SimRacing.org.uk

THIS POST IS FOR THE LIGHT & HEAVY RACES

The F2 season draws to a close at Jops Siffert, a fantasy track in the Swiss mountains as a tribute to Jo Siffert. Like so many of the legends from his era, Jo was killed racing at Brands Hatch in 1971.

The championships in both Divisions are pretty much decided but that doesn’t stop us going racing.
The top three runners in each division are restricted as follows.
LIGHTS Hristo – Ferrari or Brabham BT14. Goran  & Evil - Ferrari, Brabham BT14 or Cooper.
HEAVY Phil Thornton – Ferrari or Brabham BT14. Rainier & Dave Cutis - Ferrari, Brabham BT14 or Cooper. (Hint to Dave C – most people would not take the BT14 by choice).

The series will be run on two separate grids; The Lights (on T7) & the Heavys (on UKGPL 3). Please ensure you join the correct race. The Driver list is shown below & the Championship Table can be found here F2 European Tour (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=366&theme=6)

Unlimited resets are allowed but every Shift R must be followed by a Stop & Go in the pit lane. If you Reset on the last lap a 30 second time penalty will be awarded.
Incidents should be reported in the usual way.
In line with other divisions the races will be subject to full moderation in the red zone which will be to the apex of the Scherrer  corner. The Moderator may chose to investigate any other incident, in addition to reported incidents & red zone incidents.

Please note that for Season 23 UKGPL has introduced a system of penalties within each series for drivers accumulating yellow cards – see here
Penalty Points (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=10879.0). Drivers incurring these penalties will receive a PM advising when a penalty has been applied & what race it should served.

LIGHT	HEAVY
Al Hellar	Badblood
Alex Barresi	Bernie
Cookie	Billy Nobtrakes
Evil Clive	Dave Curtis
Fulvio	Francesco
Goran	Geoff
John Roberts	Giovanni
Mark Barresi	Il Lupo
Nicky Ickx	Jonny O
Ron C	Phil Thornton
Robert John	Rainier
Magic Arisoulle	Jonny
Clutch	xxxxx
Blito	xxxxx
Hristo	Paul Bird
Arf Arf	Rog UK
Natan	Derek Flint
Skymole	Miniblood / the Mayor
Raoni Frizzo	xxxxx
Tom G	xxxxx
A Monteiro	xxxxx

Race List = IGOR Server = UKGPL3 & T7 Race date = Friday 07-12-2012 Time = 21:00 UK time (21:00 GMT) Track = Jops Siffert (http://www.f1legends.ch/update/circuits/jops.php) Race length = 26 Laps Variant = 1967 Formula 2 Damage Model = Intermediate Qualifying time = max. 30 minutes

Cool track , where have you been hiding this one  :)

Largely in the GT's...

T7 server is set to 26 laps Long race and listening on Igor in Console session with OpenGL_V2.
Ciao

RACE UPDATE
As we seem to comfortably fit all drivers on one grid both the Lights & Heavys will probably be on UKGPL3 for tonight's race.

 :wacko: I wont be up for this race, as I catched a bloody cold..

gla & fun

Schade, gute Besserung Nicky!

I shall sit this out too - I'm far too tired for racing! Hot bath and an early night for me!

I'm really really sorry about the armaggedon at T1 :'(

It was 101% my fault. I lost concentration because I thought I had jump started (and I didn't...) and when I noticed I was crashing into Tristan's car. A ridiculous move by me, like a complete beginner :-[

I accept any kind of penalty that the moderators will give me, ebcause I surely ruined lots of races...it's a shame. After that Grosjean moment I couldn't keep my focus on the race and, after another mistake, I decided to retire.

Once again, sorry to everybody I harmed today. I hope you had at least some fun even after that...

Too many incidents;  and not all involving *that* bit of fence.    And those cows are certainly brave - maybe they are used to it by now...

Unfortunately various issues meant joining just before start of the race.  Rightful place at the back of the (large) grid - at least there was a good view of the acrobatics ahead :)

In the end, turned out to be another duff outing.  Shame - as it sure is pretty around here.

Well, thanks all for what has been a particularly enjoyable mod/season.  Although I have a feeling the mods will be busy this time...


I must say that I'm a little uneasy with the couple of combined grids.  Not to say that the beginners don't take it seriously;  but maybe there is serious & serious?  I hope the pros were not inconvenienced too much by playing with the beginners.     But of course, at the same time  - a grid of half a dozen cars looks a little sparse (err.. a little GTL/GTR-like maybe? not that I know anything about those btw)


Cheers chaps,
Dave.

OK, I am a bad looser, a really bad looser, but when I finally was turned over by a lapped car when I made a mistake in my pursuit of Al I just left.

There were lots of stuff going on all race. If this has to do with the combined grids I do not know but you just do not race a car that laps you, trying to retake the position. If you are a lap down you should not get in the way of the battle for the lead. You do not drive out of the pits right in front of cars on the track, you just have to have some kind of overview of what is happening around you.

This makes Al`s achievement even more admirable so I take my hat off.

Now I just need to find a way to overcome this, any suggestions?

Göran

Tonight's race proved bigger grids don't produce higher quality races. I'd rather race in a small but closely matched field. Couldn't even get a clean lap in Qualifying, and then the start of the race was total carnage. Arf was then incredibly mad in his defensive driving, but eventually it took him out, so I grabbed the lead. That lasted for some laps until I got bored and tried pushing for fastest laps, which eventually put me into a tree and the subsequent stop/go's for 2 shift-r's put an end to any hope for victory. Grats to Al!

Hang on a mo, Hristo

All the chat after the race was about my lines on the straights, where I make no apologies for driving in diagonals to try and stop you getting the draft from my car - it was a vain hope that I'd get away from you, as you were able to take the last 2/3 corners of the lap better than me, but I don't believe there is anything wrong with that (i.e. I wasn't blocking cos there was no way you had the grunt to pass on the straights).

Apart from that I was doing what I could to drive a consistent lap and try and stay on the black stuff. Now yes, my racecraft isn't as good as many here, so that doesn't always happen, but I draw the line at 'mad'. I noticed in practice races that there appeared to be a wide range of differing approaches to the lines in some corners and that you have to be very careful about how close you get to people. You were all over me in many corners and that can take my eye off the lines sometimes, but that's racing. I would also point out that the only time we made contact it was you that tapped me from behind, which is your responsibility - does that (and jinxing left and right looking for opportunities) make you mad? No - it made you as determined to get past me as I was to keep you behind me - not in any sense of illegal blocking, just that I was having to drive bloody hard to try and be quick enough.

Arf

What a race ! I think I had more accidents here than in all the season 23 ;)
First at the start.
Then when a car made a stop and go and I couldn't avoid it when it restarted from pits (exit of pits in Jops Siffert are one of the more dangerous of all tracks).
Then when my team mate Dave C. spun and blocked me during 10 seconds against the trees.
Then when I restarted from pits with cold tyres and was overtaken by one of the leader + Phil and Bernie ...and these 3 drivers collided just in front of me !

I also agree with Göran about the final collision and the lapped car too closely following the leaders.

...But I really prefered this kind of race with combined grids than boring race with only 6 or 7 cars when you are driving alone during 90% of the time.  

Grats to Phil for the "heavy' championship.

...as for the race, I was amazed to get to the first corner in P3, and exit it P1. On the grid, the car in front of me seemed to start and stop, and I instinctively veered right to avoid contact. I was lucky not to hit anyone, and surprised not to be further back as my acceleration wasn't constant from the off.

As already mentioned H and I locked horns for a few laps, with me in the Matra having way better grunt than the Ferrari. I couldn't compete in the last 3 corners, but even when overtaken here, I could pass back on the s/f straight. Lost it around lap 7/8 with a clumsy change down into T1, and lost the leading pack. After that it was a relatively quiet affair with lots of semi-exciting moments trying to to decide how back markers would react to me lapping them - everyone I encountered was fine, not the experience of everyone, it seems.

Overall, I thought the larger grid was better than the alternative.

AAA

Grats to podium ..... Now the apoligies sorry to Evilclive got in your way about lap 2, sorry again to Rainer took you out on about lap 3 when exiting pits on my stop and go (prib was working fine during quall but got discoed and when returned no prib for race (is this a win7 problem?) i know lame excuse). I find racing with the Aliens is very intimidating and for me and the Aliens this is not good, they would rightly say i ruin there race. I like racing at UKGPL but for me with virtually no spare time for praccy the different driver levels need to be seperated so all drivers can enjoy there racing.

 Warning, I'm not going to win the race(HEAVY), the victory will be of Rainier.

  I made a mistake on the first lap absurd, trampling Bernie :oops:, sorry!!

Jonny, let's wait for the moderation. We could have some surprises  ;)

Great track (must be one of the best fantasy circuits) which often seems to produce exciting races. I was all set to take the Brabham BT23 but switched to the Mclaren at the last minute when I saw lots of other Brabs joining & thought it'd be nice to be different :P This was a bit of an error as I never got to grips with the Mclaren & struggled to get near my previous pace in the Brab. Lining up 9th on the grid didn't bode well for race glory but a good start & a clear path through the turn 1 incident allowed me up to 4th behind Arf, Hristo & Giovani. Had a very-near miss when Giovani went off at the fast RH bend after the esses & bounced back across the track. Up to 3rd then & Arf & Hristo looked to be having an intense battle for 1st place & with Cookie & Goran close behind me, I tried to use the tow from the leaders to help me build a cushion. Despite some errmm interesting lines down the straight from Arf's Matra, H remained glued to his rear & finally found a way through. Arf fought back but then went off at T1 which promoted me to 2nd - muhaha I thought, without Arf's tow H's puny Ferrari will be easy prey for me... except I totally got that wrong - on a clear track H went quicker than ever, instead I was now struggling to keep up!

A recovering & very quick Giovani demoted me to 3rd again but then gave me another scare when he went off in front of me at the same place as before. Then with about 10 laps to go, I caught sight of H ahead & realised he must've had a problem. This was confirmed at the end of the lap when he pulled in for a stop & go & I suddenly found myself in the lead. Expecting H to come charging back, I tried to turn up the heat a bit but no matter what I tried, I just couldn't get the Mclaren going at all. Nevertheless with H seemingly hitting more trouble & now Goran's Cooper a few seconds behind, I thought I had enough to hold on. A glance at Prib with 5 laps to go & I realised I'd been caught napping; Goran was taking huge chunks out of me & would soon be right in my slipstream! Despite my best efforts in the closing laps, Goran was way too close for comfort - I knew he'd give everything at the final corner but then he got hit from behind & that was that. If it's any consolation Goran, I looked to have just about done enough on the final lap to stay ahead but one more lap & I'd have been history. Congrats to Hristo & Clive for making it a Waza-1-2 in the championship.    

I wasn't accusing you of anything other than driving like a madman, Arf.  ;D What I meant was you were constantly swerving heavily on the straights to try and break the tow, but I didn't say you were blocking me or something, because you weren't. I also meant that you were almost always going beyond your limit in corners, sliding around, clipping dirt edges on the exits and so on, so more like "mad" in a funny good way. I do admit however that I was irritated by that and that we both lost time by it. In my opinion you would have been more efficient if you just drove normally, because I didn't really have any real means of passing you. You saw yourself how easy it was for you to pass me back on the straight.


It's too random, hazardous and leads to unrealistic results in the championship. It may be "fun", but it's not my kind of fun really. I'd say it was more frustrating than it was fun. On the other hand we have rules and penalties may sort out overly-aggressive driving, but it still doesn't make up for any bad results someone may have because of the sheer difference in pace between some drivers and the subsequent risk of incidents.

From the perspective of those who are usually in the lead, it's a bad thing, but I can see how it's a good thing from the point of view of people who are usually near the back, because it gives them more chances to make up positions. I don't really see the benefit though. You rarely race against more than 2-3 people who have the same pace as you, the rest are either non-existent or backmarkers, or traffic in qualifying, or people you have to let by when the lap you.

Remember that people make mistakes. Big grids give you more chances for an actual race afther a mistake.

It's not about normal mistakes, but forced mistakes due to difference in pace between drivers who would normally be put in different divisions. Yesterday's race was a clear indication it doesn't work well.

I wasn't racing yesterday, but from what I've read problem wasn't in the speed difference(witch IMO for experienced drivers shouldn't be a big problem), but in lack of racecraft. And racecraft can be taught a lot easier than speed ;)

Perhaps, but it's related, because in their effort to close up the gap, drivers push beyond their safe margins. It's also a matter of keeping in control, of not panicking, of driving your own race. Those things are best taught in a more relaxed environment though, not in a hectic race with a mixed grid.

Well that was a crazy race from my perspective.  I must have done 5 Shift Rs and S&Gs; I'll check later.  I got caught up in the mayhem at T1 on L1 and ended up loosing a lot of time.  I needed a decent draft to keep my Ferrari with the pack but there was nobody in sight and without prib I had no idea what position I was in.  I pushed hard to try and catch up but I just ended up overdriving the car and making mistakes.  I dropped further and further back as the shift-Rs and S&Gs took their toll.  At the end I had a great battle with Billy but I pushed a bit too hard and crashed on the last lap.  I had nothing to loose so it was worth pushing hard (without putting Bill at risk of course ;) ).

I found the mixed grid distracting.  There was far too much going on for me to know where my real competition was.  Having aliens in much faster cars just made things worse.  I don't think I got in anyones way but at one stage I got rear ended at the "jump".  I think that was simply down to my relatively slow pace, but I was trying my best, honest!!  :)

Grats to Jonny on the provisional win and to David if he inherits it after the moderating.

I have enjoyed this series.  I hope we run it again next season but with a few tweaks to the handicapping (like only being restricted to the BT14 or Ferrari if the championship leader has a large lead).

As I was passing by to see what's going on in the UKGPL, I noticed your Jops Siffert Intro and I feel I should correct it as a mark of respect for Jops.

It is not related to Jo Siffert which I liked a lot btw, he was a star with the 908s . I saw him in 69 at Brands Hatch and he gave quite a show. Who would have thought this day that he would die at the same place 2 years later ...
Jops  was one of the creator of F1Legends in 2001. He was very dedicated to the league and his enthusiasm for GPL was apparently very contagious. He was involved in circuits design and was acting to bring back closed circuit racing in Switzerland. He died in 2001 from a heart attack after an intense karting session in Fribourg. He was 40 years old.
The circuit was designed in memoriam. Closed circuit racing is back in Switzerland !

hi :)
 ......where Ican find the reaplay !?.

...thx 

Tristan - Replay should be here http://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/inc_replaysS23_js.aspx

Looking at the various comments the mixed grid wasn't the best idea. I tend to find that grids of less than 10 cars feel a bit empty. We ran the same format at Bremgarten without any complaints. Perhaps the layout of this track (particularly the pit lane exit) was an unfounate combination.

Personally I think the F2 is a great mod & the plan is to run them again, taking into account some of the lessons from the debut season e.g. handicaps & mixed grids.

Pierre - apologies for the misunderstanding on my part! It is, nonetheless, a very good track.

thx Billy :)....I have post for the incident....

....after the crash at T1 , I have to do shift-r, and lost many time ,so I try to come back as quick as I can to the front of the race .....but I have to SandG and the track is full of cars .....and to pit-in Ihave to slow down in the straight .... quite dangerous with all this trafic ....and also very long time to wait till the track is free to retake the track......so I decide to wait one or 2 laps for my SandG.....and I hit F.Molteni who unfortunatly is not fair play enought to let the room free ....or maybe he don't race with Pribluda !?...anyway it's my fault I must wait the straight line to over pass him  ...ok !
.....it's at this momment that I saw my fuel in red !!???.....hell ! I have only 5 laps fuel .....mistake in the garage !!....then I stop my race .....:/
....sorry for that bad race .....
...and my question is : do we have to do shift-r immédiately after the crash or we can do it with a delay ???
because if , like this race , a big crash append at T1 and 3 or 4 or more cars have to do shift-r....every body have to SandG in the same time .....look's like Tchernobyl .....!!! :laugh:

You don't have to take the Stop n Go immediately but as soon as is practicable. If the pit lane is full it is fine to go round again.

And as you can see mod done. Sorry for the delay - my fault, not Billy's.