SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL Season 22 GT Teams Championship
Race 6 Pacific Raceways

 Race number 6 and the start of the second half of the season with everything still in the balance for the team championship. Pacific Raceways has been around in GPL for a long time and has always given some excellent racing although we have nor tried the GT's there until now.

There is usually a pinch point at the right hand kink just after the start line, but as we shall be using a "rolling start" cars should be spaced out a little before they reach that problem area..but it might be wise to give each other plenty of room in the early laps.

The point at which the racing will start on the rolling lap will be as cars ENTER the S/F straight at Turn 9, this is quite a way before the start line so BE PREPARED ;)
 
Please check the Season 22 pages for details (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=335&theme=6) regarding rules and the GT Teams Championship (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=338&theme=6) pages in particular.

Reserve drivers should not join the server until there are only 30 minutes of qualifying left so as to give the FULL TIME drivers chance to join, and drivers are not to go out on track until there are 30 minutes of qualifying left as this helps all drivers join the server successfully.

Please restrict chat to pit messages if necessary, and this includes the end of the race, until all running drivers have completed the necessary laps.

The GT races are run under Int Long rules and there will be full moderation of lap one Red Zone and reported incidents for the rest of the race, however the moderators reserve the right to review any incident. Drivers are reminded that they are limited to ONE Shift-R

Please submit incident reports within a week after the race so that the moderators report may be out before the next race.

Race List = iGOR
Server = T7_2
IP address =62.149.202.168
Race date = 26/02/2011
Time = 21:00 UK time
Track = Pacific Raceways
Variant = GT mod
Damage Model = Int
Qualifying time = 30 minutes
Race length = 30 laps
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

There will be rolling starts for all races with full moderation of both the warm-up and first lap.

Guidelines for rolling starts...

The car on pole will lead off the grid and maintain a steady pace for the 1st lap around 175kph
All drivers should form up in single file behind him leaving 3-4 car lengths between each car.
There is NO OVERTAKING on the 1st lap until the exit of the last corner.
It is the reponsibility of the lead car to ensure that all drivers are with him as he approaches the final corner.
Racing and overtaking begin AFTER the exit of the last corner, so you may overtake between the exit of the last corner and the S/F line.

Any driver who loses his position on the rolling lap, by going off, blowing his engine or through contact with another car ( regardless of fault) must rejoin at the back of the field.
Incidents on the rolling lap ( Lap 1) will be fully modded and anyone found to have caused another competitor to lose position through bad driving will be penalised appropriately.
Also, please make sure that you know which car you should be following on the rolling lap, so that you do NOT get out of position.

The teams have been chosen and the cars are polished and ready to go.

TEAMS

GT International Team
Juha Hallikainen, David Rainier, Axel "Cookie"   
Cars                     
Ford Mk2B, Ford Mk2B, Lola T70 MkIII


Team 7
Fulvio Policardi, S2173, Samb
Cars
Lola T70, Mirage M1, Porsche 910


Hiki Waza Racing
EvilClive, Nigel Smith, FMG?
Cars
Porsche 910, Lola, Ford GT40 Mk4


Clark Hill Racing
Al Heller, King Hiro, Bartosz/Vosblod
Cars
Mirage M1, Lola T70, Porsche 910


Team Green
Doni Yourth, Phil Thornton, Jason Blito
Cars
Ferrari, Ford GT40 Mk2B, Porsche 910


Team Godzilla
Alex Barresi, Mark75 Barresi, Badblood   
Cars                     
Ford Mk2B, Ford Mk2B, Ford Mk2B



Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=338;theme=6)

Password: see above (#post_event_password)

I will put up the spreadsheet of chassis usage later this weekend.

I can't make the race due to a longstanding commitment (which will be a relief to my team mates!)

Go Godzilla!!!

No link to forthcoming, no pw visible
no pw, no party :)
Ciao

P.S.
T7 server is set for 30 laps Long race and listening on Igor on Console session.

I just made the PW visible...

... i'd have rather you hadn't Axel.
This race was the last straw for me - I've now uninstalled the GT mod and wont re-install until its fixed.

Hard luck Jason.  I had a bit of bad luck too.  Someone got rear ended on the warm-up lap.  I slowed right down but couldn't avoid a gentle tap on the stationary car and I ended up on my roof.  Had to shift R and do a S&G.  I started to work my way backup the field from last and was looking forward to a battle with Geoff when the brake bug bit and I was off.  I got stuck in the fly paper disguised as a hedge.  Having already taken my shift R I was out  >:(.

Hope Doni fairs better, not a good race for Team Green  ::)

Disconnect. As usual I hope for a massdisco but no. Couldn t even get into IGOR the first 5 mins.

Disco'd :(

Was really enjoying that, and was leading by a country mile to boot  ::)

Disco also for me.

good quali but not so good race start , soon as Tim raised from the back and start breath to my neck i make a mistake on corner just before finish straight , hit the wall and i think car did got small damage. I could continue and tried to catch Tim, unfortunately i did see a traffic jams too much and hit one of slower cars on main straight. sorry about that , dont see who it was  i havent watch reply yet.

no disco for me but it was close , race lap 20-25 ?  red connection bar raised temporarily high.

Juha

A fun track!  It certainly suited the small-bore class.

Grats to Juha, Al and Mark for nailing down the podium slots.  Well done.

This isn't my race report.  Just a few notes as a preamble.

I have to declare that I'm very pleased to have finished the event with vision virtually intact.  YIPPPEEE!  Staying off the computer during much of the day really paid off.  Only in the very late stages was there a slight sag in focus.  Clearly, it's the thing to do.

Now having stated that my vision was great, I have to confess that I did not see Alex burning up on my right on the run into T1 for the actual race start.  My attentions were riveted to Tim's 910 just ahead.  A kinda doubt that Alex would have made the corner with me on the outside.  Just look what happened to Mark seconds later when he came in there full blast.  Anyway, there was an almighty prang that sent both of us BIG TIME.  I thought that I'd collected Tim in all this but see by my replay cap that was off thanks to clipping a cone by going wide in T1.  I got back onto the track just in front of him and thought it rather a shabby way to gain a spot so let him by shortly thereafter.  If I'd only known that Tim's off was his own doing, I wouldn't have let him by!    :laugh:

On L6, I bungled the lead onto the main straight, clipped a cone and spun to the outfield.  I noted that my pitboard had posted that I had a six-second advantage on Mark and in recoverying, looked downtrack to see if he was coming.  Nope.  I had the brainy idea to pull out across the track and get straightened round before he arrived on the scene.  IDIOT!  Grrr...  I commited the worst of all sins by pulling straight across Mark's bow and he had absolutely nowhere to go.  WAMO!  I am so sorry for that, MB.  To say that it was all my fault is stating the obvious.  I'll accept whatever penalty due me without protest.  I'm at least relieved to see that Mark was able to continue more or less on pace and indeed scored an admirable P3.  Good show...considering.

Axel and I had a stout coming together with a comprehensive T-boning down in T2.  WOWEE!  NP, Cookie.  You were just a passenger aboard an unguided missle.  :)

Hi guys,
Jason what's the problem you had you were telling about ?
Why the mod have to be fixed ? In any case, if there is a bug inside the GT mod we all have it, it is only a matter of problem management neither more nor less so don't be so frustrated about any problable GT's bug, I've any sort of problem drivig all the remaining GT's cars but the Porker ! ::) :P ;) Expecially with the Fezza that bahaves like a kind of whale in my hands !  :P

I think the 'bug' is the braking Sergio. For what it is worth, I just fell that it is what it is. Can't say I am in love with the GTs. They exceed my skill and I have limited time so I think I will concentrate on the Tuesday evening series and the occasional Friday outing.

I must apologise to my team mates but I am finding it impossible to do Sunday nights. The kids are at an age where school the next day is a big issue on Sundays and it is unfair to my wife at the moment. Give it a few years and I will be able to do it again. Anyone fancy taking my slot?

Apologies also that I was unable to put up the spreadsheet but we are having building work and my main PC is not connected. Hence I can't race and I had to start the server really early etc etc.

Happy to keep starting the server and doing the imports but I just can't free up two hours at that time :(

As for the race, replays are in the usual place (here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/replays/archive/season22/GTs)) but you will have to go via direct FTP access for a few days until I can update the web site. That won't be until Wednesday.

Yep, I've figured it out that was the brake issue, because I already gave Jason a few suggestions on how to avoid that problem but, unfortunately it seems they were not enough for him, anyway some time they are not the best also to me but...I try to survive to my Porker as well.  ;)

I confirm your words, and apologize for hitting your car (luckily this event dont compromise your race).
I used my engine to put beside your car before T1 convinced that you had seen me, but so not was.

There is a brake problem in these cars, but i cant be sure if its a bug... And basicly, i have been able to handle it. It was specificly bad in the two hairpins, but I found out that the brake "bug" can be avoided, if you take care to NEVER brake with your steering wheel centered... I followed that rule, and I didnt get locked brakes in the race.

About the race itself... I finally got a real mouse instead of touchpad (which is a bit broken), and I was afraid I would drive too twitchy, since im not used to it, but not the case... I didnt do almost any errors besides at the end, and I was even pretty fast amongst all these aliens in the top 10... My teammates forgot to practice for the track, and were slower than me... The motion sickness hit me again around the middle of the race, and I wouldnt be able to survive the whole race like that... but I found out that focusing in details in cockpit (the stains on the steering wheel) helps alot. Then at the end of the race I was almost asleep and couldn't focus, and that allowed Samb and Fulvio to pass me. They wont be redfaced now for being slower than the novice in the team...

Overall, GT races seem to be the races with least retirements and best racing of all, but with that motion sickness i get with them I really don't enjoy them too much...

Btw, is there really a bonus if all 3 drivers of a team finish? That was the main reason I actually finished all the races... often with car no good even for the junkyard... but i cant see anything like that in the results. Is that calculated later, or its not true altogheder? If theres no bonus, and if the last driver of the team doesnt score... I wasted my time really bad.

I am a GT driver by heart and I love this mod!

Yes there is a "braking bug" and Martin gave us the best explanation for it -> handbrake!

But with some more practicing you will learn to avoid it.
I am not with you, Sky, as I am allways trying to brake my beasts in a straight line!
I do use the engine to brake a lot in downshifting and try to avoid to floor the brake pedal.
Last night I had not a single brake failure in 30 laps with the MK2...

Luckily I survived the rolling lap unharmed but with a great gap, after the spin of Clive in T6...
With some little mistakes I kept my position around 8-10 when Doni came from behind in his Porky and just caught me before the "straight".
This was not a good idea, as my big banger had a lot more speed to come and into T1 I ran wide to the left on the gras unable to slow down.
Midst T2 I t-boned Doni and ended on the roof, SORRY!
Shift+R and Stop+Go let me loose some more places. But with this sudden mass disco I finaly got 8th  ::)

Grats Juha for the win and David for surviving this challenge! 

All three drivers must use each chassis three times - if they don't there is a BIG penalty. In the race each driver scores, so your time was not wasted :)

After skilfully converting pole position into a big fat zero at the last round :-\ I was keen to rack up some solid team points here so my primary aim was just getting to the finish line in one piece. Just like Rouen, Mark easily swept past me in his GT40 down the straight soon after the start however my Porsche was proving pretty handy through the twisty bits & I was able to stay close behind him for the next few laps. This gave me a ringside seat for Mark's unfortunate tangle with Doni & returned 4th place to me with the handy addition of a few seconds breathing space. I tried to make the most of the gap & got my head down to push as hard as I dared, but I guess Mark had incurred some damage because I found I was gradually able to eke out a 10 second advantage. Many thanks to those being lapped, especially Dave, for letting me by so cleanly.

Congrats to Juha on his hat-trick of GT wins & Mark getting to the podium in that big beast. My commiserations to anyone who disco'ed (especially teamie King Hiro who was running brilliantly in the Mirage) - it's happened to me loads of times so I know what a sickener it is.   

Poor effort from me overall. I was quite shocked at how quick everyone was. I thought I was going all guns blazing but found myself a mired in 9th. Still, I thought this track may claim some poor souls over the course of the race so thought I'd just keep my head down and drive a respectable, error-free race  :smartass:.

Well.....that plan went out the window when I managed to spin on the warm-up lap, collecting my team-mate Fulvio  :oops:. From then on I had some good battles with a few people, and lapped steadily to the end. Was very fortunate to finish 4th after all my adventures. Hard luck to anyone that suffered a disco.

Any chance the replay can be posted? I'd like to see how bad my connection was as apparently I was jumping about like a frog at some points.

EDIT: Just re-read Paul's message properly! Apologies for being an arse.

Just use it or finish with it? Cause I often had the incentive to use my car for a tree/fence/haybale decoration...

"g) All drivers must drive all 3 cars that the team has purchased at least 3 times during the 10 race season. If a driver competes in all 10 races he will be able to drive 1 of the cars 4 times.
h) Points will be awarded as last season, so getting all 3 drivers to the finish will increase the team score.
j) At the end of the 10 race championship any TEAM which has not complied with rule "g"  will have its BEST TEAM points result of the season cancelled.
k) Each driver will drop his worst 2 results, in line with the other championships, this gets over the problem of missed races and 2 man teams looking for a sub at the last minute."

the h) point seems to suggest some bonus... and g) point seems to say that a team will be penalized if driving a car more than 4 times, not that it will be penalized if driver fails to drive a car atleast 3 times?

Paul is absolutely correct ...every driver in a team scores points. That is why the format makes the team share the cars, to make sure that you don't just give the fastest chassis to the resident alien and sacrifice the other 2 drivers. If the points system works out as I intended when I concocted this championship, the winning margin will probably be dependent upon those points scored by the novice drivers throughout the season. So, getting each car to the finish is important in every race. Of course , disco's don't exactly help that plan :-\

Jason says he has given up fighting this "braking bug" , by which I assume he means the tendency for the car to plough straight on when braking hard??? I think we have all been caught out by that and to begin with I found it VERY annoying.  I tried to alter the setups to get rid of it but it took me a while to get a feel for the setup parameters in the GTs.
In the race last night I had the dubious honour of driving the Mk4 Ford (possibly the worst car for slowing and turning into a corner) and at a track with hairpin bends and downhill braking at the end of a very long straight into a 180 deg corner, things did not look too promising.

However, I have been trying to come to terms with the braking issue on these GT's and I spent a couple of short practice runs on Saturday working on eliminating the problem. I did not have a single brake problem all race and I was pushing that Mk4 as hard as I dared. This is how I worked my way around it:-

First of all, I have thought for a long time that this braking bug felt just the same as the effect you get in the 67 GP cars when the front suspension bottoms out. Total loss of steering and control.  :o

So I upped the front spring rates and tweaked the front bump and rebound up a couple of notches too. I also reduced the bump rubbers to allow the suspension to work without coming up against anything solid. Then I raised the ride height by a few notches, maybe only 12 cms but just enough to let things work. I also upped the rear bump rebound, but reduced the spring rates slightly to get a better balance .

2nd  I moved the brake balance back to about 50% to avoid locking the front wheels, but found that I although I was not getting the blocked brakes syndrome, the rear end was tending to take a path of its own into corners. So I nudged the brake balance bit by bit back to about 55% in gradual stages until I had a stable car under me. I should mention here that it was noticeable that at Pacific Raceways it took about 3 laps to get the tyres up to a working temp and that made a BIG difference to the handling. If I pushed hard on an "out lap" I invariably crashed!!

3rd  The Mk4 Ford is a heavy beast to get to turn in, so I played with diff and clutch settings to give me "power on" oversteer. The hope being that I could brake and set the car up for a corner without scrubbing off too much speed and then use that enormous engine to force the car to hold a tight line as I squeezed the gas. I think my final diff setup was 45/45 and 5 clutches

It took a few trial runs and tweaks to tyre pressures and toe in/out to finalise the setup but eventually I had a beast of a car more or less under control. Rather than standing on the brake pedal I found it better to start braking a little earlier than usual and ease the car smoothly into the corner using a final downshift to kick the tail out and set it up for the apex. Then a squirt of power would push the nose towards the inside of the curve and I could begin to apply acceleration. On the two sharp hairpin bends T2 & T3 I could actually tweak the gas and make the car rotate to align with the exit and accelerate away.

I did not get the "brake problem" even once during the race. Whether that was because of the setup, or my driving, or a combination of both I cannot be sure but it worked and on a twisty track I might have been getting a 6th or 7th place if the disco devil had not got involved, but that is racing for you.

Jason, I saw you in qually having some serious directional control issues and it might be good to post your setup here on the forum, just so that we can see what you were fighting. Naturally you will get 27 conflicting solutions but you might also find that things in a tin top are not so bad when you can make it go in the direction that you wanted?

And now our GT International team is 1st !!!
...but this is not thank to me :)

I was disconnected after 20 laps ...and for the 1st time I was really happy disco happened to me !!
I will try to do all the GT season for my team ...but it will be the last GT season for me (except if can drive 910 and P4 only)

I suppose that you could interpret rule h) as inferring that there were some extra points available, but what it was intended to highlight was that getting all team cars to the finish has to be the best way to rack up points for the team championship. Generally, I have noticed that drivers do tend to nurse their cars to the finish or at least until they expire to try and claim as many points as they can..which is good.

Rule g) is worded that way for a very good reason. Yes you will be penalised for driving a car more than 4 times ( unless of course your team has chosen 2 or 3 cars of the same type!) but, if you miss a couple of races you might not be able to drive each car 3 times and there is no penalty for not racing, just a loss of potential points for the team. If you only compete in 8 races then it would be impossible to drive each car 3 times, but you would still be penalised if you tried to run the same car in 4 of those 8 races.

I think next season the GT races will have to be reviewed if we are going to accommodate the F2's into our packed race schedule. I am not saying that anything has been decided but I suspect that there will be ample opportunity for a discussion on what we do in the future. So maybe you will get your wish Juha..or maybe not. ::)

Dave you do just fine when finishing, and now you have "better" car for  next race . ;) dont give up ...

F2's or GT's are just fine mods for me !  ;D

"... to make sure That you do not just give the fastest chassis to the resident alien and sacrifice the other 2 drivers. If the points system works out as I Intended When I concocted this championship, the winning margin will be dependent Probably Those upon points scored by the novice drivers throughout the season ... "
So Nigel will use Lola in the next two races and Ford in the last two? That 's what you mean?
Because I hear a little voice that tells me this will not happen, and you and Tim will have, in turn, the best car in the coming races.
The current rules are forcing slowest drivers in worst car in each track, if a team look to champ classification.
I know that I am caustic, but I enjoy it less and less, there is little to do, and I'd rather complain now to try to improve things in the future.
Now, time to laugh, and this was my setup in this race (imperial measures, no problem with brakes):
tyres pressure: 20 F, 24 R;
springs & sway bars: all at 300, F&R;
shocks: 8/12 F, 8/12 R;
bump rubbers: all at min (0.5 inches);
camber & convergence: all at zero;
ride heights: 3.00 F, 2.5 R;
differential: 60/60/1.
In my experience, brake problem with GT cars happen when there is a long and hard braking phase.

We need to have a think about what will happen with the GTs next season because at the moment, there are two GT championships - next season we don't have room for that if we want to race the F2's (and we do). The mid season review (argument!) is due shortly - once Round 6 is out of the way we will get the ball rolling.

Thanks for your comments Alex, but I think you need to watch how the cars are used by each team for the rest of the season  ::) As Tim has said if any team had selected the 2F then that should have been the fastest car at most circuits, but no-one risked paying their tokens for that car, deciding instead to try and get 3 good cars to share around their team mates?. Maybe next season I will increase the tokens available just a little to see if some people can be tempted to buy a Chap 2F??

The rules were designed to stop the slowest drivers having to take the slowest cars for every race Alex. Your team made a very clever move by selecting 3 x Mk2 Fords so that you did not have the problem of making sure that no driver used a single car more than 4 times. I am sure that other teams will tell you that it is not as easy as you might think to organise the drivers and cars to comply with that rule for all 10 races.
Certainly each team wants to maximise the points that it can score in any race..that is why we are racing, but as I said before, the best way to accumulate points is to get all 3 cars to the finish in every race. Sacrificing the slower drivers so that one driver can go for the win, whilst the other 2 finish at the tail of the field is not as good as getting 3 cars into the top 10 finishers?

I don't think I can be accused of taking "the best car" for Pacific Raceways Alex  :-\ I doubt that anyone would choose the Ford Mk4 for a circuit like that.

Because the Hiki Waza team has 3 different cars,and we have to make sure that all of our drivers drive each car at least 3 times, this means that Nigel will actually have the Lola for 3 races in the second half of the season and looking at the tracks we have yet to race that is not so bad? I get the Lola for only 1 more race :-\ and yes, I will be trying to score maximum points when I drive that car.
When I have to drive the Porsche I know that I am unlikely to be fast enough to challenge the MK2s, Lolas and Ferraris etc, but then I try and beat all of the other Porsch drivers and maybe just one or two of the other cars and score as many points as I can for the team.

My idea was to try and create a TEAM, race not an individual championship, (we have enough of those already) and I wanted to try something different.
It may not be perfect and I am quite prepared to change things for next season. We may have to make some major changes if we are to start an F2 championship, because we do not have enough evenings to fit in all of our current championships.
 I know that it sounds easy to "just change things now", but the way the whole race/points/championship/teams thing is set up behind the scenes makes that a huge problem for the moderators. In a few weeks we will have our mid season review and we ask all members to comment on what they like and don't like about the current season. If enough members want a certain change and it is possible to make it happen, then the mods will do all they can to implemet those chages for the next season.


BTW I agree with your comment about "long hard braking" these GT cars do not seem to like drivers standing on the brake pedal  :-\ and you  and Mark definitely seem to have the Mk2 Ford  running very fast.

Now i understand everything.
That little girl who greets me at every race from the pits is called Alice.
The white cars that i see on track are not Porsche, but versions (detuned) of the White Rabbit DoubleTurbo Intercooler.
The flock that flew in circles above Rouen was not composed of swallows, but elephants, with Dumbo leading the group.
Now it's all clear for me, will not be necessary to say anything else; it will be enough, in case, read the book of Bedtime Stories.

Modding published

Hi guys.

Can you please tell me at which section of the track the discos/ freezes/ ctds happend?
Ginetto might have a look on the track again and check for errors.

We (GPLRACER) also recently had some freezes running 66 mod.
With 65 mod we never had any problems.
But as we know this can be different with the mods.

Cheers
Stefan

Hi Stefan,

I will run through the replay again and give you the positions where drivers got disco'd within the next couple of days.

Hope that Ginetto can do a quick fix as this circuit is usually great fun.