UKGTL Power and Glory V2 Mod Wet Test - Donington Park (GP) - Jan 22

[pribeiro]

I might join you tonight aswell. 

[Steve Holmes]

Slightly OT Steve, try a soft front hard rear type setup at valencia in the E-Type, then try the setup I've uploaded to the SROU online folder, see if you find any difference.

Just tried it, thanks for the heads up, very interesting.  I managed a best of 2:19.5 over 4 laps (first I'd tried in the e-type) with your setup Madd, compared to 2:20.1 over 4 laps with the same setup with a softer front and stiffer rear, which I tried afterwards.  So that goes to show how much better it is.  It seems as though with a soft front end the tyres are much more prone to go into that 'ooh I've lost grip' squealing mode.  Which is the exact opposite to what I expected.  Is the car rolling so much the inside tyre starts to lose adhesion?

Car's much more positive and NOT understeery with your stiff front soft rear.  Interesting for sure.

Setting up cars is a headache. 

[Mark J]

i guess having a soft squishy suspension underneath a big engine lump like the E-type has, would compromise your handling somewhat 
By stiffening the springs your reducing the roll and therefore improving the handling 

[ginsters sponsored]

Tyre choice is interesting. I managed 2.01's pretty consistently with Dunlops 970 but only 2.03's with soft wets. Hardly scientific, but surprising none the less. Perhaps it would differ with 100% rain?

Gotta say that the TR4 isn't as hard to drive in the rain as I thought it would be (I maybe way off the pace mind ). In fact its a little disappointing really. Wonder if the bigger beasties are more spicy.

[Paul968]

To me the tr4 isn't as good in the wet - no front end bite, which is what makes it so good otherwise. I'm struggling to make it work at the moment, but I suspect I'm not exploiting the car well enough in the slow bits.

[Madd-RIP]

The only tyres you should use are the Dunlops, the 'GTR2' tyres are there for the AI, apparently it got confused when that part of the code was removed.

[Mark J]

As Madd says 

To me, using the soft and hard wet tyres is a cheat really and shouldnt be allowed in the spirit of our classics racing. Although your witnessing comparable times over a few laps, using the modern tyres may give a bigger advantage over a race distance through wear rates/grip etc so should be banned 

I too found the TR4 mildly disapointing in the wet at Doni, i was expecting a lot more slippy slidey fun. What i dont get is the TR4 is a 1961 sportscar and yet the tyres that the P&G mod allows for it are two compounds not introduced until 1967 according to their own tyre manual    I bet if we were only allowed the R5's from 1961 the cars would be sliding all over the place in great style.
I found the TR4 more tail out fun to drive in the dry at Valencia weirdly, whereas i expected to be hanging on for dear life around here. Add more water !  ...or use the IROC porkers instead 

[ASSASSINO]

when im in lobby i cant see all the servers, some are missing, i´ve opened gtr2 ports but i know some servers are missing.

[ginsters sponsored]

when im in lobby i cant see all the servers, some are missing, i´ve opened gtr2 ports but i know some servers are missing.

Have you got difficulty set to simulation mode?

[ASSASSINO]

hmm. ill try that prob you´re right .

thanks

[Mr_B.A.Baracus]

Don't think I'm gonna be able to make this after all tonight, doubt I'll be back in time - gutted! I've been wanting a single make race for ages! Might I suggest an all mini's fun/test race at Knockhill sometime? I don't think you could get a closer race than that!

[Oilseal]

I too found the TR4 mildly disapointing in the wet at Doni, i was expecting a lot more slippy

Just as a matter of note whats the concensus on the "wet" race. like Jonzo I had been expecting an almost undriveably slidey car.

This is not a complaint, I love the idea I can get round in the wet.

My question is more to do with the wet experience. In other sims I've always been led to believe the undriveable myth.

Having no real life experience of actually driving any form of racing car (I dont include the occasional corporate go karting or the one time I drove Tinman's Pilgrim around Donington, and realised that sim racing was the only time I wanted to go racing. Shift-R was always more enjoyable than a spell in the local hospital and cheaper than remortgaging the house) I'd like to know which is the more realistic.

I always thought that previous sims were far too slidey.

An old man awaits enlightenment



Oilseal

[Mark J]

the only 'wet track' experience i had was on a day at Brands Hatch in my 911. It bucketed down with rain in the late afternoon and although i could definitely feel the car moving about more i wouldnt say it became undriveable. Obviously you correct your speed and steering input to suit but i felt there was plenty enough grip. I guess the N-rated grippy fast road tyres helped..might have been a different matter on slicks 

Re the TR4, yeah it does appear to have too much grip for 50% rain, but then it is on soft and treaded tyres  I actually found it more of a handful at Valencia in the dry, it was far more easier to get the back end out around the turns there, so i expected it to be even more fun at Doni in the wet.
I think we should up the rainfall...60 or 70%.

[Steve Holmes]

Funnily enough I did a trackday at Donington in my Coop that started dry and turned into a deluge, enough for it to become open pitlane as people gave up and went home and finally to be called off an hour early.  On average (but modern!) road tyres it became very slippy, I'm guessing 20 seconds a lap slower (and I was one of the quicker cars in the wet). Instead of just getting the car into sustained 4-wheel drifts at the Old Hairpin I was doing so at almost every corner.  From relatively small drift angles to very large ones. Massive fun.  Like driving on ice.

Given that experience I'd also agree that the difference between wet and dry for the Tr4 here is massively underdone.  Other sims are closer.  Something a little dubious about P&G tyres maybe?

[Mark J]

well im now gonna poo-poo whats been said and re-evaluate ! 

I just tried a wet race @ 50% using this 60's class, driving the TR4 and trust me, it was more than slippery enough! As soon as you get offline or miss an apex then it gets very slippery and the car fishtails and slides about nicely enough.  I also managed plenty of spins mid corner or under power exit when you try getting on the gas too quickly. Likewise through the chicanes. You can get seriously out of shape with some lateral sliding up at Mcleans and coppice. 

I think its all about perception. Whats making this car look too stable on initial testing is because its pretty damn slow compared to the rest of the cars available, giving us ample time to make corrections and catch any errant drifts. But under race conditions when you have cars around you and your changing lines, it becomes a whole new world of slippery on the donington cambers 

I dont think there is anything wrong with the tyres. Try softening your suspension and the car becomes even more slidey and sloppy...i tried it !
I tried a variety of pressures. Around 270kpa (cold) seems to give about optimum grip, coming in at around 295kpa when hot, so staying within the 220-300kpa range as specified in the tyre manual.

Got to say, a full grid of GT60s cars at Donington in the wet, looks and sounds amazing  especially when the daytonas and e-types etc pass you by, and seeing the odd car pirouette down at craners...all looks so real. 

All in all, i think the racing tonight will be very close and there will be a lot of spinners, just what the doctor ordered