UKGTL Power and Glory v2 Mod Test - Laguna Seca - Feb 16

[Legzy]

As people are already discussing this...
So far I've been finding P&G little fun & incredibly hard, regardless of which cars have been available for selection. I've not been enjoying it much at all as it just feels like a hard slog to me. 40 minute races feel like Enduros, where I'm having to tip toe round for the majority of the race, just trying to keep on the black stuff. Any thoughts of competing with other drivers go straight out the window.

I know some people don't like the game because of the setup effort it takes, well that's not really my problem. I enjoy working on setups usually & consider myself not too bad at it now. I would probably say I even tinker too much with car setups in GTL & GTR2 as I'm happy doing it. Setups in P&G are different. No matter what I've tried, or who's setups I've downloaded, I still feel like I'm driving a car with square wheels. That's not adding to my enjoyment.

So far in the test races I've taken the:
Alfa @ Brno (Was OK, but should have been a blast in one of the best driving cars available surely)
E-Type @ Valencia (Hard work (& little fun) all the way, other then about 3 laps with MJ)
TR4 @ Donnington (TR4 was the best car to drive for me so far in P&G by a long way, I would even say I enjoyed this race )
906 @ Mid Ohio (I had nothing positive to say about this race at the time, so I kept quiet & said nothing in my race report)

I generally prefer driving "the neater cars" & as you can see it's not like I've been picking the hardest cars to drive. I just have not been good enough to even keep these cars on the track with any kind of  level of consistency! Basically, I feel like I can't drive the cars, therefore I'm not racing, therefore I'm not having fun.

I'm not looking to compare my times to Paul's, I'm aware of the difference between his level of driving ability to mine & that doesn't worry me in the slightest.

But maybe that hints at the problem? I could obviously be wrong, but it does seem to me that generally, the people getting the most enjoyment out of P&G are the faster drivers . Paul, Madd, MJ & Pribeiro are all regular podium finishers & all seem to be big fans of this Mod, while for a mid-order driver like me, all the fun has simply been removed at the expense of this new added 'realism'.

Just some thoughts that occured.

[FullMetalGasket]

Try giving the Abarths and Mini's a spin 
They are more 'normal' and drivable 
When I'm not hammering some Yank tank around sideways I always end up gravitating towards these as they're just so easy and so much fun 

I didn't make this as I had the G/F around, Didn't really miss much as you raced the same cars as last time effectivly. 
I'll deffinatly make an effort to appear when some decent muscle makes an appearence (or you just have a proper pick what you want race) 

[Truetom]

I defo had more fun with the Abarth than Alfa at Brno. Was sorry to find a server full after I had a freeze in P1. 

I find it much much more enjoyable than GTL (which I stopped playing 'cause setup options were too slim...  ), I just find I don't have enough time to get in it properly.  So it was all the more great to beat MJ at Mid Ohio. 

TT

[ginsters sponsored]

Thx for the feedback which good and bad is constructive and helpful

I agree with Paul about setups, for me its a few familiar tweaks and away I go. However, it does take time to get the best outta these cars and, with that very much in short supply, I have sympathy with those who couldn't get the best outta recent selections. I realise the Monday slot does rather crowd the calender as well.  With that very much in mind, the spec race next week should be more suitable and I urge you all to give the Elan a go. Its much more manageable than recent selections and I'll post my setup asap if it will help.

Also from next week the P & G races will be able to replicate UKGTL S7 as GTR2 versions of Hock, Zeltweg and Nords are available, which should help. I'm also toying with idea of having the same car choices for the final three tests so that we can all produce the right setup and put in the necessary driving time in the same cars to get the best outta them. I'm realising that the more time you put into this the more you get out and I'm lucky enough to have the time to do so presently whilst others are not. 

 

[Wiltshire Tony]

For me it's purely a matter of limited time. I like to thoroughly practise the chosen circuit for at least a week in advance (you wouldn't know it would you  ) and as I find P&G extremely dull, with little fun content I will always prefer GTL.
I might attend the odd P&G but probably only if there were no GTL to prepare for.

[Legzy]

I will certainly be giving the Elan a good go.

For me it's purely a matter of limited time. I like to thoroughly practise the chosen circuit for at least a week in advance (you wouldn't know it would you  ) and as I find P&G extremely dull, with little fun content I will always prefer GTL.
I might attend the odd P&G but probably only if there were no GTL to prepare for.

So if SBG does manage to marry up the GTL & P&G car/track choices, it would make P&G Mondays more attractive for me too 

[Paul968]

The 60s GTs are a lot easier to drive and there is a good selection to choose from. If you want a nice, well behaved car then the 275 GTB/C is perfect. The e-type is a bit tricky in comparison but offers a bit more tail-out excitement if that is your thing.

[dynosaur]

3) Set the dampers roughly in proportion to the spring rates

Paul, what does this mean? Says nothing to me, what is the right proportion? The others I can understand.

[Paul968]

Sorry, not very precise is it 

Basically, if the front springs are stronger than the rear springs I set then I set the front dampers higher than the rears. The values I start with normally depend on the default setup, but if the car feels sloppy then I tighten them up all round. Does that help?

[Madd-RIP]

I was going to say mid strength springs for mid rate dampers, so that's pretty much what you've said. 

The main reason that Paul is so quick is confidence, confidence in sliding the car, confidence in the line he takes, braking etc. If you feel comfortable in the car then the times will slowly come, fight it and you'll be nowhere.

I did use your setup Paul but it didn't suit the way I drive, it did however give me some things to think about and this is always helpful, Biasply not radial tyres were an inspired choice (better slip angles) and helped me greatly, thankyou.

I think I will post some setups for the Elan to help out the people who find time in short supply, I'll try to make it as stable as possible, ie friendly.

tbh most of the default setups are understeer hell imo and do not lend themselves to give players any confidence when trying the cars, the 275 and E-type ones are a case in point, horrendous understeer both in fast and slow corners, but with some judicious fettling I felt they were transformed in to rapid racers. (although you'll always have some understeer if you enter a corner too quick)

Paul has this annoying trait of just being quick (swine  ), much like Freq, Ruskus and others, I have to work more at getting good times by tweaking a car to be 'just so', but when I get that 'sweet spot' I can more than hold my own, I can slide tha car around and feel confident in what its doing, I'm not a good 911 racer in that I'm always concious of the back end spinning, but towards the end of last night's race I began to gain more confidence and subsequently enjoyed drifting the car more. Ade will agree with me there!

So to summarise I think we quicker lot should be encouraging those who request help more by helping them get a feel for the cars, I'm not saying we'll do all the work but a little bit of guidance will, I believe, work wonders in ensuring the longevity of this mod at SROU.

[paulwbird]

As a relative newcomer to GTL (2 months) and P&G (2 weeks) I think after last nights outing that I prefer P&G.  I would consider myself an experienced if steady sim racer, having raced GPL for many years and I wonder whether it is that experience that draws me towards P&G, the pain/reward ratio is probably similar;).  

I drove the 914 in last nights race, the only change I made to the default setup was to shorten the gearing of the top 3 cogs.  Car was prone to oversterr but by accelerating early I could 4 wheel drift through the faster corners.  I could also catch incidents before they happened all apart from a single off on the downhill part of the corkscrew.  

I find that the driveability of P&G over GTL with the limited feedback available from a computer and FFB wheel is better.  I'm happy to race either - not a great fan of racing the AI or some of the astonishingly poor behaviour seen in pickup races.

Diki Waza

[dynosaur]

Paul and Madd, thanks for the information, now I see the relation of springs and dampers and some other stuff. And it is very much true that many of the cars do not encourage me to drive them any more than a brief testing session because of the horrendous understeer. But now I can do (or at least try) something about it, thanks!

[Legzy]

I think I will post some setups for the Elan to help out the people who find time in short supply, I'll try to make it as stable as possible, ie friendly.

I do like doing my own setups rather then using other peoples, but I'm not getting anywhere on my own with this Mod & the setups I've previously downloaded didn't help me either... but I will defo download anything you upload for the Elan's Madd, it sounds like you drive a more straightforward style. Your help appreciated 

[Tibernius]

I do like doing my own setups rather then using other peoples, but I'm not getting anywhere on my own with this Mod

Same here. I've found I just can't set these cars up properly. I nicked Paul's 914 setup for the race.
I've found as long as I treat the P&G cars as completely different cars to the ones in GTL (which they are) I can get used to them. They just take a bit of practice.

[Mark J]

Adding to Madds suggestion, during last nights race i thought the same, that it might help greatly if a couple of the better drivers (or race engineers) amongst us started compiling some decent setups for the various cars as they go along. It would help initially in fast tracking more bods into the mod, or those that are struggling.
I personally dislike the default setups for most of the cars, but that only came about because in the first release everyone screamed that the cars were too hard to drive, so this time they dumbed them down to a more neutral wooden feel.

Paul, i tried your setup during qually last but it was too late for me to get a decent feel for it even though it felt pretty damn good to me. It turned in nicely, though a stiffer car will always catch out the unwary. I just didnt have enough laps available to get familiar with it, otherwise i think i would have bettered my laptimes. Watched your timetrial too....very cool. As i had suspected you are 'driving thru' corners that i am 'turning at'..if that makes sense? You have perfected the Porsche mantra of slow in/fast out in these classic old 911s