SimRacing.org.uk

This is a new track to UKGPL and we would like to run a round of the Graduates on it. This is just a stability test.

So, Borovaya, a real track near Minsk in Belarus.

The Short Minsk Ring was opened in 1962. The circuit is situated northeast of Minsk, near Skopishe-second village. On a map the track resembled a triangle; two south sides went along old Zaslavskoe highway, which turned to the south near the village, and the north side ran along a new post-war section of this highway. The length of the track was 2850 meters. The track doesn't have any fences or walls around it, but some areas are marked by wooden landmarks or piles of tires.

Borovaya is located in a hilly region, so the track has huge altitude differences for a such short length – around 18 meters!

This race is just for fun so no passwords or modding. Invite you non-UKGPL mates as well. Just a warm up for Sunday night. Unlimited Shift-R with no Stop n Go BUT we do expect gentlemanly behaviour!

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL3
Race date = Tuesday 07-01-2014
Time = 21:00 UK time (21:00 GMT)
Track = Borovaya (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Tracks/Borovaya)
Race length = 30 Laps
Variant = 1967
Damage Model = Intermediate
Qualifying time = 30 minutes

There is a corner that is tempting to run wide on the exit. Should I practice keeping at least two wheels on the "track?" or is it acceptable to run wide here? Thanks in advance, WC

On a separate note, I have already crashed enough in the braking zone for turn 4 to make me decide to turn the damage off while I make set-up changes to the car.

You can run as wide as you like but if all four wheels go off the grey stuff then you are re-joining. Two wheels on is just fine. Which corner are you talking about? The king down the back straight?

Will show up, have ran a few laps just ago. Between T2 and T3 there's some extra asphalt, and it's beneficial in order to run faster through T2 and T3. Even when you're not aiming to use it, you will, on purpose or not :P

Also the tires on the sides of the track are very gluey, you'll get stuck in a minute there.

Was going to give this one a miss but after sorting out a set-up for the Santa v Elves race I thought I'd download Borovaya.
Out of interest I tried the Cooper - not something I drive regularly & really struggled. Experiment over - back to Brabham machinery. Worked out the brake points etc & finally put in a 1.23. Is that reasonable? Don't mind being at the back but don't want to be miserably off the pace?


  

LOL - I was quite pleased with my 1:24 in the Brabham....

Just tried again and couldn't better a 1:26... :(

A racepace of 1m20-1m25 would be respectable IMO, when you run consistently in a bracket, also depending on your chassis. Did some laps in the Ferrari with a Glen setup and ran a few 21s, but I guess there's more to come. Looks like a tricky track where you can easily overshoot the braking and corners and then get stuck in the tires. Not sure yet if I take the Ferrari, the Brabham or the Cooper. ;)

How the hell do you do a 1:21? What are the splits... I am not making any mistakes and only just holding it on the corners and I am struggling to better 1:26. I know that I am probably braking too late and missing the apexes but even so... sheesh.  ::)

Sorry Paul, was my first encounter with this track yesterday and didn't save replay. Just focus on your exit speed, it isn't important to brake that late or enter the corner (too) fast. Hit the apex' (early) and try to get on the throttle as soon as possible, but be smooth and focus on your lines.

I'll do more testing here tomorrow and will upload a replay lap (and a setup) if it helps. ;)

Went to the Brabham, and made some tweaks to the setup. Adjust steering lock, brakebias and diff settings to your own liking. Never use 1st gear in the brab. Start in 2nd, and slow corners in 2nd. Plenty torque so shortshift to prevent wheelspin. Be really gentle on the throttle and braking. My tires weren't even green in my fast lap.

Track has got a rhythm to it, but it's tight and bumpy, you run wide between t2-t3, and little mistakes will glue you to the tires at the sides of the track...also can't get heat in the tires so handling stays slippery...TBH I'm not too fond of it eyeing leagueracing, but that's why we are testing it tomorrow I guess...;)

http://www.simracing.nl/uploads/RobertFleurke/rf_borovaya_7924_brab.zip

PS: how do I attach files in this forum, or can't we?

Yes I am with you, this track seems technically ok but its boring for 67s F1, maybe better for F2. It's like the Norisring... 

No direct upload possible here, sorry!

This track is madness for 67s. It will be carnage, and a moderator's nightmare!! It is too tight, T1 will be an overbraking nightmare, and there appear to be too many different ways of getting through it which will also cause chaos  ;D

I don't think anyone using the extra tarmac will 'rejoin' on top of someone, because of the speed advantage you get, but surely it is illegal to use it (4 wheels over the line) every lap?

The way I see it is they did put that asphalt for a reason, i.e. approaching t2-t3 as one long sweeping corner. The trackmakers knew ppl would run wide there. If it wasn't meant to be used they should have put an armco or tires to mark the side of the track. To me it's almost impossible to stay with 2 left tires to the left of the white line that marks the "legal" track, t2 tightens that much. It happens now and then but mostly 4 tires over the white line. You don't cut the track, you use more meters, however you prolly gain a few tenths.

According the rules it's prolly illegal, using parts that don't define the track (4 tires over white line). But if it was up to me, I would declare the extra asphalt legal to save trouble...ppl will simply run wide most of the times...

Robert. I don't disagree with your thoughts**, but ...
1. The white line was put there for a reason
2. If the 'run off' area wasn't there, you'd have no choice but to take the corner 'properly'
3. ** one disagreement. This is a track made out of real roads. The run off area wasn't 'put there', it was already there and they chose not to use it.

In my experience it is really difficult to keep 2 wheels legal, but it can be done (and with a 1:20 laptime), but to do it consistently....no chance, esp if someone is chasing you and you want to keep them behind....as I said, this will be a moderation nightmare.....

I downloaded the track just yesterday and took my Cooper out for a look-see.  Quite a nice layout and I enjoyed it.  Over about a dozen laps, managed a mid-22 lap time.  I'll try to make the show tomorrow.

Edit: As I left the page for this event, I noticed that it was listed as the 'Smaller Minsk Ring'.  So...  Is there a bigger one?  :)

I can tell you the track builder is working on a track from a different country ATM, so if a larger one was used, we won't be driving it anytime soon.  We also won't be seeing any of those unfriendly tyres, with this next one. :o

EDIT :  Hmm . . . maybe the chappy below is using the long version?

Just tried this circuit offline and it is fun. So, thought I might join a few of the guys on UKGPL8 as the server was available.

The server showed as n/a ?? , but I tried to join anyway only to receive the message "you cannot join the server if the track is not loaded".........but it IS loaded I had just done 5-6 laps on it???

Suggestions answers on a postcard please.............................. :-\

Online I have FPS drops at this track, whatever graphical settings, alone at the track or not. I don't have them offline with max settings. Unraceable for me online, too shaky at key points...  :-\

Tried a race with 19 AI cars, had the same effect, so it's my old low end system...might compress .dat file myself making a light version but not sure about that yet...

That's a shame Robert, I'm not seeing this problem. Didn't check my FPS rate, but it looked fine. Maybe it'll be OK tomorrow...

Not sure that this track will suit the F1s but it is in the list so we would like a test. The race won't be moderated but the real ones will be.

I still have no idea how you guys are doing a 1:20... maybe I have the longer version and you all have the shorter...

It is actually quite confusing as it is described as the Shorter Ring for GPL but the length indicates that it is the full Borovaya track.

It IS tight though and I am not sure where the overtakes are going to be made - T1 outbraking at 190mph anyone?

As for T4, the speed difference by leaving the track is nearly a second so I can't see how you would rejoin on top of somebody. It isn't corner cutting but I think we will have to be pragmatic with this track as with some others where the 'natural' line takes you outside the designated track.

I'll have to own up and say it was me that suggested this track.  I wanted a good mix for season 26.  Nurburgring and Solitude are long tracks.  Monza, Mexico and Zeltweg have some quick corners.  Brands, Mosport and Snetterton have some medium speed corners.  Albi has long straights but some slow corners.  I think Borovaya is a bit like Albi which is why I suggested it.  If it isn't popular or there are on-line issues we can change the schedule for another short circuit.  We don't have long breaks between seasons so there isn't much time to test new circuits.  Having said that there are not many "real" tracks we haven't tried. 

There is an upload area on UKGPL3 here (ftp://ftp:ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Clips). But you would need to use anonymous FTP on Port 21. You can add files but only I can delete them or create sub-directories.

I'm down to 119.4 now, just 0.2 secs behind Robert. And i did that with no tow and kept 2 tyres legal between T2/3


I thought we were talking about the big slab of tarmac to the right of the white line between T2 and T3. You appear to be referring to the approach to the second right hander as you exit the first? You can get the LHS over, but I don't think you can get the whole car over the lines there. Every time I've got close to doing that my tyres got bogged down.

Offline I have done 1:20's in the Waza...(on line , no luck at all.)

Hope things work for me tonight as this track could be fun.

Paul, one thing I quickly discovered is that you need to be very tidy with your lines through the corner and be sure that you don't "overdrive" the track. T1 is easy to get sucked in with demon braking and make a complete balls up of it, compromising the approach and the exit.....that will easily lose you 3-4 secs as you will be slower all the way down that 2nd straight. Same applies for the exit out of the final corner, getting the power down and a smooth exit carries speed all the way down that long S/F straight......again a couple of seconds available if you get it right.

 

Thats a good point Clive. I was rear ended a couple of times at the last corner in praccy races. I slow earlier than others, in order to get a better exit that allows higher speed along the incredibly long straight.

My best lap is in the 1:24's with the Brabham. I am a rookie so I'll be happy if I can avoid having an accident and finish the race.

Regarding the exit of turn 2, I'll try to keep 2 wheels on track. The corner reminds me of Blanchimont. EDIT: I just read Billy's post below. I'll follow everyone else's lead (hopefully not into the Armco though).

Clive,
I was able to join Borovaya on Cookie’s practice server last night. Far be it for me to give people advice on how computers work, but deleting the track from your “Tracks” folder & reinstalling would be worth a try.

Phil,
Subject to the test race getting a clean bill of health I don’t see any reason not to include this on the schedule for Season 26. The long straight down to the hairpin at T1 is likely to mean that there will be some sort on Lap 1 incident – but not really that much different to Montjuich.

Everyone,
Can I suggest that – for the purposes of this race at least – that we allow full use of the piece of tarmac between Turns 2 & 3? Perhaps the white line is there because it is the public road marking? It doesn’t feel like that should naturally be the edge of the track & difficult to tell from inside the cockpit at what point you have four rather than two wheels outside. Same applies for the edge between T3 & T4 – although I find keeping inside the line is better.

Clive, as you remember I had this Igor related bug too and only a complete new GPL install did help!

But an IP connect did allways work!

Pick the IP out of the IGOR server details and start GPL multiplayer...

OK, I have gotten Gaus' (trackmaker) permission to release a lighter version of Borovaya for ppl on older low end systems. I went to work, I worked with Winmip a lot back in the IndyCar Racing 2 days...

I have resized mips/srb's within 256x256 where needed, keeping sub-im., type and mapp. correctly or close to original. Only with horizontal and sky mips I did set sub-im.=0

Didn't change anything, only compressed .dat file to 25M and added a few lines at the end of readme.txt and compiled it all in a trackinstaller. Will use it tonight and if it goes well, I will upload it to UKGPL3 afterwards, and post it at SRMZ for other users who suffer from FPS drops at this track.

Finished the track up removing the last mistakes and compiled an installer, seems to work well online :)

Cheers :)

this is a funny one. I manage to get down to 1.23 using the 'eyes closed and hope' method. There is a very strong cross wind at the braking point for t1, I didn't know that could be done  ???.
on the far right I just get pushed left into the middle of the track, should make for some fun

Modded a Monza setup (flipping the cambers), and got to the 1:20/1:19 boundary in the Lotus (but got too much load on PC at practice race start. Lost a lap). Fun track! As stated, you really have to concentrate on the exits and not overdrive. Sticky tyre sections are tight! I think the camber around 0.25/-0.25 with 20 psi might be good, and possibly I was getting scraping on the ground with the minimum ride heights and bump stops, making steering hard on the long straight (or it's slightly bumpy).

Would love to race but cannot - have fun tonight!  :)

Rob - nice job making a light version and fixing it up!

Thanks, it's 1:1 to the original only some less detailed mips/srb's. Had to fix a few own mistakes in the mip/srb settings. Anyway, it doesn't seem to help me online. Even at lower resolution/turning down graphics detail I keep having FPS drops and shaky screen...I'm appalled all this work and effort has helped me nothing.

Maybe the lighter version is an idea for dedicated servers, and I think it still saves a few FPS in a AI race with 19 cars for lower end systems. But online I'm at a loss so far...

Have installed standard cars now with 2D wheels and helmets, maybe it helps...

This track is a f****g farce

Still having the same problems, FPS drops, shaky screen, makes it hard to go fast and consistant, pretty much unraceble. Tried, but after 12 laps I decided to retire. Was a messy race up to that point...

Already have light version of Brands67 where I have a history of FPS drops...fingers crossed  :-\

too many mistakes and blown engines. gave up after 4/5 resets. carnage everywhere.

Nice size grid! I sat in the iGOR chat room and watched the server fill up. Probably better that I let someone else race this time. I'm looking forward to the season opener on Sunday.

Well, thanks for the test event!   I had stripped down my shifter this afternoon to investigate my 2nd gear going to either 2nd/4th/neutral issue;  this event was just the ticket to give my 'handiwork' some punishment.

Unfortunately,  that's what I also did to that poor Ferrari.


Back to the event itself,  no FPS/stuttering issues or disco for me,  although getting a DQ in qually put me way at the back come the start & I then pretty much didn't see many other cars at once.


If you have the time (& the inclination to go back!)  I can recommend driving around the building complex & investigating the slippery slope with the magic glass walls just past the hairpin.  Very picturesque.

Cheers all,
Dave.

Personally I didn't find the track too bad - requires lots of concentration & discipline on the barking points. I suspect passing is difficult but I'm not fast enough for that to be an issue. Got my lap times down to a passable 1.22.
Might be better to suited to 65 Mod or F2 but I would have no objection to a 67 race here.
Quallifying was busy & took a while to get a clean fling lap, Sorry to Jethro - at the end of qually I was parking on the main straight & stupidly drifted to the wrong side of the track.
 

Mark Jones' Rocketship (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NC39IKZwL0&)

BTW congrats Tommy and podium, and well done finishers! ;)

Ahh, fame at last.  LOFL!!  Nicely done, Robert.


It's a pretty nice track.  I'm not overly fond of the hedge I understeered into on lap 2 that caused a real mess for those following cars - sorry to youse guys (especially Robert).  But apart from that, the track seems solid and I think you can race on it.  Congrats to Tommy and commiserations to Axel.

After a last minute dash to get back from work in time, install the track and get my wheel to work right, I only had a handfull of laps left to create a setup, learn the track and set a decent quali time. I only succeeded in the first so I had to start from the back of the grid hoping to keep it on the track in the race. At the first corner there was carnage unlike anything I've seen yet except perhaps Monza pickup races, and I had to wait a good two or three seconds before continuing, but left the scene unscathed. I was overtaking stricken cars left and right until at the end of lap three, the track was completely blocked and I couldn't avoid Doni any more and gave him a nudge. The person behind me did exactly the same, and I found my car pointing in the right direction still so I popped the clutch and I was in 4th :D . I was still learning the track so after a while Pedro caught up to me and passed me. I tried following him until we found the two Ferrari's of Dave and Andreas locked in a battle. I was able to overtake Andreas after a few laps and Dave made a mistake so I was 3rd, which became second after Pedro disappeared. Cookie was a good 15 seconds in front and with Mark coming ever closer, I was hoping to just hang on when with a lap to go, I was suddenly on the tail of a recovering Lotus. Not quite realising it was Axel, I was in a hurry to overtake as Mark was hot on my tail. I outbraked the Lotus going into T1 and it was then the realisation set in it might be Axel and I was fighting for the lead! Couple of corners later the finishflagman arrived and I was P1 :D.

Bad luck to Cookie and also to Mark, who was much faster than me but had a couple of incidents holding him back. This was a fun race, hope it's retained on the schedule even if it is a bit tight.

Well after my short rant last night, let me try and be more forthcoming..

This was a stability test, and I think the track seems stable enough. I know Robert has FPS drop, and he might not be alone. All I noticed was that my lag bar was quite a bit higher than it ususally is, and stayed there for the whole race. Initially I thought it was causing me to put in higher lap times than I was used to getting, but right at the death I managed to get the pole I thought I had a chance of, so I'm not overly concerned with the lag.

Still concerned with the track though. Being on pole and getting good getaway I only became aware that there had been an incident at T1 when I fell off the track at T4 on L1, and was able to rejoin without any major issues. However over the course of the race the last two corners ruined it for me. Time and again I fell foul of someone else's issue at the second last corner and having no where to go (or the person behind hitting me if I managed to stop), and I got taken out at the last corner a couple of times. T4 is also difficult, and I made up lots of places as I watched others do what I did on L1...and I also misjudged my braking once and rear ended someone - apols whoever you are. I finished L1 in P5 and just kept going backwards. After my 3rd reset I just couldn't be bothered anymore.

At the end of the day this track is no tighter than e.g. Monaco. Maybe because it's relatively unfamiliar that we have so many issues. There are a few different ways of getting through T1/T4/last T, and maybe this will settle down in time. In the meantime I won't look forward to returning here, and I suspect I'll take the zero-token BRM if we do....

I found the track quite satisfactory.  It was only my driving that was under par.  :)

I'd have no reservations about having this circuit on the schedule.  In fact, I quite like the layout and flow(?).

Seems to be a bit of a Marmite track. From my POV last night's test was perfect. Full grid, couldn't join, had to watch telly and had an excuse to keep the kids off the 'net "I AM HOSTING A RACE HERE!!!!"  ;D

Good old Rocketships!  :laugh:

Despite my problems racing online here, whatever version, resolution or graphical settings, I have released my Borovaya light version (it's also in my Rocketship video), because it helps offline and is an idea for dedicated servers and older lower end systems.

I have posted it in the SRMZ Borovaya thread (http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=8846&st=60&gopid=96247&#entry96247) and did upload at UKGPL3 Clips area.

Feel free to try and to give feedback.

I had massive framedrops and stutters in the T3-4-5 section when there was traffic on the long straight wich you can see there.
I know that such a situation can cause problems (like in Monthlery), and this can be minimized by reducing the drawing distance (?)

I was lucky to have only low traffic the whole race, but this stupid engine exploded in the penultimate lap when I was in a save lead just controlling the distance...

There are 2 things at work, making our computers more busy, if the t3 & t4, extra viewing area :) is the problem spot.  There is first the graphics texture size, which has been reduced by our new engineer.  :angel: If you move the detail slider to less detail, this also helps make less of the same work.  But draw distance is different - a special program is needed to change it.  If it's changed, there will then be a strange gap where the see though area is not seen - unrealistic, but some unseen track would also disappear, and this would help.  But there may also be a 3rd, 4th, and a fifth cause for Simming more slowly.

GPL tracks are complicated creatures. :D