SimRacing.org.uk

Grid/server capacity: 28

Track: Monza '88 GP Download this (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3358.msg128898#post_monza88)

Cars allowed: BMW M1 Procar  Download this (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3358.msg54518#post_bmw_m1_procar), Required wheel fix Download this (http://www.mediafire.com/download/15g2qvay9m3fnb9/PROCAR_M1_WHEELS.GTL) and overwrite the original file found at GameData/Teams/GTC-TC-76/BMW M1 Procar.

Car choice restrictions: Championship Positions (CP) 1 to 5 - Procar, CP 6 to 10 - Gr.4., CP 11 and above, and new drivers - GTO.

Practice: ~19:20 (60 mins)
Qualifying: 20:20 (20 mins)
Race: 20:40 (26 laps)

Time of Day Setting: 16:00
Start: STANDING
Tyre wear: Normal
Fuel consumption: Normal

Server: simracing.org.uk Monday
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Notes:
(1) It's best if all drivers can make sure they are connected before the Qualifying session as drivers on track during qualifying will not see cars that join after they are on track until they go back to the garage.
(2) Please make sure you are fully aware of the SimRacing.org.uk Rules.
(3) The AI control should be turned off so that you have control of the car at all times, including pitting. Your player file should therefore read
Autopit="0"
Force Autopit Off="1" // Forces autopit always off
No AI Control="1" // AI never has control over car
If you still finding pitting problematic, experience tells us that its less to do with positioning and more to do with approach speed. A slow approach to pit crew chief has proved most reliable.

Special Notes: None

Drivers are advised to install the advanced setup mod. This will enable wing angle to be modified. Get the mod here http://www.mediafire.com/download/3hufvlu3k93egh3/Advanced_Setup.zip

Install three files (Game.dic, GTLOptions1.gtl and gtlui.mnu) into your folder called UIdata.

Some of the cuts are a bit mean at the chicanes so I will turn them off. Please remember to keep two wheels on tarmac at chicanes Gents. We will be watching for transgressors.

LOL  Just tried a few laps to make sure that I have the correct circuit and that the G4 car worked.

"keep 2 wheels on the tarmac" !!!!   said Tony!

At the chicanes I mostly have 4 wheels in the air!!     So if I can avoid actually landing on the grass...............maybe that will be OK??? Just got to hit that first kerb hard enough to reach escape velocity  ;)

Practiced a bit yesterday Tony, and did get the occational - and perfectly resonable cut warning at the first, double chicane.  None struck me as overly aggressive, as it was only when I had 4 wheels off the tarmac, so where specifically have you encountered problems ?

Cheers,
Erling

At the second part of Ascari (the left hander) you may use the off track area on the right hand side. I believe this was used in real racing.

I was getting a cut at Variante della Roggia on the RHS apex. I wasn't using much of the kerb but still received a cut warning.

If someone noticed the camber of Monza88 corners is wronged, in realty Monza corners have positive camber on this layout is negative specially on Lesmo2. The Parabolica corner is wronged not turn so !

Won't make today's race.  Just found out one of my old card/domino/billiards playing buddy's at the veteran's home passed away Friday night.  Going to a rememberence gathering this afternoon.  Put him in the ground Tuesday, another one of us old guys bites the dust......Have fun all.

Bob M   

Very sorry to hear that Bob. Please accept my condolances.  One of the true curses of getting older, is that you invariably end up losing people you care about  :'(

Regards,
Erling

Sorry Bob, i will drive for you also !!!

Sorry to read your news Bob.

Condolences Bob, as we get older so various family members, friends etc pass away.

My  RAF Apprentice "Entry", who joined in September 1955, were about 360 on joining and are now down to under 80 and only about 40 for the next reunion. The rest are not fully fit to travel to events too far from their home locality!  :wheelchair:

Old friends are special, as I know only too well.
Thoughts are with you Bob.

Results and replay now posted.

We can now confirm that third place in the Procar Championship is............

3rd - EvilClive  :thumbup1:

Grats to our Champion Erling and runner up Ziu.

Thanks to everyone who took part. The Procars are back in Season 18.

My win is for Bob.

First thing thanks to Tony on the wise decision to put off Stop & Go, after race i saw the replay and all us drove like Tony asked to us, keeping 2 wheels at least on the asphalt on the ESSES. It s just my personal but i think that it should be so every time, stop & go off always, and if we have some doubt there is the replay ! We are human and our judgment is rational, game judgement of game is systematic and often one risk to see ruined his race because game ! And the second point is that i believe on loyalty and respect among us. Yestarday in qualy i had some fast lap and i aborted one lap when i put 4 wheels on the gravel going out Lesmo2, on T2 i saw on XD -0,538 and i slow down.

About qualy the pole was under 1:52, i passed T2 with -0,377 but i made a stupid mistake on Parabolica pushing too soon the throttle, however i think that i had a good qualy, i beat the best lap of Altbierbude with these cars at Monza, so Tony now is sure that he organized a top championship, and Erling is sure to have won a great championship, Erling you deserved it !!!! But i m waiting Season 18 for rematch.

The race has been not easy, a pace under 1:53 was possible (my best on practice with stop & go on was 1:52,3 with race fuel) but when i saw the Goffers difficulties immediately since the start i decided to keep a cruise step, also because i could control Erling and Clive.
 I was surprised to see Geoffers with Procar and not with Gr4 but it s true also that among GTO Gr4 and Procar not there a big difference, i felt difference just at Monaco because weight when i could use GTO. In Facts i no have any problem to use always Procar on Season 18.
About setup i can say that also if Monza is a speed track because straights i build my performance on traction, here is very important going out of ESSES, so i worked on dampers and with gears. just i had a problem with engine, after 7 laps it was 47% on XD, and also with the front left tyre at 10 laps to go it  was very bad, i think because the corners camber here is negative. On practice i tried to invert the camber setup on my wheels  but i dont got any important change. I repeat that the layout of this track is wronged.

Thanks to Tony for the perfect organization, and thanks to Tony also for the nice idea to put this Series on Season 18.

Grats to Clive on third place championship.

I m sorry for Geoffers, it could be an other great battle between you and me but i m sure that in future we will have many opportunity for get fun.

Grats to Erling for the Championship and to Ziu for his terrific pace.

I t may sound ridiculous given my finishing position in this race and the championship, but I cannot say that I like these cars and always feel that I am struggling to control them and losing huge amounts of time whilst I wrestle with the steering wheel and the setup. Every braking point is a journey into the unknown and hitting the apex seems to be a lottery, then getting the power down is like treading on eggshells with the car determined to dive into the scenery with the slightest provocation.  I finish each lap ( of every circuit we have used ) feeling that I have thrown away a couple of seconds with poor driving.

My 3rd place in the race last night was purely down to the misfortune of others. I fluked a qually lap that had me on the front row alongside Ziu until the last moments and I was glad that Geoffers had pulled a faster lap together to push me back. I was seriously concerned about being so near the front and making a total mess of the first chicane, thus ruining the race for many drivers.
Imagine my unease when Geoffers bogged down off the grid and I was back on Ziu's tail going down to T1!!!! Boy, did I concentrate on my braking and my mirrors!! Erling was behind but not close enough to make a challenge and I held my breath until we were through the 2nd chicane and heading into Lesmos.

Once again Erling's demon braking would bring him very close on the entry to the corners and I was concerned that he would make a lunge down the inside somewhere.  Then I think he made a small mistake and Geoffers  was up into 3rd ( Ziu was already pulling away and there was just no way that I could hope to live with his pace ).

Geoffers was also better on the brakes and I think that my inability to get these cars stopped was causing him some problems in the corners and he came to grief after a couple of laps, I just hope that it was not my early braking that was the cause. Erling appeared to slip past the mess caused by Geoffers and was only a couple of seconds back and I tried to maintain the gap, but the inevitable happened as I was on the limit of my abilty to control the car and I outbraked myself.

Erling was on my tail and doing his magic braking act again at each corner!!! Again I tried and failed to keep him behind but got it wrong at Roggia and only just prevented the car from doing a 180, allowing him through.
"OK" I thought we'll follow Erling and see where and how he brakes..............good plan...............not!    The chasing pack was a long way back by now so I no cars to defend against.

Following Erling into corners and delaying my braking until I saw his tail lights come on was very scary, and I admit that my nerve broke and I just had to get on the stop pedal before he did. Even then the car was on the limit of adhesion as I turned in every time. Eventually I lost the rear end and almost spun losing valuable time. For many laps I found that I could just about match Erling's laptimes, but when I tried to close the gap it was too much and I just made more mistakes and slowly he pulled away.

By half race I had settled for 3rd place unless someone ahead made a big mistake and just tried to maintain concentration to the end. Like Ziu, I was shocked at how rapidly the engine health was dropping and eased up slightly for the last 5 laps.

Like I said at the outset, I was lucky to finish 3rd in this race and certainly extremely fortunate to find myself 3rd in the championship. If we are going to run these cars next season I doubt that I would finish so high unless I can get some of Erling's magic brake pads. ;)

Thanks to Tony for organising this series....although I have doubts over my abilities in these modern cars. The Capris next week are going to be another challenge I think  :-\

Thanks Tony, Ziu & Clive - and grats to Ziu & Clive for the other Championship cups.  In contrast to Clive, I absolutely love these cars and relish every opportunity to drive them.

Having bagged the Championship earlier, the goal of this race was to finish on a high; that is, not finish lower than in previous races.  That meant a 2nd place at the least.  Prospect for this looked bleak in qual. Ziu & Mr. Oh-I'm-no-alien-these-tentacles-are-perfectly-human-Geoffers  :alien:  ;D were clearly in a class of their own, doing low 52's. I struggled hard just to dip into the 53's, and despite shaving 0.3 sec off my best, Clive was still ½ a sec faster.

These cars are among the few in GTL that I can actually do a decent start in from time to time.  A little slow off the line, but managed not to bog down - that is, until Geoffers did, and I hesitated ever so slightly, promptly causing my car to bog down too. Surprisingly I wasn't swamped by everyone behind, but instead managed to maneuver around Geoffers.  He was soon on my case, making a move at Parabolica on L1.  I left the door too open and he slipped through.  Gave chase and got close at one point, but as always had problems being too close to the driver in front, running wide at Ascari.  That gave Geoffers a gap of around 1.5 secs, but then he spun at Roggia, handing me 3rd.

Fully expected Geoffers to come storming back, but to my surprise, the pit board showed a 16-sec gap, which didn't get smaller the following laps.  Didn't know at the time that Geoffers had gone off again, losing more time and positions.  Could focus on chasing Clive then. Slowly got closer, until he ran wide at Ascari.  Ran partially wide myself, so couldn't exploit it to the full. Got real close though, and when he had a wobbly moment at Roggia, losing momentum and leaving the door wide open, I slipped past.  Pressure on me then, but slowly extended the gap, and some laps later Clive had a moment at Ascari, dropping back and all but slipping from view.

Quite lonely race from then.  For some reason, the pit board would only show the (ever increasing) gap to Ziu in front.  Thus had no idea whether Clive was gaining on me or not.  Didn't dare get complacent, so kept pushing to the end, while trying to stay on the safe side of the limits.   Held to the end and very happy to bag 2nd. Mission accomplished!!  Grats to Ziu on the win & Clive for 3rd.  Commiserations to Geoffers, whose true place would at least have been 2nd.

Regarding braking Clive; I really don't see myself as a wizard in any way.  Not sure why you're struggling so much with these cars (but you were still faster than me in both qual & race; don't forget that!!).  You know more about setting up cars than me, so doubt I can teach you anything in that regard.  The 'tricks' I use to make the cars more stable under braking, are no doubt well known to you already.  Believe I have mentioned it earlier in the series, but a fairly light touch of the brake pedal often seems the most effective way to go. Yesterday, I would hit the pedal hard initially, and then ease the pressure some, occasionally pumping the pedal slightly.

Thanks to Tony for putting together this excellent series; already looking forward to the return in 2018!  :)

Cheers,
Erling

Geoffers is arrived to take  Erling  (http://www.vocinelweb.it/faccine/alieni/42.gif)


 (http://www.vocinelweb.it/faccine/biggrin/pag2/43.gif)      (http://www.vocinelweb.it/faccine/biggrin/pag2/62.gif)

 ;D ;D   Nice smileys Ziu  :)

Brilliant  :lol: :clap:

Oh dear, I didn't cover myself in glory last night  :(

1st lap I was caught out by Jeep's earlier than expected braking for the chicane and tapped him. Fortunately he corrected and continued whilst I did a slow 360 as the remainder of the grid passed by. Managed to retake a few guys before reaching Jeep again. Spent many, many laps reeling him in, only to completely cods up final prelude to the pass. Hit him up the chuff so many times, all accidental (of course) but made me look like a complete tool. In the end I let him go so he wouldn't see my embarrassment in his mirrors.
BTW Roguk had brake lights on, on the straights. Maybe a pedal config problem Rog?

Thanks to everyone who took part in this series. Possibly my favourite series of the season.

First condolences to Bob, always difficult losing a good friend.


To be fair Erling, that was the only lap I managed in the 1.52s, nearly a second quicker than my next best. I was struggling with this car as I had driven the Gp4 one in most previous races & only got a decent setup for that at Zandvoort. I thought it would just be a case of replicating that setup on the Procar, err no...... nearly undriveable, would not turn in & was either understeer or oversteer with the power on & little in between. Worked on it during practice & qually & got a car that was decent but still far from one I could attack the course with. With more work I think, like Ziu said, 1.51s are achievable.

The race went pretty much as I expected, except for bogging down off the line, that wasn't in the script. Put in a few good early laps & then lost it in one of the chicanes by trying too hard, then did the same on 3 or 4 more occasions trying to catch up, so gave up & went & beamed down a beer from my spaceship had a beer.

Like Clive I have never really enjoyed these cars, always seem to be on the edge of throwing it into the weeds. But then I don't get on too well with most of the 70s cars, much prefer the slidey around 60s stuff. I think I try to make the 70s cars handle like & drive them like the 60s cars & it doesn't work.

Congrats to Ziu, Erling & Clive on the podium & Erling on winning the series.  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

LOL!!!!  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Hi Geoffers, about lap time on qualy I can confirm that is possible make 1:51 with Procar because on Altbierbude lap record with BMW Gr4 is 1:51,2. I think that my best with Procar could be 1:51,6 !!! Just you can  imagine what lap time with BMW GTO  ;D

Results (https://www.avonrise.co.uk/srou/kurts/Monza88 21112016)

8)

Glorious last place in this championship for me ??? ::)

Good quali but a lousy and short race. This time I made one important mistake concerning my setup: I lowered the rev limit about 200 rpm,
so I was unable to pass on the straights  :-\ . But with this setup quali was very satisfying. So I didn't expect that kind of consequences.

Thanks to all involved in organizing this series. Grats to the podium and grats to Erling for the championship (another one for GTLDK)

Thank you for doing the results Kurt, much appreciated.  :thumbup1:

Well, A race riddled with mistakes and getting in Tony's way for me. I had been managing laps in the high 1:54's during practice but was definitely off colour during Q and could only get into the low 1:56's so lined up 6th on the grid. I seem completely unable to get these things stopped under any semblance of control so devised a slow in fast out line through the chicanes and Ascari which was not what anyone behind wanted.

Got off the line well but had to back out of the throttle as Geoffers bogged down and Erling had to ease off as well. Passed Eifelblitz who seemed to get caught up in the pack. Thought the 1st chicane might be a bit busy so eased off on the approach a bit early and was rewarded by a punt from behind by Tony who was obviously caught out by my early braking point. Spun through a complete 360 and continued on my merry way not losing position in the process and set off after the 4 in front but minus 1 rear light cluster. Had complete brain failure approaching the Parabolica, missed my braking point on cold tyres and went off into the sand trap and lost 2 places before rejoining so was 7th and spitting feathers in frustration at my lack of concentration by the end of the 1st lap.

Caught Eifelblitz and Bill during the next lap and watched as they traded paint throughout the lap, onto lap 3 and they had a coming together at the 1st chicane but both rejoining still in front of me. I had a better exit though and passed Eifelblitz on the run down to the next chicane and got a better exit than bill out of Lesmo2 so passed on the run down to Ascari.  By this time I was well adrift of the front 4 though so was really surprised a lap or so later when I found myself behind Geoffers who had obviously had a moment somewhere. He then put a wheel on the grass on the approach to Ascari and piled into the tyres so I was up to 4th with Tony closing from behind. Managed to respond and maintain the gap only to spin at the Parabolica again when I went from 5th to 1st instead of 3rd. Managed to keep it on the tarmac though so at least stayed ahead of the now very close Tony and Geoffers. Next lap and a lack of concentration into the 1st chicane and another spin. This time Tony was through and Geoffers right up my chuff. Tony made a mistake in the next chicane and I re passed him on the run down to Lesmo1

Geoffers was the next to be caught out by my conservative braking point and gave me a tap on the entry to the 2nd chicane leading onto the approach to Lesmo1 upsetting the car a little but managed to stay ahead. Then Geoffers was replaced by Tony in my mirrors and we both went off into Ascari. We then circulated close together for quite a few laps, Tony catching me at every braking point and me getting a better exit from the chicanes and Lesmo's to pull out a small gap. Eventually though a few mistakes and he was right with me and I couldn't shake him. Then of course the inevitable happened and we had another coming together in the 1st chicane. Looking at the replay though I do think Tony left hitting the brakes a bit late so this one wasn't all down to me and my unique approach. :)

Tony dropped back afterwards, I thought planning to mount a further attack in a few laps but saw the gap slowly extend throughout the remainder of the race so I came home a safe 4th at least still on the lead lap. Looking at my lap times and factoring in the various mistakes even if I had managed a clean race it would not of moved me up any positions as the front 3 were a class apart tonight. Congrats to Ziu, Erling and Clive for the Podium.

I've really enjoyed these. My chicanes definitely need some work though, I'm much better on the faster sweeping tracks in these like Zeltweg.

Glad we will be seeing them again in the future. Thanks Tony for a great series, these are up there with the 50's cars as far as enjoyment goes for me.

TTFN
John.

Just as a late farewell to this series: M1 Procar on the old Nurburgring:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iFA_LSmaY4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iFA_LSmaY4)

 8)

Hi Tony yes my G25 peddles have been playing up for some time, been cleaning them so often have left the case off used Halfords electrical cleaner good but drys out rapidly, swapped the clutch pot to the throttle about a year ago, new pots of the correct type seem impossible to get so now going to look into getting some Hall sensors.

A BIG Thank you Tony for all the work and time you put in so we can enjoy racing GTL.

Happy Christmas and a Great New Year to everyone at UKGTL.