SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL => UKGPL Races => Topic started by: BadBlood on March 31, 2014, 10:23:34 AM +0100



Title: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: BadBlood on March 31, 2014, 10:23:34 AM +0100
Season 26 Professionals Trophy, Round 6, Kyalami

Welcome to the Professionals Trophy for the 1965 Grand Prix cars. Apologies for the late notice but I have been unable to post from home for a few days.

Not too much to say because this track is so well known. A papy original and a classic and long time home of the South African Grand Prix. First visit for the Pros for several seasons.

You do need to ensure that you have the pit wall in place. The standard Papyrus track has a pit wall but there are patches available that remove it. The absence of a pit wall will not stop you from joining the race but anybody seen by the moderators miraculously driving through the pit wall on the server replay will risk disqualification.

Follow these instructions to restore the wall if you have a mod that has removed it:
METHOD 1:
To place a wall between the pits and the track, rename or remove the kyalami.trk and kyalami.3do files from your kyalami folder.
METHOD 2:
To reinstall the original Papyrus Armco, rename or remove the Armco_s.mip file from your kyalami folder.

Division Moderator =   Badblood
Race List =   IGOR
Server = UKGPL_8
IP Address = tba
Race date = 01-04-2014
Qualification Time   = ~20:45  UK time -> 30-45 min
Race Time = race starts at 21:30 UK time
Track = Kyalami (Papy original)
Variant = 65F1 the 2.02 Release of the 65mod should be used
Damage Model = PRO
Race length = ~50 min -> 35 laps
RED ZONE = From the start to the exit of Leeukop
Password = see above (#post_event_password)
Replay = you will get here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Replays/Archive/Season26/Pros/)


Driver lists and series rules can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=430&theme=6).

The full time drivers can start to practice as soon as the server is available.  Reserve drivers can also join as soon as the server becomes available but must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes; this will allow any remaining full timers to join.  If there is enough space on the grid, the reserve drivers will be able to rejoin when there are 30 mins of qualifying left.  

Please restrict chat to pit messages including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

Moderating The red zone will be fully moderated for lap 1 only. For this event the red zone will be the first lap up to the exit of Leeukop.

Other moderation will be on reported incidents only.  However any incidents that occur in the red zone that are not reported by the drivers will be reported by the moderator.  This will allow all affected drivers the opportunity to present their case before the incident is moderated.  This should ensure there are no surprises when the moderator's report is published and hence appeals will be less likely.  If you haven't received a PM about an incident before the link below the results table is removed, you can be sure that you will not appear in the moderator's report.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: Clutch4 on April 01, 2014, 09:41:26 PM +0100
A turn 1 exit again.

Oh well, its to be expected in the Novices... oh yeah..its the Pro's. Hard to tell.

On to the next one.

Good job GPL is so good for off-line racing, so i'm off to Kyalami with the Clark, Hill, Surtees and the rest instead.

 :(


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: natan5 on April 01, 2014, 09:47:14 PM +0100
Yep
That was a very fast race indid  :o


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: Arf Arf Arf on April 01, 2014, 09:49:37 PM +0100
The connection tonight was extra-terrible. During qually the times posted for me bore little relation to the times that Prib was showing me, leaving me confused. I have never noticed the middle red bar much, but tonight it was usually higher than the latency bar, and that was higher than usual for me....

Anyway, with all that going on I didn't mind the poor start position, and was able to avoid the T1 accident. The stuttering of every car I could see was quite alarming. One thing though - I should normally be able to see 6 cars in front, 2 behind? I could see more than 6 in front of me....

..what I couldn't see was round blind corners. On L2, as I came round T3 all I could see was bits of cars everwhere. I had absoloutely nowhere to go and hit someone's already upside down car. It looks like Uli made a bad entrance to T2, letting Tris pass him...except Uli contested T3 and caused chaos. At least 4 cars taken out by that......at least...

Wasn't optimistic for the race given the connection, but it was a poor way to end the evening...

 


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: Arf Arf Arf on April 01, 2014, 09:54:30 PM +0100
The connection tonight was extra-terrible. During qually the times posted for me bore little relation to the times that Prib was showing me, leaving me confused. I have never noticed the middle red bar much, but tonight it was usually higher than the latency bar, and that was higher than usual for me....

Anyway, with all that going on I didn't mind the poor start position, and was able to avoid the T1 accident. The stuttering of every car I could see was quite alarming. One thing though - I should normally be able to see 6 cars in front, 2 behind? I could see more than 6 in front of me....

..what I couldn't see was round blind corners. On L2, as I came round T3 all I could see was bits of cars everwhere. I had absoloutely nowhere to go and hit someone's already upside down car. It looks like Uli made a bad entrance to T2, letting Tris pass him on the exit...except Uli contested T3 and caused chaos. At least 4 cars taken out by that......at least...

Wasn't optimistic for the race given the connection, but it was a poor way to end the evening...

 


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: Turkey Machine on April 01, 2014, 09:56:19 PM +0100
I make that 7 out by that one accident. Lap 1 red zones appear to be fine (Zolder excepting), but lap 2 or 3 tends to be where the chaos lies these days.

Arf: server settings over-ride client settings IIRC.

The crash kinda terminated any chance of tootling round and picking up a decent finish. With no way to really avoid the carnage I aimed for a gap that quickly became non-existent and it killed the engine stone dead.

Client replay will no doubt illuminate the possibilities of what might have been.

Apologies to whomever I accidentally warped on L1.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: MagicArsouille on April 01, 2014, 10:02:10 PM +0100
second on the grid , it's seems to be a funy race......one lap one Uli spinn a little at turn 5 and I overtake him but he do the same at the end of the straight line .....lap 2, Uli spinn again in T2 just enought me to pass him , but in T3 i dive in the inside ( ready to roll on the grass inside)....letting enought room outside  but Uli hit my back rear wheel and then many drivers ending his race ... :'(...tss tsss ttsss !  ....Uli , you know the Ferrari faster, then why don't you wait for the straight line to overtake ?.....well I 'm in front of you in the inside , why do you insist ?....it's not the last turn of the last lap !....


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: EvilClive on April 01, 2014, 10:15:56 PM +0100
A little disappointed to be honest.

It was the first time I had used the 65 BRM at Kyalami in a real race. All those years in the Waza denied me the delights of other cars. I was quite happy with my 6th? place on the grid as I was at least in touch with the fast boys at the front and my setup felt reasonably stable on race fuel.
Although I had a high ratio in 1st I got off the line faster than Ronnie(?) who was directly in front of me and I toyed with the idea of poking my car down the narroe strip of tarmac on the outside, but sanity prevailed and I backed out of that one  ;), losing a couple of places in the process.
T1 was a little hairy but we all seemed to squeeze through and Natan ran slightly wide at T2 so I regained that place and set off after Axel. At the end of Lap 1 I closed up under braking for T1 and T2 and was stuck right up Axel's gearbox for T3, planning to slingshot past into T4. I was so close to Axel, and concentrating so much on NOT hitting his rear as I wound up the BRM, that I did not see the chaos until it was too late and hit a Ferrari full on. That ripped about 6 wheels off my car and set it on fire, so I figured I would retire..........again  :-\
I'm just not getting any luck in 65's lately, always wrong place at the wrong time, ah well it looked promising whilst it lasted.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: DLogan on April 01, 2014, 10:59:36 PM +0100
Quote
Leader of the race starts lap 2

2m50.520s...
Dean Logan_65 - spotters reporting:
the car has an engine problem...
Dean Logan_65 - spotters reporting:
the engine problem is getting worse...

2m52.520s...
Dean Logan_65 - spotters reporting:
the engine problem is getting worse...

2m57.520s...
Dean Logan_65 - spotters reporting:
minor problems with right rear suspension...

Followed by 33 1/2 laps of flogging a V6 Lotus. But hey points so paste the smile on for the waiting press...  :-X


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: NHance on April 01, 2014, 11:28:53 PM +0100
Got punted from behind in lap1 turn 1 & set off again in 13th & last place. Didn't see the multiple crash on lap 2 but suddenly I was 7th. Passed I think Dean & Dave R so got up to 5th with lots of laps left. managed to get a gap so they wern't in the tow.
I don't really bother about what's going on at the front with the fast boys. I usually quallify around the same times as Doni & Arf but they always seem to be ahead in the race. Doni was 4th about 9 secs ahead so that makes this chase serious. It took the rest of the race. Got the gap to less than 4 secs but a bad lap put it up again. Towards the end got it down to 4 secs again but a spin at turn 2 on the penultimate lap ended the chase but fortunately I had enough in hand not to lose a place. The spin probably saved me a DNF as I noticed the engine was getting a bit hot so it cooled whilst I was off. The perfect ending - the engine stopped as I crossed the line.
Well done the podium, no, under the circumstances anyone who finished ;)
Norm H


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: uli on April 01, 2014, 11:30:45 PM +0100
What was that?   ::)
An attack at that place? At this full throttle curve? For changing the lead? At this corner I do not have any time to look in the mirror need full concentration … For sure that‘s no place for experiments – there is no time to react within this speed, like everyone could see when the other colleagues demonstrated this, and they had more time to react than I had!
Fact is Tristan was on the inside and in front but when I realized that it was already to late - that's for sure no place for a change of leadership! I would not even trust in overlapping at that place because it‘s easy going in front of the next corner sunset …
I was very surprised of this incredible, aggressive stile of driving! A maneuver also completely useless, it only costs time – if it goes well! I‘m very sorry that so much drivers had to pay the bill for that useless maneuver …
At the end for me it was an race accident BUT an absolutely senseless and frustrating …
What should it be on the ring - where you have to wait for an overtaking about 20 km?
Don‘t misunderstand me, I‘m not a child of sadness, if you like this way of racing, according to the motto "no risk no fun" let‘s do it BUT than we have to accept the price …
I‘m looking forward with very mixed feelings to next race!
GRATS Robert!! nice that at least a ferrari took the win, GRATS Axel and Signore Peterson!




Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: Robert Fleurke on April 01, 2014, 11:34:22 PM +0100
Improved a lot in quali, and ran a 23.8 in clean air, but the poletime of Uli would have been unreachable even with a good tow.

Got very lucky with the start, my clutch button is wearing out, and rolled a bit, and was afraid of getting a black flag. Was able to hold on to P3 and was happy to see no black flag. Then Uli and Tris were racing like it was the last lap, and I was waiting for an accident to happen, following not too close. Surely going two wide in Jukskei Sweep is a no-go, and I think half the field was taken out or so...

From then on I could drive away from Axel, and managing engine and tires. Lost focus a few times having some "bad" laptimes, but kept it on track, and tried to set fastest lap on the last lap. :)

Again, very lucky win. Well done Axel, and Ronnie, who had a great pace after a mishap, and finishers ;) Commiserations to all that had to retire early on...


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: Arf Arf Arf on April 02, 2014, 06:40:51 AM +0100
What was that?   ::)
An attack at that place? At this full throttle curve? For changing the lead? At this corner I do not have any time to look in the mirror need full concentration …
Don‘t misunderstand me, I‘m not a child of sadness, if you like this way of racing, according to the motto "no risk no fun" let‘s do it BUT than we have to accept the price …


Come now Uli. You made a mistake at the previous corner which seriously compromised your exit speed. ANYONE would have seen an opportunity to take you, and anyone in your position should have been looking in their mirrors for the inevitable overtake, not an opportunistic one. Tris cannot take any blame for what he did.



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: BadBlood on April 02, 2014, 08:53:20 AM +0100
Again, very lucky win.

You must be very lucky Rob - I have been doing this for about five years and I haven't got a 65's win yet! Steady driving to the finish is a well deserved victory - not luck!

As for the incident, I am looking forward to looking at that one!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: Ronniepeterson on April 02, 2014, 05:11:33 PM +0100
To be brutally honest I am  ;D big time here at the race last night and the early exchanges of comments here regarding the incidents on lap 1 and lap 2. Lets hope any moderation, if necessary, is as incisive here as it has been elsewhere  ::)

Having been delayed turn 1 lap 1, I found myself towards the back of the grid. However, I suppose I should be grateful that I was more prepared than some to avoid the mess on Lap 2. The rest of the race was great fun regardless for me personally as I tried to get back on terms with the remaining leaders.

Grats again to Robert and Axl, but I would keep that medal polish handy Doni, just in case.

See you all at the next one.



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: Robert Fleurke on April 03, 2014, 10:53:06 AM +0100
Again, very lucky win.

You must be very lucky Rob - I have been doing this for about five years and I haven't got a 65's win yet! Steady driving to the finish is a well deserved victory - not luck!

As for the incident, I am looking forward to looking at that one!

Cheers Paul, but looking at my (rolling) start, the elimination of Uli and Tris, and Clive, who looked very strong early on, plus Ronnie losing time on Lap 1, meant I had a relatively easy race without pressure.

So I got lucky where others were unlucky. ;) But again, a win is a win, and I take it :)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: BadBlood on April 03, 2014, 11:20:10 AM +0100
Course it is only 'pending' at the mo. I am taking a look at the weekend. I have set aside an hour or two...  ::)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: Turkey Machine on April 05, 2014, 08:08:23 PM +0100
My only public comment about that incident is that Robert and Cookie are lucky lucky **** to get through that and still finish!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: Cookie on April 05, 2014, 08:51:10 PM +0100
My only public comment about that incident is that Robert and Cookie are lucky lucky **** to get through that and still finish!

Yeah! :o


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: Ronniepeterson on July 20, 2014, 06:08:41 PM +0100
 :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

"Cookie contends that Ronnie should not cut in on L1 T1 but Cookie should know that by putting himself down the inside in the way he did he risks a collision. He comes form a long way back and makes one pass stick but two is too much!"

To put this another way, the moderator is allowed to risk all on the first turn of the first lap and the non moderator is not allowed to take the racing line even when ahead!!!!!!

I raised concerns over whether the moderating team was playing fair or not and this one incident alone gives me grave concern regarding the impartiality of the moderating team. I did absolutely nothing wrong and was robbed of a genuine chance of a win here.

I take this as a green light to risk all on the first lap in future and do not expect to be penalised. 



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: Rainier on July 20, 2014, 06:44:54 PM +0100
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o

"Cookie contends that Ronnie should not cut in on L1 T1 but Cookie should know that by putting himself down the inside in the way he did he risks a collision. He comes form a long way back and makes one pass stick but two is too much!"

To put this another way, the moderator is allowed to risk all on the first turn of the first lap and the non moderator is not allowed to take the racing line even when ahead!!!!!!

I raised concerns over whether the moderating team was playing fair or not and this one incident alone gives me grave concern regarding the impartiality of the moderating team. I did absolutely nothing wrong and was robbed of a genuine chance of a win here.

I take this as a green light to risk all on the first lap in future and do not expect to be penalised. 



Ronnie

I don't know what happened to you, but it seems, since the start of season26, that you want to protest against every moderation; And every times, you put some doubt about the impartiality of the moderating team.

I don't think it is a good attitude and UKGPL may definitively stop when you have disgusted the full moderation team. Maybe, is it what you want  ???

Moreover, is it really so important for your life to debate about a race which occured 4 months ago ?

For your information, I will moderate Amateurs 65 serie during season27... I am sure you will not be in this serie and, from a very egoistic point of view, I am happy with that ! 


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: Cookie on July 20, 2014, 06:51:23 PM +0100
A nearly same incident happened today at Hockenheim L1T1, Magnussen - Massa  ::)

Look at the comments...


I didn't even touch you

(http://picload.org/image/lwgrgdw/kya_2.gif)

(http://picload.org/image/lwgrrld/gplc65_snapshot_1.jpg)
(http://picload.org/image/lwgrral/gplc652014-06-0511-28-28-11.av.jpg)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: BadBlood on July 21, 2014, 09:36:26 AM +0100
I think we all know that touching isn't necessary for a crash to happen but the whole point of the penalty system is to improve driving standards.

Cookie, in my opinion, got this wrong but it was marginal as if he had been 2 feet further back the incident would not have happened. In terms of the penalty applied I could have been harsher but I considered that on T1 if you are on the outside, it is only prudent to take a wide(ish) line. Ronnie could have been more co-operative and then shut the door at T2. Cookie could (and should) have been more careful but having committed to the pass on the preceding driver had to make that stick.

I make the moderations without considering who is there. The severity of the punishment (which seems to be the point of contention) is at my discretion and I did not believe that giving Cookie a full penalty was justified.

Was Cookie culpable? - IMHO yes. Was Ronnie at fault? IMHO no. Should Ronnie have taken a different line considering it was L1 T1 IMHO yes.

Had it been the other way round, the penalty would have been the same and I looked at the points table AFTER I made the moderation.

You may disagree with my summary or how harsh I have been but please do not imply that I favour the Moderation team over other drivers. I do not.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: Ronniepeterson on July 21, 2014, 04:43:33 PM +0100
Dave the moderation has only just been published so I could not comment on the forum until now.

However I have most certainly let my concerns be known regarding the impartiality, in my opinion, of the moderations at times in a calm and collected fashion via the personal message channel previously.

I cannot agree that it is acceptable behaviour to attempt a multiple pass on L1 T1 by sending your car down the inside in the hope that others will simply get out of your way and give you the racing line. If I or anyone else did this I would expect the full weight of the law to come down on them.

I repeat I'm not looking for Axl or anyone else to be penalised its one of the reasons I don't use the incident report system as it stands. BUT when myself and others are penalised for offences that are identical or possibly not even our fault (I have moved on, but an example is the F2 race Kyalami/you tell me ambitious overtake or victim of a bad rejoin?) while others appear to routinely get away lightly for identical incidents, then I consider that a less than level playing field for all.

Some people stay quiet and others voice their opinion from time to time. I fall into the latter category. I never said I was right I just offered my opinion.

To conclude I have nothing more to add other than I take on board everything you have all said here, in PM's and elsewhere; including the criticism of my racing and attitude. For my part, none of this affects how I race with any of you and I don't see why it should affect you either. The moderation process occurs post race. If you think its perfect then great. We have a fresh season about to start and some fresh faces on the moderation team. Good luck to all of you with your racing and moderating. But please, don't expect me to roll over on or off track just because you don't like what I have to say. Good luck to all again.

PS I nearly forgot, in my opinion Axl, I agree, I think the stewards got it right - Massa/Magnussen - racing incident.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 26 (2014) Professionals Trophy (65) - Kyalami - Apr 1
Post by: uli on July 21, 2014, 08:36:40 PM +0100
Although a little late, but better late than never  ;)
Many thanks for your difficult job to all stewards/admins.
And a big SRY to you and all sufferers again!
Luckily I was not the steward. When I did this job in the EOLC some years ago, I was much more strict on it.
I did it this way because online the risk is not as high as in the real motorsports – it don‘t hurts and you do not lose no money – but we lose fun and thats why I did online racing …
(I have not enough money  >:( - that's the truth …)
I regret still much what happend, shit happend, that‘s racing and to handle this belongs to this – but most important is to look forward, to our new season with fair, exciting races - like we have last season for example in Monza, Spa, …
So good luck and much fun to you all, let forget the anger. ;D
By the way I will defend my title in the ferrari again, because I change my cars only one time a year.
So a new contract with another team will only follow in 2015 and I promise it will not be lotus ...