SimRacing.org.uk

Season 25 Historic Trophy (66) - Round 9 – AVUS 1950

Welcome in Germany to the 9th round in the 66's class of UKGPL for the continuation of our twenty fifth season
AVUS means Automobil Verkehrs und Ubungs-Strasse and is located near Berlin.

Beware of the terrific Nordkurve !!!!!!

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_T7_2
IP address = 62.149.202.168
Race date = 26-11-2013
Race Time = race starts at 21:30 UK time
Qualifying Time = Between 30 and 60 minutes, starting no later than 21:00 UK time
Tracks = AVUS 1950 can be downloaded at 
http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=2729
Variant = 66
Damage Model = PRO
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 26)
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Replays Available here (http://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/inc_replaysS25_js.aspx)
Driver lists and rules can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=403&theme=6)


The full time drivers can start to practice as soon as the server is available.  Reserve drivers can also join as soon as the server becomes available but must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes; this will allow any remaining full timers to join.  If there is enough space on the grid, the reserve drivers will be able to rejoin when there are 30 mins of qualifying left. 

Please restrict chat to pit messages including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

The race will be run under PRO rules so no resets are allowed.


For THIS RACE, 3 liters car must be selected

The 3 leaders of the championship will have an HANDICAP FOR THIS RACE
Tristan BOT : group I Mclaren M2B Ford or Eagle T1G Welslake
Evil CLIVE and Dean LOGAN group I or II  Lotus 43 BRM or BRM P83

All drivers have free choice (3 liters cars only).

Full moderation of lap one red zone

LAP ONE RED ZONE: from start to the exit of the hairpin ‘Südkehre’.

I thought that this would be a straightforward circuit to learn, after all there are just what is there to learn?? 2 straights and 2 corners!!!

But after 15 mins of practice I am beginning to realise that this is a track where tenths of a second around the corners gains a bucket load of time on the straight...and that ruddy banked bend is driving me nuts!!  lol
I just hope I get some time for serious practice before Tuesday, of this might be a very short race for me   :-\

Clive is dead right. If you get the entry to the NordKurve banking just right (it takes rare skill and I've only managed it few times) you get a nice aerial view of post war Berlin and a chance to drive round the parking lot. Assuming your wheels haven't fallen off on landing... More Luftwaffe than Lights...

Can't get anywhere near sub-2mins (2.03 is the best with a top speed (untowed) of 187mph). I am sure there is more to be had but it is very hard to set it up like a bullet that goes round corners!

BTW worth noting that there is a ditch at the bottom of the banking - very hard to get out of. Could be a lot of casualties tomorrow.

I have discovered the ditch and its desire to retain whatever falls into its grasp, but not yet enjoyed the delights of an aerial view of Berlin.....maybe this evening....I wonder if they have their Christmas lights turned on?  ::)

Can't say I noticed  ;D

i come and play if thats ok, i have voted.

that ruddy corner, the exit (not that ive seen it very often) is just stupidly hard as well.

You are in Gareth. Good luck.

I will set a test race in a few minutes on Avus track !

hi
.....my handicap is realy hard on this track who are only for high speed... :-\....after the test of this evening, I'm shure to don't fight even for podium....... :'(

I wouldn't be so sure Tris. The tow makes a MASSIVE difference and so does the ability to hold it in the corners at high speed. I am pulling 197mph with tow now but that just means I crash at either corner.... I predict that the race may not be that packed at the end. If everyone does cautious, the speed handicap might not be too bad.

Without tow, max speed of my Cooper was 294 km-h; and with tow (thanks Gareth) it was 306-307 km-h.
and 4 seconds less on a lap. 

What happened to the practice server?

Not sure - we had a play and it went...

Quick race we had showed that there will almost certainly be incidents at the two hairpins first time round.

Would have been nice to make the hairpin  ::)

Would have been nice to survive the start  :(

Very short and miserable race,when I went to see the replay I could not believe.Again with Andreas,my victim.I know that to apologize is like a joke but beleve me i have not targeted to you.
Is clear that in the fast track with sudden braking i do disasters.

Race looked like I could just stay with Clive and Gareth (sorry for tap at first hairpin, very happy to see you continue, tho GPLRA says you took damage) if I could just keep it clean. Unfortunately, my Lotus with that great lump in the back had other plans.

Spin in Nordkerhe lap 2 was followed by flick-launch off the banking lap 3. Loss of 3 wheels and engine explosion precluded my further participation.

LOL Ronnie - it was you that took me out! You weren't fully in control I suspect ;)

Didn't get much chance to practice so when I started qually my car was bottoming badly on full tanks around the banking.  I was showering David with plenty of sparks!  After a bit of tweaking I got the ride height OK just in time for the race.

I got a fantastic start, picking up a couple of places off the line and managed to get into the slip stream of the leading bunch  :thumbup1:

Then at turn 1, I got punted up the rear and pushed off behind the concrete wall.  :wetfish: I drove all the way around the outside only to find it was a dead end.  There was no room to turn around so I had to put F10 view on and reverse all the way back round.  By then I'd lost a massive amount of time and I thought my chances of catching anyone was remote.  However I decided to press on and see what I could do.

As people dropped out I gradually moved up the leaderboard.  I managed to catch Dave Curtis and after a couple of frantic laps swapping places I managed to pull a gap and started to chase after David Rainier.  I was over 30 seconds behind but I was gaining by about 2 seconds a lap so I had a mathematical chance of catching him if I didn't make any mistakes.  With 3 laps to go I was on David's gearbox but catching him and passing him were 2 different things.  I could get past on the straight but David slotted into my slip stream and re-passed me.  David was awesome on the fast right hander at the end of the back straight and that allowed him to be first onto the banking on the last lap and I couldn't repass him before the line. 

I expected this race to be a bit boring.  Just 2 corners and a stretch of dual carriageway but it was fun! ;D

Same here!   It looks as if you can just squeeze through at the end, but no!
However, when I reversed back was promptly marked as DQ.

Was otherwise happy to have survived.  Unfortunately half the grid disappeared early;  another lonely race.  Did hope that I could hang onto Phil to maybe help bring that big gap down,  but not to be.     Did find that every time I span  (yeah - race fuel on the banking) it seemed to lose me half a mile.

Was a bit tedious at the end,   but surprising how short those straights become after 15 laps or so.

Cheers all.
Dave.

`

I was fully in control until a four wheel off track failed overtake attempt from behind. I hope the culprit is dealt with this season ::) ::)

A quick run on the practice server confirmed my worst fears. The Fezzas were very fast and although I could gear my car to keep with them using slipstream, there was no chance of passing because as soon as I moved out from behind I lost 5mph and simply lost ground.

With slipstream I saw a max of 200mph, without slipstream I could just hit 184mph...a huge difference!!

So I took a gamble and got sneaky with the gear ratios. I set 6th gear ( in the Lotus BRM) extra high so that I could run at 200mph and not max out the revs, but without slipstream 6th would only yield 180mph because the revs dropped too low. So I set all the other gears one notch higher and without slipstream I could run 5th up to 184mph. The plan was to get myself behind a fast Fezza and stick with him until the last lap ;)

All worked well from the start and I found myself in a 3 car group with Gareth ( very very fast in his red machine!) and a quick Dean in his Lotus BRM. There was no point in trying to blast away from the start as slipstream would simply pull other cars up to you, but I was concerned about what might happen at T1 lap 1 when everyone arrived on full tanks with cold over inflated tyres.....would they all be ultra careful??
I guess I was just plain lucky as I had no control over what others might do. Dean slipped past under braking but found a Ferrari gearbox blocking his way and in my mirrors I could see a few cars "out of shape" just before I turned. The second straight was good as I settled in behind Gareth and we pulled away. Dean was fortunate enough to still be just within slipstream range and rejoined our trio, but we had already dropped the rest of the field a long way back.
My plan now was just to sit there and stay safe  ;)
I was ultra cautious entering the banking on each lap, but that Fezza in front had it nailed and would pull out a good 50mtrs each time, although I would be drafted back to him on the next straight  ;D. Then Dean had an excursion on the banking and discovered that Colin Chapman had not quite perfected his reverse ground effect aerodynamics in 1966.
So that left Gareth and myself alone and 500mtrs clear.....all I had to do was stick behind and enjoy the ride, until a half spin at T1 lost me a vital 250 mtrs and the Fezza was gone!!! Without slipstream I had zero chance of catching up unless he made an error. Like wise I knew that David Ranier who was now in 3rd would not be able to catch me if I kept it clean.
So the rest of the race was spent using the "5th gear option" on the straights and being very careful with brakes and corners.
A very, very lonely race with only prib and the sound of cars passing me on the opposite straight for company.

Big grats to Gareth on a dominant race with no mistakes and to Phil and David for their battle at the end of the race. Commiserations to all of those who dropped out and hard luck on Tristan being stuck with the Eagle on a track like this...that was never going to be fun.

Thank you Clive.
I had a similar idea with the gears. I geared 4th for 190mph and 5th 500 revs taller just for streaming. Driving in a straight line for an hour is surprisingly hard, I found my mind wandering and a few times I forgot which straight I was going down. The one prob with that car and the setup I had was the braking zone into hairpin was like ice and I just could not get it to stop. I was thinking of taking the Lotus (I had practiced with both) but when every man and his dog was in a fezza I thought sod it.

Grats to finishers.

Very, very short race here. Now that I watched the replay myself, I cannot believe it, too. What are you doing again. Can´t you just for once be careful in the braking zone for the very first corner? Cold tyres, full fuel-load and everything... I am speechless. May you have to contact Grosjean and ask him what he changed from last season to this one.
 

I have suggested to Francesco, he come to a practice Server before the big races.  It was obvious trouble would be waiting.  But there's also trouble for some, finding the time to do this. :(

.....no comment on my race where I was not compétitive at all ( tow is good when you can catch it !....I lost around 200m on the cooper at the exit of the first hairpin.....and the banking is juste .......incomprehensible to me !.....I try many setup options , but the résult was allway the same , I lost the car but I don't know why !.....a mystery !.....
I maybe loose the champ on this race  :/ .......well, it's just fun !

David , please let us know whitch car I(we) can drive in Mosport as soon as posssible ......thx mate !

  c u for the last one :)

Tristan,
according to the rules, Evil Clive will be restricted to Group I cars and you will be restricted to Group I or II cars (same for me).
2 liters cars only could be selected.
and the track will be the very known MOSPORT !


About the Avus race, the first objective was to survive at the 1st hairpin...

Then I had some pleasant laps until Tristan had to retire.
After that the race was boring as I was driving alone on these 2 long straights, my Cooper was very slow and Phil was gaining 2 seconds a lap.
I tried to go quicker and quicker and made a mistake on the banking, I was ejected from the other side ...but I could rejoin the track without trouble!
The 3 or 4 last laps were very exciting with a funny battle vs Phil.
I knew I had to enter first on the right turn just before the banking to win. So I wait several seconds before taking Phil's slipstream  on the last back straight in such a way he was not able to repass me before that right turn.

Sorry Ronnie... I think I am more or less guilty !
You were so slow at the start, and I tried to not rearend your car, so I overtook on the left ...(because there were several cars overtaking you on the right)
There is no real contact but the 2 cars were very close and the crashbox sent you again the wall :(   

Although some comments here have been directed in Fran's direction, he is not alone in letting ambition overcome braking efficiency at T1. I find it strange that drivers do not "think" about it more. When a pack of cars thunders towards T1 on Lap1 there are bound to be cars at the front that cannot take the perfect line into the corner and as a result ( no matter how good they are!) they are forced to brake early. That means that the car behind them has to brake sooner , and so on down through the pack.
Add to that situation, the one car at the front that starts to squirm around with smoking tyres fighting to keep control and it is a sure thing that the 2 or 3 cars behind will back off early and give him more room.
So, unless you are on the front row of the grid you cannot possibly expect to go into T1 at racing speed!! Just ask any modern F1 driver!!

I have to say that my biggest fear for this race was T1, Lap 1.  After that it was just surviving that banking!!!

Was it really worth trying to qualify somewhere near the front of the grid and then be forced to hold my breath in the braking zone, just waiting to be collected by a missile from behind....

or.....

start from the pit lane and hope to pick your way through the pile of broken cars at T1. Then hope to catch the leading group over the next few laps.

At a track like Avus there is absolutely ZERO advantage in demon braking into T1 Lap 1 just to gain 25- 50 mtrs. Any car, even Tristan's Eagle, will pull that back with slipstream on the return straight. It is far better to go into the corner gently and under full control, so that you can get a smooth exit and accelerate up to max speed as fast as possible.
As David proved, this race was not about the first 25 laps, but only about the last straight into the banking on lap 26. Whoever led into the banking on lap 26 would win.  If there I had been able to stay with Gareth for the whole race I would not have attempted to pass him anywhere, there would be no point. I would have concentrated all my efforts on working out a way to slingshot past that ruddy fast Fezza into the banking on the final lap. As it happened I threw away any chance of doing that after I made a small mistake and dropped too far behind to use the draft.

Martin is right that not everyone has the opportunity to do a lot of practice on the server, but even in qually for the race there is ample opportunity to find your braking marker on full fuel and cold tyres during an "out" lap. I do this sort of thing on EVERY out lap during qually to get my markers for all corners on cold tyres. As things warm up and the race develops I might decide that I can delay braking for another 25mtrs but that is gradual progression as the tyres warm up and the fuel load goes down.

For me, it was the blue posts on the right hand side. I knew that I could brake later if I was forced to, but I also knew that braking from the blue post allowed me a smooth and controlled entry (and exit) to T1 and also at the end of the second straight another blue post signalled the point at which I dropped a gear for the right hand flick towards the banking.

OK so the banking was whole new challenge, but once again, better to enter slowly and be sure to survive than try and hit it at 150mph, only to find that you do not see the start finish straight opening up before you but instead you get a close up of the car park tarmac??

You are right Andreas and after seeing the replay i was disappointed to realize that, again another time,the car involved was your car.
The disaster was by that time done but my hope was that the car involved was not the yours.I'm not the only one that create problem in the red zone ,also in other Trophy there are incident at the start.I race also in the Professional and i'm the slowest but as a result of this incident i'm not the last but the 5th in ranking.
I hope that you can admit that ,this kind of incident, was done by me in 2 very fast track:Avus and Dessau.When i 'm involved in the slipstream at start i forgot to look the breaking point,this is my error and not what Martin says in hes post.Is true that i have done my training on the wrong track,was on the version 1959short and the demonstration is given by the number of qualification laps done before to have one time in the starting grid.I had to discover again the new breaking point!
At this point i'm sorry for what happen but   more than this i can do no other.
I hope that you agree that this incidents are the result of the case and not something against you.
I understand also your disappointment in this moment but i hope that the relations between us remain good.

Francesco

No problem Dave and I'm certainly not pressing any charges. Tall first gear had me crawling away from the line , sorry.

All in all the earth will not stop turning around because of this.  :) So we gotta look forward and our relationship will still be good!
Andreas
 

Thank you Andreas,you are a nice person.

P.S I will try to contact Lotus and Grosjean ,but this team is not friendly with people of my city like Valsecchi. :)

Moderation published.

Dave (Curtis), I did not take into account your remark about your disqualification because it will change nothing for your final 5th position.
Do you agree ?