SimRacing.org.uk

THIS POST IS FOR THE LIGHT & HEAVY RACES

Round X closes off the second season of Formula 2 racing. The venue is Solitude, a motorcycle racing track in Germany. It’s a long track with a combination of long flatout stretches & some interesting corner combinations. Trees have been strategically placed if you overshoot the fast corners. If you use asymetric sets ups it is a left handed track.

The series will run on two separate grids ~ The Lights will run on T7 & the Heavys on UKGPL 3. Please ensure you join the correct race. The Driver list is shown below & the Championship Table can be found here F2 Trophy  (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=389&theme=6)

Handicaps will continue to apply to this race– please observe this rule as a failure to take the correct car will result in an exclusion.
In the Lights Hristo – Group II (BT14, Ferrari or Cooper). Evil Clive & Magic Arsouille Group III – any of the Group II cars or either Lola or either Lotus.
In the Heavys – Rainier – Group II, RogUk & Ed 76 – Group III.  

A maximum of one reset is allowed per race & must be followed by a compulsory Stop & Go in the pit lane within two laps of the Reset. If you Reset on the last lap a 30 second time penalty will be awarded.
Incidents should be reported in the usual way.
In line with other divisions the races will be subject to full moderation in the red zone which will be to the speed bump at the crest of the hill – you’ll find it. The Moderator may chose to investigate any other incident, in addition to reported incidents & red zone incidents.

Please note that for UKGPL has introduced a system of penalties within each series for drivers accumulating yellow cards – see here
Penalty Points (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=10879.0). Drivers incurring these penalties will receive a PM advising when a penalty has been applied & what race it should served.

LIGHT	HEAVY
Arf Arf	Badblood
Cookie	Bernie
Evil Clive	Billy Nobtrakes
Fulvio	Bilto
Hristo	Dave Curtis
King Hiro	Geoff
Magic Arisoulle	Giovanni
Natan	Il Lupo
Phil Thornton
Bartosz	Nigel Smith
Raoni Frizzo	Paul Villers
Ronnie Peterson	Rainier
FMG	Boggy
Skymole	Francesco
Al Hellar	Pierre D
Doni Yourth	Vosblod
Dean Logan	Adam Cooper
Dean 0	Ed76
Robert John	Tin Tin
Uli	Du Fossa
Jonny O	RogUK
	Maddog

Race List = IGOR Server = UKGPL3 & T7 Race date = Sunday 09-06-2013 Time = 21:00 UK time (21:00 GMT) RACE STARTS AT 9.45 ~ 15 MINS LATE BECAUSE OF THE(REAL) F1 RACE IN CANADA Track = Solitude (http://gplea.rscsites.org/) Race length = 11 Laps Variant = 1967 Formula 2 Damage Model = Intermediate Qualifying time = minimum of 30 minutes

Tell me if I am wrong, but I should already be the season 24 Lights champion !!???
I have 46 pts more than Roguk but he have to remove 25 pts (his 2nd worst result), so even in the case of victory, Rog could only score 25 pts (50-25).
If I am correct, I will choose the BT14 ...just for fun ;) 

Assuming you were not involved in any incidents at Mosport then you are right David.  Roguk cannot catch you.

Congratulations on the Championship. 

I tried the BT14 at Silverstone last season.  It handles well but it is very under powered....it isn't fun  ;D.  Not being last will feel like a victory!

Gratulations David!

I just wanted to mention that the Solitude (http://www.solitude-revival.org/3-evn/2013/sr03-evt-13-group-D.htm) was not only a motocycle track...

Solitude never ran a four wheeled F1 Grand Prix, which is why Bill has styled it as a Motorcycle track. I normally find that after a corner or three I have reverted to type and only have two wheels...  ;D

I have seen here my first live F1 race in the early 60s...

David,
Congratualtions - you will be the Heavy's champion - maybe wait until next season for the Lights. I should also add my thanks for your part in winning another team championship for Black Night Racing.
As Phil said getting a competitive lap time out of the BT14 will be a challenge - you could try the Ferrari.

Thanks Billy ! Vive le Black Night Racing Team !

If there is a F2 championship in season 25, I would like to be part of the Lights.
But I think I will have to go back to Privateers for F1'67 ;)

About Solitude F2 race, I already drove the Dino Ferrari several  times (in season23) but never the BT14 so why not make a try ?
Moreover the Black Night team has 148 points more than the Clark Hill so whatever car I choose, the team should win !   

I'm afraid he will not have many pilots Sunday evening
last race + long track +  sun

You are not the only driver to think that way ::)

That's why it's no point practicing either!   It's all pretty much decided,  so just all stay away & get ready for season 25 which is just round the corner.   ok?!

Are you saying your only motivation for participating is to deal with championship standings?  ::) Solitude in the F2 mod is a great joy!

Not at all (well, not entirely),  was just trying to join in with the jovial comments.
Actually, I've just taken a turn round there.  Have now completed 6 laps round here in a F2.    Admittedly I'm following the groove,  but it is more enjoyable if you have an idea of what's coming up (which,  you will of course!).

I know F2 has been promoted to Sunday prime-time,  but I still miss F2 Fridays.

The link to download the track & SRMZ web-site appear to be unobtainable. As we have raced Solitude regularly I expect that most people will have the track.
Paul if you are able to upload the track to your server that might be a help - prefer not to reschedule at this rather late stage.
Hope to see most of you on track on Sunday!

I just added it to the Tracks (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Tracks/)

The included solitude_beta.zip is the upgrade, so read the readme...

Sorry for starting it all over again, but:


But why?
From what I know Dean and Sky are moving up, I hope that Axel and Florian are going into works too. So if you guys decide to step down to Privateers, you'll only dominate the championship. What's the point of that?

Is possible to start a little bit later?There is the Canada GP in F1.

Looks like it may just squeeze in if it's a dry race with no safety cars/restarts etc.   But soon as they cross the line - be ready to jump in the sim cockpit for some comparatively sedate driving (ha!).

Actually, as it looks as though BBC have this one live - maybe your request has a chance of possibly being passed to the committee :)


Personally, either is good (I can watch the post-race blah-blah another time),  but after sitting there for that long - yes it would be a shame to miss out one way or the other (although probably makes no difference to me if I miss 15-20mins of qually time).     It's unfortunate that formula1.com live timing is not re-playable...!


Cheers,
Dave.

As its the last race of the season & provided I don't get in trouble with the Chief Moderator I am happy if we start 15 minutes later. (That would be the same Chief mod who starts the servers).

If that was the case I wouldn't want to move down.  It would be no fun for me and no fun for the others.  Anyway my comment was meant to be light hearted - hence the roll eyes

It is a serious point though.  The ideal for everyone is to have competitive races but always be in with the chance of a win.  Unfortunately I seem to be at a level where I am the slowest in the Works and Lights but too fast for the Privateers and Heavies.  I don't mind being at the back in the Works and Lights when I have someone to race with.  In fact my battles with Monsieur Rainier in the Works have been the highlight of my season, I have missed the opportunity to race against him in the F2 class.

Having said that I don't mind who I race against.  David is getting faster and harder to beat.  In fact a lot of people I used to have regular battles with have now improved and are too fast for me now (e.g. Tim Muttram and Sam Blood S17 Clubmans, Ronnie Peterson S21 Historics particularly Round 7 :)).  I know I need to improve but to be honest I race for fun and don't want to put the time in practicing so that I am good enough to challenge for podiums in the top divisions.  So I'll have to take the opportunity to race against similar drivers when I get the chance, be it at the front or back of the field.

Thank you to all for the support.

Bravo David ;)

Had this track and lots more saved in a track folder, but waste of time and space as useless without installer, so thanks for posting link to Solitude track.

Just seen the race start time so I'm going to give this one a miss as well. Good luck all.

Any chance we can start races an hour earlier next season at 20.00hrs GMT rather than 21.00hrs GMT?

Qualified P2, Well Done Rog mate on P1.
Good start, got under Rog into T1 and got good drive out into the lead. He made my life miserable for the next couple until....I presume, he made a small mistake somewhere and I skipped out to a manageable 5-6sec lead. Eased off the pace a little for the next few and kept an eye on the gap, which Roger, to his credit...was slowly closing.
then with 4 to go, my G25 dropped out and left me with 0 control whilst the car proceeded to destroy itself. From past experience it won't function again properly until a reboot...so grats to whomever wins and other placings. Later all.
Geoff.

Quite pleased that I could still just see all the front-runners for the few laps, but after that it was lonely running.

Unlucky Geoff & the other unfortunates.  But on the upside, I managed to make a whole load (compared to the # of entrants anyway!)  of places without a contested overtake!  Is this racing?  Well, I suppose that having to finish thing crops up again...

Congrats to fellow BN,  BN.  From the GPLRA report,  I suspect that was quite eventful.  Still,  good to see you on the podium.


It's been a fun season.  This time,   I have managed to use the same car/setup at all races [thanks again JR!].  Despite some personal encouragement from MR R on the practice server recently,  I must admit - I did undo those suggested changes for the event.  Thanks anyway for the pointers.


Cheers all,
Dave.   

well , sorry for my race, my shifter don't work well, the 3rd and 5th speed jump alone, I have to keep my hand on it , then I nearly have to drive with one left hand!.......that's why I made all this trouble in race ...sorry for that , I think I have to do some mécanik to fix it......

...well done and Bravo H. for the champ and podium too.......c u maybe next season:)

 thanks to UKGPL and org.

bye

Well, the start was a mess actually, and it mostly affected me (as always) and cookie.. On turn 1, someone pushed cookie into spin, who hit me, then, when I tried to continue, cookie preformed a pit maneuvre and i was pointing at the wrong side again... waited for the remainder of the field to pass and continued all alone for some laps with noone to catch... found the track suprisingly boring or maybe the car was boring to drive...the fact that I was half asleep and in the middle of an important family conversation didn't help my driving, and finally i gave up and parked the car. Meh yawn meh.

Mods: Is it possible to submit an incident report without any supporting evidence? I only ask because I can't provide a transcript of the chat at the end of qualifying. I suspect everyone except Fulvio and I would be culpable..... and technically I might even be guilty myself of putting Fulvio off, as I posted as soon as I crossed the line, but I was so angry that I'd been distracted in the twisty section by lots of chatter. I'm getting fed up with having to post about this (is this the 2nd/3rd complaint I've made this season?), and the disadvantage I suffered might have made all the difference in T1...

..so T1. Someone in front of me made a bad start so I moved right and past them, and was moving quite well. I didn't push it though, and held back to try and get through T1 in one piece. I can't decide from my replay whether I didn't give Dean enough room, or whether I did (just) and he slid into me. Whatever, I ended up in the haybales and Sky for one got caught up in that. Sorry for that.

I didn't need to chase the pack, they came to me with L2 T1 carnage and I made up a few positions after weaving my way through all the car parts.. I then enjoyed some close racing with the survivors, but it didn't last long as Dean and Phil (?) contacted approaching Shatten and left me alone for a while. I then had two good races with Robert, both ending with him sliding off. I then got to relax for a while until I saw what turned out to be Phil in my mirrors. Like Robert, he appeared to be generally faster than me (who wasn't - I was the slowest qualifier who set a time!), but also like Robert, wasn't able to find an opportunity to pass me (well, only once, but I outbraked him into Shatten and took it back).  I thought I had it made when Phil slid off with 2/3 laps to go and P6 appeared assured, but Phil was able to catch me, but again, not pass me.

His solution was to hit me from behind on the last lap - purely accidental, and GPL rather unfairly decided to send me into orbit, thus requiring a reset when I re-entered the atmosphere. Dean got past and so I was looking at P8, but Phil sportingly slowed and let me past on the S/F straight..except that I forgot to go into the pits and Stop/Go, so I'll probably get shafted for that...

All in all, an evening to forget, despite the entertaining racing.....

Report it in LM2 please (you can cut and paste) and we will look into it.

Please guys, Colin is right - NO CHAT in practice!

Hi Badblood,


Server / race report shows me as a disco... did finish race even though as expected i was last.

all points needed and greatly received Boss !


Paul V.

Happens that the server loses track of you Paul. I will check and adjust the result accordingly.

The season seems to have flown by. So, congratulations to Hristo as Light’s champion (winning the last race from the back of the grid!) & to David Rainier who won the Heavy’s without even starting the final race. As David will be promoted the Black Night team will need to work harder to retain the team title next season.

Thanks to all the drivers for supporting the Formula 2 series in Season 24. The turn out was slightly down last & Solitude can be a lonely place if the field gets stretched out. (I didn’t see a single car from lap 2 onwards – apart from Nigel who’d found a nice spot in the trees for a picnic). Poor lap 1 & made a couple of silly mistakes on the last lap but the bit in the middle was consistent enough for the bottom step of the podium. Next season I suspect Race 10 will finish with a shorter track.

I’ve noticed the last couple of races that I’ve lost places off the start grid. I generally use the default gear ratios & lengthen 4th & 5th for long fast tracks. Do other people use a short 1st gear – or I am I just slow away?

I am sometimes amazed at how slowly some racers start.  It must be either lack of practice, or lack of skill.  Practice takes very little time.  Skill requires enough imagination to treat the cars realistically.  You don't see real cars crawl away from traffic lights, because everyone has learnt to slip the clutch.  Racing clutches bite hard, so it's the tyres which do most of the slipping.

There are occasions where cars are late off the grid.  Chatting to a girlfriend, or general distractions can affect your race, and those behind you.  At Solitude, instead of a demo, I made a disco as the grid was forming.  Apparently, this also requires practice. >:(

Whilst in no way defending the chat during qually Colin, we have a rule about it and we should all respect it, simples.

 I put my hand up as guilty of posting a "grats" to the pole sitter as I crossed the line, I should have checked first that everyone had finished their laps.

 But I do wonder why you find it so distracting, unless you are using a font size much bigger than it is on my prib? Any chat message on my screen appears in red in the top left corner and is actually so small that it takes a conscious effort to look for it and even more to read it. So it is easy to ignore. In fact I very often miss any messages that might be relevant, simply because they do not even register within my field of vision.

Please do not misunderstand this post, I am not suggesting that you are anything but correct in asking that we all respect the rules, but I am curious to know why you find it such a distraction when I can hardly see the chat text.

As to the technique of getting the F2's off the line....

I fall into the "make the tyres do the slipping" camp. This is OK, but I find that I need to adjust 1st gear to ensure that the revs will not drop out of the max torque range when you drop the clutch/bang it into 1st as the flag drops. This might mean that I have to be revving against the red line for the start. Then it is a case of balancing the wheelspin against grip until you can slip into 2nd gear and make your getaway.
Ideally, when you engage drive the revs will drop just to the bottom of the max torque range and no lower as the tyres spin and work as a clutch. Once the tyres are spinning and the car is moving forward it is a case of modulating the gas so that the slippage slowly reduces as the velocity increases and you get full drive without bogging down. Too much wheelspin and it is possible to do a "Rouen a la Evil" where the car will lose all directional stability and skewer sideways suddenly....only total numpties do this!  ::)
The dilemma with the F2's ( and to a certain extent 65's) is that it can be very useful to run a high ratio 1st gear if the circuit has some very slow corners. Maybe somewhere like Mosport where a good exit from Moss is vital you will need a sweet 1st gear, but at Monza you will only use 1st off the grid so set it up for a demon start as you will only use 1st once ( unless you visit the gravel traps of course!).

The difference between a slow corner and a racing start is that you are already rolling on a slow corner and the car will respond more quickly when you give it some welly and then the longer 1st gear ratio comes into it's own. But that same ratio might be just a tad too high to pick up off the grid and if it bogs down you are a dead duck and will certainly cause a log jam at best or lose several places as cars sweep past!!
The alternative is to use 1st ONLY for the start and arrange your other ratios to accommodate all the corners on the track. This means a bigger spread across the remaining gears, which might be less than ideal for some corners, especially as these F2's require driving at 100% to extract the ultimate lap times ( kind of obvious I know!  ::) )

Thanks Evil. The slow start is more of an issue with F2’s. For 65’s most download set ups have quite 1st gear high ratios (10:1 – 12:1 ish). Conversely anything higher than 1:8:2x in a ’67 usually results in the car going in any direction but straight. My starts in ’65 & ’67 mod are about average. To be honest I don’t know what the default gear is for the F2 but the rev counter drops to almost nothing when I dump the clutch & one or two cars sail past before I get traction. I’ll try some different ratios.

While I respect the chat ruling and it bothers me when people chat while others are driving, personally I've simply turned off chat. Instead of relying on people always keeping quiet, which is impossible really, why not just get rid of in-car chat completely through the options menu? I don't really see the point in having in-car chat while driving in a league race anyway...

Additionally, you can't turn off system messages, so any time someone quits the server, it's as a distracting as normal chat. If you can deal with system messages, chatting shouldn't bother you. If you can't, turn off chat and only get distracted by system messages.  :D

As for my race, it was very intense, which was to be expected because of my slower car (on the straights anyway) and my start from the back of the grid. The latter was because I totally forgot about the race, and when I saw it was past :30, I thought I had missed it and thus most likely lost the title. Fortunately the start was moved forward because of the F1 race, so I could just about test my Mosport setup with adjusted gears and managed to set them just about right.

I knew T1 would be risky, so I was glad that there was no big pile up as it usually happens at Solitude. The top drivers were very quick though and it took quite a couple of laps until I could increase my pace enough to catch up with them. Passing anyone was difficult because as soon as they would get behind me, I would lose the position again down the long straight. With some people making mistakes though, I managed to move up to 2nd and chase the leader. I thought it was Tristan, but was surprised to find out a lap later that it was Fulvio. He really was flying and it took my very best to not only pass him, but manage to remain in 1st by opening enough of a gap before the long straight.

From there on I was just maintaining my pace and enjoying the track. Apart from the long straights, it was a good drive with the F2 Cooper (and F2 cars in general). They're so forgiving that you can really push without fear and catch any slides with ease.

About starting with these cars, I can only do it properly if I rev up in neutral and change into 1st without lifting up. A risk for the engine and clutch, but the only way to keep the revs up after the gear engages. I suppose it's possible to start with a clutch if you have a pedal instead of a button, but I don't so I don't know. I agree it's difficult on some tracks, especially with cars that have narrow torque range engines and 5 gears, but most of the time it's not so bad.

Paul,

I think its because Im so slow... the server thinks I have stopped or something.  :0)

Paul V.

Unfortunately, I could not race at Solitude because there was a violent orage in Rambouillet where I live on last saturday evening... and my Internet box was seriously damaged.
Now I just install a new one and I hope it will work fine for the next races.

I did several tests with the BT14 and was regular around 3'47 - 3'48 at Solitude.

re Hristo and Clives' comments;

I have never changed the settings for the chat, which means that what I assume H refers to as system messages, e.g. "Hristo Itchov has connected"/disconnected appear in red, and chat appears in white. Unless someone is having a really bad night with their connection these only appear at the start of a session, or very infrequently through the session for late joiners. I barely notice the red anyway. I do notice the white, and in a race/qually environment, I actually want to;

I have always found the Pit Out / Pit In messages useful** for avoiding rear ending someone slowing down, or more usually getting some warning that a car may appear in the pit exit as I'm passing. For these reasons I don't want to turn the chat off. (I have even seen once/twice Mods asking people to leave the server for tech reasons - not sure if there is a reason they can't just switch it off...but anyway, not my main point..). The problem with chat is that you can get used to seeing PO/PI in the corner of your eye and not being fussed by it, but if its something else less predictable it becomes irritating, as your brain tries to read it - last night someone asked something about the race length, a question that could have easily been answered by reading the race post *whilst you were picking up the password* (or checking the in-game menu) - I think it is unfair to expect me to turn off chat just so some lazy git can ask an unecessary question.

I think the 'WDs' are well deserved, 'GLA's good sporting behaviour and the 'Careful at T1/2/3' messages a good reminder in the heat of the moment, so I'm happy that we chat between the end of the session and the start of the race - after all, we'd be pretty anonymous to each other if we didn't have some contact. However, to see loads of these flicker over the screen whilst you're on track is just not fair.

Arf

** I do not find someone attaching their name to it at all useful, e.g. ARF ARF PIT OUT, they're very irritating (and WHY THE CAPITAL LETTERS??????). I guess it might be useful for Pit In messages if you know who is around you, and therefore whether it will affect you, but you already have the initials to go by.

There were no radio's, or onboard visual communications in the 60's.  Chat while cars are on the track, should be reserved for emergencies only, IMHO, during an official race.  'PO' is of no use, without being used precisely on time, on a few dangerous tracks, for those who don't ignore it.  The original drivers coped without it, though rarely crawled out of the pits, as some do now.  

Sorry about that Arf, I was looking forward to a last lap dice and I just got too close trying to position myself for a pass down the long straight.  I've submitted a report.  Don't know what the outcome will be but there was warp involved so I might not get a penalty.  So just in case that happens I gave the place back, you didn't deserve to get punted off like that.  The UKGPL rules specifically state that drivers shouldn't hand places back and leave the decision to adjust the finishing position to the moderators (it just gets too messy on track with cars crawling along waiting for someone to get going and retake the position) but I pulled over in a very safe place so there was no chance of causing an incident.

TBH I find all the "POs" and stuff very irritating and useless. That's why I have my chat turned off completely. Why should I care there is a car exiting the pits or running full fuel? Am I supposed to scrap my flying lap because someone is exiting the pits and doesn't care to get off the line?

I agree chatting should be forbidden, of course, but my point is, if it really bothers you so much, turn the chat off. It's impossible to control everyone every time and chats do happen frequently, regardless of that rule. It's just like incidents, even if you hand out penalties, as we do, incidents still do happen. People won't suddenly stop chatting completely just because there is a penalty. Sometimes you just miss that someone is still on a flying lap and start chatting. I was actually aware of people being on a flying lap at the end of Q in this event, and as soon as I wrote something, I realized it and stopped, but I guess not everyone considered it.

Perhaps the main culprit for chats is that not everyone is aware a session is not over when the clock runs to zero, but when it says Complete instead of Stand-By in the session status. That seems to be the main reason, not a lack of manners.

Yeah, I am with you Hristo!

But I don't turn it off, expecting only serious chat. Most irritating for me are the auto PO's...

I am guilty too to have written "Grats" after some others... SORRY for that!