SimRacing.org.uk

ALL members welcome.

This is primarily a test race to check out the Road America addon track for GTR2 before it's used in the official Super Endurance race next Saturday.

Practice 1:	20:00	(5 mins)
Qual 2:	20:05	(25 mins)
Race:	20:30	(80 mins)

Cars allowed: (These will be the non-ballasted versions of the cars!)

• Gillette 'The Best A Man Can Get' Vertigo.
• Nissan 'I'm French Really' 350Z.
• Dodge Viper 'Lard On Wheels' Competition Coupe.
• BMW 'The Ultimate Poser Machine' Z3M.
• Porsche 911 'Big Bum' Cup.

Weather: Changeable (Based on real world weather).
Track: Road America v1.0.0.1 - download from here (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3356.msg54521#post_roadamerica).
Race Start Time 14:00.
Pit Stops: 1 mandatory pit stop to take on fuel or tyres (or both).

Server: UKGTR RA Fun Race
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Notes:
(1) Please make sure you are fully aware of the UKGTR Rules (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3349.0) - especially the speed limiter starting procedure and the rules about in-game chat messages.
(2) You will not be able to join the server without v2.7.5.0 of the UKGTR skin and ballast pack (download here (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3356.msg54519#msg54519)).
(3) Drivers are reminded that they must select ISDN as their bandwidth, otherwise the stability of everyone's connection will be reduced.

I better download the track and have a look.

I've heard a number of people raving about this one. Time to find out....

If I want to practice for this on single player in order to use the non ballested cars, do I simply pick a car from the standard GTR2 showroom as opposed to the UKGTR.

Spot on JPS :)

Had a few quick laps, or should I say slow laps.

I found the tarmac to be "fuzzy" in sections. Looks strange.

Also I had a few bumps and although minor, I seemed to end up with punctures too easily, sometimes at the opposite side of impact.

I thought i'd practise in the GT1's knowing i cant make the race but thankfully there is now a race i can do!

Looks like the new GT3 field is getting a tryout ;)

This is definately a power circuit with the long straights, so the Viper is the obvious choice.

Super circuit, almost remembered it from Indy Car 2 days  :o

Strange track texture, especially going down hill where it seems to pick up a sparkle effect. Sure we've seen that somewhere before.

 ??? I never ever got a puncture when just driving on track. Maybe I'm not trying enough?  ::)
Fuzzy texture? Big deal!  :no:

TT

Isn't there a file over at no grip to remove sparkle effect i haven't  got it i just am sure i saw one there.

I did not mean bumps in the road surface, I mean small accidents clipping the wall.

Although the fuzzy texture is no big deal, it does not look too pretty.

I'm not seeing any funny textures  ???

The track looks fine to me

Ah, minor contacts with the wall. There are such?  :D  I usually do it properly.  :P

TT

Just a couple laps each; original physics times with default setup bar soft tyres on all but Elise.
350Z: 2:14
Vertigo: 2:15
VCC: 2:16
Z3M: 2:18
Elise: 2:20-something - I refuse to drive the 811. I have to have some standards!

For my tastes Z3M and Vertigo nicest to drive, 350Z should be manageable with some setup work, VCC mad, bad and dangerous to know, possibly a winner here with some setup work.

The nissan and the Viper just feel too heavy and understeer like hell even though they seem to be the most powerful of the bunch. Just needs a suspension tweak i hope! Never ran the vertigo before and it feels good round the corners but will get thrashed down the straights.

The elise might not be a good choice Dave, its not down to run in the race.

Quite excited by the possibilities of this class and will make this one.

I've done the Vertigo and brilliant 811 thing to death now so I'm sizing up a new weapon. Could never drive a bimmer (alfa owner thing) so I'm stuck between the VCC and the Renault/Nissan collaboration. Hope they drive better than they look  :angel: 

Damn, I wasn't going that quick in the TVR  :-[

This is one of the only tracks I have ever driven where you can actually get the VCC into 6th gear  ;D

(still turns like a narrowboat though)

I will be watching you all pass me on the straights from the armchair in my vertigo.

hmmmm Dodge Viper and Gillet Vertigo. My two favorite cars in the same class...which to choose?  :-\

I think we should get the welding gear out and make a 'Dodgelet-Vipergo' , just for me  :)

Made with the weight and handling of the Viper with the power and looks of the Vertigo  ;D

 :laugh:

I won't be here for the race (on hols for 2 weeks) but I had a quick go last night. I used to like road america back in my ICR days, but I found it a dull and frustrating place to hotlap this time. Long, long straights with mostly 90 degree bends unlinked to the next one doesn't exactly get the adrenaline flowing. The main challenge is getting your braking right and getting on the power at exactly the right time. If you mess up the latter then most of the time you run onto the tiny exit curb and get sucked into the gravel. The only corners of real interest are in the 2nd half, with the long loop and the kink following it being tricky to get right.

Still, I expect it will be more fun to race, although I can't help thinking track this will emphasize the differences between the cars. The Nissan ought to walk it really.

Just thought I would highlight that the BMW ZM3 does not appear on car choice in practice server.

It is a strange track, a few very tricky bends. The one after the snap on bridge, I just can't judge correctly.

Should be sorted now, shout if not or if there is something else missing ;)

There's only one way to find out....  ;D   FIGHT!

I didnt think the standard cars were that equal to start with. I can see the different makes running against themselves.

Sorted.

I had a go in all the cars to see which I prefer.

Never been a fan of the cup cars but they feel pretty good around about here.

Roughly looking at times and fuel usage, I think it could be a good race between the 911, viper and Vertigo.

The Viper is the fastest, not by much, but the pit stop will drag it back into the 911 and Vertigo's pace over 80 mins.

The 911 is slightly slower, couple of tenths and slightly more fuel usage than vertigo but should still manage 80mins without topping up at pit stop so irrelevant.

I guess some of the race will come down to good driving(obviously) but driving the Vertigo or 911 I guess some will be luck not to get stuck behind a Viper, as it will kill corner speed then leave you on the straights.

I think if you take the Z3 you will only be racing other Z3s. Would take some performance to keep up with the other cars. I'm about 1.5secs a lap slower that with the 911, Vertigo and Viper.


I have never used the 350z for more than a couple of practice laps and never really taken any note of it.

However it feels good around about here, infact too good for the other cars. Fuel usage is low, tyre wear is on par with the other cars and it's about 2 secs a lap quicker with me. It's a class apart from the other cars on this track and drives really well.

Had some laps in the ViperCC.  HOW ??? in the world can this terrible warthog be a favorite car to anybody (ok, Team Big and Small Teeth out, they don't qualify as normal. Ok, maybe JonM who was a ZIPper before that  :P ). Ten points down, Psuedo!  :wetfish:

TT

I don't get it either, but it does have a following. I really don't understand Dave when he says 'I refuse to drive the 811' - why? What is it you don't like about it (and all 911s)? I realise it takes a bit of getting used to, but it isn't that bad. It has far more character than either the Viper or the Nissan, both of which feel rather numb to drive.

The track is starting to grow on me now. I still think the Nissan is the one to beat, but the Porsche is pretty good when you get in the groove.

PS Me liking the 911 is nothing to do with brand loyalty - I drive a front engined Porsche anyway, and I'd like any car in the game if it felt nice to drive.

Cayenne?

You obviously don't know much about Porsches - the clue is in the username  :-* :P

Oh, that one...I'd forgotten about it. :-[ :laugh:

924? ;)

With the GT3 options available last season (Viper cc or (spit) pork cup) I find it difficult to understand why anybody would choose the VW. Except for the fact it is so easy to drive I bet even Coultard could get within a second of the pack in it. At least the Vcc is a REAL car...not something adapted from what Noddy drives like the (spit spit) vw beatle-u-like

You're all wrong, because all these cars suck.

Viper CC is not a racing car, it's a brick with a big engine.
Porsche Cup is boring to drive, so much understeer for what is supposed to be a for the road racer, lacks any feeling of power and is downright awful on the brakes.
BMW Z3M not enough grunt and very hard to get the best out of.
Nissan 350Z handles much worse in the game than in real life, understeer hell and feels bloated.
Gillet Vertigo runs on a lawnmower engine and requires driving at 150% to get anything decent out of it, anything under that and it's actually quite dull to drive because it's slow unless you're ragging it to within an inch of it's life.

and your point is ? ???   :angel: :laugh:

He's just a grumpy old fart.  ;D  At least lately.  ;)
He needs a new game.  :yawn:

TT

I just don't "grok" any of the 911s - they all seem to have the worst possible basic characteristics, understeer under power and oversteer under braking, totally the opposite of what I want to inspire confidence.

The 350Z is a bit numb in game but a lot of that is down to the awful default setup. The VCC needs to be driven quite agressively under power to enjoy it, but it's remarkably 'soft' compared to the lighter cars which IMHO gives it good feel.

Understeer under power is something you can tune out in the setup. The cup car isn't a lairy power oversteer monster, but it can certainly be setup to change it's line under power. The brakes are not the easiest but a bit of power while braking helps.

The up-side to this is that the car gives you far more options at turn-in and mid corner as the weight at the back makes the car very adjustable. It moves just enough to tell you what the car is doing without really upsetting the car and slowing you down, and this communication feels very much like a real car does on the limit.

When you drive the Viper though you get none of these signals, and it feels like driving with moon boots and  oven gloves on. It isn't really much of an oversteerer either, needing a big setup change to stop it understeering everywhere (much more than the change needed on the cup car).

True :P, but I'm right, they all suck. ;D :-*

The Z3 is the best car in these choices....or the Vertigo ;D

Hate Porkers on the brakes. They can't be that bad in real life can they?

i see all the usual Porsche bashers are out in force again  ::) :sleep1:

Yes they are so rubbish thats why they are one of the most popular single make Racing series across europe with Carrera cup races and Porsche supercup supporting the F1 championship at all european rounds.  :-*

Cant make this race as away on hols  8) .. celebrating our well fought for championship win in GTC and close run 2nd spot in Enduro  ;)

So - to translate for you non-Porsche-lovers ....

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, Porches are the best blah blah blah blah blah.

;D

did you speak Volvo driver?  ::)  you should be well suited in the rolling brick of a viper with its similar handling characteristics :laugh:

I love the old "because a lot of people like it means it's good" argument. A lot of people voted George Bush or support Chelsea FC. ::)

I just found this picture of Jonzo...
(http://www.mltcreative.com/images/figures-colorful/bug.jpg)

And ooh look it has incorporates the new "turn key" mechanism on the left.  ;):angel:

I don't have a Volvo MJ ::)  Maybe too many years salivating over those jumped up Beetles has got you imagining things ;D ;D ;D

only cos you sold it  ;)

It served it's purpose....but my point stands :)

They must have cocked up all the GTR2 porkers then, everyone raves about them in real life but I can't stand em in this!  :laugh:

i think the RS and RSR are well re-created in GTR2 but the cup car feels a bit lifeless and dull compared to the PCC mods in rFactor and to the real version.
The Supercup mod for GTR2 spruces them up a fair bit, and a better sound mod gives them a bit more in-game lively-ness.

Ive hardly driven the cup car in GTR2 because it puts me to sleep! hence my surprise that so many want to do an endurance league in the g3 class  ??? I would have thought a sprint series would be more energetic at least?

I think the 911rsr is a great car to drive. It has loads of feel I would say. I ended up dropping the m3 for the 911, because although the m3 is potentially quicker, I find it dull and boring with little or no feel. Suprising the difference in peoples opinions.      I also don't understand the high demand for the cup cars. I really don't find any of them that much fun to drive.

Hopefully i will make it buy my pedals are on there last legs just constantly loosing calibration during racing reely dous my fruit in.
Looks like its time for a new wheel  :)

I'm out of this one again. The draw of st andrews and beer was too strong!

I wom't be able able to make this one, difficult circuit to drive quickly, and I simply havn't been able to do enough practice in a non ballested car....wouldn't want to accidently ruin anybody elses race.

It's a race primarily to test the circuit and get some data on the performance comparisons of the cars....It's not serious so the more the merrier IMO.

Well was defo going to race but the peds have given up the ghost so orded a g25 which hopefully arrives on wed,hope its a good race anyhoo catch you l8z  :-\

Stupid stupid game!!..Got a stop/go for leaving the grid on red, pitted end of lap one and i get a tire change, come out of pits team tells me to come in for stop/go so i go in and they just do a normal pitstop again. ::)
Love the track . ;D

Did you high light 'stop/go' on your pit clipboard and press return? If not, it might be this. :)

I didnt the first time but the pit crew told me to come in for the stop go so iwould have tough it would auto it...never had this prob before.
You could be right though mate. ;)

Hated every moment of that. Made up my mind that I will not be doing GT3 ever again.

30 minutes to go and my machine completely froze and bombed out, which never happens to me, so hope it's not the track. Had to hard power it off to get it going again. I'm glad anyway as it ended the torment for me.

Didn't like the track, quite dull to drive and the gravel traps are insane. It was nigh on impossible to get out of them in the 350Z even with a clutch pedal.

Errr, just the opposite what he said.  ;)  Of course, I had the Vertigo, didn't even try the 350Z. Brrrrrrrr, hate the Asian look of it.  :P
MORE RAIN, MORE RAIN !  ;D

TT

That was much fun.

I like the track, I love it in the wet though!

Started in my usual midfield/back position, and managed to work my way up to near the front - around 5th I beleive - and then the rain started, whcih I didn't expect, though about pitting straight away, filling the tank up and going to the end on Inters, but wasn't sure if the rain would last - so I stayed out.

Turns out, you can run on slicks in the rain quite well! Brilliant fun racing with a few folks, one unfortunate incident with Truetom I think it was, he misjudged my braking and gave me a dunt and we both spun and lost a bundle of time, but no serious damage done - and we could both continue.

I eventually found myself in the lead which pleased me (I think 2/3 infront had pitted), and at my scheduled stop I took on more fuel and some Intermediate Boots - managed to lose a bundle of time in the pitstop putting to much fuel in the car, wasting a few seconds - and stalling leaving the pits - so I lost around 10s in total.

Rejoined in ...8th place, got up to 7th when someone pitted, 6th when something else happened and 5th when spanner pitted (or something to that effect) - me and him battled until the end of the race, I had the position until I made a silly error and he got back past me and I ran out of time to catch and pass him again.

Still, much fun :D

 :( :( :(

I got pole....yep...me...you read it right....me, Psuedo....pole  ;D ;D

That was about the best of it though....I got the same stop n go as Dan....(my excuse, never been that far forward on the grid before....didn't have a clue where the lights were  ::))

Appologies to dan for the slightly dodgy start to. For some strange reason my pit limiter button didn't work so I couldn't engage it so I just tried to trundle along at 36 but it did waver a little.

Felt great in the dry...car was working super with the hot conditions. I started making some good inroads back through the pack...but when the rain came I started making a few errors so pitted a little early and came out on hard wets. Car worked great again with them and once again started picking one or two off.

Got to 7th in the end....could easily have been 6th but I got a little squeezed whilst overtaking that put a rear on the grass and round and round I went a few times....just managed to recover in time to stay ahead of the Bimmer of Dave.

No issues with the track whatso, either wet or dry.

Hopefully the data collected from this will mean we get a GT3 series with these cars....love it  ;D

Woops, that would've been me - sorry!

Shame, you me and spanner could've had a nice battle on the last few laps!

Replay and provisional results posted

In the dry ViperCC drives away from the Vertigo, though I had the 1-1 wing.  :(  In the wet it's the opposite.
I liked the race, came in 30 sec before Q2 ended, so no quali lap for me. Guess what, from zero to hero.  :P
Driving in the wet with 1-1 wing was surprisingly easy, even the first half with the slicks. With the hard wets it was almost like in the dry. Love the rain.  :wub:
Sorry to David Milne for the punt. Was caught out, my braking point was quite a few meters further.  :-\

After finish Freq hit me full speed. I flied upwards and landed on the roof. The car was (would be) a mess. And the guy said: "You've got a puncture!"  :lol:

Good result, Psuedo! I never got 2.12 even off line.  :thumbup2:

No probs Kidzer....I wouldn't have given the spot up easily either.  :)


Thank you very kindly  :)...I was a bit suprised at getting pole, I have seen Dan go faster in praccy and Gazza did a 2:11:5 in praccy (online)  :o

I loved that! Was great just racing purely for fun - no praccy in the car since S6 and never driven the track before about 8:15 - brilliant! ;D

The CC is great fun - crap through any corners but soo fast on the straight, it was almost embarrassing going past people on the backstraight ;D

Good race, rain came a little early for me and had to do a few extra laps on slicks when it was time for wets to make the fuel last, thought I could make it then TT came out of nowhere and went past me like I was standing still, after some silly passing down the straight ;D

I still think GT3 cup should be one make coss these cars are soo different - Viper CC whoop whoop!  8)

I was really worried about it being wet but somehow with the high temps, the lack of power and mainly long straights it ended up being good fun. I'm sure if i was in a diferent car though it might have been different!

At the start i joined with 30 secs to go checked the health, esc, rejoined then suddenly everyone is moving. i must have been lucky joining just in time. Then on the rolling start i seemed to be going faster than Simon with the limiter on! Clearly that was Pseudo's lack of pit limiter.

After a brief foray with few of the other Vertigos in first few laps the gaps started spreading out and realised the gap behind was growing so decided to try and just sit there. When practising the tyre temps have been pretty low in the cold conditions so when the rain came i knew i should be able to cope with front and rears dropping equally. I seemed to be holding my own in the wet conditions so just sat and waited hoping the rain would stop, I had fueled up as people seemed to do for the whole race so just needed a tyre change.

After a few mistakes and losing the lead(!) I thought i'd better pit with about 15 mins to go and again was unsure on the fuel setting. why isnt there a 'no change' setting? Set the fuel to about the same as what i thought i had in the tank and it seemed to work. Ended up coming out in 6th with Kidzer in front but my hard wets seemed to be better than his inters and caught right up to him straight away but i was being cautious and ended up dropping back. Luckily he drifted into a gravel trap and i finished in 5th.

Clearly the cars still need a bit of tweak to equal them all out, Z3 especially but i think maybe running a less biased track bight be in order. I would have said in the dry the viper was faster but in the wet the vertigo seemed to be better but its just my opinion.

If you set the fuel to less than you have they won't add any - that is if you have (default) set to fill it up to desired amount.  :)

One other thing I will say - the mirrors on the Vertigo are rubbish!

I usually manage to just use mirrors to make usre I'm not going to turn in on someone, but I used the look behind button quite a few times in this race just to be sure, there seems to be something about them that isn't quite right to me.

I had set it to pit once with 0 fuel in the setup, but when you pit it sets it to your original fuel setting which a few people have mentioned seems a bit strange. You cant set it up surely?

I usually set 3 stops all for zero fuel just in case I have to make an unscheduled stop. Doesn't excuse the game for it's failings in this area though.

I think we discovered recently that only the first stop setting actually works.

The Z3 felt really good in the dry, and whilst it didn't have good pace compared to the other cars I was slowly climbing the order as others made mistakes. Once the rain arrived I stayed out 2 laps too long and slipped behind Picnic's Z3, but despite being on the right tyres my pressures were far too high for the wet and towards the end I really struggled with rears which must've looked like bike tyres. :o

I like the balance of the car though, with a bit more power it could be a good underdog contender.