SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL Season 17 - Inter-League race - Zandvoort

This is the second Interleague race of our season 17.  Our guests are the Average Drivers Club, who scored a comprehensive win over us last time at Mosport, sweeping the podium in a race won by Stuart Bartosiak for ADC.  We've added a few ADC drivers to our roster since then, and with former secretary Paul Skingley having driven for the opposition last time the race is sure to be keenly contested.  Each league is to field nine cars, and there are no chassis handicaps, drivers will be racing to complete the distance and score points for their team.  Let's have a cordial UKGPL welcome for our guests from ADC!

Please be in Igor UKGPL chatroom passworded 'Savage' by 20:55GMT, (You will need to set up a channel called #ukgpl if you haven't already done so)
Vroc and Race passwords: see above (#post_event_password)

Server ADC Igor
IP address  88.81.37.9

Race date = 15-03-2009
Track = Zandvoort
Variant = 66F1
Damage Model = PRO
Qually time = 35 minutes.
Race length = 45 laps (complete 41 laps to score points as a finisher)

Chassis assignments: Hristo's final list
BT19 John
one of the BT11 versions, driver to choose Clive
one BRM, driver to choose between P261 and P83 Jethro
Cooper Glyn
one Eagle, driver to choose between T1F and T1G Iestyn
one Ferrari, driver to choose between 246 and 312 Doni
Honda Will
one Lotus, driver to choose between 43 and either of the 33 versions Lorenzo
McLaren Hristo

If you'd like to represent UKGPL in this race please post on the thread and advise what chassis you'd prefer.  Driver lists and points scored can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=209&theme=6)

As I am an ADC member too it's a though choice but I'd like to race in a BT19 or whatever captain decide.
Ciao

Just put me up as a reserve unless you really want me to race in this race.

Clive has asked me to do the chassis assignments myself as he's unavailable atm, so when I come up with provisional line up I'll post it here.

Unless you'd like me to be slow here and can provide a setup for probably the Eagle T1G, I may have to give it a miss, wasn't expecting us to be doing 66s in interleague.

I'm very sorry, I have to withdraw from this event, I had forgotten of another committment on the same date.  :(

Next one I hope

Jethro, we've been doing 66s in interleague last season as well, there's no change. You're as fast in 66s anyway, so I wouldn't like you to miss it, so let me know for sure.
Fulvio, sorry to hear.
Could someone provide a list of all ppl who signed up for participation in interleague races? Not everyone has made a post in the subscription thread and I wouldn't like to revert to how things were done last season and ask for ppl to sign up for this race. I suppose we have a team of regulars and reserves already.

I think it's on the Championship standing page on the first post.
I'm signed as reserve i.e.

On the inter league championship page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=209&theme=6) all the drivers who compete are listed as well as those drivers who register.  That means all the opponents are listed as well as UKGPL drivers. 

However, it is easy to identify the UKGPL drivers because they will either have (FT) for Full Time or (R1) for 1st reserve after their names. We have 5 drivers registered as FT (intend to do >75% of the races) and 7 drivers who expect to be available for <75% of the races so they are down as reserves.  If you are not sure if you have registered please look at the championship table.  If you do intend to race but haven't registered (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5870), please do so.  It is much more difficult to plan if drivers just post an intention to race rather than register.  It can be very hard to find a specific post on these forums sometimes.

Hristo, you can use the Championship Table to identify who has registered and click on the names to send them a PM to discuss tactics rather than use the public forums.

Thanks a lot, Phil, that should be more than enough. I'll post a provisional chassis allocation tomorrow after the D1 race.

To give an example last season in a 66 race at Zandvoort, I went with the default setup in the BRM 2l I believe and did a 1:29 IIRC, about 3 seconds off the pace. If you really believe I'm as fast I'll go for it.

Considering how bad default setups usually are, yes.  :) Until Clive returns you have to obey, muhaha!  >:(

In that case, I submit to your ever-better knowledge of my driving skills. Pick me a chassis that suits my ability that I can push hard with a good setup and I'll be happy. I'll even try and make the finish this time! :D

Ok, provisional chassis allocation is as follows:

John Roberts....................BT19
"Evil" Clive.......................BT11 BRM
Jethro Walters..................BRM (chose between P261 and P83 versions)
Will Tway........................Cooper
Iestyn Davis....................Eagle (chose between T1F and T1G versions)
Bernie "Alonso" Darwin.......Ferrari (chose between 246 and 312 versions)
Napo "Bomb" Bonaparte......Honda
Lorenzo Galluzi..................Lotus (chose between 43 and either of the 33 versions)
Hristo Itchov....................McLaren

If someone wants to switch places or can't make the race, let me know. The current reserves are: gingsters sponsored and Doni Yourth. People presented with car choices are free to decide on their own, but let us know when you do.

For sure, Mike Beattie is driving for the ADC.

I'm happy to standby in reserve if someone can't make it.  I've practiced with in M2 and P83.  I have no particular car choice, tho.

Doni

Yes Hristo,

As I pointed out in my post on the Championship post, I'm not available to UKGPL for this race, but happy to run in any of the other 66 mod events

For you information here is the ADC Team

Brabham BT 19...Maarten
Brabham BT 11...Kelly
Lotus 33 BRM.....Fletch
BRM P261...........Malcolm
Honda.................Jim
Ferrari.................Jeronen
McLaren...............Burt
Cooper................Mike
Eagle...................Tom

Reserves..............Robert & Craig

Ah, ok, Mike, I forgot about that. And thanks Doni.

I have one worry though - why are we running some of the 3liter cars mixed with the 2liter? I sense trouble coming from that, especially at a track like zandy. From my recent experience the 2liter cars could brake MUCH later for T1 and carry more speed through the corners, especially the long ones, but at the same time the 3liter would rapidly close up on any 2liter on the straights. The start would be particularly dangerous.

Hristo

The ADC normally runs a "No passing untul after T1" rule.  If you want to use that, it's not a problem for us, so long as everybody understands and complies


Cheers

Mike

It's not that I have a problem with passing, but since people aim to drive their cars on the limit and that limits differs substantially between 2 and 3 liters, it leads to big differences in speed at various locations on the track. People would have to not only consciously ease off but also have knowledge of what those cars around them are capable of and that's difficult when you're surrounded by such mixed field. We'll see, I hope it wouldn't be as bad as I see it in my mind, but it's just what I've experienced in the past when we did it.

Jethro,

Any chance you wanna trade the p261 for the coop?

If not, no worries. I'll start working on a setup this week.

Cheers,

Will

I won't be able to tell you until Tuesday evening, so keep your fingers crossed. I cannot really push the Cooper hard though.

I'll stick with the Coop. Never tried it before so I look forward to something different.

Thanks anyway.

Will

What a silly rule .. I for one won't be waiting till after turn one before I think about overtaking , but if it happens and UKGPL agree to the rule then I won't be racing .

john

It's going to happen at T1 anyway because of the differential between engines and braking - the 3l cars will pull away at the start, but the 2l ones will claw it back under braking.

The trouble with a rule like that is when somebody gets bogged down off the line, everybody has to stay behind them?

The back of the grid won't see the bogged down car and the field just gets more compressed.

I'll happily stand in for John Roberts who, apparently, has never caused, let alone been involved, in a T1, L1 shunt.

Edit: Some time later...

The 'T1 Rule' of the ADC is designed to let everyone at least get away from the grid and make the first corner without fear of being run over by a hotshot who's gotten a rather better-than-average start or for some bloke who's got a poor one.  It's been in vogue for quite some time and was brought in as a result of far too many T1 shunts in the league.  I've run under it for years and have no problem with it.  That's not to say that there aren't any T1 fiascos.  There are but rather rare.  And this in a league that allows unlimited shift-R's.

Need I mention much more beyond Montreal 1982?

Just to clarify the "rules" for the inter league races, they are simply based on the 2008 GPL World Champs rules where the teams had to field a selection of chassis.  Because all the leagues run different rules the detail for each race is to be determined by the team captains.  So the "no passing until after T1" should only to be applied at the discretion of both captains.  The rule is obviously intended to reduce the possibility of Lap 1 T 1 pile ups but one would hope that the quality of the entry list should ensure this doesn't happen.  It is up to the team captains to decide if it is really necessary to apply this rule.

Do you have a problem with my driving or are you just being a smart arse ?

If you can tell me when I've caused a t1 l1 shunt in this league then I'll say sorry .

I said that I would not race if we were going to use that rule , not that I wasn't racing .

john

I fail to see your point, why are you saying this? What is it related to? I know John for years but I don't know you, so apart from sounding weird you're not getting anywhere with that.

If you're referring to the "no passing until T1 rule" I don't agree with it at all. We are meant to be racing, not parading. To me that rule looks like being created for people who can't keep their cars under control or can't race. The reason for problems arising from mixing 2 and 3 liter cars has nothing to do with overtaking after all, but I think enough has been said on the topic. I don't expect anyone to follow a no passing rule but rather do their best as to anticipate the differences in cars and know their own and other people's limitations as much as possible. Penalty rules will take care of the rest, hopefully. But I honestly hope we won't mix 2 and 3 liters ever again, I dare say it before the race and even if we get away with incidents that won't change my opinion, we shouldn't be waiting for things to happen before we react.

Some leagues have T1 rules and we have discussed them for the Interleague races as recently as the GPFun race at Monza last season.  However for many drivers the start is an integral part of the enjoyment of the race.  An alternative is a red flag rule where a pro race is restarted after an accident that involves too many cars.  The UKGPL experience has been that the pro races have started well enough, except on occasions when there has been a disco at T1, which would only be covered by a red flag and restart.

Few if any leagues split 2l and 3l chassis and we raced a mixture of 2l and 3l chassis in the Interleagues last season without incident.  While there were problems with the mixture in the first UKGPL season with the 66s there were a number of contributory factors:

- lack of experience with the mod
- slower and less experienced drivers in the 3l cars
- intermediate level

Also, the system used by UKGPL had some drivers with the slowest 2l chassis while the Interleague system mixes only the faster 2l chassis, as chosen by the drivers, with the 3l cars.

Though Doni hasn't been with UKGPL long, he might be keen to race against his other league ADC.  If we're having a forthright exchange of opinions, Alonso might be a double champion, but you've a cat's chance of prising him out of Clubmans for this one when he finds they clash.  Also, if Jethro reckons the P83 is faster off the line than the P261, you'd best put him in the Ferrari and add Doni in the BRM.  And don't hit each other before the race starts.  

I have no experience with the P83, but that would be my general opinion. I'll try both cars tomorrow and see what happens.

When in Rome.....
_________________________________________

- lack of experience with the mod
- slower and less experienced drivers in the 3l cars
- intermediate level

That pretty much sums me up.  :'(

Doni, you can take the Coop. I'll be a reserve.

GLA

ditto

Thanks, Dave. I didn't mean to be harsh to Doni, but I find it odd and out of place when he made that remark to jr.

As I said earlier, it is a provisional chassis allocation. For one I didn't think about bernie having a clubmans race, so bernie, let me know if you'd rather do that instead of interleague. As for Jethro, he was one of few who let me know what chassis they'd prefer for this one, so that's why I put him in that BRM. So let me know your opinions, people, if any.

Nonsense, Will.  Please do take the start if you can.  I'm adamant to remain as a stand-by, reserve driver ONLY if one or more of the nominated crew cannot take the start.  Thanks for the offer, tho.  Very kind of you.

I'm at some odds at going up my mates at the ADC.  Part of me wants to see them do well while the other part wants my new GPL mainline club emege victorious.  It's a Catch 22 situation.  If I do get a chance to drive, I'll do my best for the UKGPL. 

Hristo:  No offence taken.  I was merely emphasizing that the T1 rule does have its merits.  John Roberts thinks otherwise and has evidently taken issue with a simple, off-the-cuff statement.  Sorry, John.

And yes, I'm very wierd.  :)

Looks like I dropped a boo boo !

To be honest there are that many UKGPL leagues , divisions and sub divisions these days that I find it difficult to keep track of whats what ,who'se doing what to who and where .

One of the thoughts I had was that S17 runs into the summer months , which means that if ever we do get a summer then the chances are I wont be around that much to race due to my summer activities which are still at the planning stage and are all very weather dependant

So with this in mind my thoughts were that I could have the occasional  pop at the Interleague stuff and thus duly signed on. But as you say,  I plum forgot  these races clash with the CC which I am FT in

Another thing I didnt spot is we are talking Pro rules And a minimum distance to qualify as a finisher,   they are very long races and I dont know if I would be capable of doing so many laps without the assistance of a pause button .

That said,  I dont fancy Albi either,  and we have to drop 2 races in CC so I would  be up for this race anyway but dependant on the following :-

1.  I can't find a comfy set up for the fezzer , tried the 312 but  found it very nervous at Zandy (using the one and only set up I have ) not tried the dino engined car yet but will give that one a go !

2. As I live in the loft when "on line"  the weather needs to be reasonably mild for me to sit behind the wheel for so long without running the risk of catching pnuemonia (ive tried a survival suit and moon boots but it sort of hampers things a bit )

After all that I'm still undecided which race I should do , very much open to suggestions but please keep them clean  ;)


   

How has the weirdness manifested itself in the past?   Why daub John a poor starter, when he isn't? 

The comic analogy applied isn't valid either, it's not about having split loyalties?  I like this, it seems very apt for 66-69 F1- 'Death resists us manfully, but we defeat it at the end.'

 

Bernie, if nothing else I could provide you with a decent setup to start with, but you'd probably have to tweak it further to fit your own style. As for the rest, it's all up to you, but it'd be better if you make up your mind until tomorrow so we can finalize the chassis allocation and let our team have enough time to practice with their given car.

P.S. I probably have your e-mail from the breasts announcements so I'll send the setup to that.

Watch out Bernie...a decent setup from H will surely send you off roading over the hills. :o  :laugh:

A decent gearbox would be a start , I can develop it from there , prob is have little or no experience of 66 chassis set up though I do love to drivin em  ::)

3 questions. :)

1) Anybody got a setups bag I can drop into my profile, like what I've found for 65s and 67s?
2) Anybody got a setup for both the P83 and the P261? Am wrestling with both cars, and can't make my mind up. If I go significantly faster with one, I'll take that.
3) How the f**k do you drive this P83 effectively? I'm miles off the pace, 1:31 at the moment is my best, with a setup Geoff Heard kindly sent my way, and adjusted so it doesn't spin me at every corner. I can get that down to a 1:30 or maybe a high 1:29, but I cannot go as quick with this thing as I'd like. The P261 feels weird, I try and drive it like the 65 version, but it doesn't seem quick enough!

Haven't driven either of the BRMs, mostly been handicapped in the Lotus when we were doing 2 liters, but when you say it's that weird it reminds me of how the 67 BRM is, so perhaps you could try the trick that Michiel Pompert came up with for that - weird differential. Try one of those and see how it is - 85/45/5, 85/60/5, 85/60/6. Also if (probably so) it has a lot more weight on its rear, try a very soft front spring and stiff rear plus stiff rear bump/rebound (i.e. 4/4). Stiffer rear than front ARB also works in general for those pigs (i.e. I tend to run mostly 263 front 280 rear, metric units). Also I've noticed a minimum amount of rear toe tends to help alot in both 66 and 65, i.e. 0.06 to 0.2 (metric) and a bit of negative front (-0.1 to -0.3). Another trick would be raising the rear ride height somewhat to shift the weight distribution forward. Hope that helps.

DRAT!  I was going to post the message below but cannot see how to upload a zip file for Turkey Machine.  Some assistance, if you please.

"Here, TM.  Try this P83 setup on for size.  I used it at the 1st ADC Inter-League trial of only 14 laps or so at Zandvoort.  In the race, I scored a low 29 with it starting with full race fuel, 45 laps, iirc.  The base setup plus an iteration with suffix, 'a', is included in the zip."

We can't attach files or even post our own topics. Perhaps a moderator could be talked to and provide us with a sub-forum with such capabilities?

Ah...  I see, Hristo.  Well, that's most unfortunate, then.  Too bad.

Failing the ability to upload a setup, I've created an abridged html export of the P83 setup I used for the ADC trial.  Fueled to 25 USG it shows.  As mentioned above, I did get down to the low 29's in-race in hot pursuit of Dave Fletcher, ADC Supremo, but wasn't so close as to be picking up a slipstream tow from him so the potential is genuine.  Hope this helps out, TM.

Car Setup: p83_znd_29p95ar
Track: Zandvoort
Steering Ratio  10:1 
Start Line Weight  1748 lb. 
Front Brake Bias  56% 
Ramp Angles  60/60 
Clutches  3 

Per Wheel Setups  Wheel  Tire Pressure  Wheel Rate  Bump  Rebound  Camber  Bump Rubber 
Left Front  20 psi  100 lbs/in.  1  2  -1.20 deg  0.50 in. 
Right Front  20 psi  100 lbs/in.  1  2  -1.20 deg  0.50 in. 
Left Rear  21 psi  180 lbs/in.  2  3  -1.10 deg  0.50 in. 
Right Rear  21 psi  180 lbs/in.  2  3  -1.10 deg  0.50 in. 

Per Axle Setups  Axle  Toe  Anti-Roll Bar Rate  Static Ride Height  Wing 
Front  -0.060 in.  100 lbs/in.  2.50 in.  No Wing 
Rear  0.500 in.  180 lbs/in.  2.65 in.  No Wing 

Gearing  Gear  Gear Ratio  Decimal Ratio  Final Drive Ratio 
Reverse  9/44  2.692:1  10.433:1 
First  10/31  3.100:1  12.012:1 
Second  18/41  2.278:1  8.826:1 
Third  21/39  1.857:1  7.196:1 
Fourth  20/30  1.500:1  5.813:1 
Fifth  21/27  1.286:1  4.982:1 
Sixth  24/28  1.167:1  4.521:1 
Differential  8/31  3.875:1  - 

Fuel  Current  25 gallons  41 Laps

Well I just installed the 66 mod and gemcrap on my machine. I was just curious how to get rid of seeing my car in the mirrors. Also one is it still that when I release the clutch I can't get any revs but when I shift from neutral to 1st gear I get the revs and the wheel spin...makes no sense to me.

Try some of the mirror settings in the Rasteriser tab in GEM, I have all 3 (double vertical, double horizontal, direct rendering) enabled.

As for clutch, yeah, just go from N to 1st on the start unless you have a clutch pedal.

To everyone, please let us know if you're listed in the provisional team allocation (bottom of page 1 of this post) but you're not going to make it for this race (especially people intending to enter the Clubmans race). Also if there's anyone willing to join in as a full time or a reserve but hasn't done so yet, let us know too. At the moment only 5 drivers of our team have registered as full time drivers, so to reduce insecurity before each race we urge any volunteers to sign in or if they know someone who might be interested to refer them as well.

I have a clutch pedal and it still does that. >:(

and for whatever reason I can't select 1680x1050 resolution even tho I have the new rasterizer installed...gemcrap at it's finest...

I don't suppose anyone can show me how to get rasterv2.5 recognized in gemcrap, otherwise if someone can show me how to do what Hristo said without using gempcrap as I can get the correct resolution when not going thru gemcrap.

Sorry to hear that about not working with clutch pedal as well, I suspected it will. Must be some wrong physics parameter in the transmission model of the mod. But anyway, going from N to 1st works fine most of the time, although it's more risky for getting mechanical damage, but since everyone (I suppose) starts that way it's not a handicap.

Are you sure you have the latest GEM? The new rasterisers are just files you copy to the gpl folder and you don't have to set anything from inside GEM, but in there you can edit the Rasteriser settings instead of tweaking the core.ini yourself. But anyway, here's what the actual core.ini lines for the mirrors are on my side. Ah, before that, I just noticed, it appears the settings inside GEM only edit the regular rasteriser settings (Direct3D7) and you'd have to change RasterV2 on your own. I don't know exactly how the two mix with each other, but here's what I have for both:

[ Direct3D7 ]
D3DDevice=0
TossHighestMip=0                              ; 0 gives best, sharpest image / 1 for lower end cards (image will be blurry)
DoubleMirrorResWidth=1                        ; 1 gives best mirror resolution / 0 lower mirror res for lower end cards
DoubleMirrorResHeight=1                       ; 1 gives best mirror resolution / 0 lower mirror res for lower end cards
DirectMirrorRendering=1                       ; 1.....Use 0 only for problems with image location (i.e. it’s in the corner of the screen)
DisableZBuffer=0                              ; If you use 1, disabling the Z buffer will reduce frame rate by 60% according to the readme.
AlphaThreshold=1                              ; 1 for better cards / 240 for lower end cards (trees look moth eaten)
TransparentMipsDrawOrder=1                    ; 1 for best image / 0 for lower end cards (trees look moth eaten)
TrilinearFiltering= 0                         ; 1 for best image / 0 for lower end cards (non-single pass filtering, blurrier image)
AnisotropicFiltering= 0                       ; 16.....higher for best image (1 (0 level), 2 (1 level), 4 (2 level), 8 (3 level), 16 (4 level filtering)), enabled in newer cards only
LODBias= -50                                  ; .....Try 0 (blurrier), -50 (sharper), -100 (far textures tend to speckle). Aim for a setting that looks sharp without speckling.


[RasterV2]
Device=0
TossBiggestMips=0
MaxMipSize=0
MirrorSize=0
DirectMirrorRendering=1
DrawMethod=1
ZBufferType=1
AnisotropicFiltering=8
TrilinearFiltering=1
LODBias=0
32Bit=1
Width=0
Height=0
FogDensity=1000
VSync=0

RasterV2 seems to be lacking some of the mirror options from the Direct3D7 so I'm not sure if the game uses the ones from that or ignores all and uses just RasterV2.

Hristo

Sorry mate but I'm gonna have to take a raincheck on this one , just can't chase this flue bug away and I dont feel up to doing the distance or racing at all for that matter.

Doubt that I would last 41 laps of Pro racing regardless with the way I feel . Hope to join you again at a later date .

Best regards .





 

NP, Bernie, thanks.

Doni, I'm putting you in Bernie's car then.

John Roberts....................BT19
"Evil" Clive.......................BT11 BRM
Jethro Walters..................BRM (chose between P261 and P83 versions)
Will Tway........................Cooper
Iestyn Davis....................Eagle (chose between T1F and T1G versions)
Doni Yourth.....................Ferrari (chose between 246 and 312 versions)
Napo "Bomb" Bonaparte......Honda
Lorenzo Galluzi..................Lotus (chose between 43 and either of the 33 versions)
Hristo Itchov....................McLaren

Anyone else that can't make it? Please let us know while there's still a little buffer time left.

Unless I magically find some speed in the P83, I'll be going for the P261. Any particular driving tips? I apply my 65s technique around here, and it seems to pay off, although the car is rather tail-happy, mostly due to the lower grip and higher power.

Very sorry to read that you're unwell, Bernie.  Get better soon.

Of course, that opens that door for me and as Hristo notes above, I've copped Bernie's ride in a Ferrari.  I accept most graciously.  I guess that's the way it was back in the day.  You moved up when the door opened; trouble was, it was most likely that someone died to give you that chance.

I've tried neither model at Zandvoort but will have things sorted come Sunday rest assured.

Also, I believe that I subscribed to this Division as a Full Time participant.  That's most definitely the case.

Doni

Doni ......

In those days if you had told Enzo Ferrari you wasn't racing because you had a touch of the flue ..........

You would probably wish you were dead !

Good luck with my drive and  keep it safe  ;)

I had an email from Jethro on the Vader Trophy forums pointing me in the direction of this thread as you were down on drivers. I'll be honest and admit to not reading the thread, but if you're still in need I can make my services available for this one :)

H,

I suggest putting Glyn in the Coop and I'll stand by on reserve. Testing has not gone so well......

Peace,

W

Seems like I'm much in the same boat, Will.  I ran off some laps in the 312 Ferrari last evening.  I hope that I was having an 'off day'.  I was expecting MUCH better than low 28's.  :(

I'll look to crank off some more today in final prep and gun for low 27's as a minimum.

Doni

Ok, if you're really sure about it, so be it. Glyn, thanks for replying, you're stepping in for Will to take over the Cooper seat. Enjoy.  :D

So on the surface we look set, hope it's really so.  :)

Jethro, I don't know about driving tips, usually the problem with BRMs and similar cars is the additional weight on the rear, so try to negate that through the tips in my post further above. In general they handle like 65s yeah, except wtih 66s you get a frontend lift up effect especially at high speed, so raising the rear in particular might help confront that. Just experiment with whatever comes to mind.

I sent a setup to bernie while he was considered for the seat, so if you'd like to give that a go give me your e-mail and I'll send it over. From memories I think I was doing flat 27s with it.

I've managed to knock around a second off my PB here in the BRM P261, with a little more to find here and there as I learn the intricacies of this beast. Not quite on Hristo's SRou McLaren record pace. Yet.

BTW Hristo, is the Macca the 2nd fastest car in your hands then?

66 mod patch thread ..

https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5985.0

john

Is this gonna be obligatory come Sunday? AFAICT nothing changes re: physics, only collision boxes are modified for the cars.

Jethro, I'm not exactly aware of lap times, but at Zandvoort the 2L and 3L are very close in overall lap time. The reason I put myself in the 3L McLaren is that it's simply more difficult to drive in comparison to the 2L cars and it takes a lot more effort to keep it consistently on its limit. The 2L are generally straightforward and very forgiving, very similar to the 65s, so I thought I shouldn't burden anyone with the struggle that driving the McLaren competitively is. In my experience anyway. :) The actual problem would be when running close to other cars because despite its advantage in power the McLaren is definitely slower through long corners like the ones we have with Zandvoort and it also has a much longer braking distance. The safest position would be starting from pole position I guess.  :P

As for the 66 patch, if the server host or race organizer decides to run it, I hope we'd be notified early enough so everyone in our team installs prior to entering the chat room before the race itself and not get distracted by having to do it in the very last moment.

well i would say there is no reason not to use the patch as it will only help online racing .

john

I guess I can only hope I find a bit more pace and/or have UKGPL peeps starting in front of me then. :)

i'd say install it , nobody can tell you have it and it allows closer racing ... win win (hopefully for ukgpl) .

john

66 patch thread
https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=5985.0

Gents

It is unlikely that the 66 Patch will be installed on the ADC server in time for Sunday night's race. I don't know how this effects the Patch

Also there is the issue of all competitors having the same version, especially if as John indicates there is a possible performance advantage.

I think there needs to be consultation before we all run head long into this.

I need to get more info on this please

I think what John meant under closer racing wasn't performance advantage but the fact the patch provides improved more precise collision boxes for the cars. But anyway, if we don't get a definite answer as to whether it's safe to run patched clients on a non-patched server by tomorrow I suggest we all run without the patch for this event.

it doesn't , so you might as well use it


there is no performance advantage and no i didn't indicate that .


well I'm already running the patch and wont be taking it off for this race .

john

you are correct Hristo


it is safe for patched clients to run on a unpatched server , so i suggest that we all install the patch .

john

Hristo

I'm happy to follow your line as to finding out if the Patch is safe to run.

I belive it to be safe to use .

john

Yes John,

Just got a reply from Paul via Dave and I'm happy to continue, so Patch your hearts out :)


See you all in the sand dunes !!

why didnt you just ask me about it ?

john

Probably because it's a bad idea to make such a big decision based on one person's findings. Better to get confirmation from more people.

Just to clear things up, the 66patch is fully compatible with original 66. We take great care to make sure this is so. The same applies to the 65 patch which can be used in conjunction with original 65.
If these patches were not compatible we would have made them as new mods, so avoiding confusion and online errors.

I just wish other developers would do the same and not release stuff that cannot be used with the original versions which will lead to so many problems online.

@turkey, if you look at the 66patch readme you can see John is involved so he does know what he is talking about on this subject.


paul

Ok, thanks john and Paul, so everyone - install your damn patch!  >:(

 ;D

Hi guys, hope you missed me ::)

I'm back and will be getting some practice in for the Zandy show tomorrow. Looks like Hristo has created quite a team to take on ADC, so lets make 'em eat our sand. ;)

Or Zandy sand...  ;)

Fellas.

It seems that there are some late cancelations from the ADC driver roster.  I think it only sporting that I offer them my services as a reserve if their entry list is well below expectations.  The event should have some semblance of balance on participation.

Doni

Don't expect me to install this patch.


I've got better things to do, then to waste 5 minutes registering.  ::)

How about I e-mail you the patch then? :)

Could you email me it too... for the same reasons? :D Yes I'm lazy! :P

neil [at] glyndo [dot] com

Cheers

Overnight posts at the ADC indicate that they have been able to draw upon reserve drivers to bump up their roster to full strength.  The situation is well in hand, then.  I'll be in the Ferrari 312 for the UKGPL.

Hristo: Thanks for the offer of a setup for the car but I'm quite comfortable as it is.  I'm confident that I'll be able to keep pace with it over the full duration of the event.

well if you had registered for the 65 patch you wouldn't have to do it again for this one , and you will also be ready for the 67 patch ...

john

how about you gemcrap people back off! I'm not ever going to install no 60fps patch until it becomes available to 67 without gemcrap. Understand, thank you :)

thanks for email'ing me the patch Hristo. :)

how are you going to install the patch without gem ?

john

Napo, if are like me and want to keep a no-GEM/mod GPL install just install a new copy, patch it with all-in-one (or whatever it was called) and use it for GEM and mods and use your normal copy for 67s etc. Simple and takes no more than 20 mins...

That's a point... are we using the 60fps patch for this or not?
/me hopes not because I haven't installed it yet

You'll be pleased to know Glyn we are not. :D

patch keeps crashing my gplc66, I did a fresh install and it still crashes. I inadvertly lost my setup so I'm not going to bother with this patch now.

System Restore doesn't save anything. Perhaps I don't understand what it truly does. Anyways this has frustrated me as I lost my setup. I don't feel like racing anymore today, get a reserve in. This is precisely why you don't use last minute patches. Unnecessary hassle has ruined my day and no racing for me now. Thanks again Gemcrap. >:(

Did you follow the readme installation instructions? If you had a working GEM install and an installed 66 mod, patching involved nothing more than a deletion of a folder and starting/closing GEM once. I have no idea how you'd lose your setup, it doesn't touch the player setup folder at all.

Will, you're taking Napo's Honda.

Loosing my setup was my fault after I deleted the 66 mod folder after gplc66 was crashing. I went in gem, removed gpl66 install, deleted gplc66 and gplc67 in the 66 mod folder. installed patch, ran gem, did all the stuff, started gpl thru gem, and I get one of those errors before it loads into the gpl main menu screen. So that's when I deleted gem and the 66 mod folder and got the same result.

Problem is solved now.

Really enjoyed this race, had some good battles in the field. Shoulder just about held out although it aches in a couple places! Did my PB in qualifying, and had the mother of worst starts when the flag dropped cos I couldn't see the bloody thing! Ran off the road a few times, but kept it for the most part together, smacked the wall at Tunnel Oost squarely following Glyn, and he was gracious enough to let me through a few laps later when I caught him up again. Couldn't work out what happened to Hristo, thought he was being generous in letting the lapped cars through on the last lap, then find out he's a bit screwed cos the engine's gone in his McLaren.

Grats to everyone, UKGPL won this! We were in a much more commanding position with 3-4 to go as I was in the lead and Evil was in 2nd, and Doni still had enough fuel to keep a proper pace. Lucky for us the competition had already a few key members retired so we still scored higher than them.

I'm totally disgusted with some backmarkers behaviour but for the sake of enjoying our victory I'll spare mentioning names or giving details about it.

It was unfortunate for the engine to expire on the last lap, but perhaps I pushed it a bit too hard in the closing stages of the race as I wanted it to end as quick as possilble after the massive delay of the start and also to get a proper fastest lap.

Apart from those moments with backmarkers I mentioned I had a very good race and made only one mistake early on that cost me no more than 2 seconds and dropped me 3 seconds behind Kevin, but on the following lap he got stuck in the sand at T1 and so I took over the lead.

Grats to all finishers, except those that behaved like ****.  ::)

-=Hristo=-

Well I'm not sure if it's my new video card or the new patch but I was able to see everyones view on my client replay, which I had to review after reading H's post to make sure I didn't cause any interference.  O0 Much to my relief, this Honda backmarker may be old but he wasn't in the way.  ;)

Thinking the team was set, I just checked in to say hi and immediately found out we were a man down. So I scrambled to find a Steve Cloyd set-up which felt great without any adjustments. I sure wish I could blame my poor performance on it...but it was steady as a rock. After 44 laps, I finally realized I was using too much brake.  :'(  I really should have taken some time during qually and watched H. Anyway,  the battle of the backmarkers heated up after I caught back up after an early spin. Had a great battle with the oppositions Mclaren but could not find a way through.  Happy to finish and grats to the winners and the finishers. I'm sure the champaign would have tasted good but I've given up alcohol until easter........ :angel:

Thanks again to the organizers of this great event.

Will

I have to admit, I too was a slowed by some of the backmarkers but put it down to either no prib, lack of experience or colour blindness with the blue flags ::).

I left the sand dunes in what can only be described as a steaming mood, but more of that later :-\.
 After a solid qually in the 2litre brab I was amazed to keep 4th spot on the grid and even more surprised to snatch 3rd spot before T1.
Hristo was in 2nd spot and obviously intent in harassing the poor blighter who had the audacity to take pole position. So, I decided to play rear gunner for a while until my fuel load came down and allow Hristo a clear shot at the lead. They pulled away slowly and as I did not want to risk over stretching myself at this early stage  I concentrated on my own pace and let them go.
It seemed that I could pull enough gap around the twisty bits to be far enough in front down the straight to stay in front by a comfy 2+ secs over the 3 litre ADC cars following me.
Two errors each in the same spot and each preceded by a moment of lag  :-[ allowed two ADC cars to get past, and I was down to 5th.
There was still a long way to go , so I set about reeling in the cars ahead at a steady rate over the next 10 laps or so being careful to protect my tiny engine.
It seems my pace when I got within 2 secs, forced the two ADC cars to close up and fall over each other gifting me one place. It was about this point in the race that backmarkers came into play twice causing me to lose a couple of seconds each time rather than risk any contact.
Eventually I pulled myself up to within 1 sec of 3rd spot and set about pressurising the Ferrari that was now in my way. Justice was served when we caught yet another backmarker and the Fez fell over his own shoelaces trying not to rear end it and offered me a gap which I gratefully accepted.
3rd place again I thought, but it appears that Hristo had disposed of his competition up front and I was now actually 2nd!!

The car was now much lighter and I found it easy to pull away from the recovering Fez at a controllable rate especially when he appeared to have a few "moments" and eventually dissapeared from prib leaving me about 13 secs clear of the next car, a gap which I found I could extend easily.

With only 10 laps to go I decided to watch the gap and protect my engine, which in hindsight was a bad move as I had been changing gear well clear of the red line all race and had a very comfortable rythm. Instead of staying on the pace with the same gearshifts, I started short shifting and staying one gear higher though some corners...which was my undoing :-\, well that and lack of concentration!!
Exiting Tarzan in 2nd not 1st I upshifted to 3rd for Gerlachbocht briefly and as I crested the rise dropped to 2nd again...which was a sure way of unsettling the car :-\. Although I was nowhere near at max speed through that spot I was headed straight for the kerb on the inside of Hugenholzbocht. I braked slightly and thought I would ride the kerb and just lose a second or two.
Ha!! wrong again!!
Instead, I clipped the kerb with my right front wheel which neatly flipped the car into a barrell roll landing squarely on my head in the middle of the circuit!!!

To say I was somewhat miffed would be an understatement, as I was in a very comfy 2nd spot with a team 1-2 on the cards.
Not only did I manage to screw up a lap or two before I would at least have qualified for some points, but just to rub salt into the wounds I now discover that Hristo had probs later and I would prolly have taken the win in a 2 litre car???!!!

mutter mutter mutter!!!!

I used to be very "GEM wary" shall we say, but I began to trust it more over time. I still don't use it as a matter of course for every GPL session I play. For online races in iGOR there is no need to visit GEM and for offline I normally start GPL direct from the exe's by double clicking, eg. gplc66.exe. Obviously for any "first time patching" you will need to use it, but from then on in it is up to you. Even for mods in VROC you can manually rename the exe's, which is all that GEM does anyway.

I'm also wary of installer programmes such as those that the 66 patch was delivered in. I normally install to a dummy folder and take a look at what I'm being given first. Then if things go wrong you are much more likely to be able to solve the problem.

Congratulations to Mike for taking the champagne, and commiserations to Hristo who had it snatched from his often firm grasp.   Also well done to John and Tom and the other finishers, including UKGPL debutant Doni.

UKGPL six finishers 17+15+14+13+12+9= 80 points, an excellent total for a half GP!

ADC five finishers 18+16+11+10+8= 63 points

Hristo can take consolation in victory on his first attempt as team captain, despite several last minute drop outs on the UKGPL side.

Just got GPLRA Report from Mike Beattie so I've uploaded it.  Results match up with Dave's analysis :D.

Looks like Hristo has shown his leadership skills and secured the captain's mantle? ;D ;D

Well done the rest of the team...one day I will finish one of these races!!

What leadership skills, lol, I'm just a racer as well as too impatient and emotional to be the captain.

2 nil up, that's inspirational leadership!!!  :clap:

can i just say that all the back markers were nice to me lapping them .

i also had a helping a hand getting back to the front from ukgpl drivers making my way easy ..

the one that could have been a pain was very sporting and waved me passed after a lap ... yes I'm talking about you doni .

thanks much the fezza is so much faster i would have found it hard to get passed .

john

NP, JR.  I was driving for the Team, of course, and to hold you up would be counter-productive to obtaining our best possible score.  Further, I could now adopt a rear gunner action in defending against ADC challengers.  Now, as for other, upcoming, non-Inter League races...   ;D