SimRacing.org.uk

All members welcome.

Grid/server capacity: 25

Practice: ~19:10 (60 mins)
Race 1 Qualifying: 20:10 (20 mins)
Race 1: 20:30 14 laps, then following shortly afterwards with reverse grid
Race 2: 14 laps

Track: Valencia Nacional

Cars allowed: Renault Clio Download this (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8338.msg147529#post_cliocup2008)

 
Time of Day Setting: 14:00
Weather: DRY
Start: STANDING
Tyre wear: Normal
Fuel consumption: Normal

Server: www.simracing.org.uk
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Notes:
(1) It's best if all drivers can make sure they are connected before the Qualifying session as drivers on track during qualifying will not see cars that join after they are on track until they go back to the garage.
(2) Please make sure you are fully aware of the SimRacing.org.uk Rules.
(3) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=283)

Special Notes: The grid procedure for Race 07 events is slightly different from GTL/GTR2. Upon joining the grid, you won't be able to rev your engine until all drivers are present on the grid. Do not attempt to esc back to garage or you will be DQ'd.

Hm, hm, I can see Season 4 is already set out with Clio :scooter: and Cats again. So, when do we get to race some real cars? :cowboy:
And how the :dots: do you set up a front powered car - any setups made?

I found the default setup pretty much good to go with the Clio, it just takes some time to adjust to front wheel steer/brake. I find slower in/faster out is the way to go, but that just might be me. When I recently did 10 or so laps around Brands Indy the only thing I adjusted was the Front toe-in. Actualy there isn't that much you can change.

Pretty much what Tony said.

I've done a lot of testing in these, but haven't really focussed much on setup as the defaults get me round ok. Things to tweak would be tyre choice (used slicks on one or both axles), diff preload, toe in and tyre temps. The fwd takes some getting used to, but I found that keeping it smooth and keeping traction is the key to finding time. I realised very early on that there's a point where pushing harder just made me slower.

As for the racing, I believe these Clios will provide even closer action than the cats.

Clios are more fun to drive than Caterhams, Goldtop os right, I have done a couple of races at RaceDepartment with Clios and both were stunning.
I'm with Truetom, some WTCC or GT (the slower ones) races were welcome.

Practice server is now up with no password and with 5 AI drivers. Server name is "www.simracing.org.uk"

This is a pre season test race, so please report any problems here. I'll upload my setup in the online files for those who fancy trying it.

Just to make sure we all see this :), GTR2/GTR Evo poll:
https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8637.0

Filefront mirror of the mod is down.

In FWD cars it's often an idea to have a positive toe number, to lessen the understeer at corner exit when on the throttle. I've been racing in the Honda WTCC car at s.nl, so I hope I can put some setup things from that into this.

Thanks Jeffrey, hadn't thought of that one. Maybe an idea for us to share some of our setups in the online facility so we can all try them and see which ones suit us.

I'll try to get some more online pracci later tonight after the GTL race (not sure if I can make that one atm).

I'll start the server right after the race tonight

I only recently noticed how few things can be changed in the Clio's setup. Therefore there will not be that much to seperate the drivers? So corner entry/exit will be crucial IMO. There are a couple of corners at this circuit that still fox me and I end up either braking way to early or go across the kitty litter.

I dont know whether to bother downloading this or not. FWD renault bean cans arent quite my thing plus as usual wedsnesdays is a tough day for me to be present for racing. Might just pass on this and see what the verdict is after your race.  :-\

That was my level of excitement for an FWD car, but as Jeff points out on that other thread, these "FWD" drive more like RWD... ;D
They seem good fun in the little driving I've done & should prove good for racing. (but what do I know :laugh:)

If you're free this Wed, give them a try, if not.... :-*

Err..this Clio mod is only 15.5mb ?  is that right? hmm, one might question the level of detail involved !  :beta1:

gonna try it but be amazed if i like it.

Having problems getting on the server ??? all i get is "host may be running an updated or modified game"

                                                            Any ideas, cheers Ade

Dunno, I just started the setup that was already in place.

I'll restart it now and see if that helps

Didn't restart as Goldtop and Ginsters are currently using it

Working now :) looks like it didnt like the cleo cup file inside the T2L folder in my install.


                                                           Cheers Ade

                                                               

I'm having the same problem.  :(

How did you sort it out Ade?

I just copy and pasted the Cleo_Cup folder out of the T2L_Addons so it  sits straight in your teams folder.

Thanks Ade. That worked.  :)

Had a go for 45mins tonight & got down to 1:27.4
It's not quite as good as my early go at Oulton led me to believe (a bit too understeery), but think the racing will be more fun than the practicing (which is how it should be).

So see you all tomorrow. :)


p.s. if anyone else is struggling to get rid of understeer, I found removing the rear toe, removing all the rear camber, removing the coast & inflating the rear tyres helped.

I'll be there tonight but only cause I want Race to be a success and cause its Tudor idea :angel: These cars feel inert and frankly dull to me, simply brake at the right points, turn and wait, wait, waiting, then boot. No sawing of steering wheel and room to experiment, ala Cats. 

That said, I'm hoping that tonight will prove me wrong. 

That's the bit I have a problem with ;)

Managed to eventually just scrape into 1:27s with very low fuel on the default setup just now online with a bunch of humans and ai on there, couple of them were 1:25's!!!  :o  So I guess thats what you fast boys will be at.

Hope I can make it later.

 ???

In real life they run alot of rear camber which should help make the rear looser.

It seems that everyone has their own way of getting these around. I was watching Matt last night as I know he races a fwd IRL, so I was interested to see his approach. Personally I found that keeping degrees of positive throttle throughout kept things a bit more alive and controllable, although it only slightly increased my laptimes.

I've stuck to the golden rule of mod testing here by using a standard Race 07 track. Unfortunately it's not the most inspiring track for this mod, but with everyone seemingly within 1 or so secs of each other, I'm hoping it will produce some good close racing.

Well I've got no idea about fwd/rwd in real life... But regardless of sim/car, in my mind, the bigger the rear camber number, the more resistance to getting your rear-end round... So more understeer & more difficult to get it round a corner.

I think the Clio starts on something like "-3" & I reduced the impact it was having by lowering to "-1.5" (which was as low as it would go).

Still, like I said, I know nothing :)

Tried this mod out last night and came to the same conclusion !  Dont get me wrong, its a well put together mod with very realistic looking models and decent cockpits and they look good out on track with a full grid, but boy are they dull to drive  :-X  Why would you want to sim race something that you probably wouldnt make an effort to watch even at a real race meeting? They are dead slow with tons of understeer, lame engine sounds and with no dynamics involved or feeling of hussling the car along.  :sleep1:
That said, what they will give you is probably very close racing and you should probably stick to small national/club layouts rather than a full GP circuit.
Not for me i'm afraid, though if im dead bored and the missus is working i still might turn up !  :P

surely we can race something more fun than this? The stock in-game car choices in Race/Evo have better options !

Motivation was lacking at start and completely gone after 2 laps. I truly, truly dislike this mod.

If its popular, hay ho, I'll cyu every other week.

I think I discoed at the end of lap2. Unfortunately it didn't give me much chance to evaluate the racing. Don't know if anyone experienced anything strange, but Ian drove straight through my car in the pitlane during quali ???.

                                          -------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                                                                         :-\

With so many negative comments about the Clios, I'm now doubting if we should continue with this series. It's a shame because I know there are some drivers who really enjoy these and, at the end of the day, it was the winning mod in our poll. The last thing I want to do is to push something through that isn't going to be popular, particularly at a time when this league is struggling for numbers. This was the whole idea behind having a poll in the first place.

Now that we've had a chance to test and race it, I suggest we use this thread to discuss the above and decide what we're going to do. I'll just go and fetch my crash helmet then  :angel:

Yes, I think I agree. :(
I'd only tried it at Oulton Island previously & I think with that track being so bumpy, it masked the dreadful dull understeery nature of this car. ::)

Is there a RWD default car that is the same pace (or even a little slower) that could go up against this Clio pile of carp? If there is, please can that be made an option in like a duel against the Clio? (FWD vs RWD series ;D) :-\

The cars look great, but offer no fun. Also, having a 2nd "equal" car might entice a couple more in?

Without a doubt the dullest, most dissatisfying race I've ever done (and I've been racing online since 2001). Saying the car is dull is like giving it a compliment. It is simply awful. Regardless of what I do to the very limited setup options, I get terminal understeer.

The most fun I had in race was was trying to thwart the cut police in that absolutely ridiculous chicane.
The only interesting part of race 2 was when JR and I played bumper cars with the AI. He was trying to entertain me by waiting for me when he got by. It would have worked, but in an effort to try to race him, the cut police got me. To further compound my frustration, I failed to serve my drive through because I'm not familiar with pit procedures in this sim. I somehow took a normal stop and then got a 2nd drive through so didn't see the point to run around the track by myself in this POS.

How about an MX5?
What was wrong with the GT3 Cup cars?

My first thoughts too actually Mike :) It's a nice drive and seems to be well made. I'd have to seek permission(s) though.

That's normal, to prevent wrecking in the pits :P .

Car is very dull and so was the racing :P. I said after the race that a season with this is going to be a mistake. I'm surprised to hear so many complaints, but the car won the poll  ??? .

Still don't know why the WTCC cars don't suffice. You are looking for FWD cars, or FWD vs RWD, which is already present in the WTCC cars. They are only slightly faster than these Clio's, but a lot more alive.

p.s. sorry to nsfast. I only get that corner spot on about once every 5 laps (usually I'm slow through it) & I was shocked at how you were ahead & the I was just ploughing into you on corner exit :o /  :-[

The detection there is quite leniant, however, it is completely wack. You can cut that chicane big time, however, going slightly wide at the first part gives a c/t  :-X . Key was to brake early, keep it tight and slam the chicane at the 2nd part.


Lol yeah, still don't see any use for the AI in these races. I just like slamming into the back or side of them :P

Just had a quick blast around Valencia in the MX5 and did a 1:29. It sounds like a possible option and might keep both camps happy. :yes:

I like the car, but the track killed it for me.

Sorry had to leave, something came up at home.  Don't mind the car, its just something different but I'd go with whatever.  The thing I do like is the lack of setup options makes it mostly down to the driver.

No problem Legzy.  :) It made for an interesting race working my way through the pack.

I actually enjoyed both races tonight, particularly the first one, where I had a close battle with Matt. :) However, I do agree that these cars are not the most interesting to drive.  

If we don't want to go for the Clio's maybe we could test race a few different mods/options every two weeks in between the Cats to see which one to go for ???

WEll. 1st thing. Top marks to Goldtop for trying stuff out, and everyone who joined in the test.
I concur that they are dull, I was quicker in them than I had thought I would be so that was nice  :D
The track was ok, but not interesting for these things. My biggest criticism of the cars is the lack of setup
options, my little 106 is wayyy more lively than these things, I tried all sorts to get some lift off oversteer
like a real one would have, but apart from loads of rear brake bias I could not make them squirm around
as they should. The more laps I did, the more I warmed to them though, required some precision, and
GT is right, holding some power on mid corner will pull the nose in, or at least is does for real...
Be interesting to try the ? what eye disease did Mike call them? myopia or something - MX5s
Not sure I remember voting for these, perhaps I did in a moment of foolishness..

Mazda Miata :P

Porsche cup, porsche cup ra ra ra   :)

Well... ;) Was a great and valid effort, Goldtop and I'm glad I don't stand out in not liking the mod.

Would like to go with the season as we did in GTR2: something "dodgy" for Sprint fun and something more serious powerful for the Endurance races. Since we already have the "dodgy" Cat series I'd like to replace Clio with GT Sport or GT Club class. Don't know how similar the cars are, though. Anyone done more laps with several in the class? Before we go for the mods it might be right to do some vanilla races. :D Except if mods are better, of course. :)

Me thinks people voted without actually trying out the mods

No one here, I hope, will ever moan at you for trying stuff Tudor so good on ya for last night. I'd like to try a few other things as well but ain't keen on dl'ing stuff all the time. Would it be an idea to try vanilla stuff and mods (even Evo(?)) every other week, Cats the other, for upcoming series? If we find ones that we all fall in love with then great, use them.

I'd vote to try a WTCC race next time out.

p.s. healthy turnout last night :)

+1
Lots of cars to chose from, FWD and RWD duel, allowing close races, and give me a break... it's a success for years out there in several communitys.
Why people still focused in a one make car races? Why don't we swap each week from one cup to another?

I agree with the concensus that these a dull to drive and also, unfortunately, dull to race. But, hey, you don't that until you try it.

It was certainly not a patch on the frenetic caterham race we had last week, where I needed a lie down afterwards. :)

I'm up for trying the stock WTCC cars for a test race - no downloads required there.

The one week I get 2nd twice and he doesn't do the results!  :laugh:
Oh, and didn't try any of the mods before voting, just voted what looked best. And although I aggree that
the Cats produced some good racing, I was on the verge of giving them up, as I could not get to grips
with the braking, and it was just becoming masochism, The WTCC cars on the other hand are..IMHO among
the best in any SImbin product, I used to love WTCC in Race07 more than GTL or GTR2

Might be ok for doing Cats and vanilla / any good mod tryout alternatively. :)

Thanks for the ideas 8)

There is already a poll in progress which could bring Evo content (GTs) here, so I'm keeping away from that. Porsche Supercup is cool and will be an option next time.

As WTCC seems popular....and because we now have limited time to arrange this........

We could still run the existing series using these tracks, but replace the Clio with stock WTCC 06 and 07 cars. It would in effect replicate the 2008 BTCC season (because the Clio Cup was one of the support races in this series). The cars are very similar although there would of course be a couple of cars missing (the Civic and the Vectra IIRC). Obviously there is a choice of fwd and rwd.

Is this a plan???

Yes it is unless you can find someone else to enter new data into LM2 for you  ;)

Sounds great GT 8)

Can I also suggest that we take last nights event out of the Championship, turn it into a fun/non-championship event. Leaving the rest exactly as is, to become the BTCC series.

Last nights race was a test race so no championship.

:thumbup1:

BTCC?...groan....Halfords go faster stripe brigade  ::) Again not for me. Will try out a few of the cars but cant see me liking them though a rwd model may entice if its not dog slow. Whats wrong with flipping GT classes? Particulary their version of GT3 series in Evo, those cars are great fun to race and should provide close racing.

But as others say, commend you on trying different formats and mods. If you do want the full up to date BTCC series, there are a few add-on mods to enhance it with some of the missing car models etc.  :)

Nothing, but for the immediate future, I believe GT cars (be it GTR2 / Evo / Race) are being kept for Sunday's, think of this as Race'07 non-GT's.
(I believe)

Not at the moment, I think we're going for some default racing for this series...
(I believe)

Cats are slow and fun. I'm with MJ, lets go for something. It's like you boys are afraid of Evo powerboats. :P

Might Sunday be GT's in EVO if the vote goes that way?


WTCC I believe. RWD beamer is great fun, if a little slower than FWD fags, if I remember right. Thumbs up for me.

C'mon MJ, at least I tried those horrid Clios before venting my spleen :) Maybe your driving style is better suited to FWD? :-*

  

i did try the clios, they were flipping boring !  :laugh:  not tried the saloon cars out yet but will do.

That's my understanding of what H@L's vote was.
My guess would be alternate weeks between GTR2 & Evo on Sunday's, as I would imagine there will be a fairly even split between all three options :-\... but I guess we'll know when the voting finishes & all is revealed 8)

Sorry to all for going  :offtopic:

Could somebody please confirm that the following drivers were AI cars:

• Bertrand Latour
• Bruno Cosin
• Jean-Philippe Lamic
• Jérôme Schneider
• Kevin van Heek

Thanks.

Yes Dave, those are the AI.