Race length = Long (24 laps)

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page

65 Mod

These were the 65 drivers
BT7 Bonnier, Baghetti, Hulme (Bonnier drove for Walker)
BT11 Brabham Gurney Gardner Anderson Siffert (Siffert drove for Walker, Gardner and Anderson were privateers)
Lotus Clark Spence Rodriguez Mitter Russo Solana (and Maggs Hailwood Attwood Amon and Ireland for Parnell)
Ferrari Surtees Bandini Rodriguez Vaccarella Bondurant Scarfiotti
Honda Ginther Bucknum
Cooper McLaren Rindt
BRM Hill Stewart

The 1965 season was the last to use the controversial 1500cc formula which had begun after 1960, to the initial advantage of Ferrari.  The 1965 cars are smaller than the 1967 cars and have less torque and hence more grip.  It was claimed that they 'cornered on rails', however this allowed the Grand Prix series to retain the use of circuits which were otherwise to prove extremely dangerous.

The 1965 cars are ideal for those new to GPL as they allow the tracks to be learnt in light reliable cars, however these are also full Formula One cars, and quite fast....  Jim Clark won the 1965 British Grand Prix from pole in a Lotus.  His qualifying time was 1:30'8.

David Wright's 'Legends' site http://fp.gplegends.plus.com/ has the download of the most recent 2.0.1 version (under 'details') as well as being an exceptional guide to both 1965 and 1967, for those interested in Formula One history.

Unfortunately the current 65 mod download does not have default setups.  Default setups for all the cars and tracks that are likely to be used can be downloaded from http://www.neurology-crew.com/gplserver under '65 setups'.  Note that you will have to add enough fuel for the race, whether short or long!

I think we need to do more than let down his tyres to slow him down , lets try making him drive the whole race in reverse.

Hmm, well, I'm out of the championship anyway, so you can do what you like.  I'm heading for second, so I'll be fighting you. 

Dont know how you can tell all that stuff from replay analiser , its all gobbly gook to me , guess Im not a graphical type of person 

Reminds me of Graham Hill when they strapped a data logger to his BRM and told him Stewart was 2 seconds faster through copse or somewhere , even though Hill was 2 secs faster than Stewart's best overall lap .

Hill's reply as he stormed off ......


Get the ruddy machine to drive for you then 

I've never used a datalogger for my real life kart racing but I find the analyser invaluable for GPL.

As far as I know I have never been on the track with Steve Cloyd and if I were then I would only be able to compair notes through Copse and Maggots at Silverstone.  After that he would be a few pixels up the road.  There is also the problem that you have very little feedback in GPL.  I always get to a point where I feel that I am doing it right but the lap times say different.  I watch the replays of fast drivers and think "Well that's what I'm doing, bugger it!!!!". 

If I overlay my fastest lap and say Steve Cloyd's WR lap, using the same setup, then all is revealed.  You home in on the corners where his trace is above yours and just for good measure tick the Time Difference box to see which corners are costing you most.  It's a no brainer to decide which ones you look at first.

This has enabled me to reduce my BT7 time from 34.3 to 33.3 over the last couple of days.  I had another look at my current best lap and have noticed that

a) He comes off the brakes earlier than me at Copse
b) He gains time on me through Becketts and Chapel even though I am flat out (I give in)
c) He has great confidence in his setup and technique at Stowe and is able to accelerate through the corner whilst I am still slowing down (I'm probably still in 67 mode)
d) I need to carry more speed through Club
e) I'm still crap at Abbey
f) I don't think that he even touches the brakes at Woodcote but I can't stop my left foot giving it a little prod as I change down. (easier on the engine)
g) It says that my best bits add up to a 32.9, so still more work to do.

Also, before I did a lap I also looked at SC's lap on the analyser and noted which gear he was in at each corner, something that I, and many beginners, get wrong and it costs heaps of time.

So I think I will keep on using it, even if Graham Hill didn't appreciate its value after a hard day's testing.  Bet Damon did.

Too damn right!

In 67s I like Andreas Wilke setups.  In 65s I like Steve Cloyd but 65s are not so critical.

I shall never do any good in 66s because there is not the choice of pre-sorted setups to chose from.  With the limited activity these days it doesn't look as though there will be so I am scupperred.

In the 66s I tend to start with a Cloyd and try to tame it with a more moderate diff and brake bias.  Trouble is that he hasn't done many tracks.

I am with you here Clive, the Analyser is invaluable for pinpointing those seemingly innocuous moments that actually cost you buckets of time. Knowledge is power....knowing where you're crap is a great help toward fixing it   Having said that, I should use it more often.....33's and less at Silvy are still eluding me.....
Telemetry is not needed when you are 3 seconds a lap slower......you can see where you are slow. But VERY useful in pinpointing 3/100ths or 1/10th of a second somewhere.

Nice discussion here, many things to learn and personally although I've driven the 65s many times, I think I suffer from the same thing.
When you push alot it usually means trying to brake as late as possible and although that might work at tracks like Monaco it definetelly doesn't at Silverstone and the likes. But it's kinda unnatural to stop yourself from doing it, especially as Clive says with the habbits from 67s which you have to trailbrake much deeper into a corner to go faster. I suppose 65s are closer to rental go-karts which don't have good acceleration at all so you try to floor them as much as possible and as early as possible and do all your braking (if any) before a corner and not into it.
I also find setuping the 65s a bit unnatural, especially tyre pressures, those usually go off the scale but it seems to work, at least for a hotlap or two.
Looking forward to this race it should be a cracker.