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UKGPL => UKGPL Races => Topic started by: EvilClive on November 20, 2012, 07:39:22 PM +0000



Title: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: EvilClive on November 20, 2012, 07:39:22 PM +0000
We travel across Europe to Austria and another well known circuit. This could be a track for the BIG cars to finally establish their superiority....or maybe not.

Zeltweg 71 with its sweeping curves and 2 long straights opens up the chance to use pure horsepower but there are some tricky corners that might allow the more agile cars to close the gap. pitstop times are based upon the best lap times from our last race here and the current fastest laps on the GPLrank database.

Teams can choose to run any cars they like, but in any race each all team members must drive different cars, so only one driver can drive the car that does not need to stop.

Pit stop times are listed below with a choice of a single long stop or two shorter stops... the choice is yours.

THIS RACE WILL HAVE A ROLLING START AND CARS ARE EXPECTED TO MAINTAIN THEIR GRID POSITIONS FOR THE FIRST LAP. THE POLE CAR WILL LEAD THE PACK AROUND AT A STEADY SPEED AND RACING WILL START AS CARS ENTER THE START FINISH STRAIGHT AT THE END OF LAP 1


"Please ensure you are aware of the new in-series penalties for this season. Details are here (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=10879.0). Drivers incurring a penalty will receive a PM informing them of this."


Race listiGOR
ServerT7_2
IP address******
Date25-11-2012
Race timeRace starts at 09:30 UK time
Qualifying timeBetween 30 and 60 minutes, starting no later than 21:00 UK time
TrackZeltweg 71
ModGT
Damage modelINT (Each driver is allowed a single Shift-R)
Race length30 laps
ReplayAvailable here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Replays/Archive/Season23/GTs/)

REVISED PIT STOP TIMES SHOWN BELOW

Rouen - GT
Single Stop Time
 
Double Stop Time
 
Post Race Time

Penalty
Ford GT40 Mk1
No Stop
 
N/A
 
0
Porsche 910
Stop and Go
 
N/A
 
21
Mirage M1
20
 
N/A
 
34
Ford GT40 Mk4
7
 
N/A
 
21
Ford GT40 Mk2B
35
 
10
 
50
Ferrari 330/P4
70
 
28
 
84
Lola T70 Mk3
57
 
21
 
71
Chaparral Mk2D
86
 
36
 
100
Chaparral Mk2F
104
 
46
 
118


 First Pit Window is: 22 (to go on your pit board) to 10 (to go on your pit board)
 Second Pit Window is: 17 (to go on your pit board) to 8 (to go on your pit board)





Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: fpolicardi on November 21, 2012, 08:18:35 PM +0000
T7 server is seto to 30 laps Long race and listening on Igor with OpenGL_V2 on Console session.

I won't race cause I'm working in the weekend till late in the evening.  :(
Ciao


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: EvilClive on November 21, 2012, 08:38:07 PM +0000
Thanks Fulvio.  ;D

Sorry to hear that we will not see your Ferrari at Zeltweg  :-\


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: BadBlood on November 21, 2012, 09:38:54 PM +0000
T7 server is seto to 30 laps Long race and listening on Igor with OpenGL_V2 on Console session.

I won't race cause I'm working in the weekend till late in the evening.  :(
Ciao

You need to sort out that work/life balance Fulvio... work should NEVER come first ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: FullMetalGasket on November 25, 2012, 10:01:46 AM +0000
My internet connection is still hugely unreliable. Hopefully I can make this but don't hold your breath :(
House move is still looking good for late December though so I'll hopefully be setup and reliable by Jan  ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: liveclive on November 25, 2012, 06:08:33 PM +0000
Hope you get sorted soon Tim, I miss that regular view of your exhaust pipes  ::)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: BadBlood on November 26, 2012, 12:14:22 AM +0000
This was actually a lot of fun. Got a reasonable start and soon caught up with Phil. His need to brake earlier than me made me cautious and I took a wide line at the exit of Bosch to under cut him but touched the grass. That put me last. I was soon hassling Jason but just couldn't quite get by I then ruined Nigel's race by losing it at T1. He was off although I don't think there was contact. Stefano and Jason had a coming together which promoted me and from then on it was a case of keeping my nose clean. With 6 laps to go Nigel had got past Jason and was closing me down. I tried to push and was relieved to see a Smith missile heading off into the daisies in my mirror. But what was this... there he was again. Damn! I tried to inject some pace and overdid it - he was through and 400 yards ahead. Span again pushing and nearly retired but you never know. 3 laps to go and suddenly I am catching Nigel - has he had an incident - he's coasting... he'd run out of gas, literally. Unlucky for him, lucky for me. Last lap and I had to hold it together. I only just got to the line in front of Hristo and Evil was breathing down my neck. I didn't want to crash with my teamie on the last lap and I let him through. Given the way his car was wobbling through Bosch, I couldn't understand how he was quicker!

Race went quickly and it all comes down to the last race. Fujikawa take the role of Alonso - GT International are Red Bull! Take your pick.

We need a 1-2 boys!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: blito on November 26, 2012, 12:03:01 PM +0000
In my head, I had planned a slow and steady non-stop run to the flag in the Ford MK1, passing people as they took their handicap stops. In reality I was slow but no where near steady enough! The Ford was wandering all over the track, understeering on turn in and oversteering on exit! It was hard work and I really struggled to keep going. There was one particular moment which nearly ended my race - I was lining up a pass on Stefano but a momentary freeze sent me charging across the kerbs! I was lucky not to be badly damaged but it really spoiled Stefanos afternoon. Sorry m8.
The final few laps were the worst - I was exhausted from the effort of trying to keep the shopping trolley of a Mk1 on the track and it all started to go pear shaped.. spins galore over those final few laps :(
On the plus side, this is the first time I've still been running at the end of a UKGPL at Zeltweg! 


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: BadBlood on November 26, 2012, 02:00:19 PM +0000
Well done Jase - it did look a handful...


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: Al Heller on November 26, 2012, 02:58:26 PM +0000
Hats off to the GT40 runners for managing to tame those big beasts round Zeltweg. Joined the server to find only me & Clive had chosen the fast chassis & soon discovered why... I knew the Ferrari had a fat pitstop to deal with, however rather worryingly those slower cars were going much quicker & much more consistently in other peoples hands than I'd managed when I'd tested them :P. Still, that's part of the appeal of this series as you never really quite know how it will work out, especially when you factor in unpredictable race incidents.

Anyway I knew I'd have to get a really solid lead if I had any chance of threatening the podium but despite an error-free run on a nice clear track, by mid-distance I'd only managed to find about 15-18 seconds on the following group headed by Doni & Hristo. I wasn't going to pit until late on, but I started to hit traffic ahead so dived in to the pits & 70 seconds later I emerged to find I was in 5th about 45 seconds behind Sergio's Porsche :-\ After a few laps of hard chasing it became clear that I wasn't catching Sergio anywhere near fast enough & with 4 laps to go the thrashing I'd given my engine finally caused it to go pop. It didn't make much difference as I was still 30 seconds or so behind Sergio before the engine blowup & with a big gap back to Phil was able to serve my SnG without losing a place. Well done to Hristo, Cookie & Doni - congrats also to Hristo on the GT Drivers championship.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: Cookie on November 26, 2012, 04:29:48 PM +0000
Yes!
These big, fat, heavy beasts MK4s had two big advantages: lots of power and a 7 sec stop...
To make them run in a handsome way was a little challenge and Doni and I seem to have got it right.
It was a fantastic battle over many laps!
I seem to have had a little advantage in some corners under braking and when we made our shootout some warp was involved.
My replay shows no contact, sorry Doni!
But luckily we could both move on...

For me there was no choice as the really good cars had no chance to make up the stop times against a Porsche.
Only H knows how to make this MK1 a winner  ::) Maybe one day we can see this setup?


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: FullMetalGasket on November 26, 2012, 04:53:47 PM +0000
Guess what?
I couldn't make it  ::)


Cookie - I've driven some of H's setups when I was a Waza - they're slower for me as he sets them up (or used to at least) for left foot braking, I've never managed that in anything other than a go kart  ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 26, 2012, 07:45:32 PM +0000
Only H knows how to make this MK1 a winner  ::) Maybe one day we can see this setup?


I've never kept my setups hidden, so I don't mind sharing it. It's just that the forum doesn't allow attachments, and I lost the domain name for the waza blog. I've uploaded my Zeltweg setup here (I hope I uploaded the MK1 setup, not sure about the extensions):

http://www.mediafire.com/?x6mtu5car534h0t

The approach I tried in the setup was partially the same one I use with the 67s BRM, and it worked out quite well, surprisingly, particularly the differential settings. Made it easy to turn in and accelerate out smoothly, predictably. Yeah though, as Tim says, it probably won't work well for RFB, though I actually use 55-57 BB for this car, so perhaps a few tweaks here and there can adapt it for such technique.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: liveclive on November 26, 2012, 08:00:20 PM +0000
I have always used left foot braking, but that has never helped me drive Hristo's setups at anything like his pace  :-\.

I think Al hit the right spot with his comments about the stops. I had also thought that a faster car might be better around Zeltweg and was surprised at the pace of the Porsches and Mk1 Fords.  All those stop times were calculated from the best lap times that I could find and I suspect that until now no-one had bothered much with the Mk1's and Mk4's so their best lap times were rather slower than they should have been. That won't be the case next time we run at Zeltweg in GT's. muhahaha!!!

Using the laptimes from last night we would have stops like this.....

Ford GT40 Mk1        0
Porsche 910            0
Mirage M1                7
Ford GT40 Mk4       15
Ford GT40 Mk2B     18
Ferrari 330/P4          26
Lola T70 Mk3           18
Chaparral Mk2D       40
Chaparral Mk2F        37

It was very plain as the race progressed, that some cars had stops that were too long but, everyone had a free choice of car ( except those who had a self imposed selection of car for the whole season) so any team was at liberty to choose those cars that offered the best result.





Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 26, 2012, 08:49:56 PM +0000
I have always used left foot braking, but that has never helped me drive Hristo's setups at anything like his pace  :-\.

I think Al hit the right spot with his comments about the stops. I had also thought that a faster car might be better around Zeltweg and was surprised at the pace of the Porsches and Mk1 Fords.  All those stop times were calculated from the best lap times that I could find and I suspect that until now no-one had bothered much with the Mk1's and Mk4's so their best lap times were rather slower than they should have been. That won't be the case next time we run at Zeltweg in GT's. muhahaha!!!

Using the laptimes from last night we would have stops like this.....

Ford GT40 Mk1        0
Porsche 910            0
Mirage M1                7
Ford GT40 Mk4       15
Ford GT40 Mk2B     18
Ferrari 330/P4          26
Lola T70 Mk3           18
Chaparral Mk2D       40
Chaparral Mk2F        37

It was very plain as the race progressed, that some cars had stops that were too long but, everyone had a free choice of car ( except those who had a self imposed selection of car for the whole season) so any team was at liberty to choose those cars that offered the best result.


I see nobody took the Chaparral in this race, so I'm pretty sure those 37 and 40 seconds stops are way too long for the two Chaps as well. The track may have fast sections, but those long corners make much more of a difference, and gearing is also very tricky. The Chaps are very likely to struggle in terms of gearing.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: Phil Thornton on November 26, 2012, 08:54:25 PM +0000
Well that was another entertaining race.  I drove the Mirage again and this time it had a fairly short stop but not short enough judging by Clive's post race pit stop analysis.  I got a good start but I couldn't hang onto Sergio's Porsche.  After my pit stop I dropped down the order but managed to pick up a few places before the final run-in to the flag.  I saw Al leave the pits in his Ferrari after his lengthy pit stop so that was one fast car I wasn't going to have an opportunity to fight with.  I was hoping someone in a fast car would be behind me after a long pit stop so I would have someone to race against for the final few laps.  Sure enough Evil popped up on my pit board so I pushed as hard as I could to try and stay ahead.  With 4 laps to go Clive was all over me.  Not sure how hard Clive was trying but I managed to keep ahead until with 1 lap to go I ran out of fuel at the last corner.  I did a shift-R and called into the pits to do my S&G but as I did so Hristo came past and lapped me but I didn't notice :(.  I did my S&G in the stalls which is after the finish line so technically I did a S&G after the race had finished.  One for the moderator to sort out ::).


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: clouds on November 26, 2012, 09:06:33 PM +0000

Porsche 910            0 -> 13
Mirage M1                7 -> 20
Ford GT40 Mk4       15 -> 28
Ford GT40 Mk2B     18 -> 31
Ferrari 330/P4          26 -> 39
Lola T70 Mk3           18 - > 31
Chaparral Mk2D       40 -> 53
Chaparral Mk2F        37 -> 50

These values have to be increased of around 13 secs that is the deceleration and acceleration time to and from the pit lane.

Bad stuttering for me all the race long and this caused my 2 outs of track. I was very close to H. during the beginning of the race probably due to his tow, and indeed I made some rubber band behind him but...the rubber band has been broken when I've gone to the daisies! :-p
Unfortunately I could not be able to catch the 2nd place gaining on the strugglers in front of me because I've been involved in their contact while I was trying to pass between them. Anyway Dony Yourth sporty gave me the place I've lost for his contact...retaking it the next lap.  :P :) at -6 to go. I've made the last 1/2 lap with only 1/2 litre of gas !!! :P ::)



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: liveclive on November 26, 2012, 09:38:11 PM +0000
Apologies!!! I fired off those figures from my laptop without really thinking about it.  :(

Sergio is correct, I had forgotten to dial in the slow down and speed up time.

I did try the Chapps before this race and was able to get 1:47 sec times which over a 30 lap race would give approx 50 secs advantage over the 1:49 lap times posted by the Mk1's and Mk4's. But, I struggled to get a setup that gave predictable handling so I opted for the Lola.

As far as my battle with Phil and his Mirage went I was surprised at how fast Phil was pushing his car. I caught him quite quickly but he made it very difficult for me to get past......but always fair. We had several corners side by side, where I was being so very careful not to make contact :scared:
Hard luck Phil on running out of fuel ( I was still carrying 10 galls, I could have let you have some if you had asked ;D ) that last lap dash to the flag might have been close.





Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: Cookie on November 26, 2012, 09:44:56 PM +0000
Now as the race is over we have to look for the next...

For Daytona we have a well filled list in GPLRank and luckily nearly all the official WRs are made by Steve Cloyd.
So this should show that the handicaping system works well.

I would love to use my Chappy  ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 26, 2012, 10:28:48 PM +0000
One major factor you have to consider with the pitstop times is, if you're in a slower car (straight-line speed-wise), you can't really go flat out even if you're quicker than another car, especially on a track with longer straights, because you'd be stuck behind it, and even if you somehow go alongside in corners or even ahead, you'll get passed back down the straight, and overall both of you are going to slow each other down, but IMO the slower car loses a lot more time because most time is gained/lost in the corners, and the slower car would have its corners pace/line compromised.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: clouds on November 26, 2012, 11:29:30 PM +0000
Yes...it is true but...there is also that the slower car can't go as fast as in a slipstream on straight and if it remains in tow it could regain what it looses in corners due to a slower car in front. So the difference on lap could be balanced. A Porsche can go quietly faster in a slipstream.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: EvilClive on November 27, 2012, 12:47:39 PM +0000
heheheheh!    Do I detect a note of tactical thinking amongst the drivers for the Daytona race?  ::) 

Slow car with slipstreaming advantage on the striaghts and better handling around the infield...or.... a big muscle car to blitz that long straight and gain loads of time.

Interestingly, the lap times between all of the cars at Daytona is not that huge.....this could be very entertaining  ;)

I will try and post the stop times as early as possible so that you can all make your chassis selection for the race.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: Hristo Itchov on November 27, 2012, 03:55:15 PM +0000
Well, judging from a F1 67s race I had at Daytona, better straight line speed definitely gives some advantage on overall lap time. The flat out section is just way too long, plus you have mostly slow corners and hard acceleration, where strong engine helps more again.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: Doni Yourth on November 30, 2012, 04:06:38 AM +0000
If every sim race could be as much fun and as thrilling as this round in Austria, I’d wont for nought.  A great, race-long duel with Axel, each of us in the mighty Ford Mk 4's, came right down to the wire.  And to add some spice, Sergio contending for a podium slot in the tiny Porsche.

It’s getting a little monotonous to say but once again, we must tip our hats to Hristo who drove splendidly in the GT40 to claim yet another victory.  Such pace in this car is admirable, to say the least.  He re-writes the record books every time he straps himself behind the wheel.

I must confess to be more than a little shocked to have claimed P2 on the start grid behind Al’s Ferrari.  In pre-race trials, I’d managed a good lap at a 1:49.56 timing but in practice and Q, shaved that down to a 1:48.25 lap.  A 1-1/4 second reduction in a PB is nothing to be sneezed at.

Al lead a good pace lap and off the Rindt Kurve, accelerated away cleanly.  I gave chase with Axel in hot pursuit of me.  As Al staged a breakaway, it was all I could do to keep Axel at bay.  For many a lap, we circulated in a virtual nose-to-tail train never more than two seconds apart.  Around Lap8, I began to catch site of another car behind Axel.  I thought that this was most likely Clive in the Lola.  Comes Lap10 and imagine my shock.  It’s Hristo in the puny GT40 and he’s taken over P4.  Good Lord!

By Lap12, Hristo had disposed of Axel to close right up on my tail and at this point, I made my only real mistake over the distance by paying rather too much thought to determing the best place to let him pass then watch where I was going.  I went a bit wide in Rindt and kissed the barrier.  This was all Hristo needed to pass and pull away.  At the end of Lap13, Axel dropped into the pits for his service.  On Lap15, Al did likewise to surrender the lead and promote Hristo to P1 and me to P2.

Lap16 and a bit of a scare for Hristo as just up ahead of me, he spun late in the Doctor but recovered quickly to retain P2.  At the end of the lap, I, too, dropped in to the pits to serve my stop.  Blasting out of the pits, I was only just ahead of Axel.  The battle was joined once again.  Not realized by me at this time was the fact that Sergio had roared up the field and was now running P4 just a handful of seconds behind Axel.

Lap23 and high drama.  Going into the Doctor, I guess that Axel thought the door was open wide enough for a stab up the inside and went for it.  My typically wider approach gave him hope for a pass but that gap quickly shrank.  WAMO!  We’re both off with me getting rather the worst of it  Struggling to get straightened round, Sergio skipped through to take over P3 just behind t-mate, Axel.  Dear me...  A job of work to do now.

Lap24 and I only just managed to squeak ahead of Sergio on the run into the Doctor but the nimble, little Porsche rim-rode on the outside and repassed for P3 as we swung into the corner.  I was low and couldn’t keep the big Ford pinched down enough to avoid the 910 as it cut across my bow.  A nudge and a spin for Sergio.  Sorry, Sergio.  The only decent thing to do in a matter such as this is to check up and wait for an adversary to recover.  Sergio regained P3 and motored away with me giving hot chase.  It took a couple of laps of hard driving but I did manage to repass the little Porsche cleanly on Lap26 on the run over to the Doctor.  Leading through, Sergio ducked low and came powering up on my right as we cleared the crest and we traded paint on the exit.  Luckily, we both hung on to control and roared off down towards Bosch.  Far out stuff! :)  Only a small slip from Sergio just downstream of Bosch put him too far back to stage a direct challenge for the duration.

I went gunning for Axel but simply ran out of time to mount a threat.  P3 it was and I’m happy to score it.

A great round!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) GT Team Challenge - Zeltweg - Nov 25
Post by: EvilClive on December 29, 2012, 03:42:41 PM +0000
moderation done at last, sorry for the wait guys  :-\