SimRacing.org.uk

The summer slumber is over, but there's still time to hit the beach as we head to the sand dunes of Zandvoort in Holland. Phil Thornton announced his title tilt with a win last time at Zolder, but the flying Frenchman David Rainier has a thirty point lead over his challengers as we head into the meat of the season.

Race list	iGOR
Server	UKGPL_T7_2
IP address	62.149.202.168
Date	02-09-2012
Race time	Race starts at 21:30 UK time
Qualifying time	Between 30 and 60 minutes, starting no later than 21:00 UK time
Track	Zandvoort
Mod	67
Damage model	INT
Race length	35 laps
Replay	Available here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/replays/Archive/Season23/Grads_Privs/S23_Grads_Privs_R04_2012_09_02_Zandvoort.rar)

Reserve drivers please note; you must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes, to allow full timers to join.

The red zone will be fully moderated for lap 1 only. For this event the red zone will be from the start line to the exit of turn 4, Lucien Bianchi Bocht. Other moderation will be on reported incidents only.

The chassis token system is explained on the Privateers (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=361&theme=6) standings page. Please ensure you choose a chassis that is within your budget, which can be seen by hovering the mouse over your points total in the standings.

Ehm Zandvoort or Zolder?  ;)

Anyway I've set T7 server for 35 laps Long race at Zandy with OpenGL.
Ciao

Corrected the race post! Thanks Fulvio.

Results and replay uploaded. Incident reports by 9th September please.

Qually was quite competitive, I had to push hard and just managed to secure second spot on the grid on my very last qualifying lap.  Race start was clean for me but in my mirrors I'm sure I saw a Ferrari spin off at Tarzan. I assumed it was Allan Davis so that left Cookie behind and Hendy up front.  Hendy was setting a good pace but a bit ragged in places so I decided to bide my time and wait for the Honda to cook it's tyres (it usually does).  The Honda was very quick on the straight but after a few laps I managed to get a better exit out of Pulleveld and got along side Hendy into Tarzan.  Despite having the inside line I couldn't make the pass stick and Hendy had the inside for Gerlachbocht and I had to yield.  I tried the same move next lap and this time I got through.  From then on I kept pushing hard to maintain a gap and hoped I'd put enough fuel in the car.

I checked the results and compared them against the Div 2 race in Season 13 (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=4263.0).  I set my Ferrari PB in that race (1:26.68) and although I didn't didn't beat it, my overall race speed (not time as this race was over more laps) was much better.  It just goes to show consistency is the key.  To win a race you have to stay on the black stuff.

Grats to Hendy and Fabio.  Unlucky Allan and Cookie, you had the pace; it took a mighty effort to get past you in qually.

It was my very first "official" race with my new G27 and I made lot of mistakes !
After a first shift-R due to engine exploded, I collided with Fabio and had to give up :(
 
I hope it will be better in Snetterton !

Grats to Phil, winner and new leader of the championship.

Did my qualifying in the first ten minutes, then had a rest.  Only Hendy  ahead of me until the last lap when Phil just pipped my time by .01 to put me back to third.   There was so much noise on the grid that I couldn't hear my own engine and bogged down at the start.  I then touched the grass going into Tarzan ,on the outside, and spun.    I was unable to load my setup for the Ferrari for some reason and found that the setup I had selected had too much rear brake bias for me and I kept locking up the rears approaching tarzan.   I managed to catch and pass a few cars but then spun and dropped back.  Got going again back up to fourth but then got distracted by someone spinnihg off and ran too deep into a corner and spent ages getting off the bank.   Lost concentration and spun off so many time I thought it wise to retire before I involved anyone else.
Congrats to Phil and the Podium

Just watched the replay and realised why I had such a torrid time.       My Ferrari was number 13!

First off , big sorry to Andreas for rear ending him on Lap 23

Joined the server and then find I have no set ups loaded up for this track , quite suprised by that but then realised I hadn't raced 67's here since installing GPL on my new PC so loaded my Montjuich set up and changed a few things to suit clockwise rotation , ran out of time fine tuning the car and found in the race that the brake balance was hopeless .

Never the less I enjoyed some good racing ,mostly with mirrors full of the Billy mobile followed closley by Andreas with the odd shot of a Red Rocket ( Alan )  blasting past us all untill he got to the next corner where he seemed intent on keeping the grass mowed . I found I could pull out a small lead 4/5 seconds but billy was always lurking close by , about half way I was feeling te strain and began making mistakes with 1 or 2 spins allowing both to get by me on one lap , I was playing catch up with Andreas when I got up real close on the final bend intending to pass down the straight when He got a wobble on I thought I could get up the inside but then recovered and took up his rightful position on the corner but i clipped his rear wheel and sent him off into the boondocks , Sorry again for ruining your race .

Close finish with Billy when he just pipped me on the line , fully enjoyed the racing apart from the above incedent  :-[

Grats to Phil and the pod boys

Well done to Mike for his strong finish for the Soggies   :)

Hi there,
sorry fully accepted. Those things can happen, we are racing! But maybe next time a bit more careful, right? Specially when its a "Markenkollege"!  :) And thanks to  the Shift_R Option  my Race wasn't  ruined. Only my 4th Place at that time was gone.  ;)

So long
Andreas

Hi David

Good luck with the G27.  I have a G25 and it is great.  It took me a while to set it up as I like it so you might have to experiment a bit.  The settings I use are:

In the profiler I leave all the strengths at default i.e. 100%  but set the Degrees of rotation at 418 degrees.

In core.ini I use:
steer_ratio=0
force_feedback_damping = 30
force_feedback_latency = .125 
max_steering_torque = 165   

In GPL I set steering at full linear

In setups I use steering ration of 5:1     

I also use the shifter patch that enables the "H" shifter.  More realistic than paddles but quite a challenge to master.

I would expect the G27 to be similar to the G25 so the above settings should be OK.         

Cheers

Phil

A nice one after a long summer break!
I like Zandy and I have a great setup too.

@Dave
During the race I reallydidn't realized we had a collision and I didn't checked the replay yet so I don't know what happened.
Welcome on the G27 club: I got it as a free replacement from Logitech when my former G25 shifter died and... it's great!

And last but not least... Black Night rules!!!
 :punk: :punk: :punk: :punk: :punk: :punk: :punk:

Hi Phil
thanks to share your settings, I will try to use them !
My second race with G27, tonight in Spa mod66, was way better !
So I'm quite confident for the next races :)



Hi Fabio
No problem about our collision, it was 100% my fault and I am happy you did not even realize there was a contact between our cars. 
And YES, Black night team is the best ;)

 

Glad you like the G27 just dont get too good with it or we will have to send the boys in to take it away from you  ;)

signed

another bernie

Moderation published.

Don't remember either of the incidents I've been investigated and punished for! No problem though - I must be guilty.

I think I was under the impression that a SECOND shift R needed a SnG, or I'm just getting confused between my two leagues. Either way I'll be like Maldonado and learn from my punishments...

Sorry guys.

Thx for your job Dave!

Thanks for the report

Although I accept the moderators decision I have to say I am a bit confused regards the penalty points  :-\

If an incedent occurs outside of lap one red zone is it the usual procedure for moderation to take place without an incedent report being submitted by the driver / drivers

As far as I undertand the rules any such report should give notice to those involved  so they have a chance to explain there circumstances of why the incedent occured ?

afaik in this instance no such report was submitted , the only reference to this being my apology to Andreas in the above thread and his reply to me .

Or am I missing something here .

signed

confused  ???

Hi Bernie,

Looking at the incident report (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=11033.msg199367#msg199367) Andreas submitted it on Saturday but didn't include you as one of the drivers involved, so you didn't get the email from LM2 telling you about it.

Just a reminder to everyone when submitting reports, please include all drivers involved, so they have a chance to offer their point of view.

If you want to appeal Bernie then drop Paul a line with your version of events and it might be reviewed.

Hi there,

sorry that I made some confusion here.  :(
But it was my first time here that I submitted an incident report, so I was not sure about what all to fill out and what may be not. So I hope next time I don´t miss to fill out anything. Or better I don´t have to submit anything.  ;)
Also I am a bit confused myself now.

So long
Andreas

Kind of suprised to see I was awarded "blatant rear end shunt " plus the penalty points , also didnt understand why you did that Andreas concidering the post race comments , however its your choice, so fair doos , though I would have liked the oppertunity to reply as I consider the incedent was not completely my fault.

will have to look at the replay and see why I was such a bad boy  ::)



 

Andreas, you did the right thing, and as a newbie here it's not a big deal that you didn't quite fill in the form correctly. Don't worry about it, the important thing is that you were involved in an incident and reported it, which we encourage all drivers to do. Just remember next time to add in all the drivers that were involved.

If the moderator notices a driver is missing he should probably contact him to seek his point of view, but Dave is still quite new to the moderating so I think he can be excused missing that.

Bernie can still submit his report and the mods may choose to revise the penalty.

Am I to understand you want us to report every incedent ? if so you mods are gonna be pretty busy ,

As I understand things its not long since there was a discussion about the work load the mads had to get through being so heavy it was all a bit too much , and so it was decided to mod "reported incidents only " (excluding during the redzone)  which seemed to me to make sense .

I personally dont see the point in doing this unless the driver being reported is being reckless to the point where he is a nuicance to all others or is an persistant offender or such like .

I personally dont hold any grudge with Andreas and have always enjoyed racing with him and hope to do so in the future . for what its worth we have made contact with each other before , sometime he was wrong sometimes it was me .

I admit to rear ending him but didnt think the circumstances warranted a " blatant rear end "  it was not intentional , in actual fact I was caught out by Andreas speed through the corner before the straight which was slower than usual for this corner , It looked to me as if he was sliding wide , there was a gap up the inside and I went for it  , at the same time Andreas moved back to take up the proper racing line , by the time I realised my mistake it was too late . there was no malice or intent to have Andreas off the track

Make what you want of it , if you see fit to penalise me then OK thats fine by me , I accept your decision ,  wont be putting in an appeal because I think ive said here all there is to say on the matter  :)

 

All right then,
so lets say like: After the Race is before the Race!
Looking forward to Snetterton.  :)

Sometimes moderation is not easy, ...and explanations too when english is not your native language.
That's why I made a draft of my moderation and asked confirmed moderators to have a look.

About this incident Bernie vs Andreas, the moderator who gave me his opinion, agreed with me. 
It's true I made an error not asking you, Bernie, your point of view.
But you should also have reported an incident after your collision with Andreas. Andreas had to do a Shift-R (if it was his second, hopefully not, he would have been out of the race), a stop and go and lost 3 positions.
Since your post, did you look at the replay ? 

As said , I spoke with Andreas post race and he seemed fine about it.   

Personally I'm not in favour of reporting incidents even when I have myself been a victim and had to do  S/R's .

I used to do reports ,  apart from it taking me ages due to me not being very computer literate, I found more often than not it left a bad taste in my mouth so decided not to bother anymore and leave that sort of thing to the mods .

On the subject of not doing incident reports I suggest you have a look at server replay on Lap5   0:06:59  ;)

BTW

Your English is better than a whole lot of Brits I know  :)

And yes I do appreciate the work you boys do behind the scenes  :)

On lap 5, 6:59, I was alone and spun at Tarzan.
At 7:07, I was trying to come back on the track and saw several cars coming.
So I fully stopped my car at the external side of the turn and wait, but a Honda driven by Fabio Molteni partially loose control and collided with my car.
If I am not mistaken, Fabio's car had no consecutive problem but I had to made a shift-R, and yes, I did not report this incident.

there are 2 big differences with your incident vs Andreas :
1st : I was responsible but also the only victim # you were responsible but Andreas was the only victim
2nd : nobody did an incident report # Andreas reported  



BTW, I am the moderator of Privateers 67 races ...but also one of the participants. I think this is not correct.
So I propose to the moderation team to NOT do the next privateers 67 moderations.  

I stay available, in case of need, to moderate the future races where I am not one of the racers.  



Now, I am going to report an incident I had in Spa mod 65 race before someone make any remark. ;)
 

Moltini lost control because he was trying to avoid you .
 ;D ;D ;D

To report or not to report, that is the question.
Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous overtaking...I could go on forever like this.

The problem at the moment is the inherent unfairness - Driver A is involved in an incident which is reported and is penalized; Driver B is involved in an identical incident which is not reported and thereby gains an advantage.
The ideal solution would be for races to be fully moderated as happened in days gone by but I can understand why the moderators would not wish to revert to that system. :yawn:
The options therefore seem to be not to report any incidents (which could lead to pick up style free for alls) or to report all incidents - not in order to seek revenge or retribution but simply in the interest of fair play.
As might be surmised, I favour the latter option.

It certainly is.

I rarely post about modding these days but I think in this case some historical perspective might be helpful.

When I started modding in Season 11 (that was before we were on SRou - we used Yahoo Groups) most moderators checked the race by reviewing the entire race from each driver's in-car view, noting down each incident as they were encountered (reviewing the race at x16 still takes a long time especially if there is a full grid of 19 drivers).  The advice on how to do this was a bit ad hoc so when I became Chief Mod I wrote a web page to help the other mods learn how to do it.  I described the 3 main methods the mods used.  These are listed as Method 1 (the one I was taught to use), Method 2 and Method 3 (as published here (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/moderating/moderatingarace)).  At that time there was no mechanism for reporting incidents.  The moderator reviewed the race and published the report, any appeals were subsequently handled via email.

When we moved onto SRou in Season 16 we were able to take advantage of the excellent court system where drivers could submit incident reports in advance of the moderator reviewing the race.  This way the moderator can take into account the drivers explanation before writing a report and not have to wait until an appeal was submitted.  This lead to the final moderating possibility, Method 4 - Reported Incidents.  To be honest when I wrote down this method my intention was not to encourage people to resolve their differences on the forum, thereby removing the moderators from the review process by not reporting the incident.  The intention was to seek some help from the drivers in identifying the incidents whilst obtaining their opinions at the same time.  What used to take me a long long time was trawling through the replays looking for incidents.  Deciding who was right and who was wrong should be the responsibility of the moderator not the drivers.  To reiterate the Reported Incidents method was proposed simply to save the moderator the effort in trying to identify all the incidents, not to encourage the drivers to settle matters themselves.

The question of should a driver race in the division they moderate has been raised before.  Ideally no, BUT it is not reasonable IMO for people to give up their free time unless they are content to do so.  If someone would rather moderate than drive then great, please moderate.  Given that most people don't, it is reasonable for a moderator to drive in the race.  Since they have to give up their own free time to turn up to start the server then why not race too?  There are plenty of checks in the moderating process (peer reviews) and to my knowledge nobody has ever tried to manipulate the results or incident reports for their own advantage.  After all what is the point, why would anyone want to win by cheating?  Where would the satisfaction be in that?  It is only a game; there is no prize money!