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Season 24 Historic Trophy (66) - Round 8 - Dijon-Prenois

For round 8 we return to France, this time to Dijon-Prenois.  Plans for the circuit were (quite appropriately) drawn up in 1967 but it took over 4 years to build and the first race wasn't held until 1972.  The first Formula 1 race was in 1974 but the circuit was a little too short and the race was marred by congestion as the leaders tried to lap the backmarkers.  So the circuit was revised to include a new section incorporating the Parabolique.  It is this revised circuit that we will be racing on today.  The circuit is probably best known as the location for one of the most exciting battles for second place ever seen in Formula 1.  The battle between Gilles Villeneuve (Ferrari) and René Arnoux (Renault) was played out over the last 5 laps with Villeneuve taking the honours by less than half a second.  The race was won by Arnoux's team mate Jean-Pierre Jabouille.  It was the first victory for Renault and the first victory for a turbocharged car.

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_T7_2
IP address = 62.149.202.168
Race date = 07-05-2013
Race Time = race starts at 21:30 UK time
Qualifying Time = Between 30 and 60 minutes, starting no later than 21:00 UK time
Track = Dijon-Prenois (dijonp81)
Variant = mod66
Damage Model = PRO
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 37)
Password: see above
Replays Available here
Driver lists and token rules can be found on the championship standings page
The track can be downloaded from : here
The full time drivers can start to practice as soon as the server is available.  Reserve drivers can also join as soon as the server becomes available but must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes; this will allow any remaining full timers to join.  If there is enough space on the grid, the reserve drivers will be able to rejoin when there are 30 mins of qualifying left. 

Please restrict chat to pit messages including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

The race will be run under PRO rules so no resets are allowed.


For THIS RACE, 3 liters car must be selected

Al HELLER will be restricted to Group I cars (McLaren M2B or Eagle T1G)
Tristan BOT and Hristo ITCHOV will be restricted to Group I and II cars (BRM P83 or Lotus 43 BRM)

all other drivers have free choice.

Moderating The red zone will be fully moderated for lap 1 only. For this event the red zone will be from the start line to the exit of Parabolique. Other moderation will be on reported incidents only.  However any incidents that occur in the red zone that are not reported by the drivers will be reported by the moderator.  This will allow all affected drivers the opportunity to present their case before the incident is moderated.  This should ensure there are no surprises when the moderator's report is published and hence appeals will be less likely.  If you haven't received a PM about an incident before the link below the results table is removed, you can be sure that you will not appear in the moderator's report.

hi

it was normaly 2 liters for this one ! ...no ?

Previous race was 2L, so this one must be 3L.

ok thx

No race for me tonight fellas. Going to be away for 3 weeks so got to pack ::)
Have fun.

Not on Dad's taxi duties tonight so I can make this one  ;D

Just checked the registration thread (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=11400.msg204203#msg204203) and there it states 2L.  Probably best to go with the race announcement, we should have noticed this discrepancy earlier.

Computer said No!  ???

Nice race until the fuel tank sprang a leak, I mean, it could not it be me that calculate the gallons wrong :o

Göran

Brilliant race for me.  Really enjoyed it, close clean racing all the way.  Had a decent setup so managed to battle with a few drivers who are normally miles ahead.  At one  point I was even fighting with Attilio (yes it was me in the Ferrari - couldn't reply in chat server was shut down) but I made a mistake and then he was away in the distance.  Good fights with Al and Goran but the fiercest battle was with David Rainier (again!!!).  Good racing David, I had to improve my braking into T1 to compete with you there.  At one point I saw you lock up in my mirrors so I kept wide but you made the corner anyway.  You have got the braking into that corner mastered ;)

LOL GJ ;)

Yes, I saw you going wide.
Thanks for that, you really deserved this 4th place for your quickness + your intelligence.

With you and Al, it was one of my funniest GPL battle. 

bit of an odd one for me.

was not very quick here and struggled to improve.

must say though chaps.. great start and lap one. seemed very gentlemanly to me from where i was... at the back :0)

was just running around aimlessly at the rear of the pack for lap after lap and just waiting for the fast boys to catch me up.

this was something that happened quicker than even I expected. :0)

I think if ones in contention or mixed up in the fun with others it has the makings of a decent race track, although it seems a bit slippery to me. it was giving my two nearside tyres a real bashing too.. I think they melted

so after another 6 or 7 laps of utter boredom with just small moments of self induced mistakes to wake me up, I decided as I had never tried self flagellation before... that this must be what it actually feels like so I pulled over and decided to do the kind thing to me and everyone else and I did the only decent thing i could think of and hit the "retire" button.

Paul V.

 

As I suspected, this track, which I frankly dislike in the 67s, proved much more fun to drive with the mods, as you can start driving rather than tip-toeing around trying to keep your tyres alive..

On the straight at the end of L1 I was watching in horror Hristo's Lotus making massive ground in my slipstream. So, I decided I better nail my braking point perfectly if I wanted to stay ahead. Which I brilliantly did. Unfortunately it was the wrong brake marker, the one I used as reference for the start  ;D ;D. So, I serenely sailed off the track heading toward the barriers at stupid speed, sure that was going to be the end of my race. Nope, car emerged perfect, I was even collected on my way out the gravel by a fellow, sympathizing driver, but it was one of those days when the GPL Gods are looking favourably upon you, and you can pretty much do whatever you want with your car. So, I decided to rape the engine of my BT19 for the rest of the race, obviously, with no consequences whatsoever. I love this game.

I had some very nice battles with many people on my way up, pretty much all made interesting by the substantial lack of straight line speed of my machinery. I thought I got my gearing wrong, but after watching the replay I have to say my top speeds in and out of the tow are in line with other BT19ers, so I must assume this thing is just slow on the straights. Anyway, thank you guys, a lot of fun and very good driving.

I must apologize to Andreas, checked the replay in hope my tap was due to warp. I must say theres clean air between the cars, still I probably reached your collision box. So, my wrong, it is the second time in a few races, will try and be more careful next time  ::).

I also tangled with Tristan during our battle for third. He went wide at Parabolique (?), and I stuck my nose on the inside, hoping to disturb him at the next lefthander at the top of the hill. He came back for the apex though, and ended up spinning after hitting me. I would put it down to a racing incident really, but feel free to report it Tristan, if you feel wrong done.

Thx guys, see you at the next one.

I confess that after Sunday's 67 race and my inability to drive this circuit I spent an hour on Monday doing some serious practice around this nightmare.
Maybe I took the easy option for the 66's and chose the 3ltr Brabham, but I figured that I wanted to fight the circuit and not the car. ;)
When I started matching my best 67 times in a 65 car, I figured that I was beginning to tame the track.

I arrived a little late for qually and some fast lap times were already being posted by the usual suspects, so my first runs were on race fuel
to settle in were OK. Then I halved the fuel load and tried a quicker lap and was amazed to get 2nd behind a very rapid Art  ;D. Hristo eventually appeared  ( as expected!!) to push me down to 3rd, but still, I was quite happy with that.

From the start I stayed wide at T1 just to avoid chopping across anyone and getting nerfed. Tristan took the opportunity to squirt through the inside and take 3rd place. Although I was easily keeping pace with Tristan on cold tyres, he seemed to be a little unstable in his tail heavy Lotus. It looked like an accident waiting to happen, but when it did it caught me by surprise as he squirted sideways across the track fighting for control and I clipped his rear wheel as I tried to avoid him.
That promoted me back to 3rd with a clear gap ahead and behind, so I concentrated on a few smooth laps as the tyres came up to working temperature. I had learned that careful use of the right foot and avoiding spinning up the rear wheels was crucial to consistant lap times during my offline practice ( remember this for later!!  ::)) and slowly but surely I was closing on the leading pair of Hristo and Art.
Art was off at T1 and Hristo was closer... a moments contact? .. but either way I was 2nd and the gap to Hristo was halved. A few laps just pushing gently and the gap steadily reduced until I was on his tail.
The problem with Dijon is that there is really only one passing place if the guy in front holds a good line and makes no mistakes. This requires a 5th gear that will give you the advantage with slipstream down the S/F straight and outbrake your opponent into T1...simples ?? But if you have forgotten to raise 5th gear high enough your car will run out of revs as you cross the start line and there is no way you can make the pass. What sort of dipstick would make such a dumb setup mistake??  :whistling:
So, option "B" ..wait for a mistake was adopted. I waited and harassed, and waited and harassed and waited and pushed and prodded for lap after lap. It was evident that I was quicker through the twisty bits but just lost out out of the final turn and on top speed.
Hristo was fighting the tail heavy Lotus and had several sideways moments where I thought "he's going off"...but he always managed to catch the slide. Until he finally made the mistake I had been hoping for out of the hairpin and I was through...woohoo.!!!

At this point my brain decided that I should forget how to drive the Brabham. Thus far in the race I was easily able to lap in the low 1:25's whilst chasing Hristo...now? I was suddenly struggling to hit braking points and turn in points.

I had hoped that my pace around the infield would hold the gap I now had over Hristo...I knew he would be driving at his max to get back on terms, he always does lol. For a few laps the gap stayed constant despite my poor driving. Then I lost a little passing a backmarker and in an attempt to regain that time I started over driving the car ( remember what I said earlier??). I simply gave away time  lap after lap until I had cooked the rear left tyre and allowed Hristo to catch and pass me. But with 5 laps still to go I felt I could still maybe sneak the win.
I pushed hard, instead of smooth, and by the last lap had made little impression on Hristo's 200 mtr lead. Then I totally missed a braking point with just 1/4 of the last lap to go and stuffed the car into the armco, ripping off a rear wheel..............race over  :-\
Don't ask what I said when that happened, it ain't pretty.

Grats to Hristo for a great race and to all of those who finished.

That was such a hard race! I knew the Lotus is difficult to handle, but the advantage of having the BRM engine is not one to ignore, plus I had some previous setups for the car, so I opted to take it and see how it goes. It was tricky at first, I haven't driven GPL for more than a week and had to re-adapt to it after my regular runs of modern F1 in rFactor leagues. The setup was developing well and I felt I could challenge for pole, but then I was surprised the session was suddenly over, giving me no chance to test my latest changes to the car. I decided to risk it though and enter the race with those changes, hoping they would work well.

I spent too much time in 1st gear at the start, thinking I was wheelspinning when I was actually just revving it up without accelerating anymore, so that meant I had to settle for 2nd. The Brabhams are obviously very quick through the corners, especially the slower ones, but I knew that with this mod's great slipstream and my BRM power, it won't be a problem to catch back, even if I was to drop some 100 meters behind Art.

I was surprised how fast I was catching him on the s/f straight at the start of lap 2, but decided it's too early to risk with an attack, so I just lifted up earlier, just in case he would brake earlier than me. It happened too many times this season and I didn't want another such situation to occur. Art was in no rush to brake though, even when I was already braking hard for the corner. He just sailed straight off and I thought "what the heck is he doing?!" and was worried he may bounce back after the impact and hit me, but that didn't happen and I just took over the lead.

After that, I really didn't feel very comfortable with the handling, so I took it easy, seeing that nobody was in my mirrors at the time. I pretty much realized what I have set up wrong, but the changes would have to wait for after the race and so I had to deal with it by applying some compensatory driving techniques, which included short-shifting due to massive wheelspin, huge amount of opposite lock due to sudden loss of grip at the rear now and then, as well as varying my brake and throttle application under braking as the front had no clear idea where it wanted to go.

All of that allowed Evil to gradually close in and once he had my slipstream, he was quickly back into contention, going very fast through the twisty bits, with the exception of the last 2-3 corners where I would pull away. This continued for quite a while, I had some frightening moments when I almost lost the car, but somehow it didn't spin off. I also had to open the inside a few times because Evil could brake very late and he made fake attacks in my blind spots, so I wasn't sure how close he was exactly.

After quite a number of laps I thought that either he was lifting up and waiting for the final part of the race to make his attack, or that it is what it looks like and I was pretty much safe as long as I wasn't making bigger mistakes. This gave me a false sense of security and I was caught by surprise when the car suddenly slid off to the right on the exit of the uphill hairpin. Fortunately I hit the armco with just the nose of the car, so there was no suspension damage or very minimal anyway, then the car spun once and faced the right way. All this dropped me to about 5-6 seconds behind Evil, with some 9-10 laps to go. I knew it was going to be very hard to catch him, but perhaps he would be slower without slipstream and my new found motivation would give me some extra speed.

I pushed very hard, taking risks everywhere, but was also helped by the fact that with little fuel, the car was much better to drive. Initially the gap remained at 5 seconds, but I could visually see that I was slightly faster and with the aid of one backmarker's slipstream, I instantly took another second off Evil's lead. After that, with a string of 24s, I managed to close in and pass him when he made a mistake, then pull away before the final 2 laps. I was hoping for a battle, so that was a bit of an anticlimax, but then I had to focus on a group of 3 cars that I was closing in on in the last lap. I decided against attacking the closest car in that group and instead let them fight it out for another lap.

Finally the race was over and I was surprised to see Art emerging into 2nd and Evil having retired because of an accident. Tough luck, Evil, you ran a strong race up to this point! Grats to Art and the rest who finished!

Fully accepted Art. I had the feeling that I was braking early and you were late and surprised with my early breaking point. But anyway in the end it did not change anything. Had to much errors on my own. So I could not ask for more.  :)

So long
Andreas

Great report Hristo , I'm sure Jenks would have been proud if he had written it himself  :)

Registration thread still has 2L & 3L designations reversed, for here and at Rouen  A good idea to reverse them, before someone's practice efforts get Rouen'd!  :(  "Hey, I don't get paid for this stuff !" 

hmmm. I can see why ::)  ;)

hi :)

    well.....   ........... "From the start I stayed wide at T1 just to avoid chopping across anyone and getting nerfed. Tristan took the opportunity to squirt through the inside and take 3rd place. Although I was easily keeping pace with Tristan on cold tyres, he seemed to be a little unstable in his tail heavy Lotus. It looked like an accident waiting to happen, but when it did it caught me by surprise as he squirted sideways across the track fighting for control and I clipped his rear wheel as I tried to avoid him."...........

...first of all, as everybody knows, during the firsts laps with cold tires and full tank, the car is not allways at the top......and spinn can happen, so when you follow closely someone during those laps you have to be double carrefull ....and when you hit me , we can't realy said that you are trying to avoid me ( you are at 6000 rpm when you toutch me !).....you said I'm unstable ( and you right here ) ...you said it looked like an accident waiting to happen .....and ( but ) you are not carrefull ...???? why don't wait for the straight line with the repco to try to overtake ??

.....same with Arti who was clearely just faster than me ....but it's sometime not enought to overpass specialy on a track like Dijon where Ithink there is only one way to overpass , at the breaking point of the straight line, but it was a good fight whith Arti and Iknow it is frustration when you can't overpass and you know you are faster but this is racing........ it's sade that in the end , it's finish by a rear toutch who close the fight .....

Tristan, you had gone wide at that corner, you should have kept that wide line going up the hill. Instead you decided to go for the apex anyway, and found my car was already there  ;). It is hardly a rear bump as you put it, and I think with a bit more caution you could have kept your place till the end. It was a good fight until then though. I have submitted my report in answer to yours, so will see you at the next one.

Apologies again for the contact on Lap 1 Tristan.

apologies accepted Evil ....

....Arti, yes Iwas wide at the corner but I can't see you anyway ! ^^, 'cause you are still behind me and in the dead angle....and when I go logicaly to the apex you touch my right rear wheel with your left front wheel ...it's not to me to be carrefull here, it's up to you who are behind me....I can't avoid somebody that I can't see, but you can see everything .....
     ...personaly I 'm very very carefull in a sutch situation, and I prefer go out of track  instade to put a rear bump, and this for 3 reasons ;1/ I realy don't want to kill the race of someone....
                                        2/ I prefer finish just behind after a good fight than finish in front alone.....
                                        3/ ....and anyway I am in fault if I toutch the rear of the guy in front with my noze or my front whels ...... ;)

I am usually very respectful of others, glad to know you are so attentive yourself, Tristan  ;). Considering how much space you are leaving them with on the track is part of that respectful driving though...

In general, if you are waiting to see people before you decide to leave space, it is likely you are going to have many accidents at this game. In Solitude I left space in both the corners I managed to race even if I could not see you, admittedly that killed my race  ;D, but it is also what you should be doing (probably). Once you go wide into a corner with someone so close behind you, you should consider the option they might well be somewhere alongside you before you decide to come back toward the apex; there was also some substantial warping involved, exactly as in the last race, and that is always a threat to be taken into account.

Anyway the matter is on to the Mods, so we can wait for what they say and take it from there. See you tonight, I suppose  :)

Yoo Arti.....in solitude , I don't toutch you... :angel:..and in Dijon we are not side by side , you are still behind me  when you toutch me ... :-*...right ?..........        .....but you right , let's the mods decide........

Sorry for the mistake, now I propose to run Rouen with the 2 liters and then Monsanto with the 3 liters !
 

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