SimRacing.org.uk

The next race for the GT's will be at Rouen les Essarts one of the original Papyrus tracks and should provide a different challenge to the open plains of Reims. Stopping the 2 tonne monsters at the bottom of the hill should be interesting..

We have the usual permanent teams and the Black and White temporary places.

SO, ANYONE WANTING TO TAKE UP ANY OF THE PLACES IN THE BLACK AND WHITE TEAMS FOR THE ROUEN RACE SHOULD POST HERE .

PLACES WILL BE ALLOCATED,  AS BEFORE , IN ORDER OF POSTING ON THIS THREAD.



The next race in the short GT series is at ROUEN ( Papyrus original circuit)

date:-     11th Feb 2011

time:-     9:00 p.m.  UK local time

where:-   UKGPL chatroom in IGOR ( password for chat "savage")

Race Length:-  30 laps

Server password:-     vin


Qualification will be 20minutes starting at 9:00 p.m. Please do not leave the pits until 20 minutes is left on countdown timer. This is to allow all competitors to join the server.

The current permanent teams are.

Blue Team         Blue Team cars
Nicky Ickx             Ferrari
Paul Badblood        Ferrari
Lupo Minaro          Ferrari

Red Team              Red Team cars
Pod Zuitek                Chapp 2F
Ronnie Peterson         Porsche
Blito                         Lola

Green Team       Green Team cars
Phil Thornton            Lola
Evilclive                   Ford MK1
Francesco                Ferrari

Orange Team        Orange Team cars
Goran Jonsson           Lola
Hristo Itchov            Chapp 2F
Happy Al                  Mirage

Drivers are permitted to switch between the 3 available team cars race by race.

There are 2 further teams available for "part time" drivers although these could be converted to a Permanent Team, if 3 drivers can commit to attending all races.
To guarantee yourself a drive in the White or Black Teams you will need to post your intention to drive below before midnight on Thursday and places will be allocated in the order in which the cars are listed.


      White Team cars available for hire
1st applicant      Ford Mk1       STEVE BIRD        
2nd applicant      Ferrari           SAMB                
3rd applicant      Chapp 2D       COOKIE                      

      Black Team cars available for hire
4th applicant      Mirage            FULVIO                  
5th applicant      Chapp 2F        JHALLI              
6th applicant      Porsche          MARTIN HUNT  

There is space for a single Privateer wildcard entrant if all other places are filled in a..........Chapp 2D..............PEDRO de BERG

Rules:-
To score points you must complete the race. No finish= NoPoints
Each driver is permitted a SINGLE  "SHIFT-R" per race regardless of fault, which must be followed by a Stop'nGo in the Pitlane within 2 laps, or the driver will be DQ'd.

As I took a shift-r on the last lap at Reims should I take a Sng in the first two at Rouen? Way its going I'll need to anyway ;)

ill take my chap2f in Black team ,same as last race if that okay ?



Juha

I will take the Chapp 2D in white team, if this is ok.

Hope not to make such newbie crap as in Reims again  ::)


Axel  aka Cookie

I can drive this week, not sure how this works now; should I take the Mk1 in white team?

If Steve and Cookie have taken places in the White Team, then may I drive the Ferrari? Might have to have a chat with Fulvio to see if he'd prefer to resume services in the Ferrari.

Go ahead Sam, I'll take the Mirage in Black team :)

Clive and Goran,
T7 server is ready Listening on Igor for a 30 laps IntLong race.
Ciao

I'd like to try the black spot, and try to survive in the Porsche. 8)

I notice on GPLRank that the current World Record has been set in a Porsche.

I expect they got my name wrong! ::)

This GT Team series now has an extra race!!

 Friday  11th Feb 30 lap race at Rouen

 Friday 18th Feb 35 lap race at Monza ...( original papyrus circuit)  with single Shift-R allowed.

EXTRA RACE...

 Friday 25th Feb 35 lap race at Monza...( original Papyrus circuit )  PRO RULES  NO SHIFT-R

 

Why make the 2nd Monza part of the series? Imo it shouldn't count for the final standings, but make it be just a separate test for the Pro damage.

'Cos its the only way we might catch the Oranges H  :laugh:

TBH that's what I had in mind when I suggested it i.e. simply a test for PRO damage.  It doesn't really matter though does it?  It is only a fun series and drivers can interpret the results as they wish.  However what IS important is ensuring a good turn out.  Ideally we would want exactly the same drivers in exactly the same cars to make the comparison "scientific".

Incidentally, i always practise on "realistic" damage ( i assume gem+ "realistic" is the same as GPL`s "pro").
Not had a single mechanical failure in hours and hours of GT that wasnt my own stupid fault! But i have had plenty of those :D

Someone called me ;)

I will be in the chatroom friday, so we can see if I may or can drive ..........ok?
 

UNLESS ONE OF THE DRIVERS FROM THE REGULAR TEAMS DROPS OUT WE NOW HAVE A FULL 19 CAR GRID.

I SPEAK FROM BITTER EXPERIENCE WHEN I SAY ..."PLEASE BE CAREFUL INTO THE HAIRPIN ON LAP 1"

Just so you've seen it, the forum may be significantly disrupted tomorrow so get your information that you might want now and don't panic if you cant get on the forum again for a while.  :)

Clive, the OP says the password will be on the forum 24H before race, not hinting, just wanted to check if there is one as I can't see it?  Am I being dozy?

 :)

Where are the current points standings posted?

H, it's on this table published in the last race thread:

 (http://img147.imagevenue.com/loc587/th_19974_GTresults_122_587lo.jpg) (http://img147.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=19974_GTresults_122_587lo.jpg)

 :)

Thanks, but how come I'm missing from the Orange team.  ;D

Actually you are not missing from the Orange Team Hristo.

If you look just to the left of the Reims race you will see your initials ( HI) against the car that you were driving.

I could extend the size of the spreadsheet and type everyone's name in full but as this is a fun series, and more about testing the format than magnificent data recording I went for the easy option.

No, you are not being dozy...I am!!

Password tonight will be    " vin "

Ah, I got it. I was looking at the team drivers on the far left and Fulvio written there.

.... and its another early bath for me....

somehoe i avoided the startline pileup and settled in to a very comfortable run in about 7th place...
then after 20 mins the Lola`s engine blew without warning... and this despite my taking it easy and looking after the car!  1 reset and stop/go later and i`m in a comfy tenth.. then at about 35 mins in i think i fell asleep!!!!  ended up on the roof at neuveau monde and not knowing how i got there!!!



on a serious note, i think this fun series is proving very useful at finding out what works and what doesnt for GT racing.... and for me 1 hour races DONT work and neither does the 1 shift+r rule!   


cy`all at Monza for more crushing disappointment....!

I suspect that the server has "lost" all but 5 or 6 drivers in this race.

Prib showed me as being a lap down after Six Freres on the 1 st lap..I may be slow but not THAT slow!!! Other cars seemed to be showing up in strange places on my prib readout, unless it was just me??

When I quit to Igor about half way Igor showed only 5 cars in the race??? yet I know that there were more cars on track than that.

This race might take some sorting out :-\

Prib was OK for me, but it did show you as a lap down.

I was annoyed at myself.... AGAIN. First restart was racing pretty much by myself, a few other people where around by they got past quite quickly. Then I found M Hunt in the middle of the track going very slowly in the fast right hander just before the stop. He was on the inside of the corner, so I tried to go outside, but I think we tried to give me the inside and drifted out. I hit him and ended up in a tree. 

After that I was racing by myself and I lost it going into the hairpin, stuck on a polo. Game over :( real shame as I was driving within myself and was trying to get to the end.

i feel your pain buddy......

Track: Rouen             Fri Feb 11 23:34:24 2011

PRACTICE TIMES

Pos No Driver                           Team     Nat      Time      Diff Laps
 1   2 Hristo ItchovGT                  Chap 2F  JPN 1m58.594s             10
 2  15 Sam Blood                        Ferrari  GBR 2m00.700s   02.106s    6
 3  38 Juha HalliGT                     Chap 2F  FIN 2m01.201s   02.607s    6
 4  20 Göran JonssonGT                  Lola T70 SWE 2m03.175s   04.581s    7
 5  14 BartoszGT Antoszczyszy           Chap 2F  MON 2m04.229s   05.635s   11
 6  11 Nicky Ickx GT                    Ferrari  VEN 2m04.462s   05.868s    4
 7   7 Pedro Berg_vd                    Ferrari  HOL 2m04.534s   05.940s    6
 8  25 Martin_GT Hunt                   Porsche  USA 2m05.168s   06.574s    7
 9  57  EvilGT                          GT40 MkI GBR 2m05.406s   06.812s    9
10  24 Phil ThorntonGT                  Lola T70 GBR 2m05.577s   06.983s    7
11  37 Zachariah Blito                  Lola T70 GBR 2m05.633s   07.039s    6
12  18 Ronnie Peterson                  Porsche  ITA 2m06.011s   07.417s    7
13  39 Sport Cookie                     Chap 2D  GER 2m06.451s   07.857s    8
14  21 franGT Molteni                   Ferrari  ITA 2m07.729s   09.135s    7
15  16 Alastair BaldwinGT               Mirage   GBR 2m08.814s   10.220s    7
16   6 Fulvio Policardi-GT              Mirage   ITA 2m09.455s   10.861s    1
17   1 steve birdgt                     GT40 MkI GBR 2m09.462s   10.868s    7
18  12 Paul Whitfield GT                Ferrari  GBR 2m10.999s   12.405s    7
19  27 2 UKGPL_T7                       Lola T70 ITA   No time   No time    0
20   5 Fulvio Policardi-GT              Mirage   ITA   No time   No time    0

All times are official
Generated with GPL Replay Analyser


Track: Rouen             Fri Feb 11 23:34:24 2011

RACE RESULTS (After 30 laps)

Pos No Driver                          Team     Nat Laps   Race Time       Diff    Problem
 1   2 Hristo ItchovGT                 Chap 2F  JPN   30  60m44.670s           
 2  38 Juha HalliGT                    Chap 2F  FIN   30  62m22.630s  1m37.960s
 3  20 Göran JonssonGT                 Lola T70 SWE   29  61m15.107s   1 lap(s)
 4   7 Pedro Berg_vd                   Ferrari  HOL   29  61m17.331s   1 lap(s)
 5  11 Nicky Ickx GT                   Ferrari  VEN   29  61m27.307s   1 lap(s)
 6  15 Sam Blood                       Ferrari  GBR   29  61m48.699s   1 lap(s)
 7  14 BartoszGT Antoszczyszy          Chap 2F  MON   29  62m42.181s   1 lap(s)
 8  21 franGT Molteni                  Ferrari  ITA   28  61m50.967s   2 lap(s)
 9  24 Phil ThorntonGT                 Lola T70 GBR   28  61m51.343s   2 lap(s)
10   1 steve birdgt                    GT40 MkI GBR   27  60m49.305s   3 lap(s)
11  39 Sport Cookie                    Chap 2D  GER   27  62m30.605s   3 lap(s)
12  16 Alastair BaldwinGT              Mirage   GBR   18  41m07.313s  12 lap(s)
13   6 Fulvio Policardi-GT             Mirage   ITA   17  37m02.460s  13 lap(s)
14  37 Zachariah Blito                 Lola T70 GBR   15  33m27.857s  15 lap(s)
15  57  EvilGT                         GT40 MkI GBR   14  34m07.035s  16 lap(s) uld be DQ)
16  18 Ronnie Peterson                 Porsche  ITA    8  18m33.692s  22 lap(s)
17  25 Martin_GT Hunt                  Porsche  USA    7  15m48.875s  23 lap(s)
18  12 Paul Whitfield GT               Ferrari  GBR    6  15m26.401s  24 lap(s)
19   5 Fulvio Policardi-GT             Mirage   ITA    0 DidNotStart  30 lap(s)
20  27 2 UKGPL_T7                      Lola T70 ITA    0 DidNotStart  30 lap(s)


Race results are unofficial
(Replay might have been saved before end of race)

RACE FASTEST LAPS

Pos Driver                                 Time Lap
 1  Hristo ItchovGT                   1m59.029s  28
 2  Juha HalliGT                      2m01.224s  26
 3  Sam Blood                         2m02.677s   9
 4  Pedro Berg_vd                     2m03.144s  26
 5  Fulvio Policardi-GT               2m04.368s  17
 6  Göran JonssonGT                   2m04.371s  27
 7  BartoszGT Antoszczyszy            2m04.382s  26
 8  Nicky Ickx GT                     2m04.521s  29
 9  Phil ThorntonGT                   2m05.933s  19
10  Sport Cookie                      2m07.242s  14
11  Ronnie Peterson                   2m07.322s   4
12  franGT Molteni                    2m07.578s  26
13  Martin_GT Hunt                    2m07.842s   4
14  steve birdgt                      2m07.955s  14
15   EvilGT                           2m08.345s  12
16  Zachariah Blito                   2m08.683s   6
17  Alastair BaldwinGT                2m10.446s  18
18  Paul Whitfield GT                 2m19.940s   3
19  Fulvio Policardi-GT                 No time
20  2 UKGPL_T7                          No time


LEADERS

Driver                           Laps
Hristo ItchovGT                  1-30

Number of lead changes: 0
Number of leaders: 1


LAPS LED

Driver                           Laps led
Hristo ItchovGT                  30


HIGHEST CLIMBER

Driver                           Start Finish  Change
steve birdgt                        17     10       7 
franGT Molteni                      14      8       6 
Pedro Berg_vd                        7      4       3 
Alastair BaldwinGT                  15     12       3 
Fulvio Policardi-GT                 16     13       3 
Sport Cookie                        13     11       2 
Juha HalliGT                         3      2       1 
Fulvio Policardi-GT                 20     19       1 
Nicky Ickx GT                        6      5       1 
Göran JonssonGT                      4      3       1 
Phil ThorntonGT                     10      9       1 
Paul Whitfield GT                   18     18       0 
Hristo ItchovGT                      1      1       0 
2 UKGPL_T7                          19     20      -1 
BartoszGT Antoszczyszy               5      7      -2 
Zachariah Blito                     11     14      -3 
Ronnie Peterson                     12     16      -4 
Sam Blood                            2      6      -4 
 EvilGT                              9     15      -6 
Martin_GT Hunt                       8     17      -9 


ON TRACK LAPS

Driver                           Laps/Total    Percent
franGT Molteni                      (25/28)      89.29
Nicky Ickx GT                       (24/29)      82.76
Göran JonssonGT                     (24/29)      82.76
Juha HalliGT                        (19/30)      63.33
Pedro Berg_vd                       (17/29)      58.62
BartoszGT Antoszczyszy              (17/29)      58.62
Sport Cookie                        (15/27)      55.56
Sam Blood                           (12/29)      41.38
steve birdgt                        (12/27)      44.44
Phil ThorntonGT                      (9/28)      32.14
Alastair BaldwinGT                   (9/18)      50.00
 EvilGT                              (8/14)      57.14
Zachariah Blito                      (8/15)      53.33
Hristo ItchovGT                      (7/30)      23.33
Fulvio Policardi-GT                  (5/17)      29.41
Paul Whitfield GT                     (2/6)      33.33
Ronnie Peterson                       (1/8)      12.50
Martin_GT Hunt                        (0/7)       0.00


RACE LAPTIME CONSISTENCY
(first lap excluded)

Driver                    Avg Deviation  Std Deviation  Avg Laptime   Laps
Hristo ItchovGT                   0.955          1.260    2m01.261s     30
Göran JonssonGT                   1.137          1.615    2m06.421s     29
Nicky Ickx GT                     1.403          2.089    2m06.877s     29
BartoszGT Antoszczyszy            1.434          2.029    2m07.083s     29
Pedro Berg_vd                     1.764          2.439    2m05.650s     29
Martin_GT Hunt                    1.883          2.220    2m09.928s      7
Fulvio Policardi-GT               2.418          3.593    2m07.767s     17
Juha HalliGT                      2.849          5.265    2m04.552s     30
franGT Molteni                    3.127          5.560    2m10.984s     28
Paul Whitfield GT                 3.487          4.050    2m23.737s      6
Phil ThorntonGT                   4.089          5.869    2m11.288s     28
Alastair BaldwinGT                4.433          6.046    2m15.440s     18
steve birdgt                      4.442          6.020    2m13.547s     27
Ronnie Peterson                   4.756          6.132    2m11.405s      8
Zachariah Blito                   4.806          6.524    2m13.107s     15
Sam Blood                         5.188          6.422    2m07.843s     29
 EvilGT                           7.670         10.510    2m15.347s     14
Sport Cookie                      9.468         12.439    2m18.267s     27


All times are unofficial
(Replay might have been saved before end of race)

Generated with GPL Replay Analyser

Don't know what happened at the start, it was major chaos!  might be why a few drivers seem to have been dropped from the results.

Anyway after the dodgy start it turned into a great race for me.  Had a couple of good battles and managed to survive to the end (OK 2 laps down but a finish nevertheless).  Had 3 of silly offs at T2 when I selected 1st instead of 3rd.  I like the realism of the H shifter but it does make life a lot harder.

Formation finish for the green team!  Grats Fran  :jumpjoy:

It seems to be Martin bashing night tonight - literally!  I did not cause the lap 1 pileup, and I was not in the middle of the track after blowing up.  If I'd taken to the inside grass as you approached, even at my speed, I might've spun backwards into your path.  My sin, was not bailing out of the race sooner, and being in the wrong place, at the wrong moment.  I think Ronnie got caught up in the action as well, so I sincerely apologise to you both.  It would be nice to hang around for longer, in these longer races! :-\

Is Rouen pronounce Ruin?

Early bath - thought I'd pootle round at the back doing easy 2:15s after my enforced Shift-R (Grrrrr). Lost concentration and rolled it.... useless.

Managed a 2:11 in qually which wasn't too bad for me as I didn't find a clean lap so not too disappointed. Realised after the Shift-R that I had not set the race setup to anything but default (yuck). Difficult for me to drive, drove for a finish, didn't. :(

Went and had fun at Monza instead. 1:36 in the Fezza, pretty pleased even though that will NOT be competetive. Need to find three seconds from somewhere...

For once I had a near perfect race, although Qualifying went with a lot frustrating moments. I don't understand why some people drive their outlap from the pits without making way to those who's on a flying lap, but it ruined a couple of potentially good laps. I also got a nudge after passing a car which spun me at T2. Anyway, at least I managed a clean lap at the end of the session to take the pole (and WR, if I bother to upload my time).

The start was a slow one as expected, with 1st gear's necessity to be set long, but a blip of the clutch button (would be risky on Pro damage) and all the others not making much quicker get aways kept me in the lead.

I had Sam keeping up initially and the very strong slipstream made it near impossible to shake him off, but at the same time I was trying to get a feeling for the car on more fuel and watch after the engine a bit. With just 3 gears it means getting much slower acceleration as you short-shift.

Eventually Sam made a mistake an dropped back, and was replaced by Juha for a while. Juha was also able to keep up somewhat, but once I broke away the slipstream, the gap started growing up consistently. Sam managed to return to 2nd in the middle of the race before dropping back again and by that time the gap was near a minute, so I just had to bring it home.

30 laps felt long doing them on my own, so I kept pushing to keep my focus high and there were also a high number of backmarkers that I had to deal with. Some were locked up in their own personal battles, so it was necessary to time my attacks well and avoid any bad situations. Everyone behaved really well, for which I'm thankful. I hope I didn't affect the outcome of someone's race, but it appears to me some people throw themselves off the line, jump on the brakes and what not, as soon as they see a blue flag! Please don't do that!

I had a few scary moments, some due to the problem of the front wheels locking up (thankfully in slow corners, so I could managed to avoid serious trouble) and some due to myself pushing over the limit.

BTW, I was trying an even softer setup and it worked great! My reasoning is that the Chaparral is about 20-30% heavier than the BRM and with weight distribution of around 40:60, similar to most other 67 F1 cars. Taking that into account, I tried using a similar setup to what I use with 67s F1, but making it stiffer by around 20-30% and then fine tunning it for handling (mostly the bump/rebound and ARB). The lap times say it all.

-=Hristo=-

That was me, Hristo. Sorry.
Mind you I now feel insulted too! that wasnt an outlap, that was my full-on banzai flying lap!

Also me... whilst i refuse to yeild during qual, there is no point in getting in peoplesway in the race when all my efforts are going in to just trying to make it to the finish. Having already taken one shift_r thanks to an exploding V8, i wasnt going to risk another  in a potential lapping incident!

I know, Blito, I didn't mean you when I spoke of those who blocked me on outlaps. I knew you were on a hotlap, but so was I and there was enough room for both of us. I guess you just braked too late.

As for the thing in the race, I'm just saying you don't have to get off the line ASAP (or at all), it's not a problem to follow you around one corner and passing after it, or making a move on my own down the straight.

BTW, one issue I want to mention in regard to the insane slipstream of these cars (sorry, but it is totally unrealistic IMO). Similar to how it happens in 66s (and sometimes in 69s), you pick up a lot of speed even when there's a car far ahead of you and that seems to have led to many offs, because you don't realize you're arriving at a corner at greater speed than usual, and your braking point needs to be moved back. Just something to keep in mind when you (anyone) are racing and spot cars in front of you, be absolutely sure that you're going to reach the next corner at higher speed, even if it's not noticeable, particularly if it's high speed sections like those in Rouen. I've had to deal with this a couple of times yesterday when I was closing up on backmarkers and it made it quite unpredictable.

Didn't have a good race at all.  Got caught up in the big crash just off the grid; I managed to stop just before making any contact, but with drivers resetting and manoeuvring to regain the track I took a knock, which didn't seem to cause any damage thankfully. That, plus some rather lacklustre driving from me placed me in a big gap between the many cars ahead and the one or two behind.  Had a few small moments of racing with Fran (thanks for the clean driving, good fun while it lasted) but a mistake by either he or I separated us for the most part, and then he disappeared off to the distance.

Looks like I got a lucky 10th due to plenty of misfortune across the other drivers.

Anyway, had a couple of fun Monza races after so that kind of made up for a long tedious Rouen.

Maybe because you, Juha and Fran left the pits before 20 mins was up on the clock. Consequently you were bound to find a few slower cars on their outlaps ahead of you who were only following the rules. Its a simple one to solve!

Lets be honest guys that start was awful. I thought Martin was blameless as he was not one of the drivers taking a zig zag line off the start. But very entertaining on the replay. And yes I did get caught up with Al and Martin later but stuff like that happens, no problem guys. The car was not too badly damaged but limping round and possibly getting in the way of other persuaded me it was better to retire having used up a shift-r at the start. Congratulations to Hristo, Juha and Sam and everyone else who managed to get to the end of that battle of Rouen. Bring on Monza.

hi!

it was fun as always with GT's,  my quali went well and did a new chap2f pb no way to catch Hristo anyway . RAce start was clean for first 5 front runners and i was followed by Nicky for few first laps,  trying to keep up with  Hristo and Sam but they seems a bit faster as i was not able to slipstream.Soon Sam make a mistake at 2nd last corner and i was able to hang on few laps with Hristo .When i was making minor mistakes Hristo went far away and didnt see him after 10? laps.  One hit to the tire barriers and i squeeze my engine maybe little too much and blew engine ,i still have no idea how this engine survives long distance races but maybe PRO Monza race will show us something results , shift-r and stop'n go in pit. Sam gets 2nd and i was followed, but soon he make one more error and i was able to take my 2nd place again.

Interesting point in this race was backmarkers ,they always appears ahead suddenly and makes a race more interesting . :D

Grats Hristo for excellent race !


Juha

These GT's used to regularly race alongside much slower cars, where things must've been quite entertaining.  And disabled cars, such as mine last night, were not uncommon.  A GT driver was killed in this era, while pushing his out of fuel car, towards the pits, around a blind bend - we've an easy time of things, by comparison.

I got caught up in it too Steve.  As we have said in another thread, when there is an incident caused by the first 2 or 3 rows it invariably leads to a massive pile up for the rest of the grid.  This was a classic example.  If we had been running under PRO rules most of the drivers would have been out of the race before T1!!

I saw what was happening and slowed down but I got rear ended.  Part of the problem is related to bandwidth, it's not always possible for the back of the grid to see the carnage ahead because of the limited numbers of cars visible.  I assume that is why I got rear ended.

Anyway the PRO v single shift R debate will no doubt carry on.  If the PRO experiment at Monza does indeed slow these Chaparrals down then it will be a good thing.  However we will have to improve our starts. There is no point in having a full grid if no more than 5 drivers can get round T1 unscathed.

My race was kind of OK. I missed the start so Nicky got in front of me and although I felt I could have gone a little faster I did not make to much effort to pass. But then Nicky went for the grass so I could pass and there I was in nowhere land struggling with concentration and reliability for quite some time. Sam apparently had made some mistake and went into the pits for a S&G and suddenly I was in 3rd.

All went well as long as Pedro was behind Nicky but near the end he got passed and at the same time I had some small problem with backmakers, mostly that I was a bit too careful when passing, and all of a sudden I had Pedro in my slipstream or should I say gearbox maybe. On the last lap he went for the podium but braked too late for the Scierie turn so he missed the corner but managed to come back to the track just as I was passing, but I got out of it before he did so my 3rd was safe.

As for the team, H did his job very well and although Alastair did not make it this time we can look forward to Monza with confident.

It is still a puzzle to me, being the 4Th to pic drivers, that H was still available. I guess some one are regretting their pic of drivers  ;D

I took a look at the start and two things came to mind. First, it is not that wise so move sideways at the start even if the car in front make a bad start and the other is that when shit happens in front many drivers go on as if they think, " I will probably get by", even if the track is allmost totally blocked. I feel sorry for Steve though, as he was one of the drivers that reacted correctly,IMHO, but that did not help anyway.

Göran

I hope I didn't block anyone in qualifying - don't think I did but if I did apologies.

The problem is that you can't see people coming (cause of the mirrors) and you can't hear them properly because there are so many cars around. Tough to manage.

I saw the crash at the start and managed to slow enough to hit but be able to continue but my car then exploded as people reset - I literally ended up balanced on the hay bales. Couldn't reset because the track wasn't clear and that put me dead last. Waste of time really. Toottled round slowly because I wasn't sure I had enough fuel to finish because I forgot to add the setup to the race so I had the default - d'oh. That meant that people were passing me left right and centre and that meant I took an odd line clipped the grass, rolled it and that was that.

The lap 1 crashes are a real problem and we need to pick circuits where getting ahead is not so critical so that people risk all. Circuit choice will be the making or breaking of the GTs I think.

I totally agree with what Goran says about the start. You may look for excuses like it's the track's fault, it's the car's fault, it's the bandwidth's fault, it's the standing start's fault, etc., but the reality is people take risks and logically not always get away with it. Being cautious, holding your line, sacrificing position if you must... all that can improve the situation. You cannot just assume you can accelerate fully and nothing is going to happen ahead of you. And of course, it's just the nature of racing, sometimes shit just happens and you suffer from it. IMO as long as we're running wide spaced grids it's not much different than the starts with F1 cars. Just got to keep in mind these cars are bigger, heavier and drivers have less visibility.

@Ronnie - you're right, I went out before the 20 minutes mark, so my mistake about that. I didn't know we need to wait (or I must've forgotten). But I had problems after that as well, well after the 20 minutes mark.

Classic example indeed.  It's getting a bit tedious as its happening very frequently.

I don't like starting mid-pack because it's almost guaranteed that something will happen so I tend to use Q as a race warm-up on race fuel which normally puts me towards the back somewhere, where I can have a fighting chance in slowing and moving around the incident in the mid-pack. By doing it this time it did save me a reset and subsequently allowed me to finish the race as I had to use a reset mid race, so it paid off again.

Unfortunately in Sim racing there will always be risky moves going on in the hope that the driver will get away with it, because they know its not going to physically hurt, wont cost a shed load of cash to repair and it might be the infrequent shot at glory if they do get through and make enough ground on faster drivers that have been caught up in the incident.  I'm not suggesting anyone does this deliberately, its the competitive streak in us all that drives racers to take risks.  The downside of the GTs, when compared to the F1 cars is with them being bigger and heavier it provides less time to react and avoid potential incidents; exactly the reason why Phil, myself and others are encouraging a review and assessment of other methods which may provide a better chance of reducing early race incidents while the pack is close together.

Thanks Goran.  It did kind of help as I think it saved me a reset which I had to use later, which allowed me to finish the race, albeit much further behind what was left of the main pack in the early stages.

Although it's been said so many times, it may need to be reminded again because it's so true: you can't win the race on lap 1, but you sure can lose it.

That was quite possibly my most dismal race so far in the GTs. The Ferrari was a delight in qualifying with the setup I cobbled together, but it made the Ferrari extremely unpredictable over the kerbs, which I found out on many occasions! I lost count how many times I spun off or nudged other cars. I can only apologise. The start was good fun, I was keeping up with H with help from the tow but inevitably braked just a little too late on a full tank and ran wide and the end of the 2nd lap, allowing Juha through.

Soon after it was a case of matching Juha's pace before but made another error, dropping back further but found myself in 2nd again after he took a stop and go. About halfway through the race, my sound coming through the television started to crackle and after two laps or so the sound became so distorted I could barely hear the engine note or people around me. I knew the only way to fix this would be to turn the television off and back on again so I came up with a reckless plan of turning the television off and on again while I was driving down the straight in a bid to save time  ::). That worked until my sodding TV refused to turn back on for an agonising 10 seconds. When the screen reappeared I was parked in the middle of the straight! Next time a problem like that occurs, I'm just going to do a lengthy stop and go and not be so selfish to other racers.

The next half of the race was a total disaster, I lost power after giving Blito a nudge a Noveau Monde, sadly tipping him over and I had lost power. Juha breezed past my sick Ferrari and I spun later that lap using my shift R there and then. After a stop and go, I was about 6th, making so many errors a lost count. If we weren't racing for teams, I would have quit in self-disgust at my awful driving. Eventually made it to the flag, just glad that it was over. It can only get better at Monza. Congrats to H for the excellent win!

First of all THANX to the organizers of this fantastic GT fun series :clap:

Excuse my crappy english

As a newbie in online racing I am learning and am willing to learn.
Since ~1999 I raced the AIs with my RC-Car Controller as practice for RC-Racing (1:8 combustion engines full susspension 4wd), at the end on the most GPL  tracks I was able to catch all of them.

With the GTmods release I wanted more, meanwhile I used an old wobbly Momo ffb of my son and on Xmas 2010 I did click first time on IGOR

I've learned that the comunity of the GPL online racers are very friendly and helpful.
I am race proven for ~20 years of rc-cars (sometimes as worksdriver for PB Team) and know how racing works.
So found gentlemen like John Roberts who adviced me to take part in GT fun series, as there are all kind of drivers from aliens to newbies welcome.

Rouen was nearly new for me, cause I never really raced AIs there. With a good setup for my Chap-D I did for me passable times.
I think some of you will remember my first rounds especially last corner where I braked and shifted down...

But I learned and after a while got it right to a 2:05:11. But in Quali I couldnt do the same, but as its a pretty long race a 13th position was ok.
My start was ok and I saw the chaos coming and could avoid damage by braking and carefully surrounding ufos. I found myself on 7th after lap 1.
My intention was to drive carefully with no risk, to complete my first race! But must have been my 13. starting position...
On the staight after turn 1 in lap 8 suddenly my  monitor went black! After hitting esc it was back after about 3 sec this happened 3 times during the race, luckily the car never got hurt..

We all know the blocking brakes....
Happened and i stuck in hairpin tyres: shift+r and stop and go (where to stop? anywhere in the pits or at the name? did both!)
cost me lots of places was last but lucky at the end I had finished.

Apologise to everyone who had trouble by my behaviour
and gratz to the podium and all finisher!


PS

Nobody should have probs with mirrors! There is a virtual mirror available for every car! For Chaps a must!

When I am driving a hotlap in Quali an alien might think I am cruising. I am not! Its my limit! Using pribluda I see all green and the follower has made a 1:59 I will not hop in grass but will let him pass when its ok for me!

Its a fun series...

Greetz Axel

My Ferrari is as red as my face was after the start crach.

Yes it was I who prevented us from having a pile up at the hairpin.
Bartosz was infront of me and appears to have a very bad start.
I made a natural response to avoid him and moved to the left just enough to pass him.
Martin on the other hand had a super start and was already beside me............crash.
(If you had been driving a little bit more to the left nothing had happend, but its my bad!)

I am very very sorry this has happen!

I agree with what has been written about sensible and avoiding driving!
No excuses ................. well there always is...... the urge to win I think.
It is so bloody difficult to controle yourself when you have a change to bennefit.
Making decisions in a split second when you are full of adrealine is not a easy task.


Last lap, last corner (Sciery), fighting Göran for 3e place.
I was slipstreaming and was able to get the inside.
Stupid me, I look at the wrong brakemarker and go off very hard.
Very sorry Göran for that!
This also could have gone very wrong............SORRY. (luckely it diddent)

Biside 1e and last lap ..............wonderfull race, great fights, beautifull passes, a big party.

Thanks UKGPL for letting me race with the Bleu team.
Congratulations to Alien-Hristo, Juha and Göran.

Greetings Pedro

 :laugh: that's brilliant, love that quote.  hehehe

Pedro, please don't get down by it.  I feel to some extent that it is inevitable that something will happen.  How often in the real world do lap 1 incidents happen?  I'm sure everyone knows it's a lot.  Very rarely does lap 1 happen without incident in any race, sim or real, and the real guys get to have the luxury of peripheral vision etc.

 :)

Seems that most people had a good race despite the Start line problems. Grats to the heavy gang up front and to all those who finished.

Apologies from me to Pedro and Steve Bird for nudging them from behind, but I was preoccupied by Pribs/servers decision to randomly position me. 
On lap 2 I think I went from 7th -14th-11th-13th-18th and did not see any other cars??!! From then on I was struggling to work out if the cars I was travelling with, were lapping me or racing for position!!!

Monza next week  ;D

I am considering a "Rolling Start" for the PRO Monza race, which might save a few engines from exploding on the grid?

What I have in mind is.......... a single file lap at a reasonable ( steady) pace....obviously no overtaking or sudden braking or accelerating by anyone and at least 3 car lengths gap between drivers.

Because it is Monza I am thinking that we can allow the race to begin as we reach the end of the armco on the left exiting Parabolica. That should automatically stretch the field?? and we have acres of tarmac to sort things out before Curve Grande.

I don't think UKGPL have ever tried that (Phil?) but it's never too late to see what works. These GT's do seem to have a varying 'kick' so why not give it a go in a fun event. Your kick off point should be straightforward at Monza but we might have to consider inserting a flag if we varied the overtaking start-off from the S/F line in an official division series?

Sounds good.

No apology needed Clive.  My prib had you a lap down too, but I wasn't convinced, and all got a bit confusing.  I probably braked earlier than expected as I was a bit all over the place with the Mk1.  Love it at Monza, but didn't seem to get consistent performance from it at Rouen.  Had a weird sudden understeer happen now and again.  Not sure if its something like H has mentioned before, don't think I go fast enough for that  :laugh:

Monza was always going to be tough and I'm all for giving the rolling start a go but that start point for Monza exiting the Parabolica? Thats one extra long blast down to the first meaningful corner. This will be a major test for the slower cars. Should be fun!

Actually, I like that Monza idea ... a simple NO OVERTAKING ON LAP ONE rule sorts out everything and is easy to remember. Like it!
 

Samb -
"The next half of the race was a total disaster, I lost power after giving Blito a nudge a Noveau Monde, sadly tipping him over"

You know, I wasnt even aware of you being there! I just ended up with car on its roof and no idea what had happened!.... Now that i know it was a "no fault" shift+r to recover maybe I could have continued the race instead of having to retire on the spot?

Finally, Badblood - that Monza "tag" session afterwards with Clive was a blast wasnt it.... sure teaches us how to use the mirrors properly i think! I`m up for more of that later if you`re keen....
 

No overtaking on lap one would be a bit too much to ask for and goes against the idea of racing. Just avoid going 3 wide on the straights and ease up gradually before the braking zones so drivers behind can react on time.

Yes is true,during the accident my car was reversed than some miraculous touch have reversed my car again in the right position.Unfortunately the replay saved ,don't contain the start,so i don't know what was happened.What is incredible for me is that i was able to arrive to the finish without engine blowing and is the first time. :laugh:

I don't see why its too much to ask if it increases the chance of everyone getting past the first few laps into some proper racing instead of there being a crash at T1 or Lap 1 and spreading or reducing the field further than it would be by a 'parade' lap; surely that's the idea of racing?

if you slowly build up the revs of the engine rather that just redline it straight away , then you won't blow up on the grid .

john

Not to my knowledge, which goes back to season 4 when I first joined UKGPL, so I think it's fair to say we haven't tried it.  As someone said in an earlier post, other leagues have tried it so it would be best to ask them how it worked out in practice.

Further to the Rouen start, I've seen the replay and I know exactly what happened.  So does everyone else, especially Pedro ;).  What is important here is to learn and not to blame and argue, thankfully that is what is happening on this occasion, nobody is too upset and we are all having fun.  But if it happened in a league race on PRO rather than a fun race with a shift R "safety net" I think a few people might have got annoyed.

There are only 2 ways to sort this IMO.

1.  Stick with PRO rules and try to eradicate bad starts.
2.  Accept bad starts will always happen and allow a shift R so the innocent parties don't suffer too much.

It may be that option 1 is the only feasible option if it is the only way to slow down the Chaparrals.

And whose fault would it be if a crash happens? Certainly not the racing's fault, but the drivers'. How are people ever going to improve if you keep sanitizing racing to the point where responsibility is completely taken off their shoulders?

Two major concerns:

1) Someone in front of you driving slowly and by having to stay behind without being allowed to pass, you drop time (and lose the tow) to the cars ahead.

2) Someone makes a mistake and you're forced to wait behind until they recover. And I'm not talking about spins or offs, but about going wide, losing the car for a moment, etc.

It's again the tendency to look for excuses for not driving in a more safe manner and reduce the risk of incidents by changing the nature of racing. Don't we have wide spread grids already? Don't we allow for shift-r? Aren't we going to try a rolling start for exactly that purpose? I think we should draw the line right there or next time someone is going to propose that you should never attempt to pass on the outside line or something.

I think it's a good idea to just avoid going 3-wide down the straight and to leave enough room in front of you in case of emergency (or just earlier) braking. That's what safe driving means and it doesn't detract from racing.

What happens if I get blue flags? ;)

Why would you get a blue flag on first lap?


As for rolling starts. I'm a big fan of this kind of starts in GT cars. We need to remamber that those cars were made for rolling starts and some of them have problems with GP starts.

At HSO they use rolling starts and they don't have problems with that:


This really isn't that hard to made a safe rolling start ;)

These cars were not made for rolling starts.  I was at Brands Hatch to see them during this era.  Rolling starts are a much more recent phenomenon, in European racing.  So either we haven't the skill and discipline to reproduce reality, or we haven't yet learnt, they all start differently.

if the same goes next GT events ,what about rule of passing not allowed before T1 ?

Until T1 is OK, but if you ask me not to pass during the whole opening lap, I'm going to disappoint.  :D

If we are doing a rolling start that's what I was meaning by a parade lap, so it appears that there is confusion somewhere.  Probably me misinterpreting something  ???  Isn't this planned for the pro race so there is no shift-r?

Certainly my POV is not to sanitize racing by any means, nor look for excuses for bad driving but to maximise the chance of enjoyment for everyone, not just those at the front of the grid who normally get a clean start and have a decreased risk of having someone else's accident.  We're talking about lap 1, not the complete race; I'd hate it to turn into the farce that is F1 at them moment where there is positive discouragement of anyone taking the slightest risk.

Martin - They did use rolling starts, frequently.  Yes, they also used standing starts and on very tight grids to the point the drivers could reach out and touch the car next to them which were, for the spectator, far more exciting but, for me, they run too much of a risk in mid pack for sim racing starts and normally result in a significant incident to effective spoil the race for too many people too frequently.

Anyway, Clive has already indicated that he is considering the rolling start, it's his series and his call; if he decides to trial it then great, if not then I'll be happy with it also.  As long as things are considered then that's all that can be asked.

A T1 rule could be just as effective I think so agree with you both on that too.

You spoke about not being allowed to pass for a whole lap after the start (excluding the pace/warm up lap), so that's what I disagreed on. Up to T1 is fine by me, but after that you better watch your (virtual?) mirrors.  ;D

 ;D not for at least the first half of the race I hope, I'll wave as you pass again...and again...and again if Rouen was anything to go by.

Sorry, yes didn't phrase it well, I meant only 1 lap in total of no passing i.e. the warm up lap, not lap 1 of the race proper.

Right. I guess you're not as conservative as I thought.  :D

I have been out of the house all day and only just returned to find a "nice" discussion brewing re the rolling start.

So, just to clarify what I have in mind for the PRO race at Monza....because GPL does not allow a "warm up lap" or a "parade lap".

My proposal is for the cars to assemble on the grid as normal, but when the start flag drops we move off in single file and hold our positions until we exit Parabolica when full on racing begins.  

OK, we effectively "lose" a lap from the race length, but everyone should get off the grid safely ( without blowing an engine) and be ready to go for it as they enter the S/F straight first time around.

except for those who dont like the rule who will already be at Lesmo lap 2 by then.....

Just something to keep in mind with the rolling start: those in the middle and far end of the pack are going to pick up a lot of speed quite easily due to the tow, so make sure to brake on time for T1.

I was kidding Pod - even I would hope not to get caught up on a warm up lap - I wouldn't totally rule it out though ;)

sounds good, but my idea of no passing before T1 have same idea + not lose a lap   :)

im going by your rules ofcourse  :)

In all seriousness, there is one point that nobody seems to have mentioned. By having a staggered rolling start you almost totally eliminate the possibility of a 'good start' gaining a place. For a novice, a good start is vital as they may well be passing people who are quicker but close enough that you could defend a lead. Shame to lose that because drivers can't control their racing instincts...

I have some experience with rolling start from AusGPL when we had a rolling start at Daytona, the oval, with the Thundercars.

We used a single line of cars and a slow first lap where the leader, me, held a steady pace and then when we passed the S/F line the race begun. And there was no overtaking before the S/F line. It worked well and if it was possible in AusGPL then it surley is possible here at UKGPL.

Here you can watch it if you like http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XEGMPK2P (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XEGMPK2P)

Göran

Yes, Paul that is another down side, but to be fair, there are another 4 series within UKGPL where a good start would still count in cars that are better suited to standing starts (IMHO).  It's of no use getting a better start if it's likely to end up in a crash anyway.

Actually all the leaders crashing and me cruising past (slowly) is a VITAL part of my strategy ;)

RESULTS OF ROUEN RACE


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