SimRacing.org.uk

Season 26 Professionals Trophy, Round 1, Zolder

Welcome to Season 26 and the opening round of the Professionals Trophy for the 1965 Grand Prix cars.

We start in Belgium with a fine track from Ginetto's prolific studio - Zolder. Zolder was built in 1963 but it didn't host the Belgian Grand Prix until 1973.  Zolder hosted the Formula One Belgian Grand Prix on 10 separate occasions in the 1970s and 1980s.  But when Spa Franchorchamps was significantly revised and the safety standards vastly improved the Grand Prix returned to it's original home and Zolder fell out of favour.

Drivers are asked to select a chassis which they will use for the ENTIRE season.

Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL8
IP address = tbc
Race date = 21-01-2014
Race Time = race starts at 21:30 UK time
Qualifying Time = Between 30 and 60 minutes, starting no later than 21:00 UK time
Track = Zolder (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Tracks/Zolder67/)
Variant = 65F1 - the 2.02 Release of the 65mod should be used
Damage Model = PRO
Race length = 50 minutes (laps 30)
Password: see above (#post_event_password)

65 Patch: The 2.02 Release of the 65mod can and should be used. You need a working installation of the 65 mod to install the 2.02 Update. All the 65 Mod files can be found here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Mods/1965)

Replays Available here (http://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/inc_replaysS26_js.aspx)

Driver lists and series rules can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=430&theme=6).

The full time drivers can start to practice as soon as the server is available.  Reserve drivers can also join as soon as the server becomes available but must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes; this will allow any remaining full timers to join.  If there is enough space on the grid, the reserve drivers will be able to rejoin when there are 30 mins of qualifying left.  

Please restrict chat to pit messages including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

Moderating The red zone will be fully moderated for lap 1 only. For this event the red zone will be the first lap up to and including Butte corner.

Other moderation will be on reported incidents only.  However any incidents that occur in the red zone that are not reported by the drivers will be reported by the moderator.  This will allow all affected drivers the opportunity to present their case before the incident is moderated.  This should ensure there are no surprises when the moderator's report is published and hence appeals will be less likely.  If you haven't received a PM about an incident before the link below the results table is removed, you can be sure that you will not appear in the moderator's report.

Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Mods

I'm sure you will get round to this anyway, but I have registered for this series, haven't been activated yet.

Cheers

Arf

Sorry - all done now.

Late entry  :)

I drove 200 yards to the, now almost inevitable, t1 l1 scrap yard and I thought I was going to avoid it all but the crash box decided that I needed some air time.
Glad I didn't put in a lot of practice. see ya at the next one

Sadly, I did put in a bit of practice, all for nothing. It looks like Jethro and Natan had a coming together, which from my own replay looks like Jethro suddenly warped back 10 metres and gave Natan no chance. I had to go left to avoid the spinning cars, which were warping so badly I couldn't tell where they were...and that meant I clipped Doni, which doesn't seem to have affected him too badly, but sent me into the fence - spent a minute or two trying to get out, but when the pack came round to start L2 I gave up.

All I have to say of the start is this: what the hell happened?! I was braking for T1 and I find myself involved in the biggest scrapheap of F1 bits since Spa 1998...

It would appear the server has issues with starts under load, as the latency spiked very badly, but was fine with people spread out a bit later.

As for what happened after this, I tried to stay out of trouble, but the engine popped on lap 7 on the run down to the hairpin, and Dean hadn't realised in time as I attempted to stay on the same line. Sincere apologies for screwing that up. :(

I think the spike was just too much for my ISP. AS the engine revs rose for the start all the lights on my router started flashing, they are normally solid and the latency bars went into hyperspace. I think I moved 10 mtrs before someone turned the lights out and it was all over  :(

 A shame really, because I had decided to run the BRM for this season, a car that I have rarely driven but it seems to have some good points  ;D

I did realise (saw the flying bits o' engine), had barely enough time to try going inside, and would have made it but you went sideways right in front of me. :(

(http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y314/Didymus_Much/21012014lap6_zpsedbeac96.jpg)


Accepted. Hope we both have better luck next time.

Sorry to hear and see so many retiring early on. Tough luck. :(

Did have issues again during practise. Again insufficient power to videocard --> screenfreezes...on my best lap I had traffic, could have done 32.1 according to splits, but what Uli did with that Ferrari was just stunning! 31.66 blistering lap in a Ferrari!

After resets and changing powercable videocard  once again, I just was back on time for the race. Already thought I was too late, but had some luck. Was able to get by Raoni, and after a few laps Ronnie spun in the last chicane, finding myself in P3. Raoni charged up and did have more pace, and passed me clean in T1, and then I had to settle for 4th, with Axel pushing behind me, keeping me honest. Had a few bad laps, and just couldn't break into the 32s, but then again P4 was maximum anyhow.

I don't think I've ever been so happy with P4, concerning what happened earlier. Congrats Tristan, Uli and Raoni. Well deserved and great pace! :)

PS: went to the bottom of my hardware probs, seems a lot ppl have the same, with the same videocard. Now have a sole powercable attached, with a few tweaks which should finally solve it  ::)

Big mistake. Play to the whistle as they say in football. Well I think my lap counter glitched because I thought I was on the last lap so crossed the line. NO FLAG ????. :-\ Lost concentration & went off at turn 1 & was passed by DONi who I had chased for most of the race till he had a slight off. So I set off after him but it was way too late. Still we were pretty even all race so no worries. Enjoyed it.

Norm H  

I have just checked my servers monitoring program and found nothing extraordinary at the starting phase.
But for the next races I will reduce the visible cars in front, even though we had full grids in other races without problems.

My race was fine, but I could not hold Raoni and Robert and so I had a fight with myself to keep the concentration to make no mistakes and I succeeded with 5th place.

Might help if you spaced the grid a little bit more as well?

The grid had 10m distance and was very loose.

Just checked the server replay, it shows no abnormal warp ::)

Connection spikes are just one of those things. I know you have a loose grid but I was just thinking that as the field compresses as you all move off, even looser might help but lose 500m on the grid isn't great!

Congrats to the podium of Tristan, Uli and Raoni. I would love to say that I quit in sympathy when Clive disappeared before my very eyes at the start but I would be lying. After settling down with Tristan and Uli in sight ahead and Robert and the rest of the pack in close attendance behind I made two silly mistakes and my race was over. First I was greedy with the side of the track on the exit of the final corner and spun. Then I ended up in the mesh fence with no escape a lap or two later. Both the result of some overdriving on my part. Unfortunate I find this necessary with the BRM in my hands. I like it but find it hard work to make it keep pace with the other cars on medium to slow circuits. See you all at Oulton.

Having checked the replay. I rear-ended Dean (I had nowhere to go) at 48mph (yes clive, I don't mess about) and bounced in to Jethro. Both Dean and Jethro continued undamaged whereas I was punted skyward and landed on my head, what bad luck! It may have something to do with the gypsie I ran over, whilst smashing a mirror, going under a ladder on Friday 13th trying to avoid several black cats crossing in front of me. Or it may just be a coincidence.

Edit. With pace shown in this race :o I think I may drop down to the undersubscribed ams. :-[

Rather fortunate to score a P6 here as I was well off the pace of the front runners.  I didn't do much in the way of pre-race trials but at least set a marker time as a reference.  When I joined the server and noted the top times, I thought, 'What are these guys smokin'!'  :)

The dash into T1 was a bit of a thrill.  I managed to get an inside lane into T1 and when I saw cars dancing thru the air, hugged the kerb.  It soon became apparent that I needed much more room and made for the grass.  I cruised by Arf without so much as a bump that I noticed but any kinetic energy of a possible collision seemed to go all his way and none mine.  Bad luck there, A-A-A.

Emerged from that mess to find ol' buddy from Atlas F1 wars, Natan, hot on my tail and anxious to pass.  We sparred for quite a few laps and on Lap07, he even got a pass going into and thru the hairpin but I stole it right back on the exit.  That was quite fantastic.  I expect that Natan was in the wrong gear and couldn't accelerate normally.  Still, one to savour.

We both had offs on Lap09 in T1 and I was able to continue, he not; stuck on the berm.  Bad luck there, Nat.  I then had Norm Hance(don't think we've had the pleasure before, Norm)close astern in a BT11.  Lap11 and Izzy, also in a Red Ball Special, passed Norm and closed in fast.  Fun to hear both V-12's screaming their lungs out around the circuit.  Seemingly quite a bit faster than I, it was tough to fend him off.  Ending Lap15, ID got the goods on me exiting the finishing chicane and was by on the inside for T1.  And off!  His Honda wavered ever so slightly on entry and correcting for the slide sent him wide onto the grass.  At least he avoided the dreaded berm and was able to resume albeit considerably down on time now.  I came within a ciggy paper of dropping off the road myself but just managed to hang on.

For the next 10 laps, Norm was my shadow never more than about two seconds behind.  Lap27 and I was definitely fatiguing and dropped the ball in the complex after T1.  A quick 360° spin was enough for Norm to storm by for P6.  Merde!

Norm immediately upped his pace and I, too, in my efforts to win back that coveted P6 placing.  Lap times for both of us dropped into the low 34's.  I even logged a high 33.  Pleased with that but Norm was still about two seconds up the road and only one lap to run.  Or at least, I thought...

My pitboard indicated that at the end of the next lap, it was game over.  Wait a mo...  NO CHECKERED FLAG?!?!  Hmmm...  I carried on with pace and was shocked to see Norm off in T1 and gifting me that P6 finish.  As he explained above, he was duped into believing his pitboard and it was cruel luck indeed for a worthy drive.  I did log that last lap and did finally see the checker for that placing.  I should be up on a charge of grand larceny!

@Dean: that would do it! Sorry again.

Also, a warm welcome to Wiltshire Tony. :)

Why thank you. I'll try not to get in the way  :angel:

GRATS Tristan and Raoni big hand to you, THX Admins
feels good to be on podium for the first time  ;D
Fantastic overtaking manover at T1 Tristan! :thumbup1: – Made no sens to follow you this time …
I‘m looking forward to Oulton Park
uli

Grids - how wide is wide enough?  Real GP drivers were 3 or even 4 abreast in the 1960's, and everyone moved off at a similar speed.  We can't safely do this, as a small bump can cause catastrophe.  But I have found, when our grids are spread too wide, large gaps open up, with room for fast cars to race through.  Speeds can become very different, on arrival at the first corner.  This happened to me last Privateers race - it was not a pretty sight!

I think something between the two extremes is best. It's less easy for fast starter's to overtake slow starters.  The best way to improve starting behaviour, is not to start us at 10 second intervals, but to let drivers practice, until they get it right!  We all hate penalties, but they were made to stop naughty behavior becoming a habit.  Let's not make our racing less competitive, and therefore, less exciting.  I for one, would rather be handcuffed after committing a crime, than before.

Controversy creation at no charge. ;D  I posted here, as many of our finest racers visit this page.

Just a quick one from me.

My race lasted a few metres as i approached the T1 accident at very slow speed. Got hit from behind and ended up on my roof.

No problem though. I'd taken the best part of 6months off GPL and it felt great to drive this SIM again.

I'm way off the pace, but enjoyed being back at UKGPL. See you next time.

Thanks also to NHance for popping over to repair my Clutch Pedal. No1 Driver, Team Leader and Team mechanic.

This was all about the latency experienced at the start Martin - if you draw the cars further apart each client has less detail to model so it might make the response smoother. As the field spreads lag and warp is less of an issue so a grid spacing of, say, 120m should do nicely. Less crashes that way too (unless the track is shorter than 2400m of course)  ;D

Not going into t1 as if your ass was on fire might also help!

The space was there to give it a shot, Gareth - I failed! :angel: :hammer:

When you look at the old GPL video's, from the days when both our Sim, and online racing were new, you'll see primitive looking cars lined up 3 by 2, the way track builders intended.  They would not have raced this way, if connections too often spiked.  Does it nowadays happen every 3rd race, or every 300th?  I don't have the figures, but suspect it's less of an issue than safety.

Ours was probably at first, a sport for youngsters - the latest fad to come along.  They had the lightning quick reflexes to survive in tight spaces, better than we do.  I don't think we're good enough as a group, to safely start that way.  But anyone racing competitively, should have the skills necessary to negotiate a sensible 1 by 1 grid, within sight of the starter.  It is the most dangerous part of a race, so there will be accidents.  There is no doubt that starting at 10 second intervals, would be a lot safer.  And I'll bet some would agree to it.  We are heading in that direction ATM.

As a victim of the Spike/Lag/Gremlins at Zolder, I can see the wisdom in spacing the cars out on the grid to lessen the load on the computive elements.

However, on the subject of safe(r) starts I am not at all convinced that bigger gaps between cars makes things better. If we all started at the same rate and accelerated at the same rate , then T1 would be a clean procession of evenly paced cars.

But, in my experience the larger the gap on the grid the more aggressive I can be with my start, because I have room to control the car and the wheelspin without hitting anyone, AND more importantly a huge gap to aim at. Also the wider spacing gives the opportunity to go for a pass on the run into T1 because there is room to exploit.

As a result gaps between the slower starting cars are filled by those who have got away more quickly, so closely packed groups of cars now arrive at T1 all jostling for position and often not on the ideal racing line and all at different speeds.

I cannot think of any track where there is not a long enough run down to T1 for a fast starting driver to gain place(s) if there is room.  When the racing mist descends there are not many who can resist an open invitation to go for a pass. Whereas if you are on a closely packed grid the emphasis switches from a "banzai!!!!" start, to "strewth!! this is tight, better be careful", and things tend to be a little more controlled.

Not really germane unless you want to go back to the original graphics and use DOS as your operating system. This is about a client/server interaction and latency. In the 'old days' you would have been on a dial up modem and not running seventeen other processes on your PC. You, literally, cannot compare the situations.

@Clive - if a larger space makes people more agressive but the packed grid means we have excessive warping then the solution would be to have a no overtaking zone until everyone is up to pace - I have done this in GPFun. I would comment but I wouldn't have been able to overtake those boys if I had wanted to...

Alternatively we could get heavy handed with the penalties

Or

We could leave well alone! It is really a matter of whether excessive warp is ruining people's fun to the point that races are unattractive.

All of the above is just musings really.

have a larger space between cars at the start and have no over taking for a couple of corner may work.
why no do it at the next fun race?

IMO we have to continue with normal loose grids, and free to race/pass. That's why we have a red zone. No need to make things more complicated, we need to use our brains and all will be fine. You can't win a race in T1 after the start, but you CAN lose it.

Warp/lag/spikes suck, but these are factors we can't control. OK, maybe more spaced grids, but actually I think it doesn't make things safer. Speed differences will be greater between good and slow starters, as Clive already said.

I have been musing over obtaining a second-hand server and installing a Windows Server 2003 instance + GPL + tracks on it and installing it in a rack at work (10Mb leased line connection).

Thoughts?

Hi :)

I love Zolder, very good track for me...and good race too ;)    ...thx to all , rendez-vous à Oulton  :-*

Exactly what UKGPL3 is (except it wasn't second hand. HP Microserver - unbelievable value for money. Windows Server - terrible VFM!

The main problem a server has is several clients with a bad connection in a short distance!

Second that.

That's why I use the 2/384 2/84 BW settings to have more input for the server. (every 2 frames instead of 3 frames)
My server runs this with a full grid of Gt's at LeMans without problems...

Maybe only a restriction in IGOR to limit the latency: "enforce maximum latency" set to a lower value, would help, but it would exclude some drivers...

Whilst latency was high (at least on my end) at the beginning of the race, it was not a significant factor in the start-line collision, I have just witnessed the replay and seen exactly what happened. As I was involved in the mêlée I have submitted my report accordingly.

Please don't second guess the Mod report - there is very clear evidence of warp at the start.

and I second, not second guessing about the warp. Your client replay may have been OK Jethro, but I definitely suffered from some interweb anomolies off the grid and was kicked off the server, so the gremlins were active somewhere.

Duly noted, we'll see what happens.

Mod published

I'm the only one who gets punished?

Take the 0 points I scored, you're welcome to them.  :laugh:

Warp's a pain in the rear-end-stepped-out.

Natan would have had the book thrown at him had he not had a major warp to fall back on. All the rest was reactions. The rejoin incident with Jethro was eminently avoidable - the 'punishment' is to encourage you to not do it again ;).

If you feel that you have been singled out unfairly then spend an hour and a half looking at each incident separately from several POVs and then tell me what conclusions you have come to.  :D

Is that level of dedication sustainable? If not, then you could make the offseason break longer.  You could have the summer season consist of only fun races.

I really enjoy the league the way it is, and I don't want a change. However, you should probably take steps to prevent burnout before it happens.  

Sorry, I know that all of my suggestions are not very good.