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Hendy Nichols made it two in a row at Spa and is now mounting a serious challenge to long time leaders Phil Thornton and Dave Rainier. The Privateers season is approaching a thrilling climax as the drivers head to Dijon in France.

Race list	iGOR
Server	UKGPL_T7_2
IP address	62.149.202.168
Date	04-11-2012
Race time	Race starts at 21:30 UK time
Qualifying time	Between 30 and 60 minutes, starting no later than 21:00 UK time
Track	Dijon-Prenois (dijonp81 (http://gpltd.bcsims.com/?dis=D#13))
Mod	67
Damage model	INT
Race length	37 laps
Replay	Available here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/replays/Archive/Season23/Grads_Privs/S23_Grads_Privs_R07_2012_10_14_Spa.rar)

Reserve drivers please note; you must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes, to allow full timers to join.

The red zone will be fully moderated for lap 1 only. For this event the red zone will be from the start line to the exit of Parabolique. Other moderation will be on reported incidents only.

The chassis token system is explained on the Privateers (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=361&theme=6) standings page. Please ensure you choose a chassis that is within your budget, which can be seen by hovering the mouse over your points total in the standings.

I won in Silverstone and Snetterton and defeated the Brits at home !
Now, I don't want the Brits to beat me (almost) at home ;)

there  seem to be 2 Dijon 81's  V1 or V2 ?


V2 a more accurate layout (it says)  ???

dijonp81 is the V2

merci !

It's no use crying for mercy, as the man seems to have a mission.  He also seems to have a V2, so perhaps we should start saying our prayers ? ;)

i want register for this race

Vote in the poll here (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=10775.0) Karliss and I will process your regitration.

This track does NOT like tyres. I very rarely overheat my tyres but despite playing around with the set ups both fronts go red in a matter of laps. One effective way of reducing temperatures is to tap the armco - which invariably removes the whole wheel.
Also seem to have a problem with the graphics in the pit lane - its looks like something should be there but just a row of half wheels are visible (the ones I lost during practices no doubt). Due to missing graphics you have to be very precise going through the pit lane. Suggets you practice your stop & gos.
All complaining aside I definitely prefer this one to Wigram.
Expect to be at the back of the grid for this one.

This track is Mustard  ::)

Try as I may just can't get anywhere near the AI times . Gilles must have been a genious  :)

even the pit lane has a chicane to catch the unwary , maybe have to deploy my secret weapon  :-\

thank goodness for the long respite given on the straight

(no problem with graphics here) 

 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA7NTDa8P3k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA7NTDa8P3k)

Nice track! Maybe a little to modern...
Gilles did not race in 1967 here!!! -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6sDtn8QnpFg&feature=fvwrel

I took my Montjuich setup as a base and added a little oversteer.
No problems with tyre temps or graphics here.
Bill you may have too much front brake bias, this is what makes the most of the heat.

Gilles Villeneuve finished 2nd here, and René Arnoux 3rd  (in 1979).
But almost nobody remember the name of the winner !!

JP Jaboille in a Renault , and the first ever GP win for a Turbo engine  ;)

yes, Jabouille !  with the "yellow tea pot"  :laugh:

I remember reading that Arnoux was running out of fuel, or it would've been a Turbo twosome, that day.  Hence the enhanced wheel banging.  Same thing happens to me with the teapot - at race end I sometimes find myself one teapot short! :-[

Had a little screen freeze on the grid, got it back, but had a bad flickering tray bar...

So I left after first mistake.

Quite good fun but got really motion sick - had to give up before I threw up...

I had never driven Dijon before and only downloaded the circuit half an hour before the server opened for business. I chose the Honda RA300 and slapped on the setup I had used at Kyalami some time previously and was instantly comfortable although running on race fuel in qually meant I was destined to start from the back row. I managed my usual lightning fast start and turned 18th on the grid into 13th into T1 but half way round the lap I was confronted by an almost stationary ferrari and ran into the back of it, causing me to loose more postitions. I recovered OK and set off in pursuit of the guys in front only to find once again the guys in front trying to stop in the middle of the track! More collisions! Eventually things settled down and I made places through others misfortunes and settled into a rythm, cruising to what looked like being 7th place. My tyres had other ideas however and just as I am getting lapped the front left goes " off the cliff " and Im into the barrier! After a recovery and penalty stop im In 8th and chasing Phillipe, and catching him FAST but at that speed the front left lasted only 7 laps before going red so I gave up and settled for 8th. Somehow I think the moderator will not leave me there :(

Ouch. This track definitely took me some practice to get used to. Especially with the Lotus which I don't drive very often. Long curves that lead into--more curves :D

I was hoping someone would keep Rainier off the podium to give me a chance to catch up points-wise. WD Dave & Phil.

  Congrats Winners!!!!!!

  My internet stoped in start  :'(

i enjoyed race and did everything to avoid acidents.
then  after one mistake i let pass some faster cars behind me, but for some of them room was to nqrrow and i get smashed in rear.
pit but after pit my engine clutch blow on straight and finito.
anyway after my debut in67 there is no way back to 65 mod lol.
65 mod now seems like a kid toy :)

I'll post the results later on today.

Good to see a full grid – hopefully there weren’t any late joiners who missed out.
Great choice of track, only one real resting point on the straight then a series of corners which keep the attention fixed.
Bit of a nightmare on Lap 1, I braked quite early for the lefthander before Parabolique & got tapped into the run off. There was a crash fest behind laving a gap to rejoin, until Badblood disengaged his cloaking device & I didn’t have quite enough time to react when he reappeared. (Up to the Mods to sort that out). Got a bit distracted & missed a downshift in the very next turn where the Armco removed one my tyres. This isn’t a track where you want to use your one Shift R on lap one & rejoin in last place after a SnG.
Managed to work my way up to 10th place courtesy of some retirements etc.
Great pace by Hendy (1.22 in the race!) & the podium guys.

Wow that's fast. 1:22 would give him first row start in Works race and it would be FL in a race ;)

Thats me.....


Again its me...

Soon as I joined qually and noted with amazement  the lap times being produced by Hendy , Dave , Phil and Co. I felt like packing up and going home  ::)
Even with a Lotus 1m22 is quite some lap around here IMO , I had done quits a lot of practise hear and got nowhwere near those times in spite of a PB during qually .
Now i know I'm not the fastest driver on earth but I did get to think why the gap was so large .

looking at my replay is it possible myself and others were not using the same track  judging by the amount "some cars " were being driven over the white lines .

Not sure what the rules say about this and don't wish to take anything away from Hendy's fine win , thought he drove a great race along with Phil and Dave but i do think we need a ruling for the next time we use this track .

 ???

Bernie, we had that discussion last time we were racing here and it's legal to go over those white lines: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8711.msg155396#msg155396 (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8711.msg155396#msg155396)

Not seen this track before and dont recall seeing/reading that thread but if it is the case that using the track edge was voted in the past as being OK perhaps an pre race announcement would have been prudent so we could all have been told and be on a level playing field ?

Please dont get me wrong , as i have said I do not wish to take anything away from the podium boys , nor am I asking for pealties or exclusions , but I did think it strange to see on GPLRA when compairing my lap with that of Hendy , that he was using the whole outer apron as part of the track , hence me wondering if he or others were using the same version of Dijon Prenois as there are 2 versions but I dont know what the differences are trackwise .

I have looked again at the replay and note that David Rainier is one who stayed mostly on track , being his home circuit I think he might have known what is acceptable driving or not here .

Just for the record , I'm not talking the odd lap here I'm talking consistent use of the outer track with all 4 wheels well outside the white line on several of the corners .

The question is , was it deleberate crossing the white line or were some of us using a different track layout ?

Would also like to know which other tracks this is allowed on ?




 

Hmm, but you were racing with us in that race ;)


I think that explains everything ;)

Is it technically possible to connect and to race with another track ?  :o
maybe we can see that with GPLRA ????

By the way, I was far from the 1mn22sec per lap. I think my best should be 1mn25sec ...but it was enough for the 2nd place  :D


The race was very difficult, as I don't know very well this track (I think I only made a full race in mod65 with GPLracer in the past), I made a poor start and lost 2 or 3 positions but was quickly 3rd very far behind Hendy and Phil.
Then, Phil probably did some mistakes and I was able to overtake him when he spun. Then I just try to do no mistakes and I could be happy with this final 2nd position.


Now here are the standings (before moderation)
1 Rainier 311 - 39 = 272
2 Hendy 279 - 23 = 256
3 Phil 296 - 56 = 240
so everything can happen!

I just see there are 2 versions for Tripoli, next race : 1935 and 1937 !

which one should be used ?

Errmmm      No

David, you are right about that being a tough race!  I tried my best to stay ahead of you but one small mistake (when I was looking in my mirrors at the back marker I had just passed instead of concentrating on what I was doing) was all that you needed to get through.  After that I put you under as much pressure as I could but you didn't crack.  There was no way to get past without you making a mistake.

The race started well, I got a great start and lead into the first corner.  I held the lead for a couple of laps but it was only a matter of time before Cookie blasted his way past in the Lotus.  Fortunately for me he went wide at Parabolique and I got the place back.  After that I desperately tried to fend off Hendy but he was just too quick and I nearly lost it altogether trying to drive side-by-side through several corners.  Good clean racing but the result was inevitable.

Having looked at our lap times compared to the works drivers, I'm quite surprised how quick we were.  The intense competition is bringing out the best in us!

The last two rounds are going to be a hard fight.  I have more points to drop so I have an outside chance of the title but as you say there is everything to play for.

Good luck to Hendy and David in the next round.  I think we'll all be asked to join the works next season at this rate!

A fantastic track!
Unfortunately I hadn't a reliable setup so I couldn't really compete for the podium...
I quit after my Repco engine suddenly exploded :cursing:
Wd for the podium and everyone raced
Black Night Racing rules!! :jumpjoy:

Hi there,

Qualifying was quite acceptable for me and the Start was also OK. The Race itself was OK, too. So I am happy with a Top-6 finish.
Congratulations to the Podium and all Finishers!

So long
Andreas

In general terms Bernie, you can put the car where you want. There are three things to bear in mind though.

1) The racetrack is explicitly defined by the white lines (or other well defined change of surface in the case of GPL, e.g. tarmac/grass, tarmac/gravel etc.). We'll call it the "white line". If the boundary is not clear then there is latitude but in 99.9% of cases the boundaries of the racetrack are very clear.
2) If, by cutting a corner, you gain an advantage and you repeatedly do it you can be penalised. The "white line" is used to decide if the corner is cut. This dealt with in the rules under Railriding and Corner Cutting here (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/railriding). This has resulted in penalties in the past e.g. here (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=9077#event2396).
3) If you do race outside the white lines (all four wheels) you are (voluntarily) in a rejoin situation and woe betide you if you crash into somebody else. This was the subject of some controversy last season and is explicitly dealt with here (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/bad_rejoin). The relevant portion being the opening paragraph: "Any car that has four wheels off the track, intentionally or unintentionally must rejoin and obviously do so safely. Cars are also in a rejoin situation whenever they have stopped racing for whatever reason - a spin, stopping to avoid other cars etc."

I had the impression that the track is sopposed to be driven that way...even in the video bernie posted, Arnoux is often driving outside of the white lines, most noticeable at the last turn into the straight. I have seen that in alot of the modern tracks, exit line also often goes way outside of the white lines, entrance line sometimes too, I watched alot of incar driving from iracing and that seems to be the usial line, taking all the space form the track that you possibly can whitout going off the tarmac. Not sure how regulations in real world go about this... Cutting the corners on other hand is not very feasable because of the rumble strip or however its called, and almost all tracks have such a thing to prevent corner cutting.

Sky , afaics in the vid Arnoux goes completely outside the white lines only in one place , the final RH turn onto the straight , for the rest of the lap he has two wheels on the track proper , even though he cuts the corners . He is doing demo laps and not racing , using todays ruling he would be taking a penalty , but this is GPL not real life , if we have rules , we should stick to them , we all can make a mistake and run wide at some time during a lap , that is not what I am talking about here .

The question is , "is it legal to drive completely outside (all four wheels outside) the white lines on "every lap "  not just on one corner but several during each lap .

The answer appears to be No , it is not allowed .

Is it possible to run a different track version than that used by the server ?  I dont see why not if they are similar (only different in some small way ) The correct track was version 2 is it possible Hendy or others was running V1 ? only they would know .

I'm not an expert but afaik,  there is nothing to stop you or me or anyone else who cares to , using a dis-assembler to access the programme code , changing the code to adjust the track layout slightly, re assembling and racing on the altered track .

N.B.  I AM NOT SUGGESTING ANYONE HERE HAS DONE THIS  , merely stating it as an example of what can be done ?

So if driving outside of white lines is actually illegal, than what are we gonna do with 14 years of racing in Mexico? Because everybody I was racing with on this track, drives like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZoH7mi075U).

Precisely why I was asking for the rules to be clarified 

Well, this seems to be the legit way to drive mexico... gplrank verified world records follow the same line. Might be easier to assume that anything that is tarmac is not considered offtrack?

I seriously thought that going outside of the white lines was the fastest and safest way to drive dijon too, and i think everybody in works used similiar line. And Im still not convinced that it is illegal.

Lol, that video of Mexico is a good example, good post. Actually in that lap there is corner cutting, technically speaking, as the car is slicing beyond the white lines through the esses, it would be good to clarify this is allowed before the final race we have there in a few weeks. just to avoid further discussions. It would fall in the category of track-specific ruling.

I think Paul's post was very clear guys. You are not allowed to cut corners by crossing the lines. But you are allowed to go beyond the white lines on entry and on exit of the corners. This is considered 'leaving the track voluntarily', and you are just required attention when 'rejoining', as it were. Adelaide is another good example. In the race I had there during my Novice season, crossing the lines with four wheels wasnt allowed only in the first chicane (corner cutting, but a nightmare ruling to actually abide to..), but was permitted on every other part of the track (exit of corners mostly...). For the records, I think in the video of Arnoux and Villeneuve, the Renault is well beyond the kerb at T3 at some point, while overtaking or defending I cant remember, no one complained back then i think  ;D.

I am aware that nowdays the rules in F1 are a bit more strict (although only since a couple of years, really). I suspect one of the main problems we have is that if we introduce a rule about this, then someone has to sit there checking the entire race of everyone else, which is something I dont see even Bernie volunteering for.. ;D ;D

Incidentally, it is not that crossing the lines at Dijon makes you all of a sudden a second quicker, especially with the 67s low grip; for what I could tell,  you are probably talking 2 tenths or 3 at the most.

I've raced Dijon a couple of times in leagues in the past, including here and in others. There was never an issue about cutting, it was about using as much tarmac as possible because everyone can do it if they want. There is no actual advantage gained by cutting INTO corners, beyond the curb, so I don't see what's the big fuss about. The entry and exit of corners is much safer if you use the whole width, instead of trying to stay within white lines which you can barely see or not see at all until you're close to the entry/exit before/after corners.

Big fuss ?

Whose making a fuss , I was just curious for the simple reason I thought it was against the rules to leave the track to gain an advantage .

If it makes no difference as you say then why do it at all , surely that makes you the fuss maker not little old me  ;D

I will be takng the Lotus to mexico so its nice to know I can drive the track with impunty .

As youwell know in GPL you only need to stray off the black stuff by 1/10000 inch in Pro mode and its a black flag , fortunately we have the feature turned off for on line racing but wasn't always so and IMO it made for better racing .

As for the track version I was using V2 (which I assume everyone was using).  The white lines are kind of arbitrary and vary from track to track. This track just happens to have large shoulders outside the lines. I always treated 'on track' as being on the tarmac, and off track as being on the dirt/grass/gravel. 4 wheels off the tarmac == off track.

My PB up until the race was 123.20 so I was surprised to see such a fast laptime. But I had made some asymmetric tunings to the Lotus and I had the handling down very well, tyres stayed perfect temp, etc. Only went off-track once (in a bad way ;)

Mod published.

Thanks Rainier :)

Yes thanks for your report David.  Your efforts are most appreciated.

Thanks for your work, David!