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UKGPL => UKGPL Races => Topic started by: Phil Thornton on October 15, 2013, 11:14:04 PM +0100



Title: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: Phil Thornton on October 15, 2013, 11:14:04 PM +0100
Season 25 Works Trophy, Round 7, Oulton Park

Welcome to the seventh round in the Works Trophy.  Another round in England, this time further north into the Cheshire countryside to the very pretty Oulton Park circuit that looks much nicer in real life than it does in GPL.

The circuit is built in the grounds of Oulton Estate which comrised an old manor house, some lodges, farmland and a lake.  The names of a couple of bends, Lodge Corner and Old Hall Corner, hint back at a more sedate existance.  The first race at Oulton Park was held in 1953 on a makeshift rectangular circuit which was extended in 1955 to the full circuit we will be using tonight.  The track is quite narrow and in places and the run-off is limited (particularly at Knickerbrook where a local B road skirts the boundary of the park) so to make it safer several chicanes have been added in recent years.  Thankfully we don't need to worry too much about that, so we will be able to enjoy driving the 1967 version of the track which flows majestically through tree lined avenues, up steep hills, round double apex corners and banked hairpins.  There has never been a round of the Formula 1 World Championship held at Oulton Park but there were a lot of non-championship Formula 1 races held there between 1954 and 1982.  Most of these race meetings were called the "International Gold Cup".  A name that lives on in the guise of the Gold Cup historic race meeting; a sort of Goodwood of the north.  Same races but less posh totty, and rather ironically less flat caps!

As always, we will run Pro Damage, so resets are not allowed.

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_GPG
IP address = 62.195.2.111
Race date = 20-10-2013
Race Time = race starts at 21:30 UK time
Qualifying Time = Between 30 and 60 minutes, starting no later than 21:00 UK time
Track = Oulton Park 1967 (http://www.zenadsl5531.zen.co.uk/Tracks/Oulton/)
Variant = 67F1
Damage Model = PRO
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 34)
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Replays Available here (http://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/inc_replaysS25_js.aspx)

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=401&theme=6)

The full time drivers can start to practice as soon as the server is available.  Reserve drivers can also join as soon as the server becomes available but must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes; this will allow any remaining full timers to join.  If there is enough space on the grid, the reserve drivers will be able to rejoin when there are 30 mins of qualifying left.  

Moderating The red zone will be fully moderated for lap 1 only. For this event the red zone will be from the start to Hilltop. Other moderation will be on reported incidents only.  However any incidents that occur in the red zone that are not reported by the drivers will be reported by the moderator.  This will allow all affected drivers the opportunity to present their case before the incident is moderated.  This should ensure there are no surprises when the moderator's report is published and hence appeals will be less likely.  If you haven't received a PM about an incident before the link below the results table is removed, you can be sure that you will not appear in the moderator's report.

The chassis token system is explained on the Works (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=401&theme=6) standings page. Please ensure you choose a chassis that is within your budget, which can be seen by hovering the mouse over your points total in the standings.

Please restrict chat to pit messages including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: Turkey Machine on October 17, 2013, 08:21:31 PM +0100
How the hell did Hristo get that Honda round here so fast?!?!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: EvilClive on October 18, 2013, 08:35:25 AM +0100
A question that popped into my mind at many circuits   :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: Phil Thornton on October 18, 2013, 01:51:56 PM +0100
How the hell did Hristo get that Honda round here so fast?!?!
Jethro, we were both in the race when he set those times.  I've still got my client replay (but not the server replay) so I had a look.  There are two possibilities:

Hristo brakes a bit later than me and gets the power down a little earlier.  This is probably due to the tyre temperatures.  I never seem to get my tyres into the green, Prib almost always shows them as dark blue.

OR

Hristo is a genius ::)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: EvilClive on October 18, 2013, 03:59:11 PM +0100
Don't think I have ever seen blue tyre temps  ??? mine are usually bordering on the infra red!!!!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: dave curtis on October 18, 2013, 04:38:14 PM +0100
There are two possibilities:
Hristo brakes a bit later than me and gets the power down a little earlier.  This is probably due to the tyre temperatures.  I never seem to get my tyres into the green, Prib almost always shows them as dark blue.

OR

Hristo is a genius ::)


This makes it sound like if he's not a genius  [& I'm clearly not saying that!]  then braking later/power-on earlier is cheating somehow...? :)


(Get me hanging around in the works area again!  I'll sneak away again now...)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: Phil Thornton on October 18, 2013, 06:21:47 PM +0100
This makes it sound like if he's not a genius  [& I'm clearly not saying that!]  then braking later/power-on earlier is cheating somehow...? :)
LOL, I'm not suggesting any cheating but the fact that he seems to have more grip than me might be because he is better at getting heat into the tyres than I am.  I've just done 17 laps in training mode.  It took at least 6 laps for the car to start to feel anything like grippy.  For the first couple of laps it was like driving on ice.  My tyre temps got slowly warmer until on lap 16 I managed to set a new PB.  At this point my tyre temps were still light blue:

LF
RF
O
M
I
I
M
O
206 208 209 225 225 219
LR
RR
O
M
I
I
M
O
217 219 218 214 214 211

My understanding is that 200 to 240 is optimum.  So would 240 be green???  Is Hristo running at 240?  Clive must be running a lot hotter than that ;D

I can up the tyre pressures to get more heat in the tyre but the middle will get hotter (even temperatures should mean optimum grip).  I can't seem to drive hard enough to generate enough heat (i.e. with the rear sliding about a lot like Clive and Martin) without crashing.  I'm hoping to do something so that I'm a bit more competitive this Sunday.  The Works is a tough division!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: Hristo Itchov on October 19, 2013, 09:26:13 PM +0100
I don't remember that particular race, though I remember one Oulton race where both myself and Lorenzo Galuzzi were in Honda, and he was quicker and won the race. As far as I know, 100 C (212 F) is the optimal temperature for the tyres. It seems to be the case in my experience, because anything above it seems to increase wheelspin.

I think at a track like Oulton, you gain more time by splitting the corners into two parts as much as possible - intensive braking on entry, turning the car as quickly as possible to point towards the apex, then intensive acceleration in a straighter line. This gains more time compared to smoothly drawing an arc around the corner while maintaining average speed.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: fpolicardi on October 19, 2013, 11:52:51 PM +0100
GPG server is set for 34 laps Long race and listening on Igor.
Ciao


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: Arf Arf Arf on October 20, 2013, 09:42:18 PM +0100
Arrrrgggh. What a night.

Couldn't join practice servers, couldn't start GPL. Restarted 2/3 times, no luck. Then suddenly it worked. Excellent practice gaining P3 on the grid.....nearly a second behind P2.... Made a great start off the line and held my position. Bloody engine gave up going through the dip. Sums up my season....



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: Maarten Steverink on October 20, 2013, 10:06:13 PM +0100
Screen went on energysave after i took the lead when Tristan crashed out at T2. Couldnt see anything, and crashed. Bent the suspension, and couldnt take any right turns, so i stopped :(

Great to be back though!

Maarten


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: EvilClive on October 20, 2013, 10:19:37 PM +0100
This makes it sound like if he's not a genius  [& I'm clearly not saying that!]  then braking later/power-on earlier is cheating somehow...? :)
LOL, I'm not suggesting any cheating but the fact that he seems to have more grip than me might be because he is better at getting heat into the tyres than I am.  I've just done 17 laps in training mode.  It took at least 6 laps for the car to start to feel anything like grippy.  For the first couple of laps it was like driving on ice.  My tyre temps got slowly warmer until on lap 16 I managed to set a new PB.  At this point my tyre temps were still light blue:

LF
RF
O
M
I
I
M
O
206 208 209 225 225 219
LR
RR
O
M
I
I
M
O
217 219 218 214 214 211

My understanding is that 200 to 240 is optimum.  So would 240 be green???  Is Hristo running at 240?  Clive must be running a lot hotter than that ;D

I can up the tyre pressures to get more heat in the tyre but the middle will get hotter (even temperatures should mean optimum grip).  I can't seem to drive hard enough to generate enough heat (i.e. with the rear sliding about a lot like Clive and Martin) without crashing.  I'm hoping to do something so that I'm a bit more competitive this Sunday.  The Works is a tough division!




Well........... in almost any race and any mod my problem is 99% rear tyre temps, and yes, almost certainly caused by sliding the car and using the throttle to steer. I probably do this more aggressively than most drivers and I have had to learn how to keep a car on track with dodgy rear end grip. I almost NEVER get the front tyres remotely warm, they stay in the cool blue range.

As for what constitutes the ideal temp for tyres. I seem to recall that in the little handbook that was sold along with the original Papyrus GPL CD they gave a value of 240F as an ideal target, and once you exceed 260F the grip level drops off. Plus, the further you push the temps beyond 260F the more unpredictable the behaviour of the rear tyre becomes. Until at around 300F things get stupid!!. The result is a car that will snap into oversteer mid corner or squirm uncontrollably under acceleration if the rears are cooked. If the fronts get that hot I think you can forget any hope of directional control from the steering.

I have noticed that the 65's grip levels drop off at around 200F-210F and during an online chat with a nameless developer he confirmed that there was a difference between the 67 and the 65 temperature range. If there are more variations for the other mods I do not know.

In the Oulton Race which I have just left with suspension modified so that right hand turns were a no-go option ahem!!  ::), the rears were occasionally up to +280F and the fronts were sub 190F. I find that I have to concentrate very hard to modulate the throttle and avoid wheelspin during a race to maintain my pace but also allow the tyres to recover, before I push hard again. Of course if you find yourself away and clear , it is much easier to keep things sensible. But in the heat of battle I find that the temps creep up very easily lol!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: Cookie on October 20, 2013, 10:33:37 PM +0100
I have a little text file where I collect all the tire info I  could find:
Quote
'67--261 F, 24 psi ft, 26 rear

'65--187 F, 24, 26 = 165C - 180C

'66--207 F, 26, 26

'69--261 F, 24, 26

'69X--261 F, 24, 26

'Sports Cars--261 F, 32, 32.= 220C - 220C

'P910--261 F, 28, 28 . = 193C - 193C

'67F2--261 F, 24, 26

'CanAm--261 F, 24, 24


'67--127,2 C, 24 psi ft, 26 rear

'65--86,1 F, 24, 26

'69--127,2 F, 24, 26

'Sports Cars--261 F, 32, 32.

'P910--261 F, 28, 28

'65, '67, 69, '69 Extra--24F/26R
'66--26F/26R
'67 Sports Cars--P910 28F/28R, All others 32F/32R


The '66 mod tires all use an optimum pressure of 26 psi and 207 degrees F.

The '69 and '69 Extra tires use the same optimum pressure and temps.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: Samb on October 20, 2013, 10:58:38 PM +0100
A tough race that. I was over 2 seconds off the pace in quali and down in 6th place so wasn't expecting much of a result. Managed to get off the line well and passed Bob for 5th. That became 4th after Arf had his engine detonate on the first lap. That first half of the race was really hard work. I couldn't get close enough to Ray to have a go at passing him but Bob was all over my back end and managed to overtake me into Knickerbrook. There was no time to relax though as Clive then crawled all over my gearbox. I was fortunate Oulton is such a difficult track to pass on, and managed to keep hold of 5th place. That became 3rd after Tristan and Marteen retired. Trying to catch Ray I braked too late into the first corner and was lucky to survive. At this point Clive had also fallen by the wayside and I was in a safe 3rd place, so I opted to drive steadily to the finish, conserving the engine of the Cooper. I didn't want a repeat of Valentino that's for sure.

Congrats to Ray and Bob for their podiums and to Andy and Dave for finishing. No mean feat at a track like this  :).


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: MagicArsouille on October 21, 2013, 01:06:43 PM +0100
hi :)
 I was hoping a good fight with Marteen, but I had some little lags sometimes and it's happend between t1 and t2 and that was enought to lost my line and I put my rights wheels in the grass when I had to brake for the t3 !!!!!......so I start a looooong uncontrolable spinn in the grass and finaly hit something and lost a wheel ......arrggllll !

.....see you next one .....;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: Ronniepeterson on October 21, 2013, 05:30:16 PM +0100
While others fell by the wayside I just tried to stay on track at a reasonable pace to keep Bob and Sam behind me. That was a scary 34 laps to survive and I was mighty relieved to see the chequered flag. Tough track this one as the signs are solid and unforgiving if you get too close. Grats to everyone who finished and commiserations to those who did not. See you next time at yet another unforgiving track, Montjuich!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: Turkey Machine on October 21, 2013, 06:24:39 PM +0100
So in qualifying I managed to get the Beast of Bourne slightly further up the grid than is due, and in the race I was harassing one of the Brabham crew (Dean?) that numbered 7 in that race, before I was a little distracted by a bunny chewing on something shiny and causing the flash in the corner of my eye (upon further inspection and throwing the object at said rabbit it turned out to be a cereal box from that well known corn-based manufacturer). That took my eye off the corner after Island bend and made the Beast unleash full fury against the invisible barriers that number a-plenty at Oulton. Shame, as I was just trying to keep it mainly on the black stuff and pick up from those that fell off. Ah well, yet another DNF...  :-\

Grats to Ronnie, who appears to be more consistent as races go on!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: Rainier on October 21, 2013, 09:54:06 PM +0100
Nice race and battle with Andy L.
When the leaders overlapped us, Andy made a mistake and I could overtake him for the 4th position.
Unfortunately at 9 laps of the end, I lost my concentration and waste almost 50 seconds !

If you look at the championship, the first 5 drivers are the first 5 drivers of this race !


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: Baab on October 22, 2013, 07:56:26 PM +0100
Surprised to make it to the end of this one, but at the same time annoyed to hand another race away.  After seeing the qualifying times of the first two I didn't expect much from the race, but around half distance I found myself in the lead having only overtaken Sam.  Ray was keeping me honest though and with around 8 to go I got my braking wrong into cascades and went off letting him by.  He had a small lead that I thought I'd be able to claw back, but after setting my FL I then had another couple of moments and settled for 2nd.

I acknowledge the track was tough but I was surprised to see so few finishers, only 5 out of 14 running at the end.  WD to all finishers, commiserations to my teamie Arf, a first lap engine failure when seemingly treating the car well.

See you in Montjuich, far from my fav circuit.

Bob


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 25 (2013) Works Trophy (67) - Oulton Park - Oct 20
Post by: Phil Thornton on October 31, 2013, 10:42:34 PM +0000
Moderation published.