SimRacing.org.uk

The second round of the season 26 Historics championship (mod66) will be at LE MANS.


The full time drivers can start to practice as soon as the server is available.  Reserve drivers can also join as soon as the server becomes available but must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes; this will allow any remaining full timers to join.  If there is enough space on the grid, the reserve drivers will be able to rejoin when there are 30 mins of qualifying left.  

Please restrict chat to pit messages including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

The race will be run under PRO rules so no resets are allowed.


For THIS RACE, 3 liters car must be selected

All drivers have free choice (3 liters cars only).


Race List = IGOR
Server = UKGPL_T7_2
IP address = 62.149.202.168
Race date = Tuesday 28-01-2014
Time = 21:00 UK time (21:00 GMT)
Track = Le Mans (bsarthe)
Race length = 15 laps
Variant = 1966
Damage Model = Pro
Qualifying time = minimum of 30 minutes

Password see above (#post_event_password)
Replay will be here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Replays/Archive/Season26/Historics/)

Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=429&theme=6)

Full moderation of lap one red zone :
LAP ONE RED ZONE= First lap until the exit of last turn before Les Hunaudiéres (aka Mulsanne Straight) .


Some drivers reported a risk of disconnection on this track (I raced several times here, but it never happened to me) :
In case of global disconnection during the qualifying time or during the 2 first laps, the race will be moved to KYALAMI  with only 10 minutes of qualifying.
In case of general disconnections after the leader has passed 2 laps , the race will be reported at the end of the season and on another track.

if a server is available (UKGPLT7_2), I will launch a test session tonight in Le Mans around 9.00 pm UK time  (22H00 on the Continent).

Could you please arrange the track, to be driven on the left?  You may prefer not to be left, but we British believe we are in the right. :P

It might not be David. I will check for you by 20:00 UK time.

Paul

yes it is, I just made a try
 

I can make the start of this event but can't finish it.  A doctor's appointment will pull me away after about 15-20 minutes.  Still, I'd like the opportunity to score some points for the Moose.  Don't beat up on me too much as I'm not going to be around for the finish anyway.  :)

Edit: some minutes later...

Just called the doctor's office to confirm.  My appointment has been moved ahead.  Not a chance of making the show now.  Best of Luck, Gys!

You didn't miss anything Doni.

Guys. If you have a spin, can you apply the brakes please rather than rolling across the track?

Great job on the careful lap 1, guys!  ;D

Yes a well known scenario :

Just after the 1st turn, there was an accident in front of me, I braked to avoid the shunt but the driver behind me was too close, doesn't brake enough and rear ended me, projecting my car over other car(s).
13 drivers at the start ...only 7 after the first turn  :(

I don't know what to do ! Next race, I think I will start on the last position of the grid and wait several seconds before running.
 
Maybe we should re-introduce rolling start  ???


It seems there was a nice battle between Tristan and Tom during the fist laps !

You have to laugh. Practice, turn up, qualify, line up on the start grid, some one says be careful at the start in chat and............ ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Looking at the replay in my opinion the fun and games start when two Fezza's simply don't give each other enough room or more precisely one Fezza does not see/drifts into the other one. Still I get to go to bed early and for that I thank you Flo.

Good luck to everyone still running.

And then someone else does not see/drifts into another Fezza who had seen the incident and was trying to avoid it, knocking them sideways to join in the fun (and the very early find-something-else-to-do).  ::)

Barring the lap 1 fiasco which benefited me greatly (so I won't complain!) if ever an example of quick close racing was demonstrated, Tristan and Tom did a fine job for 8 laps until Tristan's engine lost a cylinder.

Turns out my longer 6th gear in the BRM still wasn't long enough when in the draft of those two, and it topped out around 199mph! Lost a wheel at Tertre Rouge after many laps, and watched the rest of the race from the sidelines.

Grats to Tommie and Tris  ( and Jethro) who drove a very fast race up front. I was watching the progress on prib, well you have to do something to pass the time on that endless straight!!!


Well well well, I can understand the disappointment of many at that T1 incident, which is why I deliberately did not try to qualify and started last.
After recent fiascos at Monza etc I could almost predict that something would happen, although I have to confess it did surprise me that it was so soon.  :( But I wanted to be sure that I avoided any paint swapping parties and concentrated on 1st lap survival and picking places up through the race. So I geared the Waza for slipstream and was able to tail a Fezza  at top speed with 750 revs in hand, just in case I should I want to try a pass. I had intended to pick off a few cars down the straight on Lap 1, but I never got the chance lol.

I came over the brow and there was a red wall in front of me...wall to wall fezzas. It was like a hairdressers convention  ;)

By the time I got onto the Mulsanne straight I was 5th.  A few laps dicing with Andreas in his Cooper and Martin tagging behind in his Fezza was fun, until Andreas spun and that left Martin and myself. I was quite happy to trundle along in martin's slipstream on the straight, but geeez his warping was unnerving around the rest of the circuit lol!

Then Martin overcooked it at Arnage? I think and I was away and clear with enough daylight to prevent him drafting back up to me in that fast red thing.

That gave me a solid 4th until Jethro lost a wheel and I was 3rd. On the last lap I was catching Tristan in his limping Ferrari and another few hundred metres and I might have stolen 2nd spot.

As it was, I got 3rd place from last on the grid in a slower car. Which does kind of prove that you cannot win a race on the first lap at somewhere like Le Mans, but you can certainly lose it, and to finish first ( or on the podium) first you have to be sure you finish??

Tried that - watch the replay  >:(

The only way is to get pole and disappear... :grumble:

Tried that - watch the replay  ;D

I have just assumed that there was an incident, because i had touch with Elvinclive before the top of the climb.
After this i was in 7th position with my friend Alexander far ahead ,but with a stupid error in the last chicane, at the end af the 4th lap, i lost the possibility to do some point.
Until now,in 6 races,i was not able to finish one without to be involved in incident.In the Historic always with touch at the start,in the Friday incident of various kind and in all of this I don't see  my clear responsibility.

In a track like Le Mans, it is ridiculous to want to be first at the begin of Hunaudieres/Mulsanne Straight ...because the first will be always overtaken by the followers with the slipstream.

Remember the last lap of 1969's 24 hours of Le Mans when Jacky Ickx and Hans Hermann did their best to enter the Hunaudieres in 2nd position... not in 1st !   

I was aware that I touched wheels with a car outside of me on the first bend, as we went up the hill, did not know who it was at the time Francesco and did not have time to check either as my attention was taken by the carnage.

Paul is right...and so is Tommie who proved it lol.

There are only a few ways to guarantee survival of the first lap..in order of preference.

1) Qualify on the front row and blitz your start, to be sure you have a clear track ahead and you are away and clear.  This is best as it means you are at the very least in the leading pack.
2) Start at the back and leave enough room ahead to stop if anyone screws up in the first lap. Safe, but only works if you are confident in picking up the pace and places as the race opens up.
3) Start mid pack and keep to your side of the track, checking mirrors and side view constantly, to avoid other drivers who are not being so aware. Being prepared to make space for the car that isn't looking, even if it means losing a place or two. This is about the only way, concentrating on surviving even if it means giving away several places by slowing
4) Start mid grid, close you eyes when things get close and pray that everyone else is being ultra careful.  The chances are that this will end badly I think
5) Assume that no matter what you do or where you put your car every other driver will be sure to keep clear of you.  difficult to believe anyone would do this isn't it?

LOL Tom. Wish I was you.

@Fran. You were up against the wall and spun your wheel to get yourself pointing the right way. Problem with that is that you went right across the track. Just stop. Wait until it is safe. Incidents can and will happen off the start but what makes it worse is when drivers are impatient.

Last night was not a major issue for me, but drivers have to start thinking about the other people around if we are going to have races where more than half the field make it past T1.

IMO the only way to get this sorted is to give a "no qualification for next race" penalty for unquestionable shunters in the red zone...

I was really frustrated to end such early, LeMans is a favourite track and my car was good enough to do a 3.28.858 without tow ;)

Maybe not a no qualification for next race (if we want to be more than 10 racers), but a start from the pits... ? (depending on the track, because it could be an advantage on some of them)

Unquestionable shunters in red zone should be DQ'd.

Immediate consequences!

If you crash you will probably leave because of damage or if lucky enough not to be damaged and you started the crash you get DQ'd.....you leave either way!

Listen to the Oraclive of Delphi...lol

Starting from the pit means you loose the first lap! On nearly all tracks, imagine Nurby :o

No qualification means you start from the back of the grid.
I don't think this will keep real racers away, but give them some time to rethink their tactics.

I know that nobody is doing it for purpose, it happened to me in Bikerneiki F2



Some penalty points and 3 places lost after leaving the race early, is forgotten in the next race!

I do think we need a general discussion about what to do to make the penalties actually hurt!

what you can do is make the first 6 places on the grid more tight (maybe 10 metres apart, just standard online grid), and after that have much bigger gaps, perhaps 30 metres or more, then give the drivers who caused a start pileup a quali penalty so they start well back but do not lose a lap by starting in the pits.

TBH, sometimes I think the loose grids are causing these problems!

Used to the wide grids, I am shocked if there is a "historic grid" by mistake and it makes me extra carefull for the starting phase ::)

We were all using tyres set for speed rather than handling, I suspect, which didn't help matters.  The current Ukgpl policy of generally minimizing penalties, and being nice, doesn't seem to be working.  We are an experienced pack of drivers, behaving like starts are something new.  Let the punishment fit the crime - death to all offenders!  Ok, maybe just back of grid or something, for this Season, so we learn.  Also - 'Name and shame!'  Add name of starting offender to the next race announcement, with his penalty, so we may stare and glare. >:( ;D

Race report to follow, after dire matter discussion.

On this interpretation we can start a discussion.Look season 25 at Monaco.Could not be the same consideration?
My start yesterday was very careful in anticipation and also to avoid incident(Alexander  G. Know what i mean),but in this way have given the opportunity to the follower to pass me or to race at my side,so in this way born the incident.
My opinion ,on this track,was that is unnecessary to fight for the position at the first curve.The slipstream on the long straight,like Rainier say in a previous post,is more advantageous to gain position for who comes from behind.
Following this opinion is not totally  understandable the attack of Elvinclive.Was not better to wait the straight?
More easy and sure the overtake.
Anyway is not a problem this incident for me ,since one my stupid error stop my race at the end of the 4th lap

I think Martin has given you the simple answer. There is nothing you can do to eliminate problems for good, but you can certainly apply some pressure for a change in mentality in people who unfortunately need that. Instead, I think these matters have been handled with an excessively cautious touch in the last few years, as if moderators were afraid to lose drivers by forcing them to respect the rules (and, maybe useful to add, other people's time..). It seems to me that David's comment above confirms this impression



Maybe a more detached attitude would help: if the requirement of a certain etiquette (common sense?) in driving and the respect of the rules are going to scare off most people, then maybe the league and the game have run their course and it is time to move on to something different. It is going to happen sooner or later anyway..

When I started racing in S20 the entire Novice races were moderated. This resulted in me piling up 6 or 7 penalty points in the space of the first few races. As I wanted to compete for the championship, that was real bad news for me, as PPs mean lost positions in the final standings of races. In this way, even a minor touch with some other car at the beginning of a race, could have easily meant a 4th place as best possible finishing result for me, even if I had won on the track (1 position lost for every 2 penalty points, anyone remember that rule?). The deterrent was good enough for me, as I said, and I quickly changed my attitude on the track.

A couple of seasons later, we had discussions similar to the one you guys are having now. We concluded that one of the faults of the penalty system was that, for people who don't really care much about their final position in the points table, a couple of positions lost after a race weren't really that much of a deterrent. This is probably debatable, as I think losing, not 2, but 5 or 6 positions every other race (you just need to amass 10 PPs for that) would start annoying even the most stubborn 'diver' we have at UKGPL (and we do have quite a few of them.. ::) ). Still, it was agreed that in addition to the lost positions in the final standings of a race, in addition to the ban for one race due to an excess of PPs accumulated by one driver in any single division, PPs, once they reached a given amount, were also going to produce more immediate (next race) penalties as L1 S&G and BoG starts.

So, the discussion has already happened. And, I would add, many, many times...Now the question is, where are those 'in series' penalties gone? Has anyone ever actually served any of them? I am pretty sure this is not the first time I ask this question, and somehow I just cant recall the answer.

maybe we could make some connection between driving like a doofus and a 'voluntary' server donation  ;)

Yes, it has been served by me in the pro division when I was mod there! A s+g penalty was given for the following race.

Not sure who you are blaming there Dean? Saw it, slowed , several cars go past/are ahead of me, nowhere to go, bystander in someone elses accident. Anyone seeing it differently needs their eyes testing. End of story.

What happened from my PoV. Started good, made 3th place, then had to slow down a bit in T1 because Tristan was sliding a bit. Took a quick look on pribluda where the others were, only saw someone with -20m behind, didnt see the one digit number that must have been there and didnt see someone in my mirror, cause I had to concentrate not to touch Tristan. So I just went to the right side for the next corner, then touched with Dean, who was there, which I didnt knew. End of my race. If you think that a harder punishment would have avoided this accident, then you are wrong. Just didnt see him, thats all. Actually I wonder why you discuss harder punishments now? It´s not like every race starts with a carnage.

Thank you for your description Florian, as it is helpful in sorting what went wrong.  Sounds like a misreading of a digital enhancement, started the trouble.

I'm going to make myself unpopular, but believe this Pribluda addiction is not entirely helpful to races.  Using it to orientate during the 1st couple of corners, seems crazy to me.  We have eyes and ears, and beyond that, caution is preferable to distraction.  No, I havn't tried using it,  during a race start, so it's only common sense I'm using for judgement. 

Who is this Alexander G. that you are palare about?

Florian, at the start, ALWAYS stay to your side of the track. ALWAYS. Especially when someone askes in chat to be carefull at the start of the race. I see you didn't do it on purpose (obviously) but please remember to ALWAYS stay on your side of the track, at least untill after the first corner. In this case, Dunlop isn't really a corner because there is no braking involved in lap 1. I'm not actually sure if it's in the Recommended Driver Behaviour, but I've always stuck to my side of the track at starts and rarely get taken out. Look at what I did at Borovaya during the test race. I started dead last on the right side of the track, stayed right all the way down the straight, braked carefully, avoided the carnage and won the race.


It must be you  :)

So you go left into the space where I am.  :(


Didn't say or imply it would have made a difference, but I went from having a tiny chance of getting through to having none at all thanks to your involvement.


Hey, thanks for being allowed to have my own opinion about some things, even if it differs from yours.  :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

Have you looked at the replay Dean? We were not the only cars slowing to avoid Axel and Flo. The car on my right moved over to the left to avoid them and so I naturally moved left to avoid him and them. Since you were already on my left I appreciate you had nowhere to go with the wall on this section of track and so contact was almost inevitable unless you had been able to slow more than us. But please don't apportion any blame to me because none is due in my opinion. Like I said the problem started ahead and we were innocent bystanders. Obviously I am not stopping you from expressing your opinion but the fact on this occasion I made contact with you does not make it automatically my fault. I don't do incident reports Dean but please please if you do feel I was to blame in any way whatsoever I urge you to submit a report. I would not like to get away with anything if another driver feels I ruined their race.

The fact that you (not Flo, not Cookie) went into space that you should have known was occupied and were the first one to involve the car that was there in the accident kind of does.

The fact that you are not the one at fault for the initial incident does not absolve you of ALL responsibility, is all I said.

Red zone, so report will be filed (I didn't initiate, they've asked for my opinion) about the whole thing.

Not sure what you mean - I didn't race you at Monaco in Season 25.

I simply said you chose to spin across the track in front of me. It was avoidable and put me out without any mistake on my part.

I think you will find that the request for info refers to the Pros at Zolder, not Historics.

Sorry for the mistake,was Andreas Gebhart.At the moment i don't know i thought Alexander.Anyway this track had not the characteristics for one of my classic start and crash.

Sorry initially i have not understood what you meant.The spin over the track that i remember was only during the
qualifications.At the start of the race i was second last and after the touch of Elvinclive ,my race was with myself.
I have not seen the replay until now and i not remember,in my only 5 laps,to have seen others cars excluding Gebhart but from far .

To add in this discussion: in general I think ppl need to be better aware of other cars, especially at the start, and give (more) room. I have a F10 button programmed on my wheel, and both sideviews ofcourse (ofen take a glance after start). Together with prib you almost can be fully aware when other cars are alongside. Despite the dead angle in GPL.

And always keep your line, only move over when you are 100% sure there's no car alongside. You can still race and pass cars at the start, just rather be safe than sorry.

Surely no one intends to wreck at the start, but again, more awareness and respect to other cars is nescessary to avoid (start) incidents. Don't follow to close and take too much risks, and give the other car enough room. Incidents will always happen, but we need to try as hard as we can to avoid them...this goes also for aggressive rejoining, check prib and your views you have available...

Not a problem Fran. More a general observation that drivers need to take a little more care when recovering from incidents. Not just you.

A race report :

Big trouble at start of big race.  Big heap in need of big heap medicine.  Send smoke signal to all behind, warn of deranged redskin Pow-wow.  Remove foreign wheels from war bonnet, and follow fellow braves towards happier hunting ground.

Soon found myself in a three horse race, with the lead 3 scouts lead hoofing it up ahead, unsullied by the strickening sights of naked aggression.  In time, the trauma told, and Andreus befell a tree, or perhaps a bush.  And thus there remained, a lonely duo. :angel:

Mid-race, I thought I'd have a go at breaking the toe, but Evil fell quickly on it.  A silly half spin on wobbly Le Mans style boots, and it was suddenly crunch time!  Thence expected to catch the fleet footed offender, but failed to nail him down on the main straight.

It was thereby curtains to a podium, but nonetheless I believe, worthy of a bow.  No rotting fruit please, I already ate! :o

Hello! I'm not 100% sure if this is where I'm spouse to say Hi, sorry for any inconvience! I have signed up for the message board and I see you guys do run a lot of series, I was just interested in the GPL 67 Cars. I only have the standard track and no other mods. I would greatly appreciate if I someone could give me a link to some tracks and mods! I would also like to know if I need anything else. Please tell me all the stuff I need to race. If you need my email to send me more info it is: [email protected] I look forward to seeing you guys on the track!

Thanks, Andre

Hi Andre, welcome to UKGPL.  There is quite a lot to know if you only have the original Grand Prix Legends game loaded.   There are a dedicated group of guys who have remodelled all of the 67 GP cars to be much more accurate and something like 300+circuits to play with..and the best bit is that they are all free.  ;D

It is probably best to use this link to get you started with what you will need.

Although you may have the original game loaded and working I suggest that you save any setups or replays that you wish to keep and  reload GPL using the installer here  -> https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?PHPSESSID=ntncd5ta5egquif6l08eeqq8p1&topic=6787.0        you can then replace your setups. At this stage you do not need to download and install all of the other carsets for 65,66 69 etc just stick with your 67 cars and get the updates ( they really are so much better than the originals.)

The guide above and the links to all of the extra bits is pretty comprehensive and foolproof, but if you have any problems or questions post them here  -> https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=12063.0

Don't worry if you get lost on the forum, just post your probs right here you will probably be swamped with help. Especially if you have probs getting on-line with the race servers etc, we have some ultra clever boffins here who will guide you through any issues. If they could get me online, they can get anyone sorted!!

Look forward to seeing you on track soon.

Okay thanks so Much! So that link, with the new GPL is that the latest and the greatest? What does it include? Like new sound texture packs and other stuff. As of now I have the all in one patch for GPL with the 67 cars and my version is 1.2.0.2. I will download your new GPL link tonight:0

Okay, that is just adorable.

Having a "what if" moment... if I'd finished 2nd on the road, I would be joint top in the championship. Ah, what if...

moderation published.

Moderation published? Dave can you check it again because no mention has been made that I was at fault in some way for the mayhem that followed. Surely everyone would have got through if I had not been selfish enough to try and avoid the trouble ahead? My critics will be aghast if this verdict stands, please reconsider  :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I checked the replay again.
For me you did nothing wrong.  There was contact with Dean as you tried to avoid several cars just in front of your Brabham.
But you didn't have enough gap (like Andreas for example) to do anything else.

By the way, if you really want a penalty  ;D we can ask other moderators.

Memory's a bit hazy, but did I really overtake you into T1? (I feel a bit funny now... :D)

You certainly did and it would have been a great move but for the trouble ahead. Then again maybe I was in reverse and going backwards past you, sorry  :laugh:

I have a question. Who is the moderator that posted the report and who decided to do the punishments and why is the penalty 3 places and not 2, 4, 1 or 10 places? And btw, if you think punishment achieves anything good, you are wrong. The one who is without sin may throw the first stone. Punishment for "wrong" behavior is like the mom that slaps her 5 year old for smacking his brother.

It is called having rules and setting in place a system that encourages people to respect them. How would you go about that business Florian?

The number of places you have lost is determined by the above mentioned rules, which are easily accessible to everyone on this site.

Actually, if it were for me, I think it would be useful to have a statistic of the accidents created by each single driver within the season. I think it is easy to lose sight of the bigger picture, convincing yourself that clashes with others are just an inevitable part of the game. Crashing into someone else is not 'wrong', it is just wrong.

The three places come from the penalty for an incident where you are considered to be seriously at fault (two places) and one extra for causing an incident in the Red Zone.

The idea of these penalties is to encourage drivers to drive in a more responsible way by removing rewards (points) for 'wrong behaviour'. You can see it as a smack if you like  ;D

Cool that you ask me. I would rip apart every single rule and would have no rule at all. A system can´t "encourage" people to respect them. Either they do respect themselves or they do not. A system does not change anything. Why do you think punishment encourages people to respect each other? There is really no link between the one and the other. It just doesn´t work this way. As you can see in RL. It does NOT work. You are trying to convince yourself that clashes with others are no inevitable part of the game. You want a proof? The system exists, clashes still happen. So it didn´t change anything. There you have it. Crashing into someone is of course "wrong". Why? Because right and false do not exist. Therefore wrong doesn´t exist.

Edit: And thanks Arturo for making me realize this.

@Flow: I say this from experience... if you don't take heed of any penalties that you may receive, or any incidents you may be involved in, you will accumulate penalties, and will be forced to take a back seat for a while. (see my 65 series in S18, only time from memory that a UKGPL driver's been penalised this much, and I have learnt from it and try and keep my nose clean: https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=222&theme=6)

Florian
Now, you are asking questions that you should knew BEFORE the race.
You should have read this page (indicating you the specific rules about Historics season and who is the moderator)
  https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=429&theme=6
And moreover the penalties guidelines :
https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/penalties 


Thats your point of view, and like another PoV it could be respectable BUT there are written rules and nobody should ignore it.
Somebody wrote this “Entre le fort et le faible, entre le riche et le pauvre, entre le maître et le serviteur, c'est la liberté qui opprime et la loi qui affranchit »
which could be translated in
« Between the strong and the weak, between the rich and the poor man, between master and servant, it is the freedom which oppresses and the law which frees “
Personally, I would have (slightly, of course) slap my 5 years old boy in the situation you described.

What I feel very disappointing is at any time, you started any apologies to other drivers you ruined their race. 
By the way, a penalty of 3 places will change nothing to the championship as you already had 0 point for this race. In such a case, I think the rules should be updated (remove some points, force the driver to start  at the end of the next race grid …but in this case he will be a danger for slow drivers ! not easy)


It seems you are really very young  :o  :o  :o  :D


Which Arturo ?   Merzario ?

Ah, ok. Well, never mind then...It is Attilio though.

@TurkeyMachine Do you really think you became a better driver because of the penalties in S18 and not by getting more experienced because of driving in more races? What you said there seems like a rationalization to me.


Well, my PoV is the opposite. Everybody should ignore the written rules. You dont follow a rule only because I wrote it down do you? But I can´t find the source in the guidelines. Who wrote them all? I can´t find any names. I want to ask him about them, especially about my case.


Blatant side by side contact, why 2 Places? Why not 1, 3 or 4?

Simple Side by Side contact, why 1 place. Why not 2, 3 or 4?

What the person who wrote that says is that the game itself has limited lateral view. He says that one has to develop a sixth sense in order to be aware of the position of every other car. Is that sixth sense developed by penalties or by driving more?

Another problem is what is if I don´t understand this text at all, because English is not my native language? For example I would bet that Tristan has a huge problem to understand all that rules, but he drives anyway and is a very quick driver.

The sentence that Henri Lacordaire wrote there is horrible! It reminds me of 1984, where people say things like war is peace and peace is war. The thing is he might not have had the same opinion in his life after writing this. I read in short about his life on wiki and it said that he revoked all the things he had said in the "avenir". So if the sentence is from that time he later said the opposite. Problem is we can´t ask him now about that. But the thing is only because a person says something it doesn´t mean it´s true. You wouldn´t be my opinion only because I said Tarso Marques is the greatest driver of all time, would you?

Don´t you see the bittersweet irony in that situation with the mom and her 5 year old? The mom thinks the behavior of her son is wrong towards his brothers. She thinks it is not ok that he hurts his brother physically. And so what she does? She hurts her son physically because he hurts someoneelse physically. How can you make clear to someone that stealing is wrong by stealing him? In fact what the mom did there is she basically showed him that it is in fact ok that he does that to his brother. The next time his brothers takes his candys he thinks even more, yes now i have to smack him. And then mom does the same to him. It´s a vicious circle, can´t you see?

Why do you feel disappointed that I didn´t apologize? I explained myself and I do not feel any guilt, so I have no reason to apologize. Only because you think I am guilty I don´t have to think the same, do I?

I don´t care that a penalty of 3 places changes nothing. I don´t talk about this because I feel the need to achieve something better for myself. I talk about this because I feel all this penalty stuff doesn´t make sense. So who can in fact update this text? I wanna talk to him and ask him if it is possible to delete the whole text.

So how young do you have to be to make that statement that right and wrong doesn´t exist? And if it exists, who knows what is right and wrong? You? The parents teaching their children? Children should not become grownups, grownups should become children.

I know that I know nothing - Sokrates

There are 2 types of racing in the Sims world - there is Offline, and there is Online.  Offline you make the rules.  Online, someone else makes the rules. :-\

In the real world, if you break the rules, you go to jail.  In our world, you get penalty points.  If we were all perfect, there would be no need for rules.

"Freedom without rules" means "the strongest are making the law"  :2guns:


I cannot see any link with Orwell's 1984 : war is peace, peace is war ...this is exactly the opposite.
 


No more to say !

You can talk to me - PM is probably easiest although there is nothing to hide. Drivers forum maybe? - this is a race thread and we are now way off talking about the race.

The existential stream of consciousness is interesting but ultimately futile. The rules exist and if you drive with us you implicitly agree to be bound by them. That is the deal. In that context right and wrong emphatically DO exist.

@Flow: both. :)

The rules are made in order to make sure that everybody has as much chance of finishing as possible. If you'd have complied, you could've continued the race, and possibly won. Do you not want to win?