SimRacing.org.uk

Season 24 Historic Trophy (66) - Round 3 - Nürburgring

The third round of the season will be at Nürburg in Germany.  An iconic track, loved by some, hated by others.  Commonly referred to as "The Green Hell" thanks to Jackie Stewart, the Nordschleife provided the ultimate challenge for the Formula one drivers in the 1960s.  With 160 turns over 14.2 miles the track twists and turns, rises and falls through the stunning countryside of the Eifel mountains.  It is still regarded by many as the most demanding and difficult purpose-built racing circuit in the world.

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_T7
IP address = 62.149.202.168
Race date = 12-02-2013
Race Time = race starts at 21:30 UK time
Qualifying Time = Between 30 and 60 minutes, starting no later than 21:00 UK time
Track = papyrus original
Variant = 66mod
Damage Model = PRO
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 6)
Password: see above (#post_event_password)
Replays Available here (http://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/inc_replaysS24_js.aspx)
Driver lists and token rules can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=387&theme=6)
The track can be downloaded from : papy track

The full time drivers can start to practice as soon as the server is available.  Reserve drivers can also join as soon as the server becomes available but must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes; this will allow any remaining full timers to join.  If there is enough space on the grid, the reserve drivers will be able to rejoin when there are 30 mins of qualifying left.  

Please restrict chat to pit messages including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

The race will be run under PRO rules so no resets are allowed.



Moderating The red zone will be fully moderated for lap 1 only. For this event the red zone will be from the start line to the Flugplatz. Other moderation will be on reported incidents only.  However any incidents that occur in the red zone that are not reported by the drivers will be reported by the moderator.  This will allow all affected drivers the opportunity to present their case before the incident is moderated.  This should ensure there are no surprises when the moderator's report is published and hence appeals will be less likely.  If you haven't received a PM about an incident before the link below the results table is removed, you can be sure that you will not appear in the moderator's report.


For THIS RACE, ONLY 2 liters car could be selected

 
The cars
Group I
T1F Eagle Climax
Lotus 33 Climax

Group II
Brabham BT11 2.5lt
Lotus 33 BRM


GroupIII
Ferrari 246
Brabham BT11 BRM
BRM P261
Brabham BT11 2.7lt


Driver Restricted to cars from Group I

Dave Rainier


Drivers Restricted to cars form Group II or Group I

Al Heller
Andreas Gebhardt


All other drivers have free chassis choice .

Please reconsider the handicapping for this race, it is so close in the championship that to handicap drivers at this point will only make the competition unjust.

But that is only my thoughts of cause.

Göran

I agree with you Göran (and not only because I am the most impacted driver by this rule).
Just want to be sure what are the rules in such a case with so close results !?

I don't want to have in this topic 3 or 4 pages from some driver(s) disputing every decision ... 

I thought this season it's free car choice for all for the first 3 rounds in all divisions with handicap system?

I am also restricted to a Group II or Group I car. But I do not have a problem with this.  :) Especially not at the Nordschleife. There were people even in a F2 car faster then other in a F1, for instance David Hobbs.  ;)

Things may be nice and close at the top of the Historic series for some, but the handicapping system is there to even things out for all over the course of the season. We all knew the rules before we signed up, so it seems a little early in the season to be asking for rules changes?

The Historic Trophy division
The first two races will not be handicapped and after that the top three drivers in the championship may, at the moderator's discretion, be limited to a slower car. If handicapping is in action then handicapped drivers will be notified in the race post.


The Pro Trophy
As the senior division with the best drivers, there will be no handicap and drivers have a free chassis choice. Once a chassis is selected, a driver should stay in that chassis for ALL races. This rule can be relaxed at the Moderator's discretion only.

OK, so it's the first two races here. I guess I was thinking about one of the other divisions. All fine then, let's respect the rules!

This is not a question of respecting rules it is a question of having a "at the moderators discretion" rule and use it when there really is very little difference in the table, only a few points between drivers. Why?

Göran

Well, I raced for multiple seasons being handicapped for leading the championship after the very first race and never had an exception made for me. Why do you think it should be done now? The system won't work properly if we start making exceptions. If the points between drivers are close and 1-2 of them are handicapped, it would simply switch their positions around a bit and next race the handicap will be reversed, so it works as intended. It may not produce closer racing currently if someone is handicapped, but it will keep the championship close, which was what the handicap system is meant to do. And anyway, the cars here have small differences between each other.

Must apologise. The rules were modified after the demise of the Ints and I didn't update the Season pages. Might have caused some confusion.

That ios why the Pros ended up slightly different to the Historics. We will try and align the rules next season to make it more consistent.

So what is your conclusion ?

Written rules are "The first two races will not be handicapped and after that the top three drivers in the championship may, at the moderator's discretion, be limited to a slower car. If handicapping is in action then handicapped drivers will be notified in the race post."

Hristo remark "The system won't work properly if we start making exceptions" is not valid because it is clearly indicated "at the moderator's discretion".

Nevertheless, I will keep the handicaps for the 3 drivers , it has not a great importance in tracks like the Nordschleife.

Did you mean to post this in the Pro's thread? Not really seeing how it relates to what is being discussed here.  :P As far as I know Historics system was never intended to be changed, but quite the opposite - other divisions to use the same system, based on championship positions.

Oops... It was Pros  ;D

IGOR-Chat don´t work and no UKGPL-Server to see, what now?

Same here.

use yer nouse  ;)

Celtic vs Juve then bed!!

We are waiting Paul.
I tried to launch the race but server should not be yet ready
Please wait

race list is up but no server , "yet"  ???


and waiting  ::)

I can't get into Chat at all

Don´t want to chat, only want to race. :)

same for me.

Maybe you can start the server or make it ready for Igor ?

Is there a problem with the server?

server started but laps number should be uncorrect

Join via IP ???

now I see a server but it is a novice race

Server corrected. Can't race, I am ill.   :P

Enjoy.

While the Novice server was corrected the Novice driving was not.

If you make a mistake at the Ring its tough. But to follow it with an appallingly bad rejoin and agressive driving to make up the lost time is not the answer. Particularly when comprimising the race of other drivers.

I hope it was worth it. Good luck to you and everyone else still running.

Sky, I'm very sorry for the nudge, but I was caught out by your much lower speed there.

Ronnie
I saw you had to give up during the first lap. :(
There were at least two incidents where we were impacted (sorry, lot of "w(h)ere" in my sentence) : at 3.34, Floran made a very very bad rejoin on the track and we both spun to avoid his car.
Then, at 6:30, there was contact between Goran and me and then between you and me.
Sadly, you had to retire, is this due to both incidents or only one of them ?

I don't miss the start this time.. ;D..I just miss the finish .. :'(...I'm the idiot of the village :-\

My turn to wear the dunces hat after missing the start  ::) (which for some reason I dont understand was from the same place we started the qually laps ) ,  anyway got a bit frustrated trying to catch up and caught the banking instead on the well know killer section going down the into the famous (infamous for some)  addenhourforstentripenupemhousenkorner  , flipped the car upside down and had to retire with a bad head . wasn't really in the mood tonight anyway for some reason, most likely something to do with the temperature in this ruddy loft  :(

well done to the Podium Boys and to all other survivors  :)

But you were great for 5 laps Tris focus on that!

And of cause all the stuff going on was all to my benefit so kind of thanks.

At least a 66 race with a good result for me it has been a while.

And a big Congrats to Al for your long desired results at the Ring WD.

Göran

Oh no, so you binned it, Tristan!? At least that should cement Al to a proper handicap for a while!  ;D

It was just a bad night and I have no problems with Florian, Yourself or Goran. Yes the incidents contributed to my demise but these things happen so I move on. The real problem was my own; the race started too late for me and I should have just gone to bed instead of starting.

A funny race for me - went from terribly bad luck at the start to extremely good fortune at the end. Overtook Raoni off the grid to take 2nd but then had a very hard lap 1 with Clive darting around right behind & looking very keen to get by at every occasion. But of course despite its 180-odd corners, Nurburgring is a bit of a bugger to overtake on, so I did my best to just drive my normal lines & prayed Clive remembered that I brake about 500m before him! 

I was pretty sure Clive would breeze by once we got to the long straight anyway but he'd lost a bit of time through the final sector so was not ideally placed for the tow as we entered the straight. Still despite that he closed the gap steadily & managed to draw alongside just as we were approaching the bridge. Knowing that Clive was likely to be getting a little frustrated being stuck behind me & was well & truly committed, I thought it prudent to give him a bit of space (especially as the Evil one's tail has been known to kick out whilst cornering from time to time...) & sure enough Clive swept past at a rate of knots - only to clip the hedge on the exit & go barrel-rolling wildly down the track :o. With nowhere to go I ploughed into the wreckage at full pelt, spun down the track & then got clouted hard by a following Andreas who'd just swerved to avoid Clive's burning car. After two huge impacts on the left suspension I was certain my race was done, but strangely despite the 'severe damage' the car didn't feel all that bad. Poor Andreas wasn't so fortunate though & after I caught him up pretty easily it was clear he'd got bad damage. 

So up to 3rd & with Hristo & Tristan ahead going quicker than I could, I spent the rest of the race trying to look after my engine (paranoid it would blow after the hard impacts I'd had) while trying to preserve the gap back to Florian & Goran. Got very lucky when both H & Tris crashed - especially unfortunate for Tris who lost it on the last lap. In fact I had no idea Tris had retired until I'd crossed the line - I saw him leave the server but Prib still showed him leading & since he was so far ahead, I'd assumed he'd already finished the race & didn't want to hang around waiting for the rest of us to finish! I know I shouldn't be too proud at inheriting the race win like that, but I've been desperate to win just one at Nurby for years so I'll take it no matter how it comes ;) Congrats to Goran & Andreas & all the finishers.               

Are the results going to be posted soon?

Not happy... car felt good, controller felt good, setup felt good... I probably wont get another race this month :(

Great Performance for Black Night Racing Team !
3 of the 5 finishers, and classified 2nd, 3 rd and 4th !

   

Sorry again, please feel free to report it. I did look at the replay and compared speeds of cars in front of you; your speed on the straight just before I hit you was about equal to or even lower than the cars that were entering the corner some 20-30 meters in front of you, so even though I did brake earlier than normal there was no way I could slow down so much. It is again the situation where it's not so simple to blame the driver behind IMO, but since I did feel bad about it I guess I carried most of the responsibility.

Apologies to Al, for getting him involved in my hedge trimming. My screen went blank as I clipped the greenery and no amount of pounding the escape button would release me from the game.

I had promised myself that I would play safe in this race and drive for a finish, just to test that my Pc was back under control.

but.......... well you know how it is when the adrenaline kicks in and the competitive bug bites??? ::) I found myself jumping up to 3rd off the grid  tucked up behind Al's big Brab. I soon had Raoni snapping at my heels and knew that I could go faster if only I could squeeze past Al. But there are very few opportunities around Nurby and Al was taking all the right lines.
Tris was getting away in front and one or two quick glances at Prib showed that Hristo and one or two other fast boys were coming up behind.
To be honest I was keen to get myself some clear tarmac and settle into my own rhythm, because Al's braking and acceleration points were totally different to mine and although I tried to anticipate his moves I was having to run wide to avoid his gearbox far too often.

I thought that I had blown my chance of a pass on the straight when I made a small error and dropped back. I knew that I could close the gap again even if it was into lap 2 somewhere and simply nailed the go pedal for the straight. I was frankly amazed as the slipstream reeled in Al's car at a tremendous rate and I honestly did think 2 or 3 times about going for the pass. But the speed differential was so great that I was almost forced to make the move ::). I thought I had made a perfect pass, but looking in one's mirrors when you should be concentrating on avoiding the grass verge reaps its own rewards and........
What could have been a good race was cut rather short. I confess that I have lacked any proper concentration for many races lately and have paid the price with too many stupid mistakes. With that and my computer probs I have probably screwed up this seasons chances but heck it is still fun. ;)

Grats to Al. I am relieved that you were able to continue, and to the other finishers.

hi ....just a question ...what exactly meen in the standing page of 66, my 1pt penalty and why my 3pts are in red  color.....thx :)

Yeah, strong performance! Now I'm waiting for the prize money.  :)
Congratulations to the Podium and to all finishers as well.

You got a warning at the Glen for a rear end shunt which attracts 1 penalty point. If you get too many you can have sanctions applied. Whenever you get any penalty, your score is highlighted in red to show EVERYONE that you were a naughty boy...

Moderation published.