Tokens discussion

[Simon Gymer]

I can't remember whether we used to do this or not, but I have a vague recollection of running multiple servers on the same box. Is it technically still possible to do this (to accomodate more people)? Division 1 and Division 2 (let's call them for the sake of argument). Or were they run on separate nights/times?

I suspect the answer from the mods should be that no matter what technical issues there are tokens must be taken off everyone at each race. It's all automated and what's to stop someone claiming technical issue when they have not.

I would like my tokens back for last night too cause my PC froze causing my car to die. But that's just the way the cookie crumbles. Tokens make the taste more bitter in these situations imho.

[Paul968]

I think there is a case for saying that if you don't get off the grid then you get the average tokens (because people often get a disco on the grid). The trouble is, sometimes you will gain from this and sometimes you will lose (whether you took more or less than the average number of tokens).

Now that the scoring system has been made more linear, one suggestion I have is that we could say that if you don't finish the race then you lose either the average number of tokens or the cost of the car, whichever is the lesser. This way you can't lose out due to technical problems. The new scoring system will mean that a dnf is going to seriously hamper your chances in the championship, regardless of tokens.

[Legzy]

Sorry Chris... what will be the amount of Tokens that you will cut off to me and Icarus, considering that he hasn't started the race and that I run maybe for a hundred meters before I was able to push esc button due to my 0 frame rate?

I'll let you answer your own question:

Chris, it doesn't really make sense to charge people the average if they don't score a point. It should only be if they don't start the race.

I Totally agree with you Paul... It's seems a double penalty... If I don't score any points in a race cause of a slower choice, I' ve just lost a race. If you cut me 7 points it would be difficult to have some different strategies during the subsequent races.
I think that's right to cut the average amount if somone not attend the race. But if I want to save some tokens for mine strategic choice it's not necessary cut me 7 points in my case... That would penalize all strategies about the people that got less tokens, eliminating all the chances of different strategies in every race. That's my opinion... is it rubbish?!?!

Many people (including yourself) were of the opinion that; "if you do show up but fail to score a point it's not right to be charged the average, you should be charged the amount your chosen car cost". Because that was such a popular opinion, that was why we dropped my suggested rule about being charged your average tokens if you failed to score any points.

So you will be charged nine tokens for choosing the L88 Roadster.
While Icarus will be charged nineteen tokens for choosing the GT40 Gulf.
And Bill will be charged twelve tokens for his Elan.

It's the same rule for all 

[Legzy]

I think there is a case for saying that if you don't get off the grid then you get the average tokens (because people often get a disco on the grid). The trouble is, sometimes you will gain from this and sometimes you will lose (whether you took more or less than the average number of tokens).

Lucky that we made the rules beyond any doubt about this kind of situation.

Now that the scoring system has been made more linear, one suggestion I have is that we could say that if you don't finish the race then you lose either the average number of tokens or the cost of the car, whichever is the lesser. This way you can't lose out due to technical problems. The new scoring system will mean that a dnf is going to seriously hamper your chances in the championship, regardless of tokens.

Nope. Totally oppose it & don't care who thinks other wise. I want no part in "grey areas". If you're connected to the server when it clicks over to race, you'll be charged the amount of tokens your chosen car costs. The end.

[Paul968]

Fair enough, it's your show    Just looking for ways to keep the majority happy while keeping the system fair. Not sure why you think the 2nd suggestion would be a grey area though?

[Jeffrey]

So what did I lose, 7 points?

[Legzy]

Now that the scoring system has been made more linear, one suggestion I have is that we could say that if you don't finish the race then you lose either the average number of tokens or the cost of the car, whichever is the lesser. This way you can't lose out due to technical problems. The new scoring system will mean that a dnf is going to seriously hamper your chances in the championship, regardless of tokens.

Nope. Totally oppose it & don't care who thinks other wise. I want no part in "grey areas". If you're connected to the server when it clicks over to race, you'll be charged the amount of tokens your chosen car costs. The end.

Not sure why you think the 2nd suggestion would be a grey area though?

I had a garbage race last night. But I kept going to the bitter end to get the best out of my token spend. If I'd been in the 906-8 in those circumstances I'd have pressed Esc, claimed technical difficulties & been charged eleven tokens credits instead of the correct twenty tokens. Grey.
If a rule is simple, there is no doubt. More frustration will come from doubt then certainty.

[Legzy]

So what did I lose, 7 points?

Like I said to Burtoner, basically, if someone doesn't race (for what ever reason that may be), they lose their average number of tokens (i.e. I had 77 tokens for the season, so I would  have lost 11 tokens for not racing).

In your case Jeff, as you have not got an official tokens budget yet (because you've not competed in a UKPnG Clubmans event), you have not really lost any tokens. Assume you've got about 39 for the remaining season Jeff, but like I said, after your first race I may boost or reduce that total.

[Manteos]

Chris, you are the Commander, but I totally disagree in the case of Icarus... If someone can't join the start due to a disonnection trouble it seems strange and totally unfair to charge the full amount of tokens... I see it in that way... As you can see by the race report Icarus result DQ, he hasn't started the race at all, and it's not right to charge him 19 points for a disconnection before the start. It's not the first time it happens, it's just happened to Pippomox the previous race, I think that this should be the only right reason to avoid removing the entire amount of Tokens, and the rule could be changed in that way.
I could agree in my case and for Bill Thomas, because we joined the start, he broke his suspention, and I had no frames but I moved from my place and started the race. Anyway I remain of my opinion that if the report says DQ due to a disconnection, it's not a driver's fault...
You know that I'm not afraid to say what's my thinking, and I will be always honest with you, but this rule it's rubbish if applied in that way. Should be fair enough to a DQ driver removing only the average amount of tokens for the race, and i hope you would reconsider that thing...
That's all... I wait for your opinions!
Cu

 

[pribeiro]

I had a garbage race last night. But I kept going to the bitter end to get the best out of my token spend. If I'd been in the 906-8 in those circumstances I'd have pressed Esc, claimed technical difficulties & been charged eleven tokens credits instead of the correct twenty tokens. Grey.
If a rule is simple, there is no doubt. More frustration will come from doubt then certainty.

I agree!

[goldtop]

However annoying technical issues might be, I always try to remain philosophical about them. I just accept them as mechanical/electrical failure which after all happens all the time in real world racing. A real PIA at times, but one rule for all and we all know where we stand (or fall).

Just my opinion

[pribeiro]

We are using internet connection, therefore we all can have some disconnection problems.
In my personal case, I had have it for almost 3 weeks (discos, lag which made me quit at 1st lap,
not been able to connect before race starts, etc...) and I had to live with it, not being allowed
to repeat the race. We have to live with it as a some kind of real life problem with car.
I believe that we can accept that as a virtual technical issue.
In fact, I agree with goldtop .
My humble opinion.

[Simon Gymer]

Some other opinions?

How do you prevent abuse by someone that hasn't managed to qualify well in a car that uses a lot of tokens? They could easily pull out their network cable on the grid or just before the grid and get DQ'd or disco'd before the start to avoid wasting their tokens.

I'm afraid this is just one of the many problems with the token system and we all have to put up with it until the organisers see sense and we get back to racing on the track instead of in the car selection screen.

[Wiltshire Tony]

I would hope that judgement could be defered until the end of this trial season.

[Paul968]

Do you ever stop moaning Simon?