SimRacing.org.uk

WELCOME to the UKGPL Season 24 - Historics Trophy - Round 2  

For this 2nd race, we go to Spain to the classic street circuit at Montjuich Parque.  
The circuit was the venue for the Spanish Motorcycle Grand Prix from 1950 to 1968, and then hosted F1 cars on even-numbered years until 1976. The last F1 Grand Prix held there in 1975, is notable for a fatal crash that led to Formula One abandoning the venue.


For THIS RACE, ONLY 3 liters car could be selected


There will be full moderation of lap one Red Zone and reported incidents for the rest of the race.
Please submit incident reports within a week after the race so that the moderators report may be out before the next race.
Full time drivers have priority access to the server until 21.00 UK time.
Please restrict your chat to a minimum!

Race List	=	IGOR
Server	=	UKGPL_T7
IP Address	=	62.149.202.168
Race date	=	29-01-2013
Qualification Time	=	~20:45  UK time -> 30-45 mins
Race Time	=	race starts at 21:30 UK time
Track	=	Montjuic Parque 1969	montjuic (http://montjuich.speedgeezers.net/)
Variant	=	66mod
Damage Model	=	PRO
Race length	=	~50 min -> 34 laps
RED ZONE	=	from race start to the exit of Teatro Griego
Password	=	see above (#post_event_password)
Replay	=	you will get here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Replays/Archive/Season24/Historics/)

GLA

Wasn't very confident as I have never managed a lap in the 3L cars...

Still qualified and was not last (second last...) and made a good start. Super cautious at T1 and took a VERY wide line to avoid ANY possible trouble but slid slightly and tapped the Armco at 3mph. AT which point my front wheel fell off. I had to laugh. Worth coming just to help start the server. Hope it is a bit better NEXT Tuesday.

Screen freeze while in second place  :'( :'( :'( Good luck to everyone still running.

freeze for me too... :-\

screenfreeze from 3 rd

Screen freeze from 2nd place with about 10 laps to go. Had screen freeze here in 65 Pros last week too along with several others. Can be stop using this track please? It's clearly dodgy.

Nice racing with Ronnie who was going really well until he got frozen.

Apologies to the back of the grid for my start.
For some reason the GPL game rotates my steering wheel at the start. It will usually rotate to normal - but it didn't unlock until the start flag went down. The wheel was so far that I selected what I thought was 1st only to move backwards! After a couple of moments I worked out  I was in reverese - those behind me - particularly Pierre - must have though WHAT IS THIS IDIOT DOING - well now you know. Probably due a penalty for being a muppet.
I do like this track - apart from the speed bump on the main straight - which finally caught me out about 1/2 distance & deposited me in the haybales at Turn 1.
Sorry for those who had screen freezes - shame if we lose a a good track - but there are many more to try out.
Good to have Goran back on track for Season 24.

I had a CDT again in qually, (  just as I was about to snatch pole position of course!) That required a total switch off and restart to clear the sound loop and by the time I returned to GPL world....the server was full!! :-\ 

Rats!!! again.

This PC is very close to a getting a hosepipe where it does not want it!!!  :cursing:

It's odd people have screen freeze problems with Montjuic, I never experienced any issues with it. Perhaps there is some fix which I installed, can't really remember at the moment. Could be down to some graphics settings as well.

Quite a good race for me.  Had a nice battle with Andreas for most of the race.  I had a couple of spins (one when Hristo was about to lap me - I should stop looking in my mirrors when he's behind me!!!).  My connection held together and I managed to finish,  second was a bit flattering given so many people had PC trouble.  Grats to H on the win and David for a hard earned third place.  Nice to see Bernie up near the front too.

Billy, I couldn't even make a decent lap in practice. My ambition on the grid was to avoid the 1st lap crash and retreat to the pits as soon as I would be lapped . I didn't see you as an idiot, you were the first element of the excuse I had to present to Mauro Forghieri !   ;D
Freeze for me too. Ironically, fps were at 36 .

Looking forward to the Ring.

Thanks Billy, nice to be back but this Historic season has been not good so far. Missed the first and screen freeze in this. Lucky for me there is only 8 races that counts.

But it is nice to see some not so common drivers on the podium, and from my perspective it looked quite close at the front to begin with so maybe H will have some things to think about this season.

Göran

Seems so. Florian was quicker than me and was pulling away after he took the lead. Art was obviously missing from the race, but he would be a contender, no question. In my defense I have to say the BRM handles quite badly!  ;D I thought it's a top car, but I see it's a Group 2 instead of Group 3 car, and it showed. I was struggling for grip under power, and the car had massive understeer in the fast corners where Florian was gaining noticeably, so I had to take massive risks in the twistier bits. Nearly crashed quite a number of times.

It's was you then!! I was the one just behind you and I couldn't believe my eyes... ???

I was looking forward to a decent place finish here but was suprised to find the 2.7 Brabby I had pre tuned to the track did not quallify as a 3 ltr car so had a choice of any pukka 3 ltr , took the popular brabbby but no set up , tried the default and found it totally lacking so cobbled up a set up for the race most of which was a blurr , I can only remember my tussle with Dave Curtis which seemed to go on forever, he got the better of me once or twice but we both made small mistakes and see sawed around , close racing at times , eventually with a humungus effort was able to open up a small gap but then lost concentration , relaxed a bit too much and overshot the downhill haipin and into the wheel removing armco  .

Loved this track but perhaps I'm biased as I have some great memories of the place , both wonderful and terrifying 

No Disco or FR problems here at all

Grats to the Pods and all who finished with there sumps intact  ;)

Perhaps it's down to your PC configuration H? Or maybe it's the mod - I've not had problems racing here with 67's either but 65's & 66's have both ended with freeze. I did a quick search & notice it's on the track blacklist at Gplracer: http://forum.gplracer.eu/topic.php?id=50& (http://forum.gplracer.eu/topic.php?id=50&) Also I do remember reading stuff about it being freeze-prone on SRMZ. We seem to have had 6+ drivers freeze out at this race so it seems pretty unreliable.

Yeh yeh. I froze - that was it. It wasn't me driving into the armco at all...  ;D

I'm not sure what is the reason, but I do experience freezes on other tracks and track-mod combinations which are known for causing it. This was probably my 5th or 6th league race at Montjuic though and I've not retired because of a screen freeze in any of them.

Nor have I (and I have completed 1 or 2 laps!) but I did notice a big frame rate drop in sections of the track in qually. Went from 36 -> 24 -> 18 and it was quite juddery but then it picked up again.

Montjuic used to cause me problems both offline, and online, and GPLRacers blacklisting seemed justified.  But after installing one of the addons designed to fix the hotspots, it's been fine.

We run the risk of missing out on tracks unnecessarily, if some don't do their homework.  Real drivers don't  have to repair racetracks, before racing on them, but maybe we do.  :hammer: :scared:

History relates that the real life drivers along with there mechanics did have to fix the montjuic track before it was deemed safe to race  :)

So there  :P

So, the truth will out!   It's one thing for a spectator to throw an empty drinks bottle at a runner, but quite another to dig potholes into a track, over a blind rise before a hairpin.  Herr Rindt would argue one was missed, until he hit it.  Sounds suspiciously like it was all Bernie's fault! ;D

Moderation published.

ok,I accepte anyway the rulls, but I finish in the same lap than the winner and nobody overtake me during the race...I normaly finish 2 nd but never mind......all this because I make all the qualifs with my 65's setup !!??....I see my mistake about 5 mn to the end of qualifs and change for the good setup 66.....after that I miss again the starter and start from the pits.... , but it was a solid race till the end ....thx to everybody...and I promesse to don't miss the next start :)

Thanks, Tristan !

(just a question : how is it possible to select a mod65 setup when running in mod66 ? Maybe it is linked to the player's name : I use a different player name per each mod so no confusion risk)

I think since starting from the pits is allowed officially, it should always be OK for someone to use if necessary, and the results to be fixed if necessary. It has happened many times in the past for many different drivers, myself included, and it has always been fixed by the mods. It's not always because of starting from the pits that you may drop a lap behind, it could happen due to lag as well. Are you saying results won't be fixed at all in the future if such things occur?

We will fix the results where there is a clear error by the game but the layout of this track means that you start from in front of the start finish line so the result is actually correct. It can be quite a lot of work to fix the results but where there is a clear injustice or server error, we will do so.

This isn't an error, just that Tris was late...

Many tracks have such a layout (Monaco and Rouen come to mind), that doesn't mean the starting from the pits is intended to put you a lap down (it would be meaningless like that). The first few pit stalls on such tracks are in front of the s/f line and for some people it won't happen, so it would create unfair treatment if you pay attention to that. It's just a flaw in the GPL engine track design and we shouldn't be bound by it.

I can remember starting one particular race from the pits where I had qualified right at the back of the grid ( can't remember the track right now ) but the thing is , when I emerged from the pit lane I was up there with the leaders , in fact I prolly could have got out in front of the whole field with a better launch . I'm sure there are a few tracks were the start line is before the pits and would give a similar advantage , however the penalty is you drop a lap , I accepted that and think it is fair , if your gonna get the lap back after racing think i will be making a few more pit lane starts , after all the downer of starting from the rear , particularly with the stupidly extended grids means by the time you get away the leaders are already half a lap ahead , escpecially some tracks when we can't see the flag and have to wait for the car in front to move as a start signal .

Yep , Pit lane start is the way to go so look out Hristo here I come  ;)

Well in either case the results should be adjusted to reflect the actual position.

The actual position is that he did 33.9 laps... not 34.

Not making the grid may or not may be his fault but normally we would only correct clear server errors where the server has 'dropped' a driver when we would review a client replay.

It isn't hard and fast but I would like to discourage people from starting from the pit lane as it can cause problems and I certainly don't think somebody should be able to gain an advantage by doing so.

I still don't see how someone gains an advantage by starting some 20-30 seconds after the field has gone by.

Advantage is that the elapsed race time id for, say 33.9 laps, not 34 and if you then manually add a lap you reduce the average lap time. There is a possibility therefore that you may gain a place that you do not actually merit from the race pace.

For instance, Driver A completes 20 laps in 40mins, Driver B completes 19.9 in 39mins 59secs. If we up Driver B's laps to 20 they come in ahead of Driver A but if they had completed the full 40 laps they would have taken longer than Driver A and should, therefore, be classified behind them.

afair the wait is 10sec until the green flag shows Hristo , if you start from the back (which for some reason you never seem to  :o ) the time delay with a full or near full grid and escpecially with a widely spaced out grid (like what we use)  in real terms,  is considerably more   :)

One other thing about the "starting from pit lane" issue (from someone who had a podium finish taken away a week after the event in question https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=11423#event3572 (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=11423#event3572)):

If I'm racing against someone on the track, but according to prib and the pitboard they're a lap down, I'm not going to fight very hard, or take any chances that may risk collision. I have no way to know that they've started from the pitlane, and the stewards are going to adjust anything after the race. As far as I know, they're a lap down.

I don't have (much) issue with the result from the F2 race at Reims (as the moderator made it clear that was a ONE-TIME allowance). Making repeated allowances for someone's failure to appear on the grid on time is unfair to the rest, imo. The race times are published well in advance. They are part of the rules, which we're all supposed to follow. If you don't follow the rules, be prepared to pay the price.

Totally agree, well said that man  :)

OK, I agree it should be different if someone starts from the pitlane regularly, but we should make allowances for random occasions when someone has no other choice. Perhaps 1-2 times per driver per season? But then people may start to take advantage of that on purpose... I don't know really, sometimes it's reasonable, other times it's not.  ::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tym0MObFpTI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tym0MObFpTI)


 ::) ::) ::)

no problem guys :)...... Iagree whith you ... ;D
....but one thing is the reaplay .....and as you can see clearly, I'm starting dead last .....where is the advantage  ??  ...I was 4th on the grid !!!.so it's a advantage for all the other behind me........another thing is ,I over take the 2 pilotes who finish in front of me !!!! and nobody over take me during the all race ??!!.....last thing is that I'v done all the complete laps of the race ( as you can see on reaplay ! ) ....so pribluda and the export are one thing , and can fell......I thing the reaplay speak by imself......and start from pits don't give you any advantage , that 's shure and evident !!! and logical ....how can be easyer to overtake 17 pilotes when you have the possibility to overtake only 3 !!.???...... ???

....ciao  :-*

Tristan,

the advantage has been perfectly explained by Dean Logan :

If I'm racing against someone on the track, but according to prib and the pitboard they're a lap down, I'm not going to fight very hard, or take any chances that may risk collision. I have no way to know that they've started from the pitlane, and the stewards are going to adjust anything after the race. As far as I know, they're a lap down.

hum !....ok :)....but Ithing it's just because prib cannot manage a start from the pits......I'v seen prib at many times whith wrong informations , that why I prefere look what append on track..what was my color 's name on prib when I was just behind a pilote and ready to overpass ??..what about the blue flag ? ....it's meen somebody will lapped you and you have to let him pass ...and during the race , do you see this blue flag at that moment ??, Ihad to fight to overpass just like I don't start from pits....the only pilotes who let me pass quite easely are those who anderstand what append .....
 ....Dave if I'm not wrong , I overpass you 2 times during the race ....so how can you finish in front of me ???

DLogan ...I don't see you let me pass easely ( because I 'm one lap down ??......hum ! that meen you have allready lapped me one times!!! right ??... :)  during the race ....so if you even don't know if you ave lapped a pilote it's maybe 'cause you are looking prib to mutch   :-*....look at the track....this is a good way to know from where the guy come !....if you have lapped nobody don't trust prib.....but anyway Icome from the back of the field and I'm shure that most of the pilotes anderstand what append.....    ....so the race export is one thing and can work wrong, and prib can also easely disfonctioned.....in a doubt look the reaplay......can we have better evidences !?

bye...

Instead of telling other people what to do, how about making the start on time, so there's no problem to begin with?

It is looked at on a case by case basis but in general terms we will not reset the number of laps.

Starting from the pits is a clear disadvantage but we would like drivers to avoid doing so. I know it is sometimes unavoidable (it happened to me at Albi because I couldn't click the green button) but it should not become a regular thing.

no problem guys  ;).....it's just a game  :angel:......I promess to do my best to start from my qualif place for the next race ;D.....

No, only one time.
If you overpass me 2 times, you'll finish in front of me, starting from the pits or not. 


or maybe, because you were on the pits, doing a stop'n'go.

 

...hum!!...sorry Dave you'r wright , I overtake you only once.......the strange thing is that gpl don't count me my first lap, justa like it was my last qualif lap ?!!?.....and then prib don't anderstand what's append..!and count me one lap down.....??

        ....GPL is a so good simulation , but not perfect .....specialy to manadge the pit stop.... ;D   ( and other things like contact between cars...)

As was said already, you were a lap down because the position in the pitlane which you started from was ahead of the s/f line, so you had to do a whole lap before you started lap 1.