SimRacing.org.uk

*** This will be using the Simbin lobby ***
Make sure your LOCAL _IP_LOBBY.TXT file contains gtr2server1.gtr-evolution.com
Some have found that they can get straight in. Others have had to change their username or password or re-register


Practice: 19:20 (GMT) (60 mins)
Qual 2: 20:25 (20 mins)
Race: 20:45 ~ (19 laps)
Cars allowed:

Track: Albert Park (Melbourne) Download and install this. [/b] (http://[b)
Time of Day Setting: 13:00
Weather: Dry
Start: Standing

Tyre wear: Normal
Fuel consumption: Normal
Pit-stops: None required

Server: simracing.org.uk AGTC
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Championship Standings (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=351&theme=34)

Notes:
(1) It's best if all drivers can make sure they are connected before the Qualifying session as drivers on track during qualifying will not see
cars that join after they are on track until they go back to the garage.
(2) Please make sure you are fully aware of the SimRacing.org.uk Rules (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?pid=7) especially the
rules about in-game chat messages.
(3) You will need to install Power and Glory v3 from:  http://gtlw-blog.flyingpig.info/
(4) P&G has no 'Pit Speed Limiter' function.You may go as fast as you like in the pits, but please exercise caution. Penalties will be handed out for causing contact in the pit lane. Use your best judgement when making your pitstop during the race.

NOTE: This is a P&G V3 Event
And we will be using the simbin lobby

I have set it as P&G V3 as most people seem happy with it.
PLease let me know if anyone has a problem with that.

Wonderful - thanks Matt  :)

Both cars are awesome, looking fwd to this race.

Stig

With the indecent haste to embrace v3, I didn't get the chance to do any practice until an hour before Thursday's race.

That meant I didn't know how fast I had to go or what car I needed to be in, since v3 turned everything on its head and made the Falcon Sprint a desireable motor.

So what times am I aiming for on this one?

Actually Clive the Sprint was by far the slowest of the 3 Falcon choices available and the only one on par with the stangs from my brief testing (one flying lap in each). This was why I chose to drive it.

The Alfa and Escort are a reasonable match with the Escort having a slight upper hand for pace, but the Alfa less likely to kill you when driving on the edge. Both are very good fun  :)

Problem now reverting to the simbin lobby after last night's race using the pils lobby. Tried to register a dozen times using different usernames and email addresses but each time got the dreaded failed to connect message after half a minute or so  ???

Any ideas?

Edit: Some lateral thinking solved this, but for anyone struggling here's how:

Downloaded this and pointed it towards my PnG installation...

http://www.nogripracing.com/details.php?filenr=22308

Re-registered with another new username and voila registration was successful. A real pita though.

Well the Sprint was supposed to be the slowest Falcon!

The rules of this season are that I had the choice of the NTK Mustang or the Sprint.  In v2.1 the Sprint was an awful heap that ate is tyres like they were melting in the sun!  As far as I was concerned it was no match for the Mustang.

They seem to have to have turned that on its head.

Go with your heart Clive! Do you want to drive a famous, top-tunes brittish lawnmover or do you prefer Italian fullbread ?

Stig

I had problem, copying or typing in gtr2 etc doesn't seem to work.  Copied Lobby file from my Spare V3, original SimBin Lobby, and hey presto all works straight into the lobby without even logging on.

Different problem, can anyone point me to where I can find how to reprogram my G25 buttons to set rev limiter raise/lower seats, set chat buttons? GTR2 handbook method doesn't work for me. All driving controls etc are all at my normal setting, modified my old V2.1 file for standalone V3 - no CD etc all works OK.  Prefer not to play around with prl file again.

Clive you keep moaning about the mustang v falcon but do you need to be reminded John destroyed us all driving one? I hesitate to say its the driver not the machine on this occasion, sorry   :-* but with the disclaimer that I've not driven the new mustang myself yet!

Bill, you can edit your buttons or seat etc all in the normal way via 'controls' as you would with normal gtr2, I did the same. Click each heading like game, extras etc

Any reason why it's 'just' the escort and Alfa? Or is it always a 2 car format series? Both good cars so no complaint, just intrigued.

Don't think that I have moaned about anything apart from having to learn about a new sim in two hours.

Mark it doesn't work the way I remember it, ie click on say "Ignition" and then press the "i" on keyboard, to "Chat" click on appropriate message press wheel button to program that message, etc. 

The mouse left or right had button have no effect when clicking onto predesignated function I want to program with a button of my choice, infact if I try and program a non designated button I get JOY1B11, which then moves to the next empty function I select.

Hope you can understand what I'm trying to say.

Bill, I copied my named.plr file from my old P&G V2 folder into my new P&G V3 folder and all my settings were the same as before.

Bill, you could copy and replace just the "Controls" part of your old PnG 2.1 plr file into your V3 plr file (assuming you still have 2.1 installed).

If not you could use the info from from your GTR2 or even GTL plr file.

Just remember to only copy the part of your plr down to where the ffb settings start or you'll miss out on all the luvverly V3 ffb.

Make a backup of your plr first  ;)

Edit: Tony beat me to it  ;D

I think it is a steering wheel related problem.  Before lunch tried to sort out Mon and Tue GTL car/track combo, have identical problem there and confirmed now that PnG V2.1 has same problem so when I have time I Will have to sort it.  Until then can drive turn on lights and that's about it, can't turn ignition or restart engine just accelerate, brake steer and change gear.  ::)

I have re-aimed at the simbin lobby haven't caught sight of the server yet.

Matt's probably not sorted that yet. I'll have a look in a mo and post back if successful.

Can someone please see if we are visible in the Simbin lobby now?

All good Tony. Might hop on it later if there are a few of us around. GC is all CSLs and RSRs  ::)

Sorry, Matt got distracted. I have found I need to put gtr2server1.gtr-evolution.com in the lobby.txt or it would not
connect, I have updated the front page to suit.

Thxs GT - had the same problem but after installing the patch you posted all works fine.
But there's one thing I don't understand:
the original lobby delivered with P&G V3 (and also mentioned in the backup file) is:
gtr2server2.gtr-evolution.com ,
after using the Pilsbierbude lobby that one didn't work anymore.
After installing the patch the new lobby is:
gtr2server1.gtr-evolution.com
and it worked for me without re-registering.
So there are two SimBin lobbies/servers 1 and 2 ???

number 1 was what was in my original GTR2 install. I tried PG3 with no number and it wouldn't connect
connected straight away with my GTR2 lobby name and "1" added

I'm using 81.3.59.239  ::)

Just had some online praccy with Clive and GT. We set cuts to ON to test where/when you might expect to receive a cut and all seemed logical, no outlandish cut warnings. There seems to be just enough leeway allowed for kerb riding but don't take liberties or you will get penalised.

Matt, maybe leave cuts on for the race?

All sorted here now, chat the lot - GTL no chat.

Been onto our site, Clive and Kurt there.  Only time to check it all works OK.  Don't know if I'll have time to practice - busy

Not so sure about the tad confusing track (havent they heard of cones and armco to close off roads?!) but the Alfa is tremendous sideways fun through the faster corners. It felt like a tarmac stage rally car and sounds great on the throttle too 8)  Will try the escort later.

Matt doesn't know how to turn off cuts  ???
My testing found that if you went silly wide, like 4 wheels over the outside kerbs
at brewery bend (and maybe others) then you get a cut, which is appropriate
Many will have run here before in one mod or another, Nothing new if you have.

Flag rules, no flags = no cut detection

I'm sure that the debate on car physics will run and run but don't you just love the way that the marshals mooch about on the replays?

RE: MJ's query about car choices.

Depends on the series, for this one it's however many cars I can find in the available test time with similar laps times
Based on some theme.

I prefer to run cars that might have actually run together hysterically, but will run anything reasonable
to get matched cars. I like to have at least 3 cars, one will usually be a slightly slower but easier to drive option
Being new to V3 (as everyone is) and with limited test time, I settled on just 2 interesting cars which seem well matched
(at least in my hands) for this event. The Escort is slightly faster but harder to do a consistant lap time
I have limited it to the '71 escort because the '72 ones are quite a bit faster, and will leave the Alfa for dead.

I will do one more season finale for this series, after that when Tony's series all end, there will be a period of fun races
with different tracks/cars/themes until new series will start sometime early next year.
Any suggestions for actual track/car combos gratefully received.

Future series will probably be similar to ones we have done before, where there will be a wide choice of cars, and people
run whatever they like, possibly with some "Legzy Dollars" or handicap theme for one or another series.

Sounds like you need goldtop and his magic car comparison chart  :)

OOh yes please Mr Johnson  8)
I have tried using the Pils GTL hot lap charts, but they don't always work for PG

its all in here allegedly  :)

With the amount of drivers regularly racing on the GC public server, the "Statistics" tab now provides good data for matching up cars. Could take a lot of the leg work out of putting series together.

http://78.46.95.57:8081/status/GCPnGV3PUB

I've got a sneaky feeling the porsche 2.5T may fit in with the Alfa and escort  :-\ it seemed pretty evenly matched with them in a GC race this eve at anderstorp, though would need a quick test at Adelaide.

Don't you start as well!

We have enough changes to rules and reg on the fly as it is!

Good point, I'll get my coat, as you were gentlemen  :boat:

 Gotta love MJ, any opportunity to shove a Porch in somewhere :whistling:
Actually will be good for future events if one or more of the pigs could run with
other cars, it was almost impossible to run them in a mix in PG2 as they were either much
faster or much slower than anything else.

If you so desire, I will be very happy to test any track for Alfa laptimes in the future Matt. And if you want a fast drivers laptimes for the Alfas, I can probably persuade John W or our italian friend Manteos to lend a hand  ;D

Stig

A porch or a Porsche matt?  ;)

My reasons were genuine as matt said he normally runs 3 cars in this series and from what I saw in the gc server, the 2.5T was pretty even on pace with the alfas and assume therefore the escorts too. :angel:
For my own amusement and fact finding I will run the 3 together as a test at Adelaide. Even if we don't use it here, could be handy for future reference.

No matter for me if you need some laptimes with some cars. Unfortunately, it will be quite difficult to join your champ races, if you're going to race on Thursday. We have a VDA champ on alternate weeks on Thursday, so I will probably be able to attend your race on free (alternate) Thursdays.

However, if you need some tests, just ask :)

Cu :)

Err... Just noticed this is a free thursday  ;D

I'll give a shout to some VDA mates, if they want to join the race  ;)

This evening I'll try both the cars, than I'll tell you the results :)

Cu :)

P.S. It's just a stupid question, and take it as it is. Could be the chance of a delayed start for the race? Even 5/10 minutes could be crucial for me, cause I have a football match from 8 to 9 p.m (local time), and I've just the time to come back home, sit on my chair without having a shower and push on the throttle. I know... it would be a law "ad personam", a kind of Berlusconi's way of governing (tipical italian disease):D :D Do not insult me please  ;D
If it won't be possible, I will try to push as harder as i can with my Alfa 147 diesel before the race, with an 80% of probability to be on time for the race ;)

I don't mind starting a few minutes later if it means a bigger grid.
If anyone objects please shout up, otherwise I will start the race at least 5 mins later.

p.s
If anyone wants to try some cars at Melbourne and post times, that would be extremely helpful
Perhaps the different porka times and anything that is comparable? Thanks to MJ for the Alfa/Porka info.

Thank you Matt :)

I just tried Alfa 2000 GTAm and Escort at adelaide '88, and they're separeted by about 1/1.5 second in my test. I tested both the cars with race fuel in quali 2 session for 20 mins. these are the best lap:

1.47.4 with escort '71 (but i was very close to the 46 high)

1.48.5 with the Alfa 2000 GTAm ( I should be able to go down a bit (approx 0.5 sec.)

Cu :)

I'll throw in as well then, I've got 1:45.7 in the '71 Escort and 1:46.4 in the Alfa. I have done quite a bit of practice though ;D
I will try to give the Porsche a go tonight and let you know.

damn mate! Ok, I didn't know the track, but your laptimes are way too fast for me at the moment... I need a substantial after dinner training session....

Are your laptimes in quali or race fuel? Did you make it in online or offline practice? I'll need a gun to shot at your tyres to be able to follow you. Last question. Which GTA did you tried? The Moschous?

thank you in advance for the answer :)

Those were with 10 laps worth of fuel. The Escort time was on Timetrial, but the Alfa time was offline practice. I'd managed 1:46.0 with the Escort offline before I did the TT for the team. I've heard about the different grip levels and it's pretty apparent there is more grip on TT, but is there much of a difference between offline and online? I think there was a post on GC about it some time ago, but I haven't been able to find it to check.

I tried the '72 (white) Alfa but preferred the '71s as, even though they've got a bit less power, they don't go onto three wheels in every corner! The 1:46.4 was set with the red one.

It's probably worth saying that I've done more practice than usual, as PnG3 is a nice new toy to play with  :)

Oh dear John!

You have let the cat out of the bag.  They will all be practicing like mad now!  ::)

Ok, thanks John :) Probably the lack of knowledge of Adelaide track, scared me a bit when i saw the laptimes posted by you before. I guess that I should abandon the H-shifter, cause it's surely more immersive, but I would not be able to compete with you. I'll come back to the paddles shift and i will see if I can match your times.
The VDA mate Massimo Bonni (bimbo nos) should follow me for this race, and this evening I'll notice this race even to Daniele Scarpa, better known as VDA Lele on this forum. So, don't stop the training mate :)

We will try to make your life more difficult ;D

Hehe, sorry ;D That's a good thing! Means we get closer racing...

I'll probably take the Alfa, BTW

LOL

They might be closer to you!

Be sure of it Clive  ;D

I'm probably going to have to miss this one because of Mrs goldtop's work rota and my daddy duties. This is quite a regular thing these days and sod's law says it coincides with my race nights. Next week also looks doubtful atm  :(

I tried the 2.5 Porsche and it was 3 or 4 secs off my Escort pace which was 1:48.3 offline. The IROC was a couple of seconds too quick and the 2.8 moreso. The 914 was also a bit too quick for the Escort. Just shows the difficulties in balancing out these cars and the need for some kind of system.

crumbs i am miles off the posted laptimes so far in all 3 cars! Are you keeping inside the outer kerb at all corners?

1:52 Porsche 2.5T  1:52 Escort RS both with 25mins race fuel onboard, offline praccy. Cant remember what my Alfa times were the other night when i tried it. Seems the 911 2.5T is a match for these two cars though, maybe a tad slower. :-\
All 3 cars feel superb around here though  8)

Suits me, close racing gets a :thumbup1: from me!


I hope so :) Should be a good one.


Yes, and not taking the p.. at the chicane. All three cars get much faster once you get the hang of using the lift-off oversteer.

I've tried the 911 2.5 for 20 mins and got a 1:46.6, so not too far off the others. Took a bit of getting there though, doesn't seem as good in the corners but the brakes are tremendous. Good to know for future reference.

Seems that the P&g 3 renewed the spirit of the old good P&G team. There should be 5 VDA guys for this race ;)

Good stuff  8)

I saw 6 drivers racing Adelaide on the VDA practice server, so it looks as if we might have a nice big turnout for this next race   ;D

I'm at 1.48.100 in the 71' Alfa, and I seriously doubt, that I will get much faster than that.

Stig

I can add the 2.5 Porch if everyone wants it in, I just don;t want to be messing people around with only 2 days notice

n.b Race time altered pending any major whinges  ;D

Only if you want to run a third car type Matt, otherwise I'm pretty sure there's plenty of fun to be had with the Alfa and escort this time around. Would make the grid look even tastier though  ;)

Correct Stig  ;D Maybe we will be six, or at least 4... who knows!

Ok, now we have 3 VDA drivers on the 46.4 with the alfa GTA. Should be a great race  8)

I hope just to be on time, but John will have bread for his teeth even if I won't be able to join the race :)

Cu :)

I'm planning on joining this one, looks like we could have a good grid.

Best so far 1.48.4 in the Escort  :-\

Seems people will be having a good time with the Alfa and Escort. unless several people ask for it
the 2.5 Porka will appear in other events. Better to keep it as posted I think for this one.

Oh FWIW my testing was with the Orange Alfa
Everyone is sticking to the older '71 escort I assume?

"John will have bread for his teeth " ???? I really should learn more Italian  ;D

Ahhh, Ok I think I get it from Italian/English forums.... English version would be
"John will have something to sink his teeth into"
Glad we sorted that one out.
Reminds me of the "White Pig"  :laugh:

While practicing online Mike Lowry and I discovered what is probably a P&G V3 bug.

There seems to be a problem with the Alfa # 42 !

If two drivers try to use that car, it will cause a CTD for the one entering the game.
This problem apparently only concerns this particular car

My suggestion is, that NO ONE uses the Alfa #42 online.


Stig

Thanks for the Heads up Stig. I've modified the race announcement to warn others (not that anyone ever reads that   ::))

I'll also remove it from the server so that no-one will be able to select it.

just had a satisfying practise session and managed to take another 2 secs off my time in the Alfa. Getting some decent laps in and tweaking the setup makes all the difference. I didnt like this track initially but now really enjoy its flow, and the cars are just mega!  :)

Still dismayed that i could be 4-5 secs slower than the alien front runners...how!?  ??? i feel like im driving the wheels off the car!
1:51.3 for me now, 15 mins race fuel onboard.

How can you guys be that fast?

Stick around 1:54 in the Alfa running an offline open practice
with some other cars around and even the GT40 MkII or the 906 Longtail
were faster than 1:46...

So - probably will fight for last place again  ;D but P&G V3 still very much fun.

Don't think it is the outer curbs that are the problem as the track cutting will take care of anyone going very wide.

We do need a ruling on the inner curb though.  I expect that most of the fast times are being set with two wheels on the curb rather than two wheels on the grey bit.  At the Senna Chicane that's how I'm going through.  The Escort isn't as wide as you think and the track cut point is very generous.

I think that two wheels still on the curb would be most practical ruling.

I thought its supposed to always be two wheels on the black stuff, not on a kerb as that means the whole width of your car is cutting the apex. Though you could be forgiven for thinking that's not the case anymore if you watch the amount of run off they let them use in f1 lately  ::)
To me if peeps are keeping right hand side of t1 kerbs, that's cutting! Likewise the fast right hander onto the back straight, as I expect both corners are worth a second each if your allowed to do that.

I don't believe in making rules for every track's corners. The SROUK rules have stuff about this already
read it if there's any doubt.. https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3349.msg65152#msg65152

I think putting a wheel up a kerb is real world stuff, so is fine by me. Driving 4 wheels inside a kerb, painted or solid
is cheating. This track has cuts on which will get you if you are very naughty. Maybe I'm just honest
but I don't remember being able to cut inside much without the car being thrown around horribly.

If anyone wants to go through the replay afterwards and hand out tickets they can, but I won't be.

I watched the UKGTR rules about track cuts, and it's true that I've done my 46.4 with 2 wheels on the kerb, and 2 outside the track at the right hand of the initial chicane. I would post an image of my line after lunch, so you could possibly explain me if you consider it a cut or not.
However, without "cutting" the chicane there's a difference in terms of lap time of about 0.4/o.5 seconds at most, and all of us are respecting the rule in the rest of the track, without going wide at any other corner. There's a sensible difference in terms of exit speed doing the right hand of the chicane with 2 wheels off the curb, and we always used the rule of putting at least 2 tyres on the kerb (that we consider like track surface) in every Italian champ I raced in my life.
I would just be sure to avoid penalty for any wrong behaviour. Now I've to go, but I will post an image later and you'll kindly give me an answer about that matter :)

Cu :)

I wouldnt worry about it Manteos, no point in us getting anal about it when racing these classic cars that like to move about a bit. What you describe at T1 chicane is a cut in my mind as there are no wheels on the tarmac (ie the actual race track) but doubt anyone is going to get too upset if its an open rule this time.

Why not just let the game rule ?

If you cut the corners too deep, you'll get a stop and go penalty. I know from experience, that it works in the first chikane and in the fast right hander before the long straight.
And I believe those two turns are the only ones, where you can actually benifit from cutting.

Stig

My "opinion" FWIW is two wheels on the track at all times, anything else is not cricket (or volleyball for that matter)
If people regularly drive through the 1st chicane here with all 4 wheels off the track they should obtain some birch
twigs and get the their wife/friend/dog (delete as appropriate) to beat them severely  :wetfish:

So, which one is allowed?

1) (http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4786/taglio1g.jpg)

2) (http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/3831/taglio2.jpg)

In Italy they're both legal, so I'm just asking what we should do for this evening, and I would like that the admins would be clear on what we should do. Then I expect everyone will have a clearer view about it :) That kind of rules had to be clarified in advance. I don't want to be "fined" by some policeman after the race ;)

Thank you.

Legal?  Those pics Sum up how the Italians drive in Italy!  :laugh:
 
Pic1 is totally illegal, no attempt to stay on the race track.
Pic2 I would also say is illegal as your supposed to keep two wheels inside the kerbs, ie on the tarmac, in any known real world race series. But its not my rule to make, Matt and Tony are our Max and Bernie...not sure which of the two prefers the role playing whip stuff though  :o

No one will be whipped, but I would say same as MJ both are illegal.
2 is almost legal, but would not be considered fair here.

The kerb is not counted as part of the track surface here.
Keep 2 wheels on the black stuff at all times is the request.

If you are chasing someone who regularly jumps the kerbs as per the pics, then you can either report them, but nothing will  likely
happen, you can do the same, in which case both of you are being naughty, you can appeal to their sense of fair play
by flashing lights waving your arms and shouting abuse at them (just like in Italy  ;)  ) This option only works if you are in the same room though....  ;D

This is an "honour" rule, it is not considered "sporting" here to not keep 2 wheels on the black stuff at all times
if you spin/make an error that's something else, we are talking about regularly and deliberately jumping the kerbs. Completely
being astride the kerbs will be tolerated as long as 2 wheels are on the race track surface for at least most of the time.
if you bounce as you go over them, then that's not your problem.

In the heat of the race people will do whatever they can, but please try to not just ignore the kerbs. The main thing here
is to have fun, we just ask that you try to follow the SROUK rules as much as you can.
Thanks
Matt. ;)

Sorry guys, but I can't agree with you on the 2nd picture. 2 tyres are on the white line in the 2nd picture. The white line is painted tarmac, and even if painted..... that is tarmac.

If you don't consider tarmac the white line, I don't know what to say.... but I just don't agree with your rule in that case. In every official race, F1 or Gt, I never heard about the white line is not considered tarmac. If I totallt accept your point of view about the first picture, I totally disagree about the 2nd one.

Said that, my G25 is totally died, and I won't be able to race today. When I'll be able to buy another wheel, we will see on track again... 2 weeks, 3 weeks, 1 month, 1 year... who knows.

However some of the VDA guys will surely join the race this evening. I will notice them your rule in any case. The important thing is that anyone will respect the same rule, but I'm even more sure that the lap times difference, won't be filled only avoiding the chicane cuts IMO  ::).

Said that, have a good race. I will just jump into your server to watch the show, if I'll be on time.

Cu... soon  ???

The white line is fine, the pic looks like the car has two wheels off track, and two wheels on top of the kerb.
I think a lot of people will be doing something similar to pic 2, don't worry about it, just race and try not to take liberties.

I have a G27 at my "other residence" I would fax it you, but it's too big  ::)

Don't you have an old wheel you can use? Be a real shame if you have to miss this one.

 

Sorry to hear about your wheel problem manteos  :( bad luck.

Ah, so the wheels are on the white line in pic2. That would take senna like accuracy for lap after lap  ;)  but yes is legal. The pic makes it look like both left wheels are sat on the kerb.
Even if you kept all 4 wheels on the tarmac I doubt many of could keep up with you anyway!
I wonder if John has kept it trackside for his demon times.

Thanks for the comprehension Mark  :).

The example of pic 2, was just a bit extreme, and I was considering that picture like the very limit of the track. However I'm just talking about it with Daniele, and he will notice that to all the other VDA guys. I absolutely want them to respect your rule, no matters about it  ;)

Cu later :)

Well I thought it was on the replay I sent to the team, as it looked OK from inside the car but Clive has since pointed out that it might have been a bit naughty ;)
I think we're in danger of generating bad feeling with this cutting business though. I shall be trying my hardest to keep it inside the white line at all times and if someone straight-lines the chicane and passes me then so be it, I won't let it get to me. If I accidentally do it myself then I'll back off for a bit to not take an advantage. Simples :)

Holy words mate :)

Heh, I wouldn't read too much into any bad feeling. Maybe if one of us was all over the back of someone but they pulled an advantage every lap by cutting, then maybe so.
You guys will be so far up the road we wouldn't notice anyway!  :laugh:

It's a gentlemens agreement at the end of the day  :angel:

Oops! Suspension damage at the first corner of the first lap then hit the tyres going onto the straight. Oh well. Hope you had fun :)

Same here, a tiny little bump when I hit to spinning cars on lap 1 caused so much damage, that I lost control in the fast right hander. Perhaps the P&G V3 is a more 'touchy' than V2 ?

Stig

I just think these cars are stupidly fragile, dare not touch anything for fear of killing engine. I tapped a wall, front on at about 20mph after spinning at the last bend and killed the car, hardly realistic. Pointless. Another evening of P&G disappointment.

I had no problem with damage and I hit a couple of things, including Alex, and took no serious damage
Maybe it is more "realistic" Perhaps we can reduce the damage level if it proves to be a real issue

Replay posted, but results will take a while because the LM2 doesn't seem to know abouit PG3 cars yet

Radiator damage in the front of the escort perhaps?  The new cars aren't that fragile, someone hit me at about 20-30mph and we were both able to continue, despite spinning around from the impact. You were unlucky it seems. They aren't dodgem cars like gtl  ;)

Had a good race though lacking action. Aforementioned tap cost me about 15 secs and dropped me near the back. Fought my way back up through the field without much challenge and then had a lonely race to the flag in 6th with a big gap in front and behind. Fairly pleased with 6th considering the speed up front. :)

Congrats to the fast Italians and all that finished.

Dare you to drive your real car head on into a solid wall.

I'm quite pleased that the cars no longer have the resiliance of a battle tank.  Makes it important not to hit things.

We probably had three races tonight.

The Italian Race (Curbs are track)

The English Race, Won by Geoffers (Most laps used the tarmac)

The Ultra English Race Won by MJ (At least one tyre always firmly planted on the tarmac with its complete tread)

I think that Manteos was in the English Race until he met a wall (at more than 20 mph).

Hope we can have just one race at Silverstone but I don't mind if John were to crash as in tonight's effort!  ;D

Check out the replay, I think it's about 660 in. Much less than 20mph but my demise may have been due to two almost simultaneous contacts , first with Alex, second with wall. But engine health went from 96% to 0%, that can't be right.

Actually I think it was divine intervention as you were in the wrong car....
the event details and a couple of my posts do say '71 only escort  :o
The '72 ones are more powerful and lighter.

Happy that I was able to finish without more serious damages  ;D

Still a lot of fun to drive in P&G V3, although I was far slower than competition  :(
I personally think P&G V3 generally (or I for myself as "amateur" of "casual" driver)
needs more time for practicing but is more realistic and sensitive than the V2.1

Only one difficult moment during race: when suddenly my local sounds were lost
I lost control and had a turner when I was trying to reactivate sounds and didn't
see the pack of the 3 leading Alfa's coming from behind - sorry for that.
Fortunately there were no consequences for the "Italian League"  :o

Congratulation to John for winning the championship and to the winner/podium of
this race. Great turnout. Thanks to UKGTL/UKGTR for organizing - as always  ;)

Oh carp. And I'm the first to complain about drivers not reading the announcements  ::)

Big congrats to JohnW winning the Aussie League adventures, along with Clive and SpecialK on the championship podium, well done gents.  :thumbup1:
And big thanks to Matt and Tony for organising and running these P&G leagues.  :)

Whats next? IROC series?  ;)  ;D

EuroGT 70's?  8)  though id recommend it ran alongside a 'comfy' sofa slower car series so all tastes and performances are catered for.  :)

Yeh, the cars seem to want a lot more tweeking of the set up than in v2.1. They are quite easy to drive with the default setup (although they lock the brakes easy) but there seems to be a lot of time to be found with adjustment. The Escort was one of the first cars I tried in v3 so I had a bit of a setup for it, even so I could only initially do 1.50-1.51s with it to start with. It still doesn't corner as fast as the Italian's Alfas, tends to understeer mid-corner, so still more time to be found I think.

It was good fun though, just wish we could have been a bit closer to the Alfas at the front.

Congrats to the VDA guys, well driven. :clap: :clap: :notworthy:

Also congrats to John on the League win.  :clap:

I think John is untouchable, but there will be one more race when I get a few mins (hours) to sort it
It will probably be a finale at Melbourne, with cars that are fast enough to use it properly, I was thinking
Capri/BMW maybe a porka as well if one of them does similar times. (I have not tried any porkas myself yet)

Any times would be greatly appreciated. The times for this event were many seconds faster than my test times
where I was A: not as quick as the Italians.. B: I was driving fully round the kerbs
This is I think why the race length was a bit short. I had not expected to be that much off the actual race pace
so other people times are a great help.

I enjoyed last night, but it was a bit frustrating, as I forgot that I had not configured PG3 on the system I was using
and coudn't find my network key, so 2 reinstalls later I found the key, then had to re register, then install the
track..... joined with less than a min of qual left, so started with default setup and hoped for the best
the brakes were way too far forward and i kept going straight on.. tried to change while driving and rammed Alex
as I had hit the change view key..... argghhhhh. Still good fun to slide the escort around.
Grats to all that fninished, street tracks with hard walls are always painfull if  you go off.

After yesterday's race I had to dust off my old F430 Thrustmaster. At least I would be able to race again, even if it won't be so fun.

it's a pity my retire yesterday, cause I was very close to Geoffers, and it would have surely been a great duel til the end. It was funny til it lasted. Than I hit the wall of the fast right corner before the long straight, and the damage were pretty realistic in that case ;D.

I would like to tell something just about the damage. The GTLW team, and Aris in particular worked a lot on this issue. I strongly agree with a couple of previous post with MJ and Clive, when they challenge you to go into a wall at 30 km/h. I would just like to remember that the EURO NCAP crash tests are done at 50 km/h (31 mph), and it's worth to take a look of what remains in the front part of the car, to understand what happens when you crash into a concrete wall at such "lower" speed. I can say that is pointless to say the opposite. Maybe is GTL that is "hardly realistic" about this aspect. To brake a radiator of a 70's car, just like that of a modern one, even 30 km/h are enough IMO. Same thing is for the suspentions. Sometimes, if you look at the XD motec, you'll notice that your suspentions are marked with 95 seconds damage, but with the P&G 3, it happened to me more than 1 time in the last 2 years of testing, you can simply go on if you didn't hit the wall or cars near you abruptly. Maybe you'll end up with the steering wheel slightly wrong centered, and the behaviour of the car won't be the same of an undamaged car, but you will waste a lot of time less comparing to a pit stop to repair your car.
When I started the phyisics beta-testing, I immediately noticed the difference between v2 and v3. As I said in an other topic here, the v3, is more user friendly to drive in every car, compared to the v2 (easy to drive... hard to master). At the opposite, the "neutral" default setup, are meant to be used by everyone, and their neutrality (intended as you will not esperience no major understeer/oversteer) helps a lot to stay on track without fighting too much with the steering wheel. The opposite side of the neutrality, is that for every Italian beta-tester, you need to do an harder setup, to obtain the best performance in almost all cars. Your car will corner easily with harder rear springs, and harder rear roll-bars, and you can feel almost immediately the difference about a "neutral" setup, and an harder one. Differential gear setting is really important to have a better traction, and you will have to use the throttle properly with an harder setup, or your car will spin easily cause of the power oversteer, if you don't partialize the throttle in acceleration especially if you have your wheels turned.

I can tell you that if you want to drift, P&G 3 is perfect, but you will waste a lot of time, cause drifting is not meant to be used to obtain a good laptime performance. Aris worked a lot even on this aspect. In the v2, in certain cars, the wrong side of the physics IMO, was that you could go faster when you were drifting, and it was totally a nonsense. Drift driving is strongly discouraged by my side, cause you will waste a lot of time. Dirft races are meant for japanese, but 70's races were not drift races. You need a clean driving to obtain the max performance of all the cars, and you'll need some time to spare to change your mind about the driving style of the v3, that is totally different by the 2.

Talking bout my VDA mates, I'm a bit disappointed about their lack of commitment to stay with 2 wheels on the tarmac despite my repeated warnings on the forum and in TS during the race. The thing that makes me even more "angry" is the fact that they didn't need to do it, watching their great laptimes, cause it would have made no difference at all in terms of result. So, if you want to punish them, I won't make any complain about this. I can just tell that is difficult for everybody to change their minds, but they have struggled very little to do their homework just a little better.

Last thing is that all the VDA drivers that you met yesterday on track were P&G 3 physics beta-tester by more than 2 years, so I guess it's totally natural that we are a bit advantaged compared to you. We have a lot of setup, and a lot of kilometers done with all the car pack. Not considering that we've done 2 ROTW championship with the v3, that was an only italian beta-testing championship. You know how much we train for every race, so you can just figure how many hours we spent with this great sim.

For the next race, I can tell you that BMW 24v and Capris 3100 are really close in terms of performance in almost all tracks, with a slightly advantage for the BMW, usually not more than 1 seconds depending on the tracks. In certain track (especially that with short straights), Capri 3100 could be even slightly faster than BMW, but it's a perfect combo, that we tested one year ago at the ROTW championship. They're very well matched.

Cu :)

Unofficial LapChart (http://www.justanotherpage.nl/Srou/PnG/GTR2_adelaide88_2012_11_15_20_48/)


Eventful race. After a good start was caught out by the slippy conditions. Are cold tyres modelled better in PnG3? Sorry for abrupt braking Mark, saw you spinning at the end of first lap but no brake test or other nasty stuff intended.
Then WT zoomed by in his underweighted Cosworth. Tries to apply The Undercut but immediately stamped the brakes when I saw WT sliding. To my reckoning touch could not have been a race-ending one, Matt hit me a lot harder  :D
Finally had some Italian piloti divebombing past me at quite some speed. :o

Congrats to the Scuderia Italia.

ps. great to see you back McLowry after the cold shower in last race.

Shame I had to miss this, sounds like an eventful evening was had by all  :)

I hope to be on the GC server in some of the slower cars later if anyone fancies joining. The only night this week (and probably next) that I'll be able to race  :(

Thanks guys, it's been lot of fun :)
:clap: to Matt for the good car & track choices

Nice to have a race in hand, the same can't be said about next week though. Looking at the points distribution I was thinking that if I finish 1st and Clive 2nd then I've got it, but if we have another Italian invasion and we finish off of the podium then Clive is in with a shout of the title even if he finishes behind me... better get practising ;D


Uh oh, I can see more controversy - there's a fast chicane at Melbourne :o


I noticed that as well, I had to stiffen it right up to get it handling reasonably, and even then it wasn't quite as 'tail-happy' as I'd have liked. Good to know I was on the right track with the setup though. Got any other tips for us non beta-testers? ;D

Grats to the VDA guys though - very fast :thumbup1:

Think you are safe there John.

I recall Manteos saying that they have their VDA race on alternate weeks so next week will be on tarmac.  ;D   (mostly)

Yes Clive. we have a cutting race at Monza. You know that for the Italians "Prima variante" and "Variante della loggia" are just straights... we don't brake at all in that chicanes ;)

I think that I'm not the right guy to suggest things about driving to you. You have the right sensibility to understand which kind of driving you need with the cars of P&G 3. It's just a matter of time John, and you'll be easily on our pace. I'm sure of it. I was just thinking to share all my settings folder, but they're collected very badly into my track settings folder. If you want, the thing I could do is to collect some setup by the VDA guys and a Ron3 driver like Gianluca Gilli (aka il pinguo), that is a great italian historic P&G beta-tester since the v1. Before every race, I will post all the available set of setup that I'll manage to collect for the selected cars you're going to use in the subsequent race.

When I'll speak to him, I'll ask him this favor. I'm going to send him a PM on our forum, and you'll be noticed directly on Silverston thread when I'll be able to collect them.

Cu :)

Thanks for the car tips Matteo, it really is a big help when any quick drivers post times and advice.  8)

I think Adelade street has chicanes and kerbs in corners that just ask for some cutting, I found myself
2 wheeling the 1st chicane several times and occasionally worse. <shrug> people will drive the track
as best as they can, this is life. No problem for me in this race. John may be right about Melbourne
there are some opportunities there, I wil have a think about decent track to off, but I still think
Melbourne with some fast cars will be a good race.

I don't think that John has much to learn really, since he was lapping in the 1:45s when using the curbs as part of the track.  ::)

My best in that mode was 1:47.0 but on race day I started to relearn the track whilst trying to keep at least part of the tyre on the tarmac.

I found that difficult and was on the point of saying bugger it when Geoffers did a low 1:47 and had wheels on the tarmac.  So I thought I had better continue trying.

Geoffers was quick in the race and there was no way that I could match his speed.  Manteos believes that the race outcome would have been the same had the VDA drivers stuck to our rules but I'm not convinced.  I know that he was not using his usual wheel and that would make quite a difference but both he and John came unstuck at the fast righthander onto the main straight.  I don't think that they would have if they had not been trying to keep to the track.  It made that corner very awkward.

Thanks Matteo, that would be much appreciated :thumbup1: