SimRacing.org.uk

Season 25 Friday Trophy - Rounds 7 & 8 - Efexx

We stay in Belgium at Effex now that most of those competing have had the chance to get to know this short fantasy track.

Because this circuit has a short lap length there would normally be a lot of cars being lapped by the leaders. Please be aware that the car in front may be running at a very different pace so care and patience is required.

PLEASE READ THIS. IT EXPLAINS THE FORMAT THAT THIS 20 RACE SERIES WILL USE.

Please refer to the list of tracks on the "Announcements" page for the Friday Trophy.

This is really designed to be a fun series with 4 different car mods running 2 sprint length races each Friday.
This week will be GT's and Can Am cars
 In each category there is a choice of 4 cars for drivers from the Heavy brigade, but the Lights will be limited to a choice of 2 cars. ( see the list below)
We have stepped up from the F2's and the 69x's of last week to the GT's and Can Ams. Around this track outright power and handling tend to balance out, so it will be an interesting pair of races for everyone I hope.

The first race this week will  be GT and the first qually session will start at approx 20:45 for 20mins. Race starts at approx 21:05
The second race will be for Can Am cars with another 20minute qually and a 25 minute race.


There is a single S/R allowed and you DO NOT need to perform a Stop and Go. It would be nice if those who cause an accident allow the innocent victims to regain their position when you rejoin the racing.


These cars are for the first half of the season including the races at MOON. There will be different sets of cars for the second half of the season.

So, the last 2 cars are for the Lights and the Heavies can chose any car from the list of 4 if they wish. Please be honest and choose a car that suits your ability. The aim is to have some very close racing.

Cars for F2            Brab BT23 and Lotus 48,               Cooper and Ferrari

Cars for 69X          Lotus 49b and Matra MS80        Mclaren M9A and BRM P126/139

Cars for GT           Chap 2F Porsche 910                Mirage M1 and Ford Mk2B

Cars for Can Am     Mclaren M8D and Lola 260         Porsche 917/10 and Ferrari 712M      


If it proves that the handicap for the lights is too harsh in any of the categories, I might consider changing the cars, but let us wait and see how things work out. I suspect that the Lights will still be quick.


Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_8
IP address = tbc
Race date = 02-08-2013
Race Time = race 1 starts at 21:05 UK time
Qualifying Time = 20 minutes, starting  20:45 UK time
Track = Effex (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Tracks/Efexx/efexx1.2.zip)
Variant = GT and Can Am
Damage Model = intermediate
Race length = 25 minutes (laps 23 (GT) / 24 (CanAm))
Password: see above (#post_event_password)
Replay = will be here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Replays/Archive/Season25/Friday/)


The full time drivers can start to practice as soon as the server is available.  Reserve drivers can also join as soon as the server becomes available but must leave the server with 10 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes; this will allow any remaining full timers to join.  If there is enough space on the grid, the reserve drivers will be able to rejoin when there are 5 mins of qualifying left.  

Please restrict chat to pit messages including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

The race will be run under intermediate rules and a single reset is allowed. Races WILL be moderated for reported incidents only unless there is something VERY BAD happening!! so be nice to each other. ;)


Full moderation of lap one red zone

LAP ONE RED ZONE: Full moderation from race start to the end of lap 1.

Well, just downloaded/installed the CA71 mod.  Not exactly nimble are they?! 

I have no real reference,  but can anybody give an indication as to what an ok-ish consistent laptime round here for an absolute beginner could be?    [of course, I would struggle with the consistent part - unless it's consistently going off!].   

The 1x other lap on GPLRank shows 0:56,  of course - that may also be way off?

Cheers,
Dave.

I did a few laps also doing 56's in the Mc F.

The Can AMs may not be nimble but what they do have is a stupid amount of sheer power. The secret to getting the best out of these beasts appears to be utilising that power without shredding those poor rear tyres.
The best suggestion I have heard is to imagine that you have an egg under the gas pedal and feed in the power at a rate that the tyres can actually handle.
For sure you can blitz a couple of laps leaving long black streaks all around the circuit but once the tyres get overheated you will seriously struggle to get those temperatures back under control.
The wing settings help ( just like the 69x) but there is still more power available then you probably really need, which was one of the features of these monsters in real life.

I recently was lucky enough to be at Mclaren and looked over the M8D in their display, A monster 7+ litre aluminium V8 block, 4 ruddy great tyres, a very uncomfortable looking seat with no padding worth talking about and the thinnest aluminium bodywork that you ever saw!! equipment and extras were non existent and this machine was designed to be as powerful and as light as possible with only the very basics of downforce from the rear wing. They must have been awesome to drive....but scary!!!

I would suggest that you try all of the cars available and decide which one is easiest ( most compliant) to drive, because if you are confident about the handling you will almost certainly drive faster even if it feels slower. Especially as this track does not have any enormous straights.

The 0:56 was just a time to test the track, I think a 0:54 should be the top...
The CA times should be a little faster than the 69X.

Try to find John Robert's CanAm setups he posted! They have the right balance to make the handling easy!

doh, I did 10 laps or so with default setup and wasn't going to go any faster :(

This is my Lola T260 setup I had:

Thanks chaps.  Seems I need a lot more practice before Friday then :)
[& that's without looking at the GTs!]

Yeah - I had made a point of using JR's setups for 'all' of my running so far.

Cheers,
Dave.

Whilst JR's setups are considered very good, they will best suit those that have a similar driving style to his. I would maintain that we all approach GPL with a different style and expectation of how we want the car to behave.

So, if you don't feel that Jr's setups suit you don't be afraid to try something different. Maybe start with a JR setup and tweak diff, clutch and damper settings until it begins to feel right. Then save that setup as a baseline to go back to and continue tweaking. That way if you find that you have created a beast that you just cannot control, you can at least go back to the setup that began to feel right and try another direction.

The alternative is to try and modify your driving style to suit the setup and extract the maximum from it. Maybe not so easy as it takes a lot of concentration and control to brake earlier than you naturally want to, turn in later than you want to and refrain from nailing the gas when you feel you should be able to at each and every corner.
I would suggest that is it better to put your efforts into developing your own setup so that you are driving a car with which you feel comfortable?

if anybody wants my can am setups they can be found here

http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=8875#entry86642

yes Clive my setups could be used as a base , as they were all made the same way .
so if you adjust one car to suit your driving style than that amount of change can be done to another car to duplicate that feel .

i agree it's best if everybody does their own setups however some people don't have a clue about setting up a car , it could be they are new to gpl or they cant get their heads around the can ams . also when i posted my setups there were very few available for download , i don't know if that has changed .

have you ever thought about uploading your marvellous can am setups to let other try them Clive ?   

Your setups obviously work very well and a lot of people find that they can get good results John and you should be thanked for providing them. My post was really a response to those members who try the default setup (or whichever setup they have found) and although the car is still a handful for them they are reluctant or afraid to change anything in case they make things worse.
Provided that they save their baseline setup that they started with and use another copy to tweak, they will lose nothing but might gain a) a more suitable setup for their style and b) they may begin to understand how various adjustments affect the car's handling?

I have yet to find an article that fully explains how each GPL parameter affects a car's handling in simple terms.  There are several very interesting and technical articles about how clutches and diffs work in Real Life!! and how bump and rebound settings made 67 GP cars handle, but very little simple advice for those who want to develop their own GPL setups.
 I know that some things in GPL are sort of inter dependent and it is not quite as simple as a case of    "if the car understeers, adjust this".   But, if someone like yourself with a broader understanding than most in the area of setups could post a basic guide to get people started, I think that would be of great benefit to many.
 
Maybe almost as responses to a FAQ list? How often do we see the same complaints/plaintiff cry for help on forums from the newer members??

e.g.
I cannot get the car to turn in?......................a) do this  or b) reduce this  or c) change this
I get snap oversteer on the corner exit..............a) then try this or this

etc etc. We could have a topic on our forum where we start with a list of the most common queries from our own new members add slowly add answers as the questions are raised?

I would definitely not claim that my Can Am setups are "marvellous", far from it  ::), but I am slowly working on getting a handle on these beasts. Practice time is my biggest problem and I have only driven about half of the cars for more than a few laps and maybe only 3 in a full race situation with what I consider a workable setup. Incidentally I have the same problem with the GT's.
I will try and post what I have and others can try them. It is a shame that the forum does not allow the easy upload of files like setups because with computer (non) skills like mine such a task could become a nightmare....but I will see what I can achieve.

Thanks chaps, lots of help offered - you can feel the love!
Personally, I'm not going to be messing around with anything (too inconsistent & probably would not be able to tell any difference anyway).

But after a few more laps tonight,  I'm managing to stay on-track & Prib is flatteringly suggesting dip into 57s is possible.  I always find it surprising how much difference it makes, just leaving something for another day is - and the resulting improvement without actually doing anything...    

Now to look at the GTs then.


I've not specifically seen it mentioned anywhere - but as a newcomer;  it doesn't look as if there's any of that rolling start nonsense?  ;)
I'm assuming not & I'm planning not to!  But please speak up if I've missed something obvious here!

Cheers,
Dave.

Those dastardly un-British rolling starts of ill repute, have been banished from our realm.  They should be left with the Sims they were designed for.  So, GL with setup sorting . . . and don't forget to practice starts.  ;D

About the new Virtual Mirrors for CanAm71 found in the new patch...is anybody here who knows how to change the location of the virtual mirror ? In my fov the VM is outside the boundary of my screen !  :P

I'd have probably been last anyway;  but DSL dropped out for just long enough to disco from race1  :(
[I'll have to look at the server replay,  but I don't recall it being too bad really]


DSL managed to survive all of race2.   I'm convinced my DSL line/associated hardware was full of builder dust/rubble - so maybe sweeping it all out/reset helped.
Did notice that when I rejoined for the last 5 mins - the server seemed to forget that I'd previously managed a 58.56  (although was good to not be in the pack from the start).

Certainly I found the CA71 more fun than the GTs.  Although getting back on track in an absolute nightmare!   
Luckily,  Clive was also practicing his off-roading too!  Unlucky fellas on the last lap,  but cheers!


Cheers all,
Dave.

had a great race in gt I like the Mirage. Gz with great driving Cookie. Got smashed out of first position in Cans and I didn t remember it wasn t stop and go. I did it in the 69 too .

Grats to the podiums of both races and everyone who drove tonight.

Apologies to Axl for a couple of tight squeezes in the CanAm race both at the start and when I had recovered form an error later on. I don't think I did anything naughty but sorry anyway. Also to the car that tipped me round, John P I think, no problem as far as I am concerned all part of the fun. But I hope I did not spoil your race.

Great series and looking forward to the next pair of races.

gts was ok, bit of a non event for me running around off the pace, lucky to get 4th.
can am was ok, litttle error left me 3rd chasing down Ronnie and Hiro, Ronnie mad it easy by spinning, caught Hiro and rear ended him, sorry again, i will submit a report. thanks all good fun, mostly.

[CanAm]
I've had the same problems too. At acertain point a windows showing another part of the track has shown up in the middle of the screen and then it disappeared. A few mins later the sound became bad and then I had a disco but early my FPS dropped down to 10 for a min at least !  :P :-[

[GT]
Almost all the race made with 15 FPS !!!  :P :-[
I didn't have the pleasure to make a single race like it should have been.

I have an ATI HD4670 AGP with 1024 megs of DDRIII VRam  ::)

Yeah, the Mirage is a wonderfull car to drive and the 917 Porsche is very similar.

In the CanAm it was a little confusing for me as the Porsche handled a bit different and after a GT race it was quite strange to drive another car and not to use the reflexes learnt before  ::)

NP Ray, I tried to pass, nothing happened...

Dave you rejoined with another driver name in IGOR ;)
I saw it when importing the data.

Actually, that was from the 1st time I joined :)    I noticed that my setup was not available  (well, JR's!),   so I backed out & re-joined;  next time being sure to not select my 67 driver in iGOR...

On the re-join with the correct driver,  so I ventured out.  Surprisingly to a sub-1min!
Then left as I'm a part-timer;  to rejoin with a couple of mins to go.

Still - as mentioned;  probably just as well.    That provisional 3rd place on the grid when I dropped out, was really not sitting well with me.  Was thinking that maybe should have practiced a few starts,  rather than messing around with GTs last night...

About 10 minutes before the Gt race I realised that my setup was for the novice car and not the race car so a bit of quick spanner work revealed that the race car had 3 gears and the novice 4? so I abandoned the chap in favour of the porsche at the last minute and quickly tried to sort the gears out- it proved really quite good just losing out in the higher gears on outright speed. The Canam was a different story with a bit of out of control weaving into turn 2 I put a massive chop on Dave.c I think- really sorry. After a few spins I slowly got the measure but not before tapping Ronnie into a spin- my apologies Ronnie. I was having a good run towards the end but spun on the last lap and could not rejoin until what seemed half the field had passed me. Great fun though- a big thanks to evil for sorting this Friday thing out. I must admit I have never seen so many cars airbourne on one night. :)

Well, the intention was to try and generate a "fun" series where everyone could compete on a single grid and the racing might be a little less intense. I think we are enjoying the fun element, but it seems that the desire to compete and win at the front is difficult to subdue  ::)  lol.

Grats to the podium places and to those who finished ( not really any excuse for not completing the race as you are allowed a shift-R without any SnG?).

I had only managed a brief run on Cookie's practice server with the CA Porker during the week and  hardly any track time in the GT options.
I opted for the Mk2b as I thought that it might add some colour to a grid that was likely to be all blue and orange?? You can see how scientific my race preparations are. The choice of car, the lack of real practice and lack of a proper setup was further screwed by my wife insisting that I play taxi and collect her from a friends house on Friday evening, just before the 1st race  :scared:
I rushed out onto the track with half a setup and eventually managed to complete a lap without incident that put me 3rd (?), but the setup was deffo giving cause for concern and that lumpy Mk2 was proving a handful when it got near the limit.
Everything bad came together on lap 3 following Tom across the S/F line. I had discovered that the MK2 had a better top speed than the Mirage, but the problem was where I could use it. The only place to make a clean challenge was into that 1st hairpin, and it meant being far enough behind out of the last corner so that I could nail the gas all the way past the pits and through the kink without backing off. Unfortunately, on lap 3 I got it all wrong and I caught Tom approx 75mtrs too soon and had to lift just as we took the right hander at the end of the pitwall. With a decent setup the car should simply have slowed and maintained its line........ahem!!  ::) but my tank decided that power ON meant slight oversteer ( I like that!) but power OFF will ignore 90% of the steering input and plough straight on ( not so good!!). So when I lifted to avoid rear ending Tom those sturdy hay bales welcomed me and launched the car into  a spectacular aerial display admired by many of those cars that went past!!  :-\ Some were laughing I am sure but this was a seriously ambitious attempt to gain style points.
From there on I fell foul of over driving and made too many mistakes with a car that was fast at 95% but determined to rip my head off if I tried to extract 100%, so to recover to 3rd was an unexpected bonus.

Can Ams, and the mix of cars was more interesting with growling V8 Fezzas and screaming Porkers and a couple of Lolas. Again lack of track time in these cars is my excuse, but I had a great fun race with far too many mistakes even managing to throw away about 3 positions on the final lap as I trimmed the grass instead of staying on the tarmac!!

The next circuit is a little more challenging, but worth learning and very satisfying once you get it right. In the faster cars watch the crest at the end of the straight, apparently there are no extra points for aerobatic moves!!  :-\. The F2's will storm around it as will the 69'sand Can Ams, but I think the Gt's will be the toughest to hustle around.

About the single "Shift+R" rule.
Supposing I already have had my Shift+R because of an incident and after this, someone kicked me out beyond the fence. May I make another Shift+R or am I out of the race ?
So in other words, who has already made his Shift+R and is involved in another incident with the result of car badly damaged, may he make another Shift+R ?

Thanks

LOL   ::)

I think we had a similar incident in a league race a few years ago Axel. Someone got kicked over the wall and found that there was no way back, so they were forced to do a Shift-R and the mods decided to allow it as it was not the fault of the poor driver.

That would be Sergio, Clive [clouds, not Cookie!] You been at the sherry again?

The player punted over the fence was Nigel in a GT and it is very funny. I will see if I can find the clip.


The answer to the question though is, no. If you take more than one Shift-R you will be disqualified.

LOL



OK Thanks, but I think that someone in fight for the championship will be not so happy to be kicked out of the fence the last race without having the chance to retake the track.

We would take a VERY dim view of somebody doing that deliberately but there is plenty of scope for making up for dodgy races....

Appreciate the reporting Gareth, keeping the gentleman spirit in the racing.