SimRacing.org.uk

Season 24 Works Trophy (67) - Round 10 - Brands Hatch

For the last round we hop over the channel to Kent, the "Garden of England" and the home of Brands Hatch.  The British Grand Prix has been held at Brands Hatch on 12 occasions and the European Grand Prix has been held there twice.  The 1966 Grand Prix was won by Jack Brabham and the 1968 race by Jo Siffert driving a Brabham Repco BT19 and a Lotus-Cosworth 49B respectively.  There have also been numerous non-championship Formula 1 races most noteably the Race of Champions in 1967 which was won by Dan Gurney in the Eagle-Weslake T1G.   

The track is particularly appropriate for Grand Prix Legends as it was widely used by Formula 1 cars in the 1960s.

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_GPG
IP address = 62.195.2.111
Race date = 02-06-2013
Race Time = race starts at 21:30 UK time
Qualifying Time = Between 30 and 60 minutes, starting no later than 21:00 UK time
Track = Brands Hatch 67
Variant = 67F1
Damage Model = PRO
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 32)
Password: see above (#post_event_password)
Replays Available here (http://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/inc_replaysS24_js.aspx)
Driver lists and token rules can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=387&theme=6)
The track can be downloaded from : Brands67 (http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=6810)
The full time drivers can start to practice as soon as the server is available.  Reserve drivers can also join as soon as the server becomes available but must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes; this will allow any remaining full timers to join.  If there is enough space on the grid, the reserve drivers will be able to rejoin when there are 30 mins of qualifying left. 

Please restrict chat to pit messages including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

The race will be run under PRO rules so no resets are allowed.

The chassis token system is explained on the Works standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=387&theme=6). Please ensure you choose a chassis that is within your budget, which can be seen by hovering the mouse over your points total in the standings.

Moderating The red zone will be fully moderated for lap 1 only. For this event the red zone will be from the start line to Pilgrim's Drop. Other moderation will be on reported incidents only.  However any incidents that occur in the red zone that are not reported by the drivers will be reported by the moderator.  This will allow all affected drivers the opportunity to present their case before the incident is moderated.  This should ensure there are no surprises when the moderator's report is published and hence appeals will be less likely.  If you haven't received a PM about an incident before the link below the results table is removed, you can be sure that you will not appear in the moderator's report.

GPG server is set to 32 laps Long race.
Ciao

Lost all sound right at the end of qualifying and did not have time to get back in before the race had started  :'( Have fun everyone and grats to the podium whoever it turns out to be.

Congrats to Art for the win and championship! I forgot about the race...  ::)

Ah, that's why we had fun then  ;D ;D

Guys, I am going to ask it on here again. Yesterday I had crazy temps in my front right tyre after a few laps (like, 160 degrees..). I tried to soften everything possible and lower the pressures during practice (I already had 50% brakes bias), but to no avail, so I figured it was a track related issue. Then I realised I am actually blocking my front right at almost every single right-hander, and only that wheel. I wonder if some of the setup gurus/resident alien organisms can be of help about this. Yesterday someone suggested a very interesting gyzmo (which is probably going to be considered at some point in the future, as the driving experience with a brake pedal that can measure pressure must be so much more rewarding), but I didn't use to have this problem in the past, and I started noticing it now (although this track was especially bad). I wonder if  it could be the controller in need of some cleaning, or is it just wishful thinking?

As for my race, it was fun as I had to push all the way through. Bob was just as quick, with Pod very close behind. We played all race long at 'hand back the lead' with Bob, and in the end he was the most committed, with a generous  spin just a few laps to the end  ;D. Very surprising the win in the championship, considering half way through I was all de-gpled and thinking of bailing out, you really never know  8).

Thx to all racers for the season, and to Phil and the other Mods for organising.

I don't know if that's the solution for your problem, but here (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=11728.new#new) I've posted few things about that brake mod ;)

As for my race:

In qual I've beat my PB. probably I would be able to go little bit fasther, but I was so happy with this time, that I've decided to leave it as it was and try few laps with full tank.

Race started well, Art and Bob were pushing hard so I had to drive as fast as I could to keep up. Afther few laps I made mistake and I run too wide on the last corner. Afther this mistake I had a very fast Evil drifting on my tale, but afther a while he made mistake and I was able to concentrate on chasing Bob.
I've spend most of the race watching Bob chasing Art.

At the end of the race Bob and I were playing in a game callego who don't want 2'nd place. I guess I lost the game :lol:

Grats to Art for the win and the title, thx to all the drivers and especially to Phil and the mod team for organising this great championship. Cya all in S25 ;)

Another wood medal that made me stole 2nd place to Al and Andy for a couple of points, sorry  ;D
Really I never paid attention to the standing cause I wasn't sure to partecipate to every race, but in the end I nailed a sequel of 4th places always starting from the back and trying to keep the thing on tarmac. Who knows how would ended at Rouen without the pile up at start?  :D
Thx all for the season and grats Attilio!

Had screen-freeze just about every time I've raced here so was amazed to get to the finish. Still my fave track for watching racing in real life, but hard work to drive around with these cars. Although Fulvio started behind me on the grid, I know he likes to qualify with a few bags of cement in the boot (!) & sure enough once the race started he was going like a rocket. Fulvio also seemed to be exploring the limits though, so every now & again would kindly allow me back ahead of him. I didn't realise we were effectively fighting over 2nd in the championship, though even if I'd known it wouldn't have made any difference as I simply wasn't as quick. Not a vintage season for me overall so rather amazed to end up 3rd in the standings - it was so close on points with Arf & Andy which just shows how competitive it was through the field. Congrats to Art for wrapping up the title in style & also to Bartosz & Bob. Thanks for some great racing chaps & hope to see you next season (though real-life might be a bit too busy...)       

It seems weird to have problems with your right tire, considering the track goes clock-wise and the left tires are the ones which take the most stress. If I had raced, my front right would have been the coolest of them all. Perhaps you're braking too deeply into corners and that locks it up? Or maybe your front is too stiff/rear too soft, I can't say without looking at your setup.

The hardest brake is at the end of the back straight whith a right hander so it's easy that the RF tire looses load and lock at the end of the braking when you begin to turn in cause there is a big dip at the beginning of the braking and a following rebound. The same happens at Druids T2. Maybe this effect is a bit too exagerate in GPL versus real life and put more stress on temps.
Ciao

Or you're just not braking properly. I never EVER have issues with front inside tire at any track. I try to ease off the brake as early as possible and just let the car drift into the corner, then get on the throttle as early as possible. You don't really gain any time by braking so deep, except for very slow corners and hairpins.

I didn't say my driving is correct, only arguing on the effect of bad driving or setup issues in GPL  ;D
By the way I usually run GH2 setups.
Ciao

Yes guys, as far as I know the internal tyre is the one that locks up first under braking. Watching my replay it is pretty clear, in all the right handers I tend to leave a stripe of rubber on the tarmac. I put the temps down to the braking precisely because theres only one left hander which kills the right front, and that is followed by a very long straight plus a series of right handers that should give the tyre plenty of time to cool down. Plus, no one else seems to have had this issue (Fulvio, how were your tyres' temps then?). I suspect it is a combination of driving style and rubbish setup. H, if you cared about having a look when you have time, I would pm it to you  :whistling:.

Sure, although, as I said, it also depends how you drive the car really. Not sure you can attach files here on the forums, so send it via FB or email.

Oh, no Attilio, I have exactly the same problems since some time!
This happens in all mods for me!

I have just watched my own driving and found that my braking seems to be too far into the corner, this works fine as long as the tyres are cool, but as soon as they get the green temperatures, the inside front gets far too hot :o

Yesterday in Privs, it was impossible for me to go on...

Gosh - so your tyres overheat?

It took me six months to realise that the tyre temps were colour coded! I just though blue was what they had chosen!  ;D

Attilio I had the same issue with RF, and when it went too hot I had a wide at Surtees, but I didn't check how hot were in that occasion cause I was too busy to battle with Al coming on my gearbox soon after  ;D
I thought to find tires temps in GPLRA, but no available.
Ciao

Aha, so other people had issues then..I suppose this track does something to that tyre with the killer corner before the back straight, which compounded with my brake lockups must have sent the temps into the stratosphere.

I actually never have problems with any of the mods, in fact tyre temps almost never get out of the blue colour for me as well. But I did notice that I tend to lock up much more than the other drivers in any case, I suppose with the mods it doesn't create the same problems. Even with the 67s it happens only in specific tracks, and always with the front tyres. Another bad one was Dijon, but it went away after a few laps of praccy, I guess that was more about sliding wide than locking brakes...Anyway, thanks for your input guys, and H I will email you my setup if you can spot something obviously wrong, thank you.

just re-calabrate it and see how it registers your inputs, mine are now either on or off lol :)

Grats to Art on a deserved championship with some very fast performances on all tracks.

Hot front tyres?, even tyres into the green range at the front would be a novelty!!! i rarely even get the fronts out of the dark blue range in any mod unless I have made an horrendous mistake somewhere or bent the steering/suspension.

Now if you want to talk about rear tyre temps...........I can write a thesis on the infra red range of rear tyre rubber and how it affects handling. I actually does not affect handling so much as remove it altogether!!! ::) Which is exactly what happened to me at Brands Hatch last night. I paid the price for pushing too hard and too early.

As to the locking of the inside tyre Art, my highly trained pit crew reckon it could be partially related to roll bar settings. If the physics in GPL correctly mimic real life, the roll bars could be allowing too much weight to transfer across to the outside wheel. Roll bars are there to control the natural inclination of the car to place all of its weight on the outside wheel at a corner and attempt to keep the pressure upon the inside wheel by mechanical means.
 I wonder if you run very soft or very stiff rollbar values. But as with all things related to setup in GPL no setup value works alone, each setting's effect is modified or accentuated by the value of other parameters in the setup and all we try to do is find the sweet spot that suits us.

Given your pace at most tracks, which is often close to WR pace I suspect that you are approaching the event horizon of setups, beyond which you will not spin off at a corner but vanish into a black hole of your own making.
 Just my considered opinions......I could of course be wrong and talking total bu**sh*t  ::) :shifty:

  Well, I have no idea how to do setups, but the power/coast angles might have something to do with it... being very terrified of this track, i tried running a safer 85/45 ramp angles, which ended up in terribly overheating rf/rb tyres. Then I got back to 60/60 and softened the front rollbar, and the tyre temp problems went away...  I might be doing the track quite wrong, but it seemed that despite it having very few left handed turns (maybe three in total) I had to literaly trow the car into them, and if i didnt slow enough prior to that, i could see the right front smoking alot... I had the car setuped asimetrically to turn easier to the right tho, so that might have something to do with it.

Also, if you run GH2 setups... as any alien setups these are made for to be driven almost with the rear tyres only, and the fronts have about 160 kpa just to get any heat possible in them... but if you want to turn more with the fronts, you need like 128-134 kpa in them, or they will go constantly in the red.

And you might have brake potentiometer problems, so check in your profiler/whatever if the brake slides smoothly whitout spiking. Or try to calibrate again...