SimRacing.org.uk

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Practice: 19:20 (GMT) (60 mins)
Qual 2: 20:20 (20 mins)
Race: 20:40 (25 laps)
Cars allowed: Ferrari 275 (not speciale) E Type Jag (ALL)

Track: Surfers Paradise Download this (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3356.msg169368#post_surfers_2004)
Time of Day Setting: 13:00
Weather: Dry
Start: Standing

Tyre wear: Normal
Fuel consumption: Normal
Pit-stops: None required

Server: simracing.org.uk AGTC
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Championship Standings (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=351&theme=34)

Notes:
(1) It's best if all drivers can make sure they are connected before the Qualifying session as drivers on track during qualifying will not see cars that join after they are on track until they go back to the garage.
(2) Please make sure you are fully aware of the SimRacing.org.uk Rules (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?pid=7) especially the rules about in-game chat messages.
(3) You will need to install Power and Glory v2 from here (http://www.gtlw.co.uk/), 2.1 patch from here (http://www.gtlw.co.uk/) and enable terrain patch.
(4) P&G has no 'Pit Speed Limiter' function. You may go as fast as you like in the pits, but please exercise caution. Penalties will be handed out for causing contact in the pit lane. Use your best judgement when making your pitstop during the race.
Password: see above (#post_event_password)
(2) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=351;theme=34)

No installer yet, but yes it is the 2004 one by NeelJ
http://www.nogripracing.com/details.php?filenr=6904

Times for me are within a tenth of each other, so should be close racing
You can take "some" liberties with the chicane red barrels, but more than
two wheels over the painted kerbs will result in your 1st born being sold
into slavery.  :o

Sorry your post got lost Stig, I had created the event 3 times in my enthusiasm......
had to delete 2 of them  ::)

You'll no doubt be pleased to hear then, that Stigs post lives on here: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=10370.0;topicseen
& the other still existing thread is here: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=10369.0;topicseen

Looks like you ran out of enthusiasm when deleting the threads  ;)

And I took the liberty of modifying the Championship Standings link  ;)

Don't worry Matt. I never even plucked up the courage to go near LM2  ;)

Chortle

Well it all seems simple, but there are so many bits to it I'm never quite sure what If anything I am
supposed to do with all the various groups etc. One thing that I've never worked out is why events
Mike and I create are always in red, as if they aren't linked properly.

They are in red to show you that your event is upcoming.

I suggest we all make a special donation, so that UK sim can buy this
(http://rlv.zcache.com/the_few_the_proud_the_post_men_tshirt-p235031491937974146z7tqq_400.jpg)

for all you guys doing all the organizing work.

BTW, Surfers Paradise is a great city track, maybe the very best.

Stig

There are three/four different formats you'll see Matt:
1) the normal one everyone see's
2/3) red, either means you're the "server starter" for that event or there is no "server starter" assigned to that event yet (which I think makes it either bold or italics :-\)
4) I'm sure there's another, but I can't remember :-[

The key thing, is that no matter how bad you screw it up, Dave can probably fix it. ;D   (Well Tony's not beaten him yet! ;))

Not for want of trying tho.  :angel:

The other colour is a greeny-blue which means upcoming event with unfinished status.

Understood
So, only I am seeing this event in red because I am the starter
so I know I need to get my posterior in gear that evening.

And yes I tested this, and absolutely loved it once I remembered which chicane was which.
It will be a hoot  ;)

Well it's not too long.

Hmm..................................Trying to think of something else nice to say about it.

LOL

As you say Matt, it's all a matter of remembering which chicane is which and which ones actually turn out to be corners.

It's a bit of a challenge and I hope that enough of us are up for it.

People who struggle to remember circuits need to start practicing now!

Wot Clive said, (well some of it  ;D )
Please note: It's not ideal, but the red barrels are not solid, and a wheel through them is possible if you want
to risk ending your race against the wall edges. Please remember not to put more than
two wheels over the painted kerbs though :hang:
If someone is seen to be consistantly and blatantly driving across the whole painted areas someone
(Me) will post a complaint, and places will be dropped accordingly.

So, the striped red and white curb is part of the track and so long as you have at least part of a tyre on it you are legal?

It makes quite a difference.

And I will down grade my personal track rating to Poxy, never to be used unless corner cutting limits are sorted.

The long series of chicanes in the second half of the lap is a complete lottery at the moment as I can't find a decent aiming point to get the entry line correct.  By the time you have committed to your line there is no way of knowing if it's going to be legal, foot fault or in the wall.

I don't understand why someone would spend vast amounts of time on building this circuit and then not complete the job by defining where the edge of the track is.  Just let me add that I am full of admiration for the people who have spent their own time to provided us with all the wide range of tracks available.  Long may they do so.

Matt, to avoid confusion and any ill feeling after the race, could you tell us which (if any) of the situations below is acceptable? Cheers.

(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j463/jodmw/1.jpg)

(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j463/jodmw/2.jpg)

(http://i1087.photobucket.com/albums/j463/jodmw/3.jpg)

I always understood it to be two wheels on the blackstuff at all times (making all three illegal Jon), but that consistent corner cutting (i.e. only two wheels on the black stuff) would result in possible penalty.

Just my understanding obviously & would also appreciate clarification. :)

There are circuits where the curbs seem to be ruled part of the track.  Imola comes to mind.

Anyway.  Matt is away until Thursday so I don't know if he will see these posts.

I have just spent two hours trying to do a decent lap that is also legal.

And failed. >:(

It's taking ages because without the track telling me when I have transgressed I have to quit the session and watch the replay.  Then delete it and try again!

I will solve the chicane cutting trouble without doing the race  ;D

Seriously, I have the other P&G champ, so as ever I will join P&G races here on alternate weeks. Have fun guys :)

I'm always a supporter of fair driving and would normally uphold the "at least 2 wheels on the blackstuff" rule at all times.

However, in simworld, at this track, with these cars I would be happy to see this relaxed and have us rely on the physical restrictions of the circuit, ie. the walls and tyres. I just think it would difficult to police and might even lead to some awkward decisions if we try to enforce the usual rule.

Just my opinion and I'm happy to go with whatever's decided  :)

I couldn't have said it better GT  :thumbup1:

Please don't forget to enjoy this awesome city track that has it all IMO. There will probably be cars bounced from a wall at one point or another, so you may have to decide, whether you wanna go safe or go out on a limb. It's a bit of a 'do or die' track, and if many drivers participate, the result of the race will not as predictable as usual.  . . . . . . . and that ain't ½ bad as they say across the big pond  ;)

Stig

Ok

Thanks for the input guys.
My personal view, particularly after looking at John's screenshots is that you can do what you want
at the chicanes with the red barrels, the circuit  IMHO is not well finished in that respect
and I have no intention of wading through the replay several times to see if anyone
is being naughty. Normally "two wheels on the black" is what we do here, this however for me, is
an exception. so, to answer John's question, in this special case I would consider
all the examples to be legal. I already said that people could drive through the barrels
what I meant was one of the chicanes (can't remember which without a replay) where there
is a large area of track inside the painted kerb and I "think" no barrels, That to me is like the painted
kerbs at Dijon Prenois where we have in the past penalised people (like me) for driving inside all the time.

This circuit is a difficult one to rule on, and I had not myself realised just how much the car
would be inside the kerbs if one drove through the barrels, so it's too late for me to find an alternative
and is not worth the effort to police, so just drive as close to walls at the barrels as you like
and risk hitting the walls.

Not ideal, and will put some noses out of joint no doubt, but in this case that would seem the
only practical thing to do.
I still think the track will produce a good race even with all this controversy, lets just do it.

Thanks Matt.   :thumbup1:

2:07's so far for me, still getting my eye in on this track. Used to drive here many moons ago in Papyrus Indycar racing..hours and hours of mispent youth  :)

Not so keen on the modern looking skyscrapers with our vintage racers. Would prefer older tracks in P&G but a challenge nonetheless.

Thanks Matt.

I've got into the 1:54's by taking the p*ss with the kerbs as much as possible. I agree, it's not the most 'gentlemanly' way to drive, but there's so much scope for accidental and deliberate cutting that my opinion is to just treat the barriers as the edge of the track and be done with it on this occasion. Push it too far and instead of a stop/go, you'll get a written off car!!

That said, I'll happily keep two wheels on the tarmac if that is what's required - as long as we all know where we stand  :)

1:54's ?!! jeebers, ive only seen the AI doing 2:03's & 4. Are you driving through those tyre stacks? (if thats possible).

Yes.

See Matt's posts in this thread.

hmm, not really in the spirit of P&G racing is it?  :-\  I take it we aren't also advocating going to the left of that first set of tyres at the first chicane? That should only be used if forced to when side by side or if you get your braking horribly wrong and cant make the turn.

Took the E-Type this time around and got down to 2:02'112  :)....without driving through tyre walls  ::)

I still have not had the opportunity to run some laps myself since last week, so am trying to work from memory
This has been much discussed here, and the best solution of dealing with what is actually a bug in the track
is to just drive to the track limits and completely and utterly ignore the fake barrels in the chicanes

There was one place which could be where Mark is refering to, where you can cut a section of track
Anything like that, and anything other than the red barrels at the chicane wall edges is to be treated
as normal - that is keep at least two wheels on the black. In testing I found the track to be way more fun
if you can carry some speed through those chicanes by driving through or close to the red barrels
it will be hazardous to anyone following close, as 1: you don't know whether the guy in front is going
to cut big time or not, and 2: you will be wrong sighted on approach, so expect a few bent cars from
people taking unwise chances.

I fully understand that this solution is not in our normal spirit, but IMHO is the only sensible way to
run the event. with enough time, perhaps I might have considered replacing it, but we have it now
and everyone reading these posts now knows exactly what is allowed, so please come along and
enjoy the fun.

Thanks.
Matt

I take it from what you say that cuts will be on?

I think I may of turned them off when I started the server after the last GTL. Should I turn them on when I get home tonight?

Interesting to read the post track release comments at nogrip, where opinion seems equally divided about the drive through red tyres.

I can't check where the cuts are until tommorow. I would prefer "on" but if that gives people cuts when they
drive through the barrels then they need to be off.
This is really annoying, I can't do any testing at all, so I am going from memory, and in a test race offline
I had no cut warnings when driving to the wall edges.

Well I still need some practise at this circuit so tonight I'll turn online cuts on and do some laps deliberately driving through as many barrels as possible and see if I get a warning.

You will get a penalty, if you try to go too far to the left as you approach the first chikane, that's about it I believe. Actually it's the only spot where you might gain a lot of time comparred to other version of this track.

If you get your braking points right and hit the most straight ( and dangerous  :death:) raceline though the chikanes, you'll get below 2.00.00 easily. But above all, I think you need to stay out off trouble here .... or else  :hang:

Stig

Thanks Stig and Tony, if that is the case then cuts will be on, I will confirm either later tonight if I get home in time
or tommorow.

Puuuhhh - 2.09.9 in the Ferrari until now - but without cutting...

OK Gents. Surfers Paradise now running online with cuts ON.

You get the chance to try it out and find if any cut detection will ruin your race, or not.

EDIT: With cuts on you will be penalised if you take the left hand of the barrier route at turn 1. Other than that I couldn't get a cut anywhere. I say keep cuts on.

well done Tony, hopefully give it a run later this eve.

With or without, my brain wont allow me to deliberately head through those tyre stacks! I do too many track days where the modern way is to stick a pile of bolted tyres right on the flipping apex to deter people cutting, and it certainly makes you hold your breath when you pass within inches of them in your own car!  :o Even collected some red paint on my right front bumper edge at Snett back in the summer  :sweatdrop:

Ok, I managed to get some laps in tonight, and as Tony says if you drive through the red tyres/barrels at T1 chicane
you will be ok. More left than that and you will get a cut track, i couldn't find any other cuts anywhere else. I am
not happy with it, but we will allow driving through red tyres/barrels . Anywhere else please keep two wheels on the black
There are red tyres at some places with proper raised kerbs, cutting those doesn't seem to produce a cut track
but throws the car around so much it's not any particular advantage. Cut track will be on, play within these
guidelines  and you won't have any trouble except the mental closing eyes when ramming the ghost tyres.  :o
 

So is it just a matter of don't hit the walls?

At the first chicane you will get a CUT TRACK if you go left of the first pile of RED things.

You can go off track and drive through the red things on the right.

But what about the exit from the chicane?  No red things and a red and white curb some distance from the wall.  Are we driving to the wall or the curb?

Don't see any point in getting picky over that curb just because it hasn't got any daft red things behind it.

I agree, it is hard to not go close to the wall on the exit of the previous part.

I am not happy with all this "official" kerb cutting, but we either drive to the track
or we drive to the painted kerbs. It is easier, and the track works better if we
just drive to the walls. People have been practicing driving to the walls
it's not appropriate to start setting new rules now.
Just drive to the walls, but don't go too far left on the approach to the 1st chicane
or you get cut tracks, and eventually black flagged.
I would prefer if the track had been properly built with cut tracks at all painted kerbs
but it isn't, so just drive as if they weren't there, and the track is fast and fun.

Is the server down, or is it just me who can't spot it ?

Stig

Was up last night. lemme go look

EDIT:
Host had rebooted for WIndows Auto Update.... have turned off auto update. and started Proper Practice with race passwd

Well that was a waste of a lot of time.

At the end of qually my graphis all went weird.

The curbs changed to light blue and it looked like I was in LEGOLAND.

I had no pit screens and guessed how much fuel I had in.

When we started it was all strange and the treads of the other cars were bright red!

With all this going on I managed to lock the brakes and clobber the first chicane.

Engine dead and an early bath.

Was doing so well then hit a wall. Somehow inevitable.

SOunds like hot graphics card. I failed to take my own advice, managed to get through the fast chicanes ok, but then
braked wrong into a slow one, and thumped the nose, minor damage so waited and set off again, only to get it
even more wrong on the next lap, clipped the edge of the inseide wall and 0% early bath
When I left John was just in front with Stig close behind. MJ made it to 3rd after Tony's demise.
Messy track on reflection, might try a different version later in the season if I can find a good one.
John was warping a lot, and Stig was having to give lots of room, I left to make the conn a bit easier

Three left after 10 laps :-(

Damned ...... had a great battle with John, and then lag hell broke loose .... what a shame, I had great fun.

Stig

Damn, shame about that. I got the 'synchronizing game' message a couple of times but I could still see Stig fine in the mirror, so assumed he could see me OK as well. Hope it didn't cause any problems  :(
Alex was the last man standing when I left  :thumbup1:

Great racing by the way, Stig  :)

a total waste of an event  :(  9 runners, 6 after about 2 laps. Then 4 others left at 6 laps. I parked up and retired as had nobody to race after early carnage.

Might be worth publicising these events on No grip as well.

Apologies for the nudge at the beginning Tony, could not avoid you.
Big apologies for Mark and Eifel. Got it all wrong at the first chicane (after qually+prac) without incident.
Stuck in the middle of the track after blind corner. Amateur night  :(

Thanks for waiting Matt and/or Tony.
 

Results and replay posted

Not what I had hoped for. Ah well the next one is less hazardous
And... grats to the winner! ALex is leading the series  ;D

Forgettable night for me too.
Some smooth laps with new pb as usual but in lap 9 one short instant of
carelessness - kissing the wall, race over.

Grats to Alex who did 14 laps alone for winning this one!

Concerning the low turnout at the moment I found out accidentally that there
is a parallel GTL event/Championship over a GC in which at least Geoffers participates
(no detailed information right now, because CG is blocked as not secure by the virus scanner
at my office  ???)

Should we do some advertising over there too?
I announce the PnG events over at Evomodding.
What about the other "missing guys"?

See you next time.

Congratulations to Alex on the win.

Well done that man!

Ade = Hardware probs
Bill = Recovering from Cold
Manteos = Clashing league event
Legzy = Work shifts

Yeh there is a bit of a clash at the moment with SROUK & GC running their GTL/P&G events on the same evenings. On Mondays the GTL races here clash with the GC GTL Mini series & on Thursdays the P&G races clash with the GC GTL (G)TC 65 series. This didn't used to be a problem when there were plenty of people racing, but as GTL & P&G are getting older, the numbers racing are getting smaller. Eventually I think the groups racing these 2 sims are going to have to get together & come up with a schedule of which nights they each race on to avoid these clashes & bolster the numbers.

I think P&G will get a resurgence when v3 eventually comes out.

Congrats to Alex on the win & staying the distance, real dedication. :clap: :clap: :clap:

It was my daughters 3rd birthday and had some guests over. Otherwise I would have joined.
And now it seems I missed the first victory of my teammate and our Team. :thumbup2: :notworthy: :thumbup2:

We'll have a dram of whisky to celebrate this moment later on. :turned:

Thanks guys. Guess this is my '15 minutes of fame'.

Eerie experience when I finally parked the car. Champagne magnums gone, empty grandstands, pitbabes gone and pitcrew fallen asleep  :-\
Must admit I rather finish last two laps down with some cars running than 'winning' like this.

Hope we can arrange some kind of schedule to avoid clashes with other series.

 

lol

Tony was right. I had another championship race in the italian ROTW P&G champ, so I was unable to compete here.

I remember that Mogget (GC) elected as a race day Tuesday, and I was able to join a good 80% of it, but Thursdays for me are becoming busy, and even the next week I will have a Special Event in the ROTW champ, so I will not be able to join even the next one :(

I'm sorry about this, but I can do nothing but join the events in which I have the free Thursday at the moment :( If you think to change the day, for me Tuesday is the best one, and I can assure my 80% of it, as it was during the past year in GC. Mondays & Wednesdays I have similar problems of Thursdays, but with other commitments :)

I agree with Geoffers when he says that probably P&G 2.1 is getting older, and racers smaller. I guess that the GTLW should give us a fresh product in a very small time, cause when rF2 will be modded, GT3 will be out, and even the sequel of NetKar pro (named "Assetto Corse") will be ready, P&G v3 risks to be eaten by the new production, and the GTLW work totally wasted.
Personally, I can't understand the GTLW "politics" at the moment, they're going on to pay attention on flows nitpick, releasing videos and photos of the ignition key inside the cockpit, but the substance is that they're wasting time. P&G 3 risks to become an encyclopedia in this way, not a race simulation to play with. It's only a personal thought.

P.S Grats to Alex for the Victory! You're the "Last Survivor"  ;D ;D

NOthing is cast in stone for which night we run GTL and P&G
We have occasional series with Race07 on Weds, we had the F1 88 series on Tuesdays
At the moment Tues and Weds seem free. Friday or Saturday are not traditionally
good night for this sort of thing, people have other stuff to do then.
It seems whichever night we pick there will be a clash with something
Ideally we would not run two nights running. But we can change if we choose to.
Tues GTL and Weds P&G would be too close IMHO
Thoughts anyone?

What size of grids are GC (Gamers Crib?) getting? and is Mogget a main contact? Anyone have an email address for him/her?

It would seem that an opening of dialogue between our two organisations would be the logical course of action thus potentialy doubling our race grids.

Yes, there are too many places to race and not enough racers! but that's stating the bleedin' obvious...

For someone who likes GTL/P&G in a European timezone (and in English), off the top of my head I can think of Monday, Thursday, Saturday GTL at GC. Sunday, Wednesday and Tuesday (while the F1 season is on) GTL/P&G at NG. Monday, Thursday GTL/P&G here at SROUK. And there's also the casual GTL pickup races on Fridays at GC and a Saturday GTL season on at the moment at SJ.

That's every day of the week catered for, some of them more than once over! In my opinion, interleague championships are the way to go. The last NG/SJ one had a very good turnout and was nearly full to capacity some weeks.

I've been racing nearly three years now, so was a bit late to the party, so to speak. I gather I missed the heydays when these games were released, but even in that time I've noticed grids declining steadily  :(

PS - Mods, I'm not trying to advertise the events above, just trying to illustrate the problem that SROUK and other sites face. Please let me know if it is viewed as that and I'll remove the post.

Wednesday is MARA night for me but there is no current series.

Whilst I welcome the chance to drive every Thursday it isn't going down too well in other quarters.

If CG, MARA and UKPnG could get together to fill up every Wednesday (When I'm on my todd and not getting moaned at) and alternate Thursdays (not the ones when Manteos is elsewhere) with PnG then that would be great!  ;D  Thimple!

We operate an open door policy here John. Unlike other sim racing sites that refuse to accept the mention of other leagues on their precious sites (you know who you are  :whistling:)

I guess that the only way to improve the number of drivers is to cooperate with other leagues at the moment. In Italy this year the 2 biggest leagues of GTR 2 decided to unify the champ in only one great league, to do the biggest league ever done in Italy with GTR2, and the result was the registration of 100 drivers, divided in 4 servers. Simply amazing :)

I was quite unhappy with Mogget's decision to stop organizing champ with P&G on GC, despite of the good turnout every race (20 or more racers per race). That said, Mogget was tired of the "old" v2.1, and that caused the shutdown of the GC forum section of the P&G apart for a couple of topics opened by Geoffers lately in this period to invite some GC users on NoGrip events, that are running on the GC servers if I'm not wrong.

However, as it was for the GTR2 Italian champs in 2010/11, in which the drivers were divided in 2 main different leagues with approximately 150 drivers, even the ROTW P&G champ experienced an half grid compared to the 2010/11 champ, from 42 drivers to 24 this year. We can do nothing about this, except to try to unify more than one site in a bigger thing, or things will stay as they are at the moment.

About the P&G, it's even more complicated, cause if I see the example of the VDA team, only 4-5 people have the v2.1 installed on their pc, instead of 10-12 people in previous years, in which I was able to organize even some fun event from time to time. Watching at the turnout during the last season here, the situation in terms of drivers is not so different.
So, the options is only one. Advertise races in every Simracing website, and see if we reach a larger amount of drivers. I bet we will ;)
Evenmore I guess that when the v3 will be released, it will raise a bit the number of drivers.

I hope the league admins here (Tony & Matt) will try to contact other sites, and sort these things out. Easy to say, but difficult to realize... I know.

just a thought Manteos, but why not combine our league and yours for thursday P&G fun, being that both run on the same eve?  :)

Simply impossible Mark. The champ is already started, and we ran just 3 races. Evenmore we are 24 drivers each race, and there will be place only for 4 drivers on the server, so... I think you've already figured out where I'm going ;)