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UKGPL => UKGPL Races => Topic started by: Cookie on March 18, 2013, 01:43:03 PM +0000



Title: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: Cookie on March 18, 2013, 01:43:03 PM +0000
UKGPL Season 24 - Pro Trophy - Race 5 Imola  

The circuit is named after Ferrari's late founder Enzo and his son Dino who had died in the 1950s. Before Enzo Ferrari's death in 1988 it was called 'Autodromo Dino Ferrari'.  We will be using the track as it was inaugurated in 1953 when it had no chicanes, so the run from Rivazza all the way to Tosa, through the pits and the eventually notorious Tamburello was totally flat out, as was the run from Acque minerali all the way to Rivazza which is just a long straight with a few small bends.  The circuit remained in this configuration until 1972.

The Pro Drivers will have a free car choice. Drivers will have to remain in that chassis for the rest of the season, they will only be allowed to swap chassis in exceptional circumstances and only with the approval of the moderator.

There will be full moderation of lap one Red Zone and reported incidents for the rest of the race.
Please submit incident reports within a week after the race so that the moderators report may be out before the next race.
Full time drivers have priority access to the server until 21.00 UK time.
Please restrict your chat to a minimum!

The specific division rules for the Pro Trophy (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=391&theme=6) have changed as the INT division has been suspended.
Handicapping will be introduced from race three onwards and will only affect the top three drivers in the championship. The top three drivers may, at the moderator's discretion, be limited to a slower car. If handicapping is in action then handicapped drivers will be notified in the race post.

For this race no one will be handicapped as the frontrunners are close together.


Race List =   IGOR
Server = UKGPL_8
IP Address = tba
Race date = 19-03-2013
Qualification Time   = ~20:45  UK time -> 30-45 min
Race Time = race starts at 21:30 UK time
Track = imola (http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=485)
Variant = 65F1 the 2.02 Release of the 65mod should be used
Damage Model = PRO
Race length = ~50 min -> 30 laps
RED ZONE = from race start to the exit of the Aque Minerali
Password = see above (#post_event_password)
Replay = you will get here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Replays/Archive/Season24/Pros/)


GLA


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: MagicArsouille on March 19, 2013, 10:14:03 AM +0000
HI :).................."The Pro Drivers will have a free car choice. Drivers will have to remain in that chassis for the rest of the season, they will only be allowed to swap chassis in exceptional circumstances and only with the approval of the moderator."
..... well....Can I take another chassis for Imola.....some parts from Japan are still not delivery !!! ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: Cookie on March 19, 2013, 12:35:59 PM +0000
Sorry Tristan, no change for tonight!
I know, you are a driver in a self handicapping car!

For the next race there could be a car change possible for all drivers with some limitations depending on Championship ranking!

The idea is, to not have the best drivers in the best cars.
TBH, I expected all Pro drivers to do some fair self handicapping to avoid a moderators handicap.
(The current 100+ points drivers should not take a Lotus or Ferrari, the 140+ should not take a Lotus or Ferrari or Brabham BT11...)

Please make your comment


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: Rainier on March 19, 2013, 01:13:57 PM +0000
I am sure Tristan would have choosen the Cooper or the BT7  ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: MagicArsouille on March 19, 2013, 04:16:22 PM +0000
lol Dave :))........no, it's ok, no problémo I keep Mama San..... :-*


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: Ronniepeterson on March 19, 2013, 05:12:25 PM +0000
TBH, I expected all Pro drivers to do some fair self handicapping to avoid a moderators handicap.
(The current 100+ points drivers should not take a Lotus or Ferrari, the 140+ should not take a Lotus or Ferrari or Brabham BT11...)

The original thread for the Pro championship did have a comment to this effect. Either people chose to ignore it, entirely up to them. Or more likely it got lost when we merged with the intermediates.

The new registration thread gave all drivers a free choice of any car so my vote is to stay as we are rather than move people out of and/or into faster cars. But I will be happy to go along with whatever the mods decide.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: Hristo Itchov on March 19, 2013, 05:15:08 PM +0000
Sorry Tristan, no change for tonight!
I know, you are a driver in a self handicapping car!

For the next race there could be a car change possible for all drivers with some limitations depending on Championship ranking!

The idea is, to not have the best drivers in the best cars.
TBH, I expected all Pro drivers to do some fair self handicapping to avoid a moderators handicap.
(The current 100+ points drivers should not take a Lotus or Ferrari, the 140+ should not take a Lotus or Ferrari or Brabham BT11...)

Please make your comment


How could we expect the merge with Int at the beginning of the season so we would handicap ourselves? I don't see how it was a valid point considering it was a free car choice. Either we're all handicapped or we're not.

Or are you saying we should handicap ourselves for the next race? I'm not really understanding what you're saying.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: Cookie on March 19, 2013, 07:01:57 PM +0000

Or are you saying we should handicap ourselves for the next race? I'm not really understanding what you're saying.


Yes, I expected all Pro drivers to do a fair self handicapping to avoid a moderators handicap.
It was foreseeable that if you choose a Lotus you will be handicapped sooner or later...

The idea was that experienced pro drivers do have some feeling for fair competition.
Most drivers understood the intention...

I hope if you understand it right there will be no further moderators action be necessary, as I hate handicapping.

Quote from:  Al Heller
Not being the most observant among us, it's only just dawned on me that all the fastest guys are in the Lotus (with the exception of Tris) & all the not-so-fast runners are in the slower chassis. No complaints about that as we have free chassis choice, but it does at least help explain to my tiny brain why the gap to the frontrunners had opened up so much this season!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: BadBlood on March 19, 2013, 07:14:09 PM +0000
The problem is the merge with the Ints as Hristo has pointed out. Ideally this series would have no handicapping and maybe we can do that next season. You can all have a say in the Mid Season review which will be up at the end of the week.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: DLogan on March 19, 2013, 07:21:25 PM +0000
...The current 100+ points drivers should not take a Lotus or Ferrari, the 140+ should not take a Lotus or Ferrari or Brabham BT11...

Ok, now I'm confused. From the championship standings page:

"...drivers have a free chassis choice. Once a chassis is selected, a driver should stay in that chassis for ALL races..."

"...The top three drivers may, at the moderator's discretion, be limited to a slower car..."

From this very page:

"...Pro Drivers will have a free car choice. Drivers will have to remain in that chassis for the rest of the season, they will only be allowed to swap chassis in exceptional circumstances..."

Those are the conditions under which I (and everyone else) registered for this season. This is, IMO, a mid-season rule change, and no, sir, I don't like it.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: Artiglietti on March 19, 2013, 07:52:29 PM +0000
Lol, guys, the problem is precisely that. If you have a loose framework which is going to be handled in all freedom by the moderators through their own, unquestionable discretion, what you effectively end up with is rules that do change throughout the season. In some cases probably more than once. Only one driver handicapped? Two drivers? With which car? From race 3, 4, 5? With a 10, 20, 30 points lead? With the handicap levied for one race on a particularly fast track? Or only for the last race? Or for the last two races? How could you not see this was always going to open up a can of warms  ;D?

As for self-handicapping, unless there is an agreement before the start of the championship, it is just naive to think it is going to happen, as it needs all the fast drivers to actually apply it. If two of them pick a slower chassis, and the third one doesnt, they are effectively screwed for the rest of the championship, so everyone (erm..almost) will play it safe..

I also would like to point out that assuming that keeping the championship alive till the end will keep the numbers of race entrants up could be a bit of a simplistic idea. Most people are cut off the championship battle way before the last races anyway (and funnily enough they will usually have been the ones completely unaffected by any handicapping process). Much more off putting could well be unclear rules that lead to endless bickering and discussions in the forums, with a sense of unfairness lingering over the final results. The end of the once popular Porsche Cup springs to mind...



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: maddog on March 19, 2013, 08:27:24 PM +0000
Give that man a podium - that was perfectly put Art.  Moderating staff have enough racing experience between them, to come up with a sensible fixed set of rules, that will last all Season.    :euro:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: DLogan on March 19, 2013, 10:03:09 PM +0000
Well, at least Tosa lap 1 wasn't my fault (entering it backwards is not a good plan).

Chased down a couple, but, "Trying too hard!", cried that little lump in the Lotus, "let my camshaft be free of its bonds!"  :(


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: MagicArsouille on March 19, 2013, 10:18:37 PM +0000
....welll....exellent start from the 4th on the grid to the lead on turn one ;D......5 laps in front and blow up the engine ???.......gn all  :-*


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: EvilClive on March 19, 2013, 10:23:26 PM +0000
 Grats to whoever took the podium places...... :-\

Only 3 laps to go and easing off in 1st place with a comfortable lead, car handling perfectly, short shifting to save the engine, plenty of fuel and......... YES! you guessed it   DISCO AGAIN!!!! jeez this is getting on my *******



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: Cookie on March 19, 2013, 11:06:16 PM +0000
First of all sorry Clive, you deserved the win! :o

Grats to Florian! :thumbup1:

____________________________________________________________________

I DON'T WANT TO CHANGE ANY RULES!!!

(My words were in subjunctiv!)
My intention was to have a discussion, if it is possible to make some pro drivers more contented as there have been some posts...


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: BadBlood on March 20, 2013, 12:51:40 AM +0000
Guys, just drop Cookie a PM. He just wants to maintain a competitive championship. As it stands top 3 might get a handicap. The 'might' is to allow discretion so that races at, say, Spa aren't massively unfair. If you would like a change Cookie would like to hear.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: NHance on March 20, 2013, 02:41:30 PM +0000
Good & bad wasn't it. Deal with the bad first. Spin on lap 1 was I suppose not as bad as bumping someone directly but it still messed up the race for some & for that I sincerely appologise.
The good was a qually place(not time) I would never have dreamed of, AND!!, I was fastest Honda so move over Magic ;). The 5th race of the season & this is the first time I have passed anyone in open racing & also the first time I have finished the race not being last of those still running & completely out of touch with the rest of the field. Some encouraging signs there after a dismal season so far. Tried a celebration doughnut at the end & finished up in the fence ;D.
Clive is having a bad time & this one was the worst so sympathy there. Secondly, my mate Clutch from back of grid to 4th was brilliant.
I didn't go public with my thoughts on the rules under which we race after the first race I PM'd Cookie but this time I will. Don't make any concessions for me who chose to come into Pro racing when Inters folded. I had the choice & signed up to No shiftR, one car for the season, & handicapping if the mods want to do it. No handicap for anyone all season is ok by me. Must say though when I was in group 3 in novices I took it as a compliment. Extra satisfaction if you are ahead of the faster cars.
Norm H


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: JonnyO on March 20, 2013, 03:37:19 PM +0000
  My race was very short.

   The crash on the 1st lap was a lack of luck I think, and I was the "upside down", but that's okay!

   I was happy with my performance in Qualy, every day get easier with the wheel....bye bye Keyboard. :'(


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: Ronniepeterson on March 20, 2013, 04:12:05 PM +0000
Grats to Flo, Axl and Andreas; commiserations to Clive.

Got a great start making up a few places on people asleep when the flag dropped but it came to nothing with the disturbance at turn 1/lap 1. At least I was in one piece so I set about trying to make some places up. Spotted Clutch ahead and eventually made a pass. Next up was Andreas. Slowly caught him and then had a really good battle swapping positions several times. It was building to a great finish when I overcooked it and ran slightly wide ending up in the wire fence. I thought I was okay to hang onto 5th but my engine was damaged and sure enough I became a sitting duck for the rest of the field. Still good fun. See you all at Rouen (not one of my favourite tracks).


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: Flow on March 20, 2013, 06:33:33 PM +0000

Yes, I expected all Pro drivers to do a fair self handicapping to avoid a moderators handicap.
It was foreseeable that if you choose a Lotus you will be handicapped sooner or later...

The idea was that experienced pro drivers do have some feeling for fair competition.
Most drivers understood the intention...

I hope if you understand it right there will be no further moderators action be necessary, as I hate handicapping.


Where is the difference if I handicap myself or if its done by a moderator? I hate handicapping myself too. And I prefer not to if I am not forced into it. What if I do bad the next 3 races? I prefer to have a competitive car at least for the last two then. Because of this I prefer to get a handycap by a moderator race by race.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: Hristo Itchov on March 20, 2013, 09:56:39 PM +0000
Moderators deciding during the season who should and who shouldn't be handicapped, thus affecting the championship at any moment, is a complete nonsense to me. So you could be leading the championship and fighting with others for it, and suddenly a moderator decides one of those drivers should get the short end of the stick and kill his chances for victory. And don't tell me it won't happen, because it already did when I was given the Cooper for Mexico for no obvious reason apart from Axel's inability to take every factor into an account and instead focusing only on single lap times.

Right now, after each race, you have no idea what car you would be put in for the next race and how to plan your championship attack, because you never know what the moderator might decide next. Talk about inconsistent rules...


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: AnGex on March 21, 2013, 05:44:32 PM +0000
...commiserations to Clive.

... Next up was Andreas. Slowly caught him and then had a really good battle swapping positions several times. It was building to a great finish when I overcooked it and ran slightly wide ending up in the wire fence...

Yeah mate! That was a really great battle. Enjoyed it very much. Sorry for your overcooking and off in Tamburello. In pre race practise I learned again 1 reason why I hate that corner.  :-[ But this time I managed to go trough unhurt. So finally it came to my advantage.  :)
Someone recognized that we had a all German podium?    :D
Cu soon!



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: Cookie on March 22, 2013, 12:11:31 PM +0000
Moderators deciding during the season who should and who shouldn't be handicapped, thus affecting the championship at any moment, is a complete nonsense to me.

So don't take part in a series where the rules say in every race post:

The specific division rules for the Pro Trophy have changed as the INT division has been suspended.
Handicapping will be introduced from race three onwards and will only affect the top three drivers in the championship. The top three drivers may, at the moderator's discretion, be limited to a slower car. If handicapping is in action then handicapped drivers will be notified in the race post.


STOP personal defamation!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 24 (2013) Professionals Trophy (65) - Imola - Mar 19
Post by: Cookie on April 04, 2013, 05:35:40 PM +0100
Moderation published