SimRacing.org.uk

Season 25 Novices and Intermediates Trophy - Round 5 - Spa

Welcome to the fifth round in the 65's class of UKGPL for the continuation of our twenty fifth season. Spa. THE classic Belgian track. Frightening in real life we don't have to contend with some of the brutal realities. In GPL Spa is all about trying to find a tow or it can be a lonely night. One of the longer tracks you are looking at sub 3.40 for a quick lap (not that I would know...).

The original triangular shaped course, which was designed in 1920 by Jules de Their and Henri Langlois Van Ophem, used public roads between the towns of Spa, Malmedy and Stavelot.  The course was extremly fast and was made even faster in 1939 with the introduction of the famous Eau Rouge section.  The circuit was completely revised and shortened for the 1981 Belgian Grand Prix but it is the faster 8.761 mile version of the track that we will use for this race.

The 8.761 mile version of the circuit was used between 1946 and 1970 and whilst corners like Eau Rouge, Burnenville and particularly Masta; presented the drivers with exceptional challenges - the circuit was very dangerous and claimed the lives of many drivers.

NB. There is ONE grid for both the Novices and the Intermediates

The Novices and Intermediate Trophies will remain sharing a grid until further notice.

As before, handicapping the top three drivers makes little sense, especially at this track. I am working on amalgamating the championships and if that can be carried through handicapping may be introduced. So, until further notice, all drivers have a FREE choice of car.

Hopefully there turn outs will continue to improve.

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL3
IP address = ukgpl3.dyndns.org
Race date = 01-10-2013
Race Time = race starts at 21:30 UK time
Qualifying Time = Between 30 and 60 minutes, starting no later than 21:00 UK time
Track = Spa (Papy original)
Variant = 65F1 - the 2.02 Release of the 65mod should be used
Damage Model = INT
Race length = 40 minutes (laps 11)
Password: see above (#post_event_password)
Replays Available here (http://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/inc_replaysS25_js.aspx)

65 Patch: The 2.02 Release of the 65mod can and should be used. You need a working installation of the 65 mod to install the 2.02 Update. All the 65 Mod files can be found here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Mods/1965)

Driver lists can be found on the Novice (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=406) and Intermediate (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R;group=407) championship standings pages.

The full time drivers can start to practice as soon as the server is available.  Reserve drivers can also join as soon as the server becomes available but must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes; this will allow any remaining full timers to join.  If there is enough space on the grid, the reserve drivers will be able to rejoin when there are 30 mins of qualifying left.  

Please restrict chat to pit messages including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

Intermediate drivers are limited to ONE reset. Novices have unlimited resets but EACH Shift-R MUST be followed within TWO laps by a Stop 'n' Go.

Moderating The red zone will be fully moderated for lap 1 only. For this event the red zone will be from the start to the Masta kink. Other moderation will be on reported incidents only.  However any incidents that occur in the red zone that are not reported by the drivers will be reported by the moderator.  This will allow all affected drivers the opportunity to present their case before the incident is moderated.  This should ensure there are no surprises when the moderator's report is published and hence appeals will be less likely.  If you haven't received a PM about an incident before the link below the results table is removed, you can be sure that you will not appear in the moderator's report.

Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Sorry to miss this one - football commitments clashing with GPL again.
Have fun & catch up at the next round.

I should be there; barring any family interruptions. I need to do quite a bit of practicing before I can lap without wrecking. Hopefully I'll get that sorted tomorrow. Looking forward to it. -Walter

See you on the grid Walter

Boggy

Unless you're in close company, Spa is all about staying awake until the next crisis!  There's a new realistic version, being endlessly worked on, which will be quite different. 

Have a good one guys will miss this one still on holiday 32c today Minorca.

So it's still not finished yet then?!  :)

With some lucky racers basking on holiday, I'm reminded of the old 4 wheeled phrase, "Are we there yet?"  It's usual hereabouts, for roadworks and Modworks to be done, mostly in winter, and traffic tends to flow at a similar pace.  :smartass: :blink:

Race ruined on lap 1 by a spinning intermediate Ferrari. Left plenty of room but still got punted off >:(

Accident on lap 1 at Masta between Fabio's Ferrari and my BT11.
I did not see Fabio overtaking me at Masta ...that's a bit dangerous at this place !

sorry to Dave Curtis who hit my car and lost several seconds.

Sorry to you DR;  it suddenly became clear that the car round the bend in the middle of the track was not moving!

Luckily for me I did not need a reset;  but even with your S+G you has soon caught up & past.

I guess the 3-abreast down the back section was a bit of excitement.  I don't think there was any contact either!

Fun race and FL for the second race  :angel:

Made a mistake at Masta and lost third place to Ivan but I steadily closed him down and he made a mistake that let me through and gave me some breathing space. Set about trying to catch Johnny. He let me get close but he was just teasing!

Pleased with second though. Two mistakes cost me the race - getting closer Billy!

My lap time was a little off pace, but luck was on my side. On the first lap, I barely slipped past some wrecked cars in Masta. Later, I went past il_lupo_Mannaro's Ferrari as it was recovering from an off. He overtook me, and I was able to follow his faster Ferrari. This strategy was working until I spun at LaCarriere. Then Rainer was able to overtake me, and I finished just ahead of dave curtis, who was also closing the gap. I enjoyed the race. Congrats to Johnny, Badblood and Ivan. I am already looking forward to next time. -Walter

I did a ton of practice at this track, as I really like Spa and wanted to win here. So I'm still feeling a little gutted.

Could not get a tow in quali, so I did my best and was disappointed with my time. I was doing 3:37's in off line practice, but this was with a tow.

Started 2nd, when I put my car into gear it jumped forward. I stopped it as soon as I could, but I think it counted as a jump start :( as I was getting boards telling me to pit, and then I was DQ'd. In the past I remember being told to ignore those boards as the moderators can sort it out after the race. I'm not too bothered if you can or not, as I am really disappointed with my race.

As far as the race went, I managed to get ahead of Ivan at the start, and was leading with Johnny right being me. We where pulling a tiny margin on Paul in third, so I set about trying to break the tow to Johnny. I just couldn't do it, but as long as I got a good drive out of the corners I did manage to stay ahead of him. After a couple of laps Johnny managed to get a better drive onto the main straight and he got me going into the long right hander. I knew it was OK, as I would be able to follow his tow and quite easily past him again at the next straight, but for some reason I fought him going into the corner. I tried to carry too much speed on the outside and hit the hedge, causing me to spin out. I tried to spin back in the right direction, which caused me to spin again, and again, and again. The red mist came down and I had another spin at the next series of corners too :(

After that I was a long way back in 4th. Paul was ahead of me, and Ivan ahead of him. I chased them down, and managed to pass Ivan and a small mistake at the hairpin cost me my chance of chasing Paul down. I was seeing DQ'd on my board for just about all the race, and know that my races laps weren't counted, but I did get a 3:38 when chasing down Ivan. I thought I saw the checkered flag so came to a stop, but thinking about it I might of been a lap early.

Still gutted over this race, silly mistakes cost me any chance here but there is always next time :)

Well done to Johnny, Paul and Ivan. Good race between you guys and hoping to enjoy the next one with you.

Just a quick question. Why are the results being shown as everyone in the Novices, and then Inters having their own table? Shouldn't it be the other way around, with the Inters having the full table and Novices being stripped out?

I got a good start and passed Ivan into 2nd, I needed a tow to catch Al but my initial efforts saw me get close at masta with a slight lift required and thus the car getting really loose just where I didn't need it. I tried a pass at the long right turn at the far end of the track and got a better exit and also a run at Al, I got alongside and then saw him spin in my mirrors- I don't think there was any contact. I had a clean run from here watching the gap behind. With a few laps to go BB took second place and on the straights was really eating into my lead I think maybe the BRM had a bit more top end. A half spin at the final turn with a lap to go and I was glad to see the flag. Well done to BB on the fastest lap again. Thanks all see you next time.

Three things - not in any way connected.
1/ Brighton & Hove Albion (my local football team) were really poor last night & looks like I would have more fun at Spa.
2/ Well done to Tony, quietly racking up the points & now 1st place in the Novice championship table.
3/ Any news on replacing Dundrod on the schedule. Don't want to download / try & learn what looks like a real beast if we are going somewhere else.
 

The Novices come first so I put the full result up there with the Ints as guest drivers. That then shows the 'whole race'. Disadvantage is that it doesn't show the relative Novice standings. Might be better the other way round. It will take me a little time to correct Al's result as I have to0 go through his race on the replay. I'm not giving you fastest lap back though ;)

Actually, I don't think I can as I can adjust your position, race time and number of laps but I am not sure I can modify qualifying or race lap times. I'll look.

 

Watch Chelsea instead ;)

Second that

Yes. I think that I will move Edmonton up one and then replace the race in a fortnight with something easier - possibly something American but I need to test a few tracks this weekend.

Let me start the lobbying then

http://gpltd.bcsims.com/display/include/pop.php?track=barber&name=Barber Motorsports Park

Barber would be new to me. Assume it has been tested elsewhere? No objections.
A few seasons ago there was a 67 race at Virginia International Raceway. Don't think there were any problems on the night but someone mentioned some sort of issue. Happy to try it out again - circa 2 minute lap in a 65 car.

Watkins Glen - with me at the wheel then!

LOL Dave.

I'll have a look at Barber Tony. VIR would be ok - don't think it is blacklisted. I was mulling over Mid Ohio or Bathurst/Panorama.

Suggestions (helpful ;))  are welcome though.

Riverside???

We could do, but it has only been a year! We only get four or five new tracks a season so I am keen to not repeat for three seasons.

Bridgehampton or Donnybrook? Not driven either but aren't they included with Can am series so shouldn't be any problems

Had a look at Barber - aaaarrrrggggghhhhh - SUPER HARD lol.

I am thinking of Keimola - that is hard but fun.

Lightweight  :P ;)

Sat here watching torrential rain obliterate the the view and thought I would offer a couple of suggestions..........

 Road Ontario is good, mostly sweeping corners but a couple of bends that focus the attention.

Mid Ohio is similar in many ways.

Bluemountain is great fun with a few blind crests that will be exciting in the 65's but might prove terminal in a 67   ::)

Lime Rock ( not the "mountain" version as that has a bug) always generated great racing, a bit like Goodwood. Simple, but a challenge to get dead right.

Charterhall Airfield where Jim Clark started his career gave us some great dices in 65's a few years ago.

If you want some slipstreaming fun in 65's try Cilce, some long straights and a series of tight bends at one end of the track.

LOLOL the rain has just got so heavy that we cannot see the sea and it is only 50yds away!!!!.....just off to get my snorkel and flippers ready  :helpsmilie:

Westwood is also good and we used it several years ago (I think Top Gear went there on one of their American adventures) should be a blast in 65's. Plenty of run off room...the only problem is that being a desert circuit the run off is sand................... ::) It pays to stay on the grey bits!.

Westwood is in Canada not America and I think TG were at Virginia IR

LOL. Yep. See how well you know me.

Westwood was (it's been gone since 1991) just northeast of Vancouver, British Columbia, in bear- and moose-infested temperate coastal rain forest. You're thinking of Willow Springs (California), I believe.

Westwood would be a good replacement for Dundrod, imo, though the GPL versions really don't impart the banking that the Carousel (T2) had (35 degrees!! :o) or the elevation changes that were there in real life (coming out of T6 onto back straight was 80 foot climb, then 120 foot drop into hairpin (T7), that usually had a river running across it, track was nicknamed Wetwood for a reason). I raced a 1986 Yamaha RZ350 (known as RD350LC YPVS in UK) there (amateur, and rather unsuccessful) in '89 and '90.

Interesting stuff Dean - I didn't know you'd a racing background outside of Sims.  Mine was a Kawa KH750, and it could hit 10K revs, amongst other things, although I didn't properly race it, as crash helmets are expensive!  If you survived at Westwood, seems to me you were a successful racer!  :o  And it has overtaking spots for 65's.

Very interesting stuff Dean. I remember Elsie well and the smell of two stroke oil.

Coincidentally Westwood is next up on the F2 schedule. Has a few challenging corners from what I can remember from a 65 race a few seasons back.

Just those 2 seasons, mid-pack on my good days (first time I wasn't lapped felt like a victory :D). Watching from the sidelines (after dropping it) was more common than I want to admit. Most dramatic moment: 105mph high-side in corner leading onto pit straight proved the quality of (and wisdom of investment in) Dainese leathers.

Aside from that, a few practice session outings at Shannonville (and just one real race, at Circuit Deux-Montagnes, north of Montreal) on racing sidecars, stepping in for injured or otherwise unavailable monkeys passengers. If you ever need an adrenaline rush, try staying on the perch at 140mph with your butt 1" from tarmac, and your hip actually scraping along ground while pulling 1.5 G through 90mph corners.

Which version should I be practicing on?

1967 version - http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=3514

Hi Paul
Can I just confirm Edmonton is the next race?
Cheers
Boggy

I think that he said Edmonton is next. I am enjoying doing some hot laps here. My favorite corner is the Brockenridge Bend.

http://www.etracksonline.co.uk/namerica/canada/edmontonspeedway.html (http://www.etracksonline.co.uk/namerica/canada/edmontonspeedway.html)   

Thanks Walter
Link is very interesting, not driven here so better start practicing
Cheers
Boggy

I'm hoping for some track time later- like boggy asked- has Edmonton been confirmed as the next circuit.  Thanks. John

yep you are right Dean!!  Unfortunately I realised my mistake ( Willow Springs vs Westwood) just as my temporary subscription to the rather expensive  Wi-Fi on the holiday site expired......Now I am at home, I can confess and plead old age and diminishing brain capacity!!.
If I can get a short snooze this pm I should be involved this evening once I find out what we are racing and where...... ::)

Definitely Edmonton next up. I'll update the track list later on tonight.

Thanks Paul

Boggy

G'day all. Greetings from Singapore airport. On my way back from 4 weeks in Oz, where I couldn't play GPL but did;
1. Walk Albert Park
2. Drove a few laps round Mt Panorama....in a wholly unsuitable Mitsubishi ASX, a 2wd wannabe all terrain piece of s**t. The drops and climbs in the twisties are bloody steep! They've also ruined the back straight with a chicane to slow em down before entering the s/f straight.
3. Also caught the final day of the FX Superbikes at what used to be called Eastern Creek in Sydney. Nice track, must see if there is a GPL version..... Good racing over 5 formulas, but essentially a factory Yamaha effort/massacre won almost everything against a field of mostly private entries (including a fat bloke in leathers that were way too big for him!!). Most disturbing was a demo race of electric bikes. 170bhp equivalent, so not slow, but really really quiet. Almost silent really. If thats the future of motor racing.......
4. And of course I went round the Marina Bay circuit today, using a mixture of Shank's Pony and tourist bus. They're still taking everything down after the recent race, and they've barely started on the s/f grandstands

Mainly i'm posting to lobby Uncle BB to put Bathurst in after Edmonton, as I'm itching to drive it now i have seen it for real...

Please please pretty please? Go on go on....

Cool. It was on the possibles list so why not. Who am I to disappoint you...

To keep Tony happy, Barber can go in next season as we could all do with some time to practice that.

The solution is just so simple!!!

Anyone of a similar age to me will tell you exactly how you make those quiet bikes sound like awesomely powerful beasts from the workshops of hell.

All you need is a couple of strips of stiff cardboard, or thin plastic, and a wooden clothes peg!!!! 
Simples  ;D :scooter:
If you need any more suggestions to solve modern technical problems ......................... ;D

I used to do that ;D (for the younger ones it doesn't work with cast wheels).

Electric bikes.  Seen them at the Isle of Man TT a couple of times.  Technically very impressive but the noise and smell is what makes motor racing what it is and it is definitely missing from these machines.

If they ever become the norm on the road they will be lethal.  Nobody will hear them coming.  I have loud cans on my road bike, people don't pull out in front of me very often ;)

Hi all
followed link to download Bathhurst, question do I need to download all files ??

Cheers

Boggy

Erm actually after having done a few laps I'd rather you didn't. It's a poor relation of the track I know and love.

Er yes. I was quite surprised... looking forward to trying the GTL version.



It is just panorama.zip that you NEED. The rest are add-ons to make the track look pretty. Won't change the driving characteristics.

Again
cheers Paul

Boggy

..don't you just love 0445 arrivals.... Still BB and Clive's posts brightened my morning, so thankyou both  ;D

Phil, what bike and cans do you have? My S1000RR is loud enough with the standard can........ no need for flappy plastic, but I occaisonally think about Akro.....

Honda VTR Firestorm 2001, so quite old now but in good condition.  I've got Carbon Can Company (http://www.exhaust-notes.com/carbon-can-company-motorcyle-exhausts.html) exhausts on (not actually carbon they are oval stainless steel) with the baffles removed.  They sound like a race can but still have BSI stamp ;D.

In the early 70's, Lotus raced a wedge shaped gas turbine F1 car.  It was easy to ignore, because it was invisible to the ear.  It was not slow, but before it could get too near the front, it's engine capacity was questioned.  How do you specify something previously unimagined?  It was quickly reclassified, and no longer viable, with no protests from spectators. :)

The STP Lotus gas turbine car was run around at the Goodwood Revival this year, so it is still out there awaiting its chance.... :shifty:

As I recall from my hazy memory, the car was fast and showed great potential, but the biggest problem they had was with the brakes. Unlike a conventional internal combustion engine and gearbox there was zero engine braking effect available, so all of the retardation fell upon the brakes which quickly overheated if pushed hard.

Maybe with modern carbon fibre discs it might have become real competition for Red Bull? lol  ::)

BTW has Cadwell Park been converted for GPL? and is it any good?

The e-bikes have become more and more impressive every year. I remember the first year and people laughed at them when they went past. They were so slow, even from the start with their full power. Now some factories have become involve the standard of bikes and really got so much better, the Honda bikes in particle are works of art.

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa302/happyal27/TT/DSC08564.jpg)

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa302/happyal27/TT/2012-06-01162732.jpg)

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa302/happyal27/TT/2012-06-01162808.jpg)

(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa302/happyal27/TT/2012-06-01161812.jpg)

Must've been a nice 'Big Screen' Tv, you got those pics. from!  And Cadwell does have a GPL version.  It's  fun to drive, and the leap past the pits is true to life.  Online, it's likely to create crashes of the non-human form, I believe, so the racing blame tends to remain, with the Ai. :P

Moderation published

Thanks Axel!

Aahh, now I understand why going sideways is so normal for you Martin!!. Those triples were RARELY ridden completely in line. Was the base for Kawasaki's KR750 GP and F1 bike that Barry Ditchburn used to ride. What a BEAST!!        :o

Agreed, solo racing is great, but you've not lived unless you've "swung in the chair" of a racing sidecar. I did a couple of seasons with one of my club mates in a GT750 powered, forward exit post-classic sidecar that was a blast. Also a couple of seasons as relief passenger in a Junior (up to 500 class) dirttrack sidecar. Similar to speedway, only the races are run anti-clockwise, and the track has 1 right turn in it. But, enormous fun dragging your left shoulder in the dirt and dropping over the front wheel of an attacking competitor to keep them behind you....No wonder I've always got along well with you Dean..... ::)