SimRacing.org.uk

I've been trying to organise a race together with Fred Gubbels of LBGPL for some time, but our midweek schedules conflict.  However, there is an opportunity to have a race in our offseason break in February.  Fred would also like the race to form part of their championship series, and has devised some special rules for us.  He has proposed that we have a two-part race using the 66 mod, if there's enough interest.

"I propose the following meeting between drivers from UKGPL and LBGPL:

Event:

Brands Hatch 67 - mod 66
30 min qualifying session at 20.00 GMT, 21.00 GMT+1
40 laps intermediate

rules :

-1- UKGPL and LBGPL drivers have to spread plus or minus the chassis to equilibrate strengths, i.e., fastest take slower chassis according to WR
-2- shift-r authorized without restriction
-3- gentleman behaviour, i.e., in case of contact between 2 drivers, the driver behind wait for the other and give him the way
-4- If more than 19 people are registered, we do a semifinal on Tue 17th February. Based on time at finish line the first 19th are qualified for the final on 24th February. If we have less than 19 drivers we do the event on Tue 24th February

details:

-1- I have 1 server that can be used and I hope you can add one on Tue 17th
-2- We will consider this event as part of our championship, as all our races are events. This race is going to be one of them and is referred in our championship to as the "British Event". Most of our drivers can chat in English.
-3- In our championship the chassis attribution is by default spread according to strength, but drivers have bonuses they can use to buy chassis. I will ask them to determine their chassis in advance in order to see if the spread becomes disequilibrated. If this is the case, then you can adjust the spread in your team to re-equilibrate.

Keep in mind this is a proposal. I'm open to any suggestion from your side.

If you are ok with the principle, then let me publish this as soon as possible in the LBGPL forum to gather opinions. You can do the same on your side."

We'd like any comments or suggestions you may have.

Sounds good! Brands 67, mmm...  ;)

Two questions/issues pop up as I read the above:
1) How is the pre-qualifying event going to work, are we going to use 2 servers and combine the finish results? It might end up with some unfortunate folks outside the top 19 due to crashing, d/c, mechanical failure etc., so perhaps we can do just qualifying runs and take the best times combined?
2) I hope we're going to run strictly 3 liters or 2 liters and not a mix. You know how ugly it can get and from experience at Brands in particular, I know how much faster 2L can go around corners and how much later they can brake, yet 3L would blow them away on the straights. In other words a formula for disaster.  ::)

But in any case, count me in!  :)

 ;D
Sounds interesting, might be in  :angel:

Good afternoon.

Regarding your first point, if we are more than 19 drivers, I'm proposing to make two races the week before the event and have the 19th first drivers to be part of the final race based on the total time. We can calculate it from the time difference with the best leader from the two races and then take into account lap difference. In case we have to select pilots having the same number of laps, we will have a look on the replay and make our judgement based on the time. For unfortunate drivers crashing or disconnected, they will be out of the final except if we have less than 19 pilots. In this case we will select pilots based on the time difference with the leaders.

Regarding your second point, I think that Brands Hatch is a track that makes differences between 3 liters and 2 liters on one lap rather equal. The variety of chassis is one of the nice feature of Mod 66. It would be a pity to remove half of the cars. At LBGPL we have split the chassis according to the strength of the drivers, in view to enable any driver to win. It is up to UKGPL to decide how you want to spread or not the chassis. You can let the choice or attribute them, we will be happy about your choice.

Is the date OK for you ?

Thanks for the reply. While I agree that laptimes are just about equal in both 2 liters and 3 liters, it wasn't what I meant. It's the difference in speed at various points of the track that's a major issue at close racing. 2 liters can brake much later and carry much more speed through corners thus it's very easy for a 2 liter car to rearend a 3 liter. At the same time 3 liters just rocket past by 2 liters on the straights and when that happens the only chance for a 2 liters to stay ahead is either just qualify better and never lose a position to a 3l or the 3l making a mistake. Otherwise the 2l simply gets stuck behind the 3l. So you see it's not about laptimes, they're similar on most tracks, but they're achieved by having advantage in different areas which makes racing quite impractical and risky imo.

Sad but true H.

The 2ltr car ends up glued to the gearbox of the 3ltr car and as soon as the latter slows at mid corner the 2ltr car just clouts it.

When you add in the slipstream effect of 66mod I know that I am just not good enough a driver to cope with a full 66mod race.

We don't get enough practice at 66mod to really come to terms with it.  Unlike 67 mod where you can drop in on VROC at almost any hour and find something to join with people already in it, iGOR usually has one 66mod race at somewhere obscure.

We have run 66m on BREASTS League since it came out but realised after a few "Crash Feasts" that it was necessary to split it into 3ltr and what I call "Formula Hooligan" due the the number of times that the smaller cars punted their bigger brethren into the undergrowth.

sigh!....
 just one small indiscretion ::) ....and it haunts me everywhere :-\

I swear, even elephants forget...eventually?

In this case let's only use the <3L chassis, which is more fun than 3L chassis on Brands Hatch, according to me. Could you let me know who would participate in the race? I would like to make the list of participants to better organize servers and the event  :)

If there is a place I'll be glad to race in a Ferrari 246.

Ciao

I quite enjoy the little Eagle at Brands. :yes:

I'm not fussed what I drive really, Guess I could take the Lotus 33 as I've been racing it this season anyway....

Hi all,

up to now I then have the following pilots registered:

fpolicardi
Clive Loynes
Fullmetal Gasket
evilclive

Let me know if there is more to come  :)

I'll take the baby Brabham if that is available.  ;D

Up to now we have 12 drivers registered for this event  :)

UKGPL

fpolicardi
Clive Loynes
Fullmetalgasket
evilclive

LBGPL

Pascal
Eric
Jieffe
Alain
Jan
Fred
Yves
Hervé

I suspect more to come from our side, but wait for their reply

Mmmhhh...Jan, Pascal, Eric...I think to know their surname from MARA league  :)

Only Jan has been involved with MARA league :)

I started my online sim career with Jan in May '99 with GPVL league, I'll be glad to meet him again on track after a couple of years I don't hear from him  :)

Ciao

I posted this news this morning about this event.

http://www.lbgpl.be/ (http://www.lbgpl.be/)

Do not hesistate to join us for this funny event.

If we are more than 19 drivers and carry out a semi-final, then this event will not be part of our championship, but will just be a fun event.

If there is no more driver joining us, then we will do one single race on Tuesday 24th February 20.00 your time. We will launch a training race on next Tuesday as from 19.30 with one hour training followed by a short race. To join us, go in IGOR:

chat room is: LBGPL
password: belgique

server g_LBGPL
password: belgique

see you there  :D

I thought that Hristo had said yes too?

Yep.

Thanks Fred.  I should be able to make the race on the 24th, unfortunately you might not have many UKGPL drivers at the practice session tomorrow, because we've had to rerun one of our 66 league races.

If there are more UKGPL drivers who want to race on Tuesday 24th, please register an interest as soon as you can confirm, as it helps greatly with organisation.  Though this isn't a team race, I'd like to see us turn out with a full 'team' of nine drivers, if possible!

Sorry Hristo, I did not see your inscription. I take good note of yours Dave.

Up to now we have 17 drivers participating

UKGPL

fpolicardi
Clive Loynes
Fullmetalgasket
evilclive
Hristo
Dave
Turkey

LBGPL

Pascal
Eric
Jieffe
Alain
Jan
Fred
Yves
Hervé
Manu
Alexis

We can accept another 3 drivers :)

Feel free to join us tonight for the training, or on the 24th for the Event.

I guess you could tentatively add my name to the list for UKGPL. Need to go find the track and practice this week.

EDIT: On the subject of finding the track, which one are we using?

I will add you to the list Turkey.

The track is Brands Hatch 1967 (the green cover)

Is this still on?

I hope so. But it has gone very quiet on this post and it looks like we might be short of a full squad?



I was hoping to use the 2.0 Brab BRM in this one. ;D

Are we (UKGPL) going to have assigned chassis then?
Or is it a case of take what you want?
I'm happy to take the Lotus 33 BRM again, but am half tempted to take on of the 4 pot cars for a change....

Afraid I'm gonna have to swing this a miss guys, got work to do this week and I don't exactly like the 66 mod. If somebody's got a setup pack for it, that'd make my life a little easier when I sign up for the 66 events.

Yes, this is still on, and we're still looking for more drivers.  It's not just for the better UKGPL drivers either, don't be put off, I'd prefer that we take up enough of the grid that thereare no spaces!  If you haven't been able to confirm your availability before, no problem, it seems that some reserves will race.     

The race is int level and isn't a team race, so chassis choice is free.  We might be able to make use of a 66 Brands practice server though?

Fully agree with Dave's comments. Take a chassis inferior to 3l according to your strengths, i.e., If you are an alien, take rather a slow chassis.

Do not hesistate to join us, we are gentleman drivers ;-)

Details:

Brands Hatch 67 - mod 66
30 min qualifying session at 20.00 GMT, 21.00 GMT+1
40 laps intermediate

join the chat a bit before say 19.45 GMT
chat room is: LBGPL
password: belgique

To join the server go on igor
server g_LBGPL
password: belgique

Drivers:

UKGPL

fpolicardi
Clive Loynes
Fullmetalgasket
evilclive
Hristo
Dave
Sam
Turkey (probably not there)

LBGPL

Pascal
Eric
Jieffe
Alain
Jan
Fred
Yves
Hervé
Manu
Alexis

If UKGPL is in need of another driver, I may be able to take part.

You'd be welcome Sam, as would any further UKGPL drivers.  It's not a team race though there'll be drivers from both leagues on track- I'd just like UKGPL to be as well represented as possible by both senior and experienced junior drivers.

Still a couple of spaces left for reserves- forty int laps of Brands in the smaller 66s anyone?  Qualifying starts at 2000GMT.

I may be slightly late but am still racing  :)

Yeah, bung me in something Dave.....or reserve, whatever....I think I can use Brands now that my systems sorted a bit better.

May I ask WHEN is the race going to happen? There is no date on the first page or anywhere in replies that I could find.

Yesterday.

Wondered where you were.

Date was nicely tucked away in the rules section of the first post.

rules :

-1- UKGPL and LBGPL drivers have to spread plus or minus the chassis to equilibrate strengths, i.e., fastest take slower chassis according to WR
-2- shift-r authorized without restriction
-3- gentleman behaviour, i.e., in case of contact between 2 drivers, the driver behind wait for the other and give him the way
-4- If more than 19 people are registered, we do a semifinal on Tue 17th February. Based on time at finish line the first 19th are qualified for the final on 24th February. If we have less than 19 drivers we do the event on Tue 24th February

...

Thanks for setting this up Fred, always fun to be in a well-organised race on a full server.  Congratulations on the win!  I hadn't made this into a UKGPL race announcement since it wasn't one of our series, or on our server, but perhaps I could have emphasised the date and time more- it was there though.

I haven't raced the 66 mod much recently, apart from the odd short race on Thursday nights, so forty laps of Brands was always going to be a challenge- though I had more preparation than Natan, who I persuaded to race minutes before qualifying, when he turned up in UKGPL chat!

I shared the last row on the grid with Phil, and got off to a bad start when there was a collision ahead on my side- I slammed the brakes on but even at my slow starting pace just barely touched one of the cars involved, which delayed us even longer.  After that I ran fairly well and even made up some places, though Sam began to reel me in.  Then I clipped the inside of Clearways and he couldn't get around me, which sent him into the barriers, though I was straightened up quite nicely!  I resolved to let him pass when he caught up again, as he was bound to.

However, that was the end of my clean run and I made a few errors, a couple of times when I seemed to be racing someone behind me then suddenly got a blue flag- when I pulled over it seemed a few cars passed, including the driver or drivers behind me!  Still great fun, even if I wasn't very impressive at least I reached the flag without a reset, Sam having gone round the outside of me at Hawthorne with a couple of laps to go, but neither of us able to catch M. Sabate(?) just ahead.  I hope everyone enjoyed themselves as much, it seemed so as we had a friendly chat with the Belgian drivers afterwards.

Track: Brands67             Tue Feb 24 22:42:16 2009

RACE RESULTS (After 40 laps)

Pos No Driver                          Team     Nat Laps   Race Time       Diff
 1  17 Frederic Gubbels66              Lotus 33 BEL   40  64m10.701s           
 2  20 65 evilclive                    BrabBT11 USA   40  64m39.931s    29.230s
 3  19 Clive Loynes66                  Eagle101 GBR   40  65m12.756s  1m02.055s
 4   6 Alain Maurice                   BrabBT11 FRA   40  65m18.521s  1m07.820s
 5  14 J.-Francois Bovy                BrabBT11 BEL   40  65m32.678s  1m21.977s
 6  21 Tim Muttram66                   Eagle101 GBR   40  65m38.744s  1m28.043s
 7   2 Pascal66 Delbrassinne           BRM P261 BEL   39  64m13.865s   1 lap(s)
 8   4 Fulvio Policardi-66             Ferr 246 ITA   39  64m14.465s   1 lap(s)
 9  16 natan vix 66                    BrabBT11 BEL   39  64m30.203s   1 lap(s)
10   3 Jan Verschue66                  Lotus 33 BEL   39  64m54.914s   1 lap(s)
11  22 Manu Vega66                     BrabBT11 FRA   39  65m15.771s   1 lap(s)
12  25 Herve Sabathe                   Lotus 33 FRA   39  65m41.811s   1 lap(s)
13  12 Sam Blood                       BRM P261 GBR   39  65m43.145s   1 lap(s)
14   1 Bruce Sikes                     BRM P261 GBR   39  65m44.993s   1 lap(s)
15  44 Yves Dal                        BrabBT11 BEL   38  64m23.868s   2 lap(s)
16  11 Phil Thornton66                 Ferr 246 GBR   24  44m24.033s  16 lap(s)
17   7  gouju                          BrabBT11 USA   13  23m19.800s  27 lap(s)
18  24 Eric Appelmans 66               Ferr 246 BEL    1   1m43.495s  39 lap(s)
19  46 Gpg GPLCUPS                     Lotus 33 USA    0 DidNotStart  40 lap(s)


Race results are unofficial
(Replay might have been saved before end of race)

RACE FASTEST LAPS

Pos Driver                                 Time Lap
 1  Frederic Gubbels66                1m34.847s  29
 2  65 evilclive                      1m35.237s  36
 3  Alain Maurice                     1m35.622s   3
 4  Fulvio Policardi-66               1m35.850s  34
 5  J.-Francois Bovy                  1m36.029s  21
 6  Clive Loynes66                    1m36.190s  22
 7  Pascal66 Delbrassinne             1m36.547s  32
 8  Tim Muttram66                     1m36.824s  17
 9  natan vix 66                      1m36.957s  29
10  Manu Vega66                       1m37.013s  31
11  Jan Verschue66                    1m37.083s  37
12  Herve Sabathe                     1m37.349s  22
13  Sam Blood                         1m37.847s  32
14  Bruce Sikes                       1m38.583s  37
15  Yves Dal                          1m38.749s   8
16   gouju                            1m40.099s   4
17  Phil Thornton66                   1m41.049s  14
18  Eric Appelmans 66                 1m41.313s   1
19  Gpg GPLCUPS                         No time


LEADERS

Driver                           Laps
Alain Maurice                    1-6
Frederic Gubbels66               7-9
Alain Maurice                    10
Frederic Gubbels66               11-40

Number of lead changes: 3
Number of leaders: 2


LAPS LED

Driver                           Laps led
Frederic Gubbels66               33
Alain Maurice                    7


HIGHEST CLIMBER

Driver                           Start Finish  Change
natan vix 66                        13      9       4 
Clive Loynes66                       7      3       4 
Bruce Sikes                         17     14       3 
Phil Thornton66                     18     16       2 
Tim Muttram66                        8      6       2 
Yves Dal                            16     15       1 
65 evilclive                         3      2       1 
Sam Blood                           14     13       1 
Fulvio Policardi-66                  9      8       1 
Herve Sabathe                       12     12       0 
Frederic Gubbels66                   1      1       0 
Gpg GPLCUPS                         19     19       0 
Manu Vega66                         11     11       0 
J.-Francois Bovy                     5      5       0 
Jan Verschue66                      10     10       0 
Pascal66 Delbrassinne                6      7      -1 
Alain Maurice                        2      4      -2 
 gouju                              15     17      -2 
Eric Appelmans 66                    4     18     -14 


ON TRACK LAPS

Driver                           Laps/Total    Percent
Clive Loynes66                      (39/40)      97.50
Tim Muttram66                       (34/40)      85.00
Bruce Sikes                         (34/39)      87.18
Sam Blood                           (34/39)      87.18
natan vix 66                        (33/39)      84.62
Frederic Gubbels66                  (32/40)      80.00
Alain Maurice                       (31/40)      77.50
65 evilclive                        (31/40)      77.50
Fulvio Policardi-66                 (30/39)      76.92
Yves Dal                            (28/38)      73.68
Jan Verschue66                      (27/39)      69.23
Pascal66 Delbrassinne               (27/39)      69.23
Manu Vega66                         (26/39)      66.67
J.-Francois Bovy                    (25/40)      62.50
Herve Sabathe                       (21/39)      53.85
Phil Thornton66                      (9/24)      37.50
 gouju                               (3/13)      23.08
Eric Appelmans 66                     (1/1)     100.00


RACE LAPTIME CONSISTENCY
(first lap excluded)

Driver                    Avg Deviation  Std Deviation  Avg Laptime   Laps
Frederic Gubbels66                0.761          1.124    1m36.126s     40
Clive Loynes66                    1.157          2.584    1m37.603s     40
Bruce Sikes                       1.247          2.099    1m40.652s     39
Alain Maurice                     1.418          2.334    1m37.880s     40
Tim Muttram66                     1.432          3.539    1m38.277s     40
natan vix 66                      1.465          2.502    1m39.002s     39
65 evilclive                      1.568          3.770    1m36.884s     40
J.-Francois Bovy                  1.679          2.505    1m38.126s     40
Yves Dal                          1.879          2.799    1m41.076s     38
Fulvio Policardi-66               1.917          3.353    1m38.386s     39
Pascal66 Delbrassinne             1.925          4.346    1m38.643s     39
Jan Verschue66                    2.176          3.731    1m39.684s     39
Manu Vega66                       2.321          4.255    1m39.778s     39
Sam Blood                         2.418          4.172    1m40.224s     39
Herve Sabathe                     3.554          5.506    1m40.835s     39
 gouju                            7.862          9.367    1m47.191s     13
Phil Thornton66                   8.898          5.844    1m50.039s     24


All times are unofficial
(Replay might have been saved before end of race)

Generated with GPL Replay Analyser

You can get the rest of the analyser bumph here:

http://grandprix.xs4all.nl/Results/Leagues/GPLCUPS/Season-2009/3-ReplayAnalysis/GPLCUPS__Gpg.2009.02.24.22.42/index.html

You're welcome Dave.

This race will stay in my mind not because I eventually won the race, but rather because it was a very nice and special meeting between gentleman drivers. I had a very poor start because I'm not yet familiar with the revs of the 66 mod. Alain and Clive passed me but I gradually came back in the rear of Clive and maintained a constant pressure on him. He suddently went out at Hawthorne Bend, which is a pity as we had a very fair fight. Then I came back in the wheels of Alain and found enough drag to pass his BT11 2.7 in the straight with my lotus 33 climax. It was a hot moment, which was follow by several tentatives on his side to pass me. I made a slight mistake at Dingle Dell Corner and he passed me back, but I used the same strategy to pass him again the following lap.

Thanks to everybody for joining us. I had only nice feedback from LBGPL drivers, let's try to organize another one later this year...

Deffinatly - Your drivers are all very fair and Gentlemanly (made up word ;D) I'd be delighted to challenge them again  :euro:

It was an excellent race and seemed to last about half a day.

Hope I will be able to do the next one.

Most of my race was a battle with J-FB, which was a good clean fight all the way.  In the end he worried me onto the inside curb at Sterlings.  Saddly, for him, that meant that I had to lift and he nudged my gearbox and went off.  I think that there were only a few laps to go at that point. 

Then I encountered Alain falling back towards me so I struggled onto the bottom step of the podium.

Yes Fred, I was disappointed to make a small mistake so early in the race and after going onto the grass, I had to wait a long time for a gap to get going again.

After that I was chasing your shadow through the field, but always losing a little time trying to make a pass on the next car.
In fact I was very surprised when after many laps I caught Alain to move back up to 2nd place, but I see that he was having some problems with his Brabham.

It was great fun and the race was long, hard and fair with everyone showing true sportsmanship.

Already looking forward to another meeting.