SimRacing.org.uk

Back to power - Spa - classic track and all about holding the speed through the corners but finishing and crashing out from first are easy to get mixed up!  Remember that this championship is all about TEAM points so your choice of chassis will be important.

Teams can choose to run any cars they like, but in any race each all team members must drive different cars, so only one driver can drive the car that does not need to stop.

Pit stop times are listed below with a choice of a single long stop or two shorter stops... the choice is yours.

THIS RACE WILL HAVE A ROLLING START AND CARS ARE EXPECTED TO MAINTAIN THEIR GRID POSITIONS FOR THE FIRST LAP. THE POLE CAR WILL LEAD THE PACK AROUND AT A STEADY SPEED AND RACING WILL START AS CARS EXIT THE FINAL CORNER ON LAP 1.


"Please ensure you are aware of the new in-series penalties for this season. Details are here (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=10879.0). Drivers incurring a penalty will receive a PM informing them of this."

Race list	iGOR
Server	T7_2
IP address	62.149.202.168
Date	07-10-2012
Race time	Race starts at 09:30 UK time
Qualifying time	Between 30 and 60 minutes, starting no later than 21:00 UK time
Track	Spa
Mod	GT
Damage model	INT (Each driver is allowed a single Shift-R)
Race length	15 laps
Replay	Available here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/replays/Archive/Season23/GTs/S23_GTs_R06_2012_10_07_Spa.rar)

Spa

Chassis	Single Stop Time	Double Stop Time	Post Race Time Penalty
Porsche 910	No Stop	No Stop	0
Ford GT40 Mk1	86	38	111
Lola T70 Mk3	144	67	169
Ford GT40 Mk2B	145	68	170
Ford GT40 Mk4	155	73	180
Mirage M1	158	74	183
Ferrari 330/P4	163	77	188
Chaparral Mk2D	176	81	201
Chaparral Mk2F	225	111	250

First Pit Window is:   3 to 8   (13 to go on your pit board until 8 to go on your pit board)  
Second Pit Window is:   5 to 12  (11 to go on your pit board until 4 to go on your pit board).


Some useful information about pitstops. If you unsure about anything please post  a question and we will give you the answers.

1) We recommend the use of the small programme   "GPL WAIT"   .....link here This will time your stop for you and is simple to set up and operate.

2) Pitstops must be taken by coming to a halt in YOUR pitbox. That means where there is a black board with your racing name on it in pit lane.

3) To be sure that you are correctly in your pitbox approach your name board carefully with your car close to the pit wall. Just when the board vanishes STOP and you are correctly positioned.

4) If your stop is LESS than 30 seconds you can be a little less precise with your position as GPL will not disco you automatically.
    However, if your stop is MORE than 30 secs you need to be correctly parked in your pitbox otherwise at 30 seconds GPL will retire your car. THIS IS WORTH PRACTISING OFFLINE.

5) Stop n Go after a Shift-R must be taken as a separate stop and cannot be combined with your mandatory pitstop.

6) Priority in pitlane is given to cars that are moving. If you are about to leave the pits after your stop you MUST wait if another car is about to pass you in the pits.

I would like to participate to this event. Do you need a driver ?

Sergio you can race at my place for Team7.
Thx

Ok m8 thx.
Grazie Fulvio, spero che tu stia bene.

T7 server is set to 15 laps Long race and listening on Igor on Console session with OpenGL_V2.

@ Sergio, Sam and Sky usually drive Ford GT MkIV and MkI so you have a nice choice, not the 910 I hope  ;D

Ciao

Surprise! I will not use neither Ford nor my loved 910!  ;)

Ciao

Where is the GPL Wait link?? It seems to have been nicked.
Anyone need a driver for this race? I'll be available....just PM me or something similar.
Geoff.

Geoff, if you like you can join Team International for this race!

I upped GPLWait:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/wf1e7u

Thanks Axel, but I have accepted the offer from the Wazas...

Thanks for the GPL Wait...:)

Yeah, just to point out officially - Geoff is driving for Hiki Waza 1 in this race.

OK, I don't know who made that up, but stopping at your board in the pitlane still takes you off the track and only after 20 seconds. I stopped exactly at my board, I was full stop on the brakes, I hit my GPLWait button and it switched to F10 view for the count, I never got the "press F1 for help" message which means I was right in my pit stall, and 20 seconds later it retired me. What a load of crap!!!

Can we please get less insanely long pitstops from now on? Those 3-4 minutes 1-stops are just impossible, even if I kept moving each 15 or so seconds without relying on the "proven" method above, I would run out of pit road to make the full pitstop. Otherwise I feel like I'm wasting my time with these series.

Yep same here. After getting discoed in the pits at my last GT race pitstop I was very careful to stop right at my board & as Hristo says 20 secs later I get kicked off. No "press f1" warning either. Worked fine in online practice (& I tried it out dozens of times there as others on the server can testify) but on the race server I get kicked. Got to agree with Hristo - feels like a waste of time preparing for these races only to get discoed in the pits every time you try & do a stop.

I stopped perfectly on my pit box but still got discoed without the "Press F1 for Help" prompt.

I think this was down to the revised pit boxes in qually.  I assume the reason the pit boxes were moved was to negate the need to do a full lap before doing a timed lap.  OK in qually but in the race GPL still had the pit boxes on the back straight - no good for pit stops.

I expect almost everyone will get discoed during pit stops.  Make the race null and void IMO.  A rerun should be considered for this race.

OK, here is a wild guess - the moved pitlane for practice (which BTW had terrible pit stall positions right on the ideal line and I ruined Evil's lap when I was entering the track) must have nullified the condition which keeps you on track when you're at your board in the original pitlane. I can't see what else the cause would be if not this, if you're so sure that the method of stopping at your board normally works.

Stopping at your board normally does work H - Just not tonight. I got disco'd in my pit stall too  ::)

Thanks H & Phil. That explains why I was able to stop OK on the practice server but not in the race.

Same here!

Must be a new one with right pits...

Pretty sure it's the edited pitlane stall positions which was the cause, after seeing so many retiring for the same reason. A re-run at the end of the season?

I Agree!

Almost certainly I think. Apologies for not testing this out. The revised pit lane was in place from a previous 65 race. I totally forgot about it but assumed that as the pit board was in the normal pit lane it would be ok.

You all have my apologies.

I can't confirm that there will be a re-run for three reasons.

1) It's Clive's series
2) We may not have a slot
3) I came second!

Think there will be though ;)

Stick to your guns, Paul!  P2?  WWWOOOHHHOOO!!!  :)

As most everyone else, booted from pitlane during my stop.  Pity, too.  Was having an enjoyable ride.

LOL Doni.

Bah - 4th... that's NOWHERE... thought I had done nine laps :(

I have set this race as Non-Championship pending Evil's decision. That means it is NOT reflected in the points table. The replays ARE however shown in the replays table as Round 6.

Although it might deflate Paul somewhat, I think we will have to re-run this race IF there is a slot at the end of the season.

This decision has nothing to do with the fact that I made a total hash of Stavelot on the first racing lap and is purely as a result of the issue with pit boxes  ::) Would I lie to you guys? ::)

I also have to confess that I am concerned about the number of failed pitstops in previous races. This is ruining some very promising races for many drivers.
When the stops work, they do bring the field closer together at the end of the race, but when it doesn't, it strips many cars out of the race.  :-\

I too practised my pitstops and was confident that I had nailed the cortrect position to stop.....I just did not get that far in the race.  :-\

I have a possible solution but it involves omitting the pit stops altogether and adopting a handicap format that kicks in at the start of the race.  I've initiated some on-line tests just this morning, Monday, and early results seem promising.  If Clive will sanction furter investigation, I'll look at doing more on-line tests today.  It's a national holiday here in Canada and I can spare the time.

Not sure what your idea is, but Gareth had a good one yesterday in Igor chat - just race normally without stopping and then we apply pitstop lengths to the final results.

I don't agree to this one instead.
This solution, transform an inline race in a chrono race, I don't like at all. This could means that there will be not the adrenaline of sprint Finish only because there will be the handicap to apply and so a driver could stay near behind the leaders counting on a  better handicapped car to solve the problem. In other words, it is important that, the 1st who passes the finish line is the winner otherwise a race become a calculation.

I would like to know if there is a solution to the problem of reset in the pits without reappearing in a unpredictable point on the track.

My solution kicks in right at the start of the event and does not require any calculations after the race.  The winner is the first to cross the finish line.  End of story.  It does, however, require participants to obey their assigned handicaps and watch the start clock in GPL closely.  As I noted above, initial tests seem promising but more on-line work is needed to confirm its viability.  It may not work out.

News later today...

Waiting on the grid for 4 minutes could be a spot dangerous Doni  ;D

While applying a post-race time penalty would fix the pitstop issue I agree with Sergio that it would ruin the racing so arn't in favour.
I've only failed one correctly performed stop and go and that was last nights - the one I messed up in the previous race was my own fault as I didn't stop in my pit box.
I've managed a 2:30 stop no problems IIRC earlier this season as have most people.

Yes, Tim I am with you!

So far the problems were only selfmade with GLWait.

The only problem I see at Spa is the driving through the pitlane of some guys...

I also have the fear of not reaching my pitbox if some others do allready stop.

At Spa the issue of someone being in/near your spot isn't so important. If you abort and continue it'll only cost you 2 or 3 seconds :)

Just did a quickie online test with a UKGPL server featuring Axel, Evil and Alain Maurice.

Failure.  :(

For my handicaps to work, they must be employed prior to the member starting.  GPL apparently has a cut-off of three minutes.  If you haven't started by then, you can't at all.

End of story.  End of plan.

Still an interesting idea Doni. I'll think about it some more...

Just so that everyone knows that I do sometimes consider different solutions.....lol

My intention in introducing pitstops was to try to make the actual racing last longer.

Because of the huge performance difference between the cars in GT's, it was pretty obvious that most races would be decided in the first 50% of the race as the faster cars and drivers eased away. I felt that drivers would be lucky to have any wheel to wheel racing for the last 30% of the race, which let us be honest, makes life a little boring huh?

I did consider an option like Garth has suggested, whereby we add the handicap time at the end of the race, but as Tim and Axel have already commented this would be rather artificial and require everyone to run prib and have a calculator alongside their steering wheel to work out where they might be in the race......not what I would call racing  :-\.

 I also wondered about something along the lines of Doni's idea, but discovered that would not work either.. :(

I wish there was an easier way to make a pitstop that did not rely on parking your car in such a precise position, but I think that it is something that gets easier and more accurate with practice.

The only option that I have up my sleeve that would work for you drivers, but would make my moderator's job a nightmare, is to introduce multiple pitstops for the faster cars with no stop longer than 25 secs. As you will already have worked out...at least those of you who selected the 2F for Spa will have spotted this I am sure.

In a 15 lap race around Spa where the 2F needs to spend 225 secs in the pits you would be stopping almost every second lap, even if the time to get in and out of the pits was factored in. Plus drivers would need to remember how many stops they had done!!!

Just for comparison......

At present the 2F requires a  single 225 second pit stop in a 15 lap race around Spa and this allows for 10 seconds lost in slowing down and speeding up again.

So, if we assume 6 stops that already accounts for 60 seconds ( 6 x slow down and speed up) leaving 175 seconds of stationary time that would mean each stop at around 29 seconds......maybe a fraction close to the 30 second disco point??
So 7 stops would be the way to go...7 x 10 seconds= 70, leaving 155 seconds of stationary time to be divided up...each of the 7 stops would be 22 secs. In a 15 lap race with a rolling start, that would put you in the pits on laps 2,4,6,8,10,12 and 14.  Is that reasonable ??? It should certainly keep the leaders in close proximity throughout the whole race, but I fear that all of those stops would deter people from even trying the 2F  or 2D?  what do you guys think???

There was another idea put forward, to keep the racing interesting, in a GT series.  Each driver could be required to drive each car once, or more during a Season.  You could limit championship leaders to slower cars.  If pitstops threaten to kill the series, it's time to consider alternatives.

The bit that really confused me yesterday was if the pit boxes had been moved why did the pit boards remain in the pit lane?  The reason long pit stops are feasible is if you stop in your pit box you won't get discoed.  But that assumes it is possible to identify your pit box and if we can't rely on the pit boards to help us it means long pit stops are just too risky. 

I've had a look at the track.ini file and played around with the pit stalls.  I can't work out how GPL decides where to put the pit board.  All I know is if we use the "normal" pit stall positions, I've never been discoed when I stop at my pit board.

As Clive has said, he thought about lots of different handicapping options but very few allow slow and fast cars to compete over a single race.  Over a season yes, but then drivers take turns in the faster cars and hence take turns at winning which is very boring IMO.  The problem with the GTs is that the range in performance is vast.  That was partly why the Porsche Super Cup format was used.  In a normal GT race at Spa with no handicapping who would take a Porsche?  Just taking it to collect some "tokens" or because "it was my turn" would simply produce very boring and tedious races.  At least with the pit stop format the Porsche has a genuine chance of winning a race at Spa.

I think the actual system is good as it is!

The last races showed that there are good balanced handicaps given.
Of course there are some fast laps more needed for some cars on some tracks to make it better (e.g. the ChapD at Imola  ;) )

This Spa desaster was caused by the moved pit stalls, so no problem for me to repeat in the common way.

Yes, I guess normally it's not an issue, however what IS an issue is serving such long pitstops if you happen to miss your pit stall. Do you reverse the car back? What if there is another car behind you? How do you creep forward over such a short pitlane when you have a near 4 minutes pitstop? My main issue is with the huge length of the pitstops, not the actual system. I liked it when it was used in 67s D1 division.

I like the alternative of using each car once per season mandatory, but it usually leads to spec racing.

The pitstop problem isn't with Evil's idea, it's Gpl's fault for not liking pitstops.  There's no harm in looking for something better.  A second idea would be to give everyone free car choice in race 1, and then handicap 5 pairs of drivers each race, according to championship standings, after each race. (Ignore penalties not yet assessed) I'm just suggesting, there may be alternatives, if problems continue. :)

I did several pitstop tests at Spa with nearly 3 min none failed!
Even one when I overshoot the board a lttle, I reversed and then pushed the start button.

I keep 1st gear, no throttle and never move.
IMO its the driver who has to learn how to stop correct.

I see the problem when there are allready several cars waiting, so I had the idea of doing another lap if this situation occurs.

Still, it could happen that you can't stop at your pit stall, for one reason or another, and then such long pitstops are impossible to serve with a normal length pitlane.

This situation certainly does have legs, doesn't it?  All the suggestions and comments.  It's good!  :)

I noted above that my online test today with some UK regulars failed.  Let me clarify that with some particulars.

I knew that I could address every element of a handicap employed at the start of the race with one exception.  Otherwise, it would work like a charm.  The test would show me.

I'd have to re-write the pit stall and grid locations(in fact, they'd be identical).  NP.  I've done this dozens of times for the ADC.  The only real doubt was how long after the green flag falls does a user have to enter the race(via the green button).  I expect that you all know all too well that if you don't make the grid before the green flag falls that the button disappears but it does come back after about 15-16 seconds.  You get a late start from your pit stall.  This was the key to my invoking the handicaps.

For a race, nobody would go to the grid.  Everyone just stays back at the menu page and lets the starter flag off an empty grid.  When the green button comes back, users of the car assigned no handicap could punch it, be deposited in their pit stall and off they'd go.  All other users would then wait for their assigned time to click off and then proceed.  Trouble is, GPL limits the amount of time that the green button is available that second time.  It's only two minutes.  For our Spa race, the Chaparral had a handicap of 3m45s.  In the test today, I watched from the viewport on the menu page as Axel, Evil and Alain Maurice motored away at the drop of the green flag.  My green button disappeared at the drop of the flag.  I waited the 15-16 seconds and the green button came back.  I didn't push it wanting to see how long it would stay available.  I was hoping that it was infinite.  No such luck.  It disappeared for a second and fianl time after two minutes.  That kills any chance of using the technique for longish handicaps.

This arrangement would work provided that the handicap didn't exceed two minutes(for the sake of a cushion, say, 118s; fumble the button strike and you ARE a DNS).  It could also be employed in a format that split the event into two heats with each being scored separately or combined on aggregate.

I think the actual system could function if...several things have to be done well to make the system functioning perfectly, one of these if not the major is ...don't have hurry when coming to the pit stall because make a mistake here...means to be out. Having a good practice with this procedure is very important (like everything here in GPL). I would like to leave the refueling free just pressing <SHIFT>+<R> in the pit stall, but it is still unkown if there is something that could make this behaviour possible. (anyway I've used refueling stops at least in 2 races I only remeber we all had to add a file called minrace.lp to the GPL directory to make the refueling without respawn on the race line possible)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img829/8823/gtporsche.jpg)
 ;D

lololol Jonny.  maybe the Porsche was the right car to choose?

Haha! In a different dimension apparently :o