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UKGPL => UKGPL Races => Topic started by: Ross Neilson on December 01, 2012, 09:12:48 AM +0000



Title: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: Ross Neilson on December 01, 2012, 09:12:48 AM +0000
David Rainier's incredible consistency continued in Tripoli as he followed title rival Phil Thornton home to clinch the Privateers Trophy. Bravo David! Hendy Nichols still has a chance to overhaul Phil for second place, and with the track well known to everyone it should be a good last race of the season.

Race listiGOR
ServerUKGPL_T7_2
IP address62.149.202.168
Date02-12-2012
Race timeRace starts at 21:30 UK time
Qualifying timeBetween 30 and 60 minutes, starting no later than 21:00 UK time
TrackMexico City (mexico)
Mod67
Damage modelINT
Race length28 laps
ReplayAvailable here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/replays/Archive/Season23/Grads_Privs/S23_Grads_Privs_R10_2012_12_02_MexicoCity.rar)

Reserve drivers please note; you must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes, to allow full timers to join.

The red zone will be fully moderated for lap 1 only. For this event the red zone will be from the start line to the exit of the hairpin. Other moderation will be on reported incidents only.

The chassis token system is explained on the Privateers (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=361&theme=6) standings page. Please ensure you choose a chassis that is within your budget, which can be seen by hovering the mouse over your points total in the standings.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: fpolicardi on December 02, 2012, 11:43:23 AM +0000
T7 server is set to 28 laps Long race.
Ciao


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: Phil Thornton on December 02, 2012, 11:08:38 PM +0000
Tried hard in qually but I couldn't do better than 4th.  In the race I got a good start and just managed to avoid Cookie's Ferrari that bounced off the wall after he got a bit too much wheelspin off the line.  I had just enough speed to nip past David Rainier and take second place into turn 1.  A couple of laps later I managed to get past Hendy and take the lead and I settled down to try and pull a gap.  I was -4 when I made a stupid error (just one of many this season) and spun into T1.  This let David through into the lead.  I tried to stay on his tail but I seemed to have overheated my rear tyres and I spun in the twisty bit and David was gone.  I then had Cookie on my gearbox for a couple of laps until the power of the Lotus allowed me to pull away a bit.  With about 22 laps to go I was +9 and so I tried to drive carefully to preserve the tyres and hope that David made a mistake.  As the laps went by the gap stayed pretty static, with about 10 laps to go it was still +8.  As we started to encounter back markers the gap dropped to +5 and with two laps to go I pushed as hard as I could to try and put David under pressure.   At T2 there were three cars littering the track and as I drove past I was sure I caught a glimpse of a Lotus.  So it was either Hendy who I hadn't seen for a while or David.  With one lap to go my pit board showed me as P1, so it must have been David at T2 having got tangled up with some back markers.  Unlucky David.  A lucky win for me especially having made a couple of unforced errors.  Pleased to get the fastest lap which was a PB and under the pole time.

This has been one of the best seasons I have ever had in UKGPL.  I've driven better than I have ever done before and I'm very happy to be the runner-up after such an epic season.  Grats to David on the championship and to Hendy for a well deserved third place.



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: BadBlood on December 02, 2012, 11:34:14 PM +0000
Really enjoyed this race. I am pretty awful in the 67's but I am improving.

Had an awesome first lap and passed seven cars... then I over rotated into the polos second time round and in avoiding the armco found myself last. Settled down to some steady laps and found myself chasing Billy and Blito hard. Had a go at Billy at the hairpin and thought I had got through but no and he had the inside line into the esses.... next time round I wasn't quite along side but took a tight line. Some wierd collision and I found myself facing the wrong way :( Last again but this time I was chasing Phillipe. Gave it a few laps until I overcooked it at T1 again. Then Phillipe disappeared so I was pretty lonely. Lapped steadily with a couple of spins to keep me interested ;) and even managed to keep Cookie in view for three laps until another spin. Some of the spins were in wierd places as well which was frustrating.

Then t the end it all got lively, Fabio caught me and I let him past with a bit of rail riding at T1... heart in mouth, then I was being passed by the battle royale for 5th. Amazingly David in 1st was approachins as well and James had obviously had a problem because I could see him. A crafty 'use the leader' ploy evolved in my mind and all was going well until I fund a stricken red beast in my path :( Avoided it but spun and that was that. Well nearly.

Spun at another wierd place and got stuck. Reset and found that the pit entrance was narrower than I realised. Pitted on the last lap and took the flag in the pit lane.

Although I was last, I had a target for most of the race and I really enjoyed it. Just goes to show that you don't need to win to enjoy the game. Which is lucky really, or I 'd have given this up by now  :D

Well done to Phil, Hendy and David.

Many thanks to David for moderating.

Looking forward to Season 24 already.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: il_lupo_mannaro on December 03, 2012, 06:11:17 AM +0000
Finally a good race for myself!!
Grats to team mate Dave for winning the champ and grats to all team mates to winning the team champ too: Black Night rules!! :punk:
Looking forward to next season.
See you all on track.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: Michael Turner on December 03, 2012, 09:20:29 AM +0000
An enjoyable race made even more satisfying as I'd saved up a few tokens and was able to drive one of the faster cars which allowed me some unaccustomed overtaking down the straights. Additionally I was driving the rubber coated version of the Ferrari which survived several fairly hefty contacts with other vehicles and barriers. Congratulations to the Champion and roll on Season 24. It's diificult to believe that this game is now a teenager :thumbup2:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: Cookie on December 03, 2012, 10:36:18 AM +0000
Grats to the Champ David :thumbup2:

Grats to the race winner Phil  :thumbup2:

This was my first season in 67s and I just wanted to know where I am with these beasts...
I have only little experience how the different cars behave and where are the advantages to the others.
Yes, the Ferrari was a good choice for this track, as it has a good engine with some more grunt in the lower revs than the eagle.
I had tried some fast laps with the Eagle in the training sessions but it was allways on the edge...
Finaly I tried the Fez and found it was much better driveable, especially with the Roland Ehnstrom setup I took in the quali.

For the S24 I will take it more serious and hope to support the Antipastis in a better way ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: maddog on December 03, 2012, 11:22:33 AM +0000
I decided to take the slow Cooper, and was surprised to take 5th near the end of practice.  It was the safest choice for the race, but didn't prevent my fickle connection dumping me, annoyingly, in the closing seconds.>:( This has become all to familiar this Season, and I'll be trading in my roof for a new one, for Christmas, and hoping to do more serious battle, in the new year.

From where I sit, this has become a great championship.  It takes great skill to get these '67's around a Grand Prix track competitively.  This makes us all masters of our sport, and legends amongst our peers.  So it's congrats to our winners, and to all who raced hard, and raced well. ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: Billy Nobrakes on December 03, 2012, 11:32:14 AM +0000
Mexico has never been a great track for me. Survived with one nasty spin & blowing an engine on the second to last lap – being the last race of season though it best to take a SnG & cross the finish line.
It’s been one of the best 67 seasons that I have participated in – partly because the grids have been nearly full.
Congratulations to Rainier for taking the championship, pushed all the way by Phil & had they been a bit more consistent Hendy & Cookie were / would have been up there.
Also, well done to the Black Night Racing Team, Rainier, Dave Curtis & Fabio. Having four drivers regularly competing probably gave us a bit of an advantage.
Whilst new mods keep arriving there is something very special about these original  67 monsters & the challenge of keeping all that power on track (most of the time).


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: blito on December 03, 2012, 05:36:42 PM +0000
I had a brilliant race last night and loved every minute of it.
Qually was a struggle as I had done no practice and arrived with my BRM still wearing its Tripoli setup which really didn't work to well. I spent all of practice altering a great many things on the car and just about sorted it out but failed to set a proper time so I started dead last but we all know what happens at Mexico on lap one don't we :)
So after picking my way through the inevitable debris I settled down into a rhythm and plodded my way through the race, never really fighting anyone and never really worrying myself. Michael Turner made things interesting for the latter stages of the race by making mistakes and allowing me to slowly pull the gap in but to be fair the Beast of Bourne was never going to trouble his Prancing Horse and I was more than happy to finish 9th - 8 places better than I qualified with a best lap almost 3 seconds than my grid time!
I will echo the sentiments on others here and hail this 67 season as a great success! We have had good grids and great racing and some bloody good fun out there!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: Rainier on December 03, 2012, 07:56:00 PM +0000
I should be happy winning the Privateers championship but yesterday evening (and still now) I was very disappointed to loose this race in such a way.
I was managing the gap with Phil who was pushing very hard at the end of the race but I was confident with 5 seconds at 2 laps of the end. as I was regurlarly running between 1'49 and 1'50 an I knew Phil could not do 1'47''50 at this stage (with his too hot tyres).
 
But as Phil said, I was rejoining a group of 4 back markers when one of them, a Ferrari driven by ...one of my team mates, spun just in front of me at the end of the Peraltida turn and I had to hardly brake.
Hardly braking in a turn like this one could only give this result : I spun and saw Phil going his way.
I really wanted to win here, because in that way Phil, Hendy and me would have 3 wins ...instead of that I am winning the championship with less victories than these 2 excellent drivers.   

I have to say the back markers were not all very fair, I am not speaking of my team mate in the Ferrari, but during the qually I was blocked 4 or 5 times and could never approach the best time of 1'48''30 I did the day before with the same setup.
During the race, it was better even if I still do not understand Bernie's behaviour during the last lap when I was doing my best to rejoin Phil : from the hairpin till the last turn before finish line, he blocked me. I think he was fighting with another driver but in the same situation, I would have let the leaders pass.

For this I will report an incident and I will not participate at this race moderation.           


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: bernie on December 03, 2012, 11:04:45 PM +0000
Sorry you did not enjoy the race David .

As for the last lap , yes I was racing hard , very hard , and enjoying every minute of it .

No I did not block you , in fact I gave you the racingline into the hairpin and was suprised to come out of there ahead , through the esses it was rather difficult to cede without the risk of a spin , as you yourself found through the doughnuts on the previous lap ? you were some 7 or 8 seconds behind Phil so that would have been one hell of a last lap .

For the race I had a great time but then I and others on here dont need to be race winners every time out to enjoy our racing and the good company

It isnt always easy being a back marker but I guess you wouldnt know much about that , however should I ever find myself in the unlikely position of lapping you , I look forward to you moving over  :)

Congrats to the podium and all other GPL racers and thanks for a great season to all who organised  :)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: BadBlood on December 04, 2012, 01:39:48 PM +0000
Once you are in the esses it is extraordinarily hard to let anyone go without totally compromising yourself. Frustrating for a leader but that is the luck of the draw...


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: Rainier on December 04, 2012, 08:36:43 PM +0000
Sorry you did not enjoy the race David .

I enjoyed very much this race ...except the 2 last laps  :)


No I did not block you , in fact I gave you the racingline into the hairpin and was suprised to come out of there ahead , through the esses it was rather difficult to cede without the risk of a spin , as you yourself found through the doughnuts on the previous lap ?

On the hairpin, you went to the apex ...that was not what I was thinking you'll do. And I have to be very cautious as it is not easy to be both on the same line at this turn.

you were some 7 or 8 seconds behind Phil so that would have been one hell of a last lap . 
Not exactly. I finished the race  5,6 seconds behind Phil and I think I lost 1,5 sec - 2 seconds during the last lap.
I could have put some pressure on Phil ...like he did with me during 25 laps !
 
By the way, at this moment not you and not me would have been able to know exactly if the gap between  Phil and me was 2 or 7 or 45 seconds ! 


For the race I had a great time but then I and others on here dont need to be race winners every time out to enjoy our racing and the good company 
It's exactly the same for me ...hopefully, because I  won less victories than Phil and Hendy !  :)
and I could say the same with you : I don't need to be 7th instead of 8th to enjoy racing.
It seems natural for you to push hard for a 7th place ...but it is not natural for me to do the same for the win !!!!!  :o


It isnt always easy being a back marker but I guess you wouldnt know much about that , however should I ever find myself in the unlikely position of lapping you , I look forward to you moving over  :)

 
I am very often a back marker in the other mods (67 is the one where I have the best results) and you just have to look the replays to see my attitude.
But not sure, I will do the same with you when it will happen :)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: bernie on December 04, 2012, 11:05:35 PM +0000
OK David,  all noted , thank's for the lecture

I promise to be a good boy in future and move over to the side while everyone passes  :)



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: BadBlood on December 06, 2012, 12:01:27 AM +0000
Bordering on 'not quite as friendly as it should be' boys.

Be good  ;D

And as my old Mum used to say, "If you can't be good, be CAREFUL!"


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: Michael Turner on December 06, 2012, 09:59:36 AM +0000
As a backmarker of vast experience please allow me my two pennorth. I have never understood why some drivers feel it necessary to overtake a backmarker as soon as they are on his tail regardless of the circumstances. Attempting a pass while negotiating a hairpin or chicane is the height of folly as neither driver is likely to be in complete control of the vehicle and needs to concentrate fully on negotiating the obstacle. My own approach is to drive my normal race and then as soon as I emerge onto the following straight to lift and allow an easy and incident free pass. If the overtaking driver cannot exercise patience until a safe pass can be achieved then I hold them fully responsible for any consequences and drive on with a clear conscience.

A Merry Christmas to one and all.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: blito on December 06, 2012, 11:09:49 AM +0000
I am keeping quiet on this until the Mod report is published as I am doing this one.... that is if anyone submits anything!



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: blito on December 07, 2012, 04:57:42 PM +0000
Report published.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: il_lupo_mannaro on December 07, 2012, 07:28:23 PM +0000
thx Jason!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: Rainier on December 07, 2012, 07:47:52 PM +0000
As a backmarker of vast experience please allow me my two pennorth. I have never understood why some drivers feel it necessary to overtake a backmarker as soon as they are on his tail regardless of the circumstances. Attempting a pass while negotiating a hairpin or chicane is the height of folly as neither driver is likely to be in complete control of the vehicle and needs to concentrate fully on negotiating the obstacle. My own approach is to drive my normal race and then as soon as I emerge onto the following straight to lift and allow an easy and incident free pass. If the overtaking driver cannot exercise patience until a safe pass can be achieved then I hold them fully responsible for any consequences and drive on with a clear conscience.

A Merry Christmas to one and all.

Michael,
if your comment is not at all related to the discussion I had with Bernie, I think it is a very interesting and right remark.

But if this is related to it, I think ...you absolutly do not understand what happened and you need to watch the replay.  ;D

because I never tried "to overtake Bernie as soon as I was on his tail" as you wrote, I was just thinking he would let me easily pass to avoid any risks of collision  and when I understood it would not be the case, I didn't try any riskly overtake.
I thought he was coming of the legendary country of "fair play" so that's why I was mistaken  :angel:

But let's  stop with this old story and let's concentrate to the next season  ;)


Jason
Thanks for the moderation.



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: blito on December 07, 2012, 09:02:09 PM +0000
This is how I would judge the incident after watching the replay.
Bernie was recovering from a spin at the chicane and had lost a number of positions and when he rejoined the track it was just in time to have David right behind him. In a split second decision Bernie covered the inside line in a defensive move. Perhaps he didn't know that David was a lap ahead as there was so little time to make that judgement. The following esses are not really a place where its easy to let a faster car through so no comment about behaviour there but the run to Peralta is another matter entirely and Bernies reluctance to ease up made David take a bit of lunge up the inside into the Peralta. In the end the pass was clean but it could have easily ended in disaster. I personally think that David showed a great deal of patience in his driving and dealt with the difficult situation very well, I also sympathise with Bernie as I know how difficult it is to make a good judgement on where you want the faster car to make its move, however the UKGPL rules as written in blood on the scroll of destiny ( aka the moderators guide ) would have favoured a mild penalty to Bernie for ignoring blue flags.
Lapping and being lapped is a skill all of its own and one we should perhaps take time to master from both sides.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: bernie on December 07, 2012, 11:08:46 PM +0000
Fine , except to add that Bernie wasn't sure which side David wanted to make a pass , as I said I gave him the racing line into the hairpin and was suprised he didnt or couldn't take advantage ( I was not as you say defending ) . The same thing at the peralta , check out my entry speed ,  what happened in between was up to david , I was doing my own race , the fact is that  the leader , Phil,  had passed me whilst I was recovering from my own mistake and was some way ahead of david , It was the last lap david didnt have a cats chance in hell of catching Phil let alone passing him before the flag .I didnt think I was spoiling anyones race its not as if they were close together , david lost the race when he spun , now he wants to blame me for it , I can understand his disapointment but i dont understand when he has already won  the championship why he is making so much of this ?

I repeat again , I did not block David , I never have blocked anyone (not wilfully)  and I never will .

Daves Lotus was considerably faster than my Brabham , he questions my sportsmanship , which I find to be pretty derogatory , sorry but I dont understand his attitude here
I had enough points to take the Lotus both here and at other tracks but chose to drive the brabham because I happen to think it was more sporting to give a chance to less experienced drivers , I even tried the BRM on occasion and personally get a lot more satisfaction from doing well in a lesser car than I would winning with the Lotus .


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: blito on December 08, 2012, 08:42:25 AM +0000
Fine , except to add that Bernie wasn't sure which side David wanted to make a pass , as I said I gave him the racing line into the hairpin and was suprised he didnt or couldn't take advantage ( I was not as you say defending ) .
Obviously I have watched the replay from both cockpits as well as every other camera angle and whilst I believe what you are saying its not completely apparent from the replays. If I had been the driver that was lapping you I think I would have been equally as cautious as David was although I may not have vented my fustration in public. Had I been the car that was being lapped I think I would have tried to have gotten out of the way somewhere sooner.
I have raced wheel to wheel with you, Bernie, on many occasions and I trust your on track judgement and your sportsmanship so please don't feel that anyone is having a dig at you personally. Please be assured that my comments in the previous post are based purely on the moderators guidelines ( which include example scenarios ) and are not my personal opinion of you (or David) as drivers.
(As an aside, I was once dragged before the moderators on a charge of ignoring the blue flags when being lapped. My (drunken) response apparently caused much merriment among the then moderator team.... especially as I was accusing one of the fastest and most accomplished drivers in GPL at being unable to lap slower cars safely! Ahem..... )  
Anyhow, this incident wasn't reported, it hasn't been moderated and I think we can safely move on to something more pleasant.


 I even tried the BRM on occasion and personally get a lot more satisfaction from doing well in a lesser car than I would winning with the Lotus .

Same here - I love taking the BRM for a run out. I know I cannot realistically challenge for victories so I run whatever car I fancy and settle down to hopefully have a good race against whoever is running at my pace. As you say, getting a decent result in a crap car is hugely satisfying.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: Rainier on December 08, 2012, 10:42:08 AM +0000
...although I may not have vented my fustration in public...

Yes, it was a hot reaction due to deception. I regret it, now.
What I find interesting to discuss is how we should react as a backmarkers when the leaders are going to overlap you.

Yesterday, I have been several times in this situation during F2 races at Jops Siffert.
there are some parts of this track where it is more difficult to overtake than in the Mexico Esses.
And as I didn't want to interfere on the fight between Hristo, Göran and Al (Heller), I almost stop my car several times to let them pass.
I could have been thinking "I am doing my own race and nobody has a "cats chance in hell" of catching Hristo" but I didn't !
And effectively, Hristo made an error and Al won !


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: Al Heller on December 08, 2012, 12:08:35 PM +0000
Yesterday, I have been several times in this situation during F2 races at Jops Siffert.
there are some parts of this track where it is more difficult to overtake than in the Mexico Esses.
And as I didn't want to interfere on the fight between Hristo, Göran and Al (Heller), I almost stop my car several times to let them pass.
I could have been thinking "I am doing my own race and nobody has a "cats chance in hell" of catching Hristo" but I didn't !
And effectively, Hristo made an error and Al won !

Your courtesy is very much appreciated Dave. Not just in yesterday's race but also throughout the season in 66's where you always make huge efforts to avoid blocking anyone in both qualifying & the races. Looking forward to repaying the favour sometime ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: blito on December 08, 2012, 01:07:56 PM +0000
I must say, David, you were perhaps a little too polite in moving over when I had to lap you  in the 66 event at Silverstone a few days ago. Although I wasn't expecting you to slow where you did you made it perfectly clear to me where you wanted me to make the pass and we pulled the move off nice and cleanly. Again, every lapping move requires co-operation between both drivers and whilst curtosy from the slower driver is to be expected it should not necesarily come at the expense of the lapped drivers own race and no front running driver should expect the slower guys to just pull over and "almost come to a stop". Sometimes it just takes a little patience to wait for the right moment.
Curtosy and Patience are the orders of the day.



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: Ronniepeterson on December 08, 2012, 11:19:36 PM +0000
Clearly there is no single correct answer on how to lap or be lapped. In my opinion anyone being lapped should under no circumstances race/contest the car lapping them into the next corner whatever line they are using. If politely giving way in a tight corner/set of corners is not possible then allow the car past on the next available straight and stay back out of the way until they have cleared the next corner. I try to adhere to this strategy myself whatever the stage of the race.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: Phil Thornton on December 09, 2012, 12:35:09 AM +0000
Lapping cars is all part of the game.  The rules (see here (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/etiquette)) are clear, both drivers have a responsibility to ensure the lapping is clean.  However the most important things are for the lapped driver to drive predictably and for the lapping driver to be patient.  The lapped driver can try to make it easier for the lapping driver but if in doubt drive the normal racing line (i.e, predicable) and do not try to defend the position.  It is up to the lapping driver to pick a safe place to pass and once an overtaking attempt is underway the lapped driver should not contest the pass.

Drivers must expect to loose some time lapping backmarkers and I accept that this can be frustrating.  I've been a lapping driver and a lapped driver many times and I haven't been involved in many incidents.  So I think the rules as they are are adequate. 

For the record I don't think Bernie affected the outcome of the race.  It would have needed a mistake from me to give David a chance of the win.  I have been known to make mistakes ::) but thankfully on this occasion I stayed cool 8).


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: bernie on December 09, 2012, 05:04:24 PM +0000
Totally agree with Phil and Ronnie ( cant beleive I said that ) the worst thing for any driver being lapped to do is slow down or change postition in a manner which is unpredictable .
In seasons past I raced 67's in the Pro league , I moved down to the Privs because I found I was way to slow and got more than a little tired of getting lapped by almost the entire pro field at most tracks , I was often being lapped twice and on the odd occasion 3 times per race .
I didnt get many complaints from those who were lapping me , in fact I am proud to say I got compliments from Hristo Itchov for my backmarker driving . even though I took him out on one memorable occasion .

I think Hristo is on record as saying more or less the same thing as above , and he has probably lapped more drivers than anyone here , so should know what he'se talking about .

I wouldnt want to change the rules either as I know what nightmares can be caused by drivers slowing suddenly or diving off the line to get out of the way and "help" the driver who is about to lap him .
 
And yes I could have lifted off for david , but what if he had had to swerve for me or I caused a rear ender ? would he have been happy then , I dont think so !

That is exactly what happened in the recent F2 race at Bremgarten when I made a mistake , moved off line and took the race leader off who was lapping me at the time , fortunately he recovered unharmed and was able to drive on,  but the F2 mod crash boxes are a lot more forgiving than the 67's as we all know ,  add in the chances of a warp contact making a disaster even more likely

So hopefully we have all learned something from this discussion and can now move on , perhaps take some of it on board for next season , though I doubt it will be the last time we here from disgruntled drivers who have had incedents arising from cars being lapped . 


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 23 (2012) Privateers Trophy (67) - Mexico City - Dec 2
Post by: Hristo Itchov on December 09, 2012, 08:27:02 PM +0000
The biggest issue when a lapped driver doesn't try to help at least a little and instead wants the leading driver to make the move, is when the speed differential is not so big or especially when the backmarker is driver a car with a stronger engine, thus having better acceleration and higher top speed. That means the leading driver is only making up time in corners, where you can't really pass, so unless the backmarker eases off on corner exit, it's impossible to pass safely.