SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL Season 24 65 Novices Trophy
Race 9 Watkins Glen

Welcome back for the ninth round in the Season 24 Novices Trophy. We are at the sharp end of the season and we leave Europe for good (at least until Season 25!)

Across the 'pond' to Watkins Glen in upstate New York. The first Watkins Glen Grand Prix took place in 1948 on a 6.6-mile (10.6 km) course over local public roads. For the first few years, the races passed through the heart of the town with spectators lining the sidewalks, but after a car left the road in the 1952 race, killing one spectator and injuring several others, the race was moved to a new location on a wooded hilltop southwest of town. The original 6.6-mile (10.6 km) course was used from 1948-1952 and is modelled as 'Watkins 1948' in the track database.
 
The first permanent course was constructed on 550 acres, overlapping part of the previous street course. It was designed by Bill Milliken, and engineering professors from Cornell University. The layout measured 2.35-mile (3.78 km). This course was used from 1956-1970 and is the layout we use.

The United States Grand Prix here quickly became an autumnal tradition as huge crowds of knowledgeable racing fans flocked to 'The Glen' each year amid the spectacular autumn colors of the region. The race was also among the most popular on the global Grand Prix calendar with the teams and drivers because its starting and prize money often exceeded those of the other races combined. The race received the Grand Prix Drivers' Association award for the best organized and best staged GP of the season in 1965, 1970, and 1972.

One fixture of the USGP at The Glen was the starter for the races, Richard Norman "Tex" Hopkins. Wearing a lavender suit, clenching a big cigar in his mouth, and giving the job everything he had, Hopkins was the most recognizable starter in Grand Prix racing. Once the cars had taken their places, Hopkins strode across the front of the grid with his back to the field, turned, and jumped into the air while waving the national flag to start the race. At the finish, he would meet the winner in similar fashion, this time waving the checkered flag as the car crossed the line.

The course is well known and as long as we are patient through the complex from the start and are careful at the bottom of the back straight we will be OK. If drivers are not patient, there WILL be crashes. The first lap will be fully moderated within the red zone. The red zone will extend to the whole of the first lap.

Please check the Season 24 pages for details (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=386&theme=6) regarding rules and the Novices Trophy (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=393&theme=6) pages in particular.

HANDICAPPING will be applied to any drivers in the top three who are within 20 points of the leader.

Johnny P is again limited to the BT7
Dave Curtis is asked to limit himself to the BT7 or Cooper
RogUK has the choice of BT7, Cooper or Honda

Race List	IGOR
Server	UKGPL_3
IP Address	ping ukgpl3.dyndns.org
Race date	28-05-2013
Qualification Time	~20:45  UK time (minimum of 30 mins)
Race Time	race starts at 21:30 UK time
Track	Watkins Glen (Papy)
Variant	65F1 the 2.02 Release of the 65mod should be used
Damage Model	INT
Race length	33 laps
RED ZONE	Start of Lap 1 to the exit of the first hairpin
Password	see above (#post_event_password)
Replay	available after the race here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Replays/Archive/Season24/Novices/)

Qualifying may start before 9pm, if so, Reserve drivers should leave the server when 35 minutes of qualifying remains and only rejoin when 30 minutes of qualifying is left. This is to ensure that Full Time drivers get priority in joining.

Please restrict chat to pit messages if necessary, and this includes the end of the race, until all running drivers have completed the necessary laps.

The Novice races are run under Int Long rules and all incidents in the red zone on Lap 1, at least, will be moderated. For this race, the red zone extends to the whole of Lap 1. There is no limit on the amount of resets but EACH Shift/R MUST be followed by a Stop n Go.

65 Patch: The 2.02 Release of the 65mod can and should be used. You need a working installation of the 65 mod to install the 2.02 Update. All the 65 Mod files can be found here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Mods/1965)

Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=393&theme=6)

Went practising yesterday and was super pleased with how much better I was than in Season 21 when we last raced here... checked where I would have qualified... front row perhaps?

Errrr. No. 12th :(

Still, 1:10.65 with a 1:11.2 average over a long run (20 laps) is a big improvement for me. How are you guys doing?

I can't match that- low 1.12's with a very rare high 1.11 for me. Difficult to setup without melting my front left tyre.

Only been here a couple of times in a '65  (so last season & Santa vs. Elves),  so only tried a couple of cars.    Shame, after last time out - the Honda seems ok!   I'll be visiting the Internet setup repository at some point for Cooper/BT7 spanner-work.

Then during the race,  I'll undoubtably be visiting some (or should I say *those*) bales...!

Sandbagger... ;)


Track database is still down unfortunately :(

You can get Steve Cloyds setups on GPLRank -> world records  ;)

I use his BT11 setup with fine tire temps...

I have some excellent BT7 setups in my setup pack.

Shhh you two, I was trying to sound sympathetic whilst simultaneously putting the skids under their challenge...  ;D

 :oops:

No sandbagging- they are my true times. Not sure where I'm loosing out but I think I'll improve with a good tow ;)

had 5-6 laps in the 33.

with the default setup and race fuel doing low 1.12's.

NS tyres gettign hot and gearing far too high at present.

a few mods to the setup will help but seems OK so far.  does make a nice change knowing the track well.

Paul V.

Don't ever use the default setups...

Happy to share set-ups (designed with the Novice in mind) Lotus, BT11, BT7 or Cooper. If required send me a PM with an e-mail address.
I can hit a 1.10.xx in the BT11 (occasionally).

The only one I have is for the Honda.

Ran three long stints on race fuel, 35 laps, 16 laps, and 17 laps. Averaged 1:12.1, 1:11.8 and 1:11.9 but fairly inconsistent within those so 1:10.8 was the best and 1:12.9 the worst. usually early 1:12's or high 1:11's. That was not counting the 1:18 and 1:21 I did when I had a spin but that would have added 0.35 - 0.5 sec to the average laptime. Still a lot better than last time out and I am hoping for a decent race BUT these are on a solo track with nobody biffing me off...

One thing I did find - definitely need to brake nice and early for better lap times - especially into the last corner.

You are bang on about the last turn Paul I find it probably the trickiest turn on the circuit. I tried some changes to my setup but my front left is still getting really hot after about 5 laps. I need to add a load of negative camber but that makes the car pull to one side- I've stiffened the corner a little but I think the answer is to hug the inside of the banked turn and not run too wide.

Definitely don't run wide. I have done my fastest laps when I brake as soon as I am straight for the last turn and the car pulls round naturally without any steering input, it almost feels like I slow to walking pace but it is quicker...

I'd recommend having a race with the AI - it is quite hard to follow closely and find passing places. Getting a tow down the back straight is fine but making it stick is quite another thing...

After a 17 lap race with the AI my overheating tyre issue is manageable. I squeezed into the 1.11"s about 6 times with 1.11.7 being my best- that must be my limit with the bt7.

I might be able to make this one....machines up and running now,and stable. Trying the shifter out for the first time since I've had the thing....(over 2 years)   :eek:
Down into the low 12's in a BT11, shifter and relatively benign setup included. Might use the H-thingy in the race. Thought I'd give you all a heads up.... :o
My all time best here is 1:09.9x in a L33. Cant see me toppling that in a hurry.

I would like to endorse Badbloods words of wisdom for the race at the glen- the start is quite twisty and the big bend will throw you into the bails if you enter to quickly. Better to lose a few places than be upside down- just my opinion.

In fact, if we all slow up for the first few corners nobody will lose a place ;)

(Race Report Newsflash: "As the Novices start the race carefully, Badblood makes a blistering start and has an 800 yard lead by the Big Bend  ;D)

As suggested by BB I had an offline race with the AI. I was still carp.

. . . . . .  . It's the fishtailing that does it.  ;D

I bet I was carpier hmmm something fishy going on

 ;D

Boggy

LOL

Well that didn't quite work out.

Second on the grid and super confident in the car.

Blew the engine on the line and had to start dead last. Caught Tony up and managed to spin off at the last turn which hadn't happened in about 120 laps of practice :( Then once I got past Tony (who was pretty helpful caught Ross and Johnny. Johnny was over handicapped here (my apologies for that JP) and as I went past I completely lost the car... bounced all over the place and don't know how JP avoided me! Caught him again and passed (he helped...) and set off after Ross, Paul and Dave. Took 12 laps to catch them and set a really fast first three sectors and then outbraked myself at the start of Sector 4. Nearly quit in frustration but kept going and found a luckless Dave coming out of the pits and then nearly caught Ross. Not sure what they had been up to...

Hoped to have a FL but FL had that  ;D

Well done Fabio, bit sad you didn't win as well. (Sorry Andy). WD to Andy, Rog and Fabio.

Took the chequered flag in front of tony crossed line just behind Andy so I suppose I was just 2 laps down so don't understand result and certainly wasn't last

most confusing

Boggy

In the race I started near the back and boom! The grid exploded in front of me- I tiptoed through and was away but aware that some fast chaps were behind somewhere. A few laps in someone spun at the last corner right in front of me and I T-boned them ...don't know who. A few laps later I saw BB approaching at speed and decided that I would let him go as he was far quicker and hope to grab his coat tails but I ended up on the wrong line and had a small excursion with no harm done. I watched BB on his voyage of discovery at the last turn but had quite enough time to manoeuvre around. He soon caught me again and disappeared into the distance. Prib showed a little gang about 20 seconds up the road which BB was closing on and my thoughts were that maybe a scuffle would slow them or produce a casualty. Both BB and Dave C seemed to have some issues but were still out of reach. I was pleased with my performance as my last 15 or so laps were all within .5 of each other. The car fealt really good but the times showed otherwise. Congratulations to the podium and also a round of applause for BB who very nearly got pole in qualifying.

Hi JohnnyP yep that was me you T-boned but totally my fault, put me on the roof and stop go put me out of the running. had a great setup and was pleased to get third fastest lap only a couple of tenths off fastest, so seem to be improving, just got to keep it on the black stuff and facing the right way. Still not sure about result,will watch replay as I definitely made it to the end and no disco
Congratulations to everyone who took part and especially to BB whose speed shifts in quali were worth watching

Cheers

Boggy

Server must have lost you. I'll take a look at the replay and amend the results accordingly.

Cheers Paul
Sorry to be a pain!! I know your time is precious, most appreciative

Cheers

Boggy

np, what I am here for.

Very fun race, indeed!

I like WG: I won my first UKGPL race there and I really aimed for a hat trick last night...

Grats to Andy that took advantage of my mistake at The Loop: I went too wide and I lost two postions to him and Rog.
I had no luck at all when I finally got close to Rog and to a lapped Honda and I went off the track at Big Bend.

Last lap I shaved 1/10 to my PB and I snatched the FL

Anyway the most exciting thing of last night was the competition with Paul for the pole position: you are really a fast novice guy then!! :thumbup1:

The worst thing? We were really few guys: where are all the Novs?!?

Grats to everybody raced and see you all in South Africa for the last race of the season

Cheers from a cold Italy :blink:

Surely you mean lacklustre?!


Actually, the qually session turned out to be rather exciting with some hundredths of a second difference at times.  By the end, 1-7 close enough to covered by a blanket etc,   with the next couple of chaps not that far behind.  Probably due to the short track,  but it provided a close grid - drat!

Come the start - hey what's this?  Who's left a big Honda laying around on the grid?  BIFF!   Sorry for the additional damage,  but it really wasn't of any use anyway by that point.

The race was then a case of trying to gain the time I lost on the straights round the not-so-straight bits.  Generally went ok,  but once the chasing pack was with me they were past & up the road.   Seemed to be wasting time in the later stages with inability to select the wanted gear multiple times round Big Bend.  Also a couple of surprising squirrelly turns round the loop - which had been fine in practice.
Unfortunately stuffed it in the bales on lap31 or so, hence the trip to the pits.  I was sure I could see BadBlood waving as he swept past in that rocket ship.


I had tried a handful of laps round here in the BT7,  but was even slower than in the Cooper.  Still - I won't be requiring either next time out... 


Cheers all,  congrats to the podium.
Dave.

Might have had a sneaky grin on my chops... ;)

Hi Fabio
I think the poor turn out is due to novices being put off by the speed of the top drivers. If you look at the points table you will see the drop off after the first few races. As discussed in the mid season discussion the sooner we get back to having an intermediate class the better.As for myself I'm just a glutton for punishment :helpsmilie:

Cheers

Boggy

Novs/Inters? It is an interesting one, Boggy, because although I have done a lot of these races I would still think my level is Novice - this is the first season that I have even threatened the podium and I practised pretty hard for this one but I think I will be back in the midfield for East London. Can't seem to get the hang of that track. How do we define a Novice or Inter and are we better having three fields of six/seven or two fields of ten/eleven but less evenly matched? Maybe we will get three grids of twenty plus, but I suspect not...

Novs/inters/pros
Maybe with 37 drivers registered this season with the 3 classes maybe grids of 10 to 12 could be achieved as drivers may find it more competitive with closer grids rather than turning up to be lapped race after race.
Food for thought for next season if a moderator is available?

Cheers

Boggy

AS I told BB in some recent pm chat, I've definately enjoyed my first GPL championship but from my perspective my race is cooked as soon as the fast guys come around to lap me. It's difficult to try to catch the guy in front of me whilst being watchfull of the lappers.
Looking forward to the next season already  :drool:

 Boggy

I will agree to disagree on the attendance of the novs, there has been tremendous improvement in the novs this season- look at the qualifying times here.. top 7 all within half a second- yourself included. Many of the drivers are of a similar standard where there have been different winners. This is a debate for another time but I think if all the drivers from the novs who are of similar pace could move up to the inters then there may not be too many novs.
I understand your point- I would not want to turn up each race to be lapped it's the same reason I won't move into Pro's. We race in the novs to gain experience and improve but I for one do not have the time to find the best setup or racing line nor the skill of the pro's but we do our best. I enjoy racing, there is a great bunch of racers in the novices right now and it can only get better as the chaps further back move towards the podium.

Regards

John

Come on, Johnny. You have to be blind not to see the wide range of ability within Novices that should normally form up 2 separate grids. Intermediate division didn't exist by chance, it was a necessity. Half a second at Watkins Glen is 1-2 seconds on other tracks, plus previous races and lap times in them serve as better evidence that there really should be 3 grids, even if it means fewer drivers per division.

Hristo you are not using my comment as a launch pad for a divisional rant. I'm sure this subject will arise soon enough.

I'm simply replying directly to what you said, it's not a rant. If you don't want the subject to be discussed then don't post about it, lol...

Johnny
This is only my point of view, obviously some will agree as some will disagree.
Hopefully this will be sorted out before next season, but surely any changes that encourage new drivers to join up and not be put off and leave after only a couple of races must be a good thing.
By the way Hristos comments are very poignant

Cheers

Boggy

I think I must be blind as Hristo says, the novices will always have a spectrum of abilities as some get better than others. It's been magnified this season because of the inters or lack of. Gpl is difficult it's why we like it so if you are new you may get lapped. I used to get lapped- I just put up with it until I got better.

no mod, all academic!  ???

Hi Johnny
My reply to Fabio was the concern of a poor turn out for the race, I was trying to put forward a reason for this and ways of attracting new drivers. Personally I don't mind running at the back as long as I see improvements as I progress through the season (my first full one).
See you all at East London and going by first practice, look forward to waving to the leaders as they cruise by :(

Cheers

Boggy

Of course it's because of the Inters merging with Novices and Pros. My point to you is that in many races this season, the lap times at the front in Novices were comparable with the lap times in Pros, which leaves the regular Novices without any real chance to compete for the top spots. Likewise with some Inters in Pros.

I don't disagree with that Hristo but the top novs ie those who sometimes match the back of the pro grid are many- maybe 6 or 8- would their removal mean a barren novice trophy? Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I would doubt that some early participants simply gave up because the races were quicker than they expected- my opinion.

On to EastLondon and I remember having a nightmare here in a fun race, this is a tricky circuit that I find difficult. A practice run last night was not inspiring.

That's the point though! The top Novices aren't really novices, they are Inter and Pro material. It just negates the purpose of a Novices division to have such fast drivers race in it. And it wasn't the back of the pros they were matching in some races, but the front! If it was just 1-2 drivers dominating Novices, it wouldn't be so bad. I mean, they would become champion and vice-champion, then move up a division, but with half the grid being so fast, it can't be called Novices anymore.

You can't really define a Novice in terms of speed alone though. I was 0.02 of pole with an untowed lap but in the race I averaged over 1:13. Take a look at my attempted overtakes of Tony and Johnny (who weren't resisting too hard!) if you want to see 'Novice'  ;D

But Paul if you take the opposite view then the top 4 or 5 who barely make a mistake can hardly be called Novice, by definition "A person new to or inexperienced in a field or situation:"

Bring back Inters for next season if a moderator can be found.

I watched your replay  ;D

Cheers

Boggy

Yep - barely make a mistake...that is the important part!

We will try very hard to run Inters next season.

Sorry Hristo my last comment was meant to start I do agree- apologies for the confusion.

Has anyone practised at East London yet?
What are decent sector times?
Cheers
Boggy

Hope to be back for East London, I've had my mother in law over for 2 and half months and now it's TT week here, so might not happen :)

Last time my mother in law visited I told the Mrs there was a special GPL series where you had to race a different track every night of the week.

I have been absent for the last few races through illness but I feel I would have been well outclassed here... I am finding the pace in this division quite scary.... 2 seasons ago I was winning races in the BT7... now I am midfield at best regardless of car!  :(

Question I've been meaning to ask after this race last week.

In the top right corner of my screen I noticed the letters L Q S . What is this?

Latency, Quality, Stupidity,

Bar 1 ( L ) measures the time it takes for a packet of data to get from your PC to the server and back again.  Low is good.
Bar 2 ( Q ) measures packet loss. iir full bar = 0 packet loss which is obviously good. Lost packets cause warpy crashes.
Bar 3 ( S ) measures your performance. Low is good. Driving mistakes will push the meter up. Trying to win a forum  debate  against Hristo will  cause the bar to max out resulting in instant ejection from the server. We call that the H Factor.

I have always assumed that it meant..

Lateral Quotient of Slide   ::) and I am still trying to get the red lines to the top, so that I can claim the special badge.  :shifty: :yes: :jumpjoy:

....but i could be mistaken Tony  ::)

 :lol:

I guess the forum needs an H bar.

We would never bar H  ;D

 . . . . I reckon he's already a Roots 1.6 bar. :o

Mod published

Read & Understood.  It's not in my nature to get involved in contact off the line in GPL, or any sim-racing event.

Hi Paul
Have seen the mod is published,still shown as having disco'ed, some of us need all the points we can get.

Cheers

Boggy

thx for your job Paul

Please give him the points

Cheers Tony
But will wait for Paul to make a decission.

Him

Sorry Boggy. I forgot all about that - I'll modify it. Doesn't affect the moderation though.

Thanks Paul
I was hoping for a better showing at East London after good lap times at the Glen which could have moved me another place up the table.
Oh well more practice and see you on the grid in season 25
Cheers
Boggy
Ps
Hope Hristo can mod for inters