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UKGPL => UKGPL Races => Topic started by: Billy Nobrakes on February 14, 2016, 10:17:49 PM +0000



Title: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: Billy Nobrakes on February 14, 2016, 10:17:49 PM +0000
Season 29 Amateurs Trophy - Round 7 – Hockenheim

Round 8 of the ’65 series will be staged at Hockenheim. The circuit has staged several German GPs & combines a twisting stadium section with some very long straights through the forest. Using the period layout there are no chicanes & opportunities for a tow.

Race List = iGOR
Server = UKGPL_9
IP = see iGOR
Race date = Tuesday 16-02-16
Time = 21:00 UK time (21:00 GMT)
Track = Hockenheim (ftp:////ukgpl3.dyndns.org/tracks/Hockenheim/)
Race length = 21 laps (45 minutes)
Variant = 1965
60fps patch used   = 60fpsV2newmod
Damage Model = Intermediate
Qualifying time = 30 minutes

Replays Available here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Replays/Archive/Season29/Ams/)

Driver lists can be found at the Amateurs Trophy Championship page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=514&theme=6)

Drivers are permitted one Reset / Shift R per race, followed by a compulsory Stop & Go in the pit lane within two laps. If you take your reset on the last lap 15 seconds will be added to your time. A second Shift R will result in Disqualification unless it is the direct result of the first incident e.g. hit when respawning.

Drivers are required to complete 50% distance to score points.

Until the number of registered drivers exceeds grid capacity drivers may join the server as soon as it appears in IGOR.

This Season we don't have a Red Zone. Moderating will be on reported incidents only.

Please restrict chat to pit messages including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

Password: see above


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: bernie on February 16, 2016, 12:01:27 PM +0000
HELP !

It seems GPL3 is down , cant get into SRMZ either so cant get this track  :o


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: Walter Conn on February 16, 2016, 12:31:46 PM +0000
See if this link works. I was able to navigate to it from the track database.

http://gpltd.bcsims.com/?dis=H&menu=Show_Letters

http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=9311  


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: Cookie on February 16, 2016, 12:37:22 PM +0000
The link to UKGPL_3 works fine here

UKGPL3_tracks (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Tracks/)

Take only
- hocken67_hires_v1.0  +  hockenhm_FB600x300_GIN

and for save replays: Hockenheim_cams_by_Tato



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: roguk on February 16, 2016, 08:28:50 PM +0000
Help please cannot get Hockenheim track to load, have installed twice to no avail, now shows twice in seasons, how do i uninstall so i can try track from Cookies link?


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: Cookie on February 16, 2016, 08:42:14 PM +0000
just delete or renamethe track folder!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: roguk on February 16, 2016, 09:40:21 PM +0000
Thanks Cookie deleted reinstalled and works.

New ssd drive clean install of win7 sp1  video/sound/wheel drivers installed   fresh install of GPL using gplinstall beta 1.04 plus GEM 2.5.0.32 all 60fps`s   and  77dv1 3 4 plus pribluda using Open GL V2, works fine off line next to test online.

Got track working to late to take part tonight, hope you guys have a good race see you all at Jops.

Sorry guys link please for Jops, track database link dead.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: dave curtis on February 16, 2016, 09:41:51 PM +0000
Unfortunately, was out earlier.  Did fire up the beast as soon as I got home,   but must have missed the cut-off by seconds.
Never mind;  catch you guys [on the server] next time!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: bagrupp on February 16, 2016, 10:33:19 PM +0000
what a race - grats CC

I had a good start and was side to side with carlos - who didnt see me.
Carlos unfortunately lost some time. Hard and good fighting with Martin and Johnny,
Carlos fought his way back. When we were 4 I spun entrance Motodrom and Carlos had no chance avoiding.
GPL turned my upside down and the fighting four were seperated.

In the end 3th Place, I guess a collision between Johnny and Martin as well ?

thx and cya on track


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: Johnny.P on February 17, 2016, 08:42:34 AM +0000
You are correct Bastian there was a coming together between myself and Martin we were both drifting magnificently around the long right hand turn and Martin seemed to get out of shape a little and slowed a touch...I tried to slow but contact was made. I tried to chase Carlos but he was fast enough for the win- Well done by the way a great drive.  Thanks all see you next time.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: maddog on February 17, 2016, 11:28:00 AM +0000
No problem Johnny, and more my fault for getting sideways.  Not my kind of track and usually a boring race, but it was in close company from start to finish this time.  Some good fair fighting with not too many deaths. ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: Cookie on February 17, 2016, 11:37:34 AM +0000
Grats to the podium guys!

Sorry guys link please for Jops, track database link dead.

Use my link again and you will find jops too  ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: roguk on February 17, 2016, 11:47:53 AM +0000
Jops Siffert is here  ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Tracks


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: Cookie on February 17, 2016, 12:47:14 PM +0000
Yes thats the trap...
It's anFTP link!


Try this UKGPL3_tracks (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/Tracks/)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: roguk on February 17, 2016, 03:03:42 PM +0000
Thanks for correction of link Cookie.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: Billy Nobrakes on February 17, 2016, 06:36:20 PM +0000
Great track when you are in traffic but on your own its a bit like driving on motorways linked together by a go cart tack. After the incident in the ost curve on lap  1 I had some good racing with Fabio. Was looking forward to continuing the battle with Bastian & Martin but I overran the turn into the Motordrome & lost the tow. Looks like the Brabham factory was working overtime to make enough cars for this race.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: Billy Nobrakes on March 14, 2016, 09:39:56 PM +0000
Mod report now published.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: bagrupp on March 15, 2016, 08:44:44 AM +0000
Thx for the report.

In the heat of the moment, I stopped on the approach, which i realized only watching the replay.
But it was no intention and no advantage, i agree.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: maddog on March 15, 2016, 04:58:53 PM +0000
0h 15m 39s  -  "The rules require that the Stop & Go is taken in the pit lane. Bastian did not gain any material advantage, no penalty is awarded."

I disagree with this ruling.  It has been stated elsewhere, that a driver must stop & go in a pitbox, and not anywhere in the pit lane.  It is unrealistic and an advantage to stop anywhere in the pitlane the driver chooses.  I would have finished ahead of Bastian, if he had stopped correctly.  This is the reason I asked for a penalty to be applied.

Please ask Phil on this matter, to help keep rules from changing unexpectedly.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: Robert Fleurke on March 15, 2016, 07:15:31 PM +0000
I would have finished ahead of Bastian, if he had stopped correctly.  This is the reason I asked for a penalty to be applied.

We don't think Bastian gained any advantage Martin. That's why Billy sticked with Advice.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: maddog on March 15, 2016, 08:28:56 PM +0000
Here is the rule, the way it is written :

If a driver makes a S&G but fails to bring the car to rest in the stalls. The moderator may decide an unfair advantage has been gained and consequently a time penalty may be applied equal to 3 times the number of seconds gained. Where the number of seconds gained cannot be determined with any confidence, the moderator may decide to impose a standard 5 second penalty. This is cumulative so a driver making a late S&G and failing to stop close enough to the pit wall may incur two 5 second penalties during the one stop.

The driver stopped well before the pit stalls started.  If a car stops before the stalls, and the on track cars continue to accelerate, past the point the stop is taken, an unfair advantage will be gained by the incorrect stopper.  Perhaps the advantage was considered not enough for a penalty?  Was it more than 0.25 seconds?  Yes, as this amount is only a blink of an eye.  It also takes more care, and more time to stop in the correct area.

The rule also suggests that, "  . . failing to stop close enough to the pit wall . . ."  may incur by itself, a 5 second penalty.  If a pitstall is not required, we need to know how far from the pit wall is Ok.  :shifty:


  


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: maddog on March 20, 2016, 07:02:54 PM +0000
I do not find this matter serious enough, to make an Appeal.  It could fast become a problem for Moderating.  Until now, most have expected the same simple stop & go rule, as used by other Leagues. 

Drivers reading this and checking the replay, will realize there's good advantage to be gained, by not stopping in a pitbox.  It's now possible to stop AT LEAST as far as the replay shows.  Maximum distance has yet to be decided?

I recommend this rule stops, and go's to new wording.  The words should say, "All cars must stop in the pitbox/pitstall area."  This would prevent driver confusion, and future problems for Moderation.  Without this change, measuring sticks and stopwatches will soon be needed. ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: bernie on March 20, 2016, 09:51:23 PM +0000
You could say its taking the pits  ;D

agree this rule needs some clarification , bear in mind there are pit stalls in use with no apron and some with no stalls at all .

perhaps a demo tape c/w diagram ?

 


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: Billy Nobrakes on March 20, 2016, 10:22:48 PM +0000
This will be reviewed by the Mod team.
The race announcement - which has been used all Season says "... followed by a compulsory Stop & Go in the pit lane within two laps." i.e. there is no reference to pit stalls.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: maddog on March 20, 2016, 10:44:24 PM +0000
Thanks - this has changed at some point to it's present strange formula.  I suspect It's all a hairy plot, to get folks to go re-read the rules.  Reward for doing this ATM seems to be a podium. :'(  


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: Robert Fleurke on March 21, 2016, 01:42:56 AM +0000
Etiquette (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/etiquette)

Quote
Any Shift-R must be followed by a Stop and Go ("S&G") in the pits. Any Stop and Go must be taken within 2 laps of the Shift-R. A "S&G" is effectively a Timed Pit Stop of zero seconds. The rules for making Timed Pit Stops are here. The section describing how to perform a stop is the most relevant for a Shift-R "S&G".


Found here (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/pitstops#whentoperform) (How to perform a stop)

Quote
On entering the pits, the driver should stop in the pit stall area, not on the entry/exit lane. Normally the pit stall area is marked by lines but at some circuits there are several sets of lines (Mexico) whereas at others there maybe none other than the pit lane marking itself (Albi). In general cars must stop within half a car's width of the stalls regardless of the presence of stall markings. The moderator may decide to penalize a driver who gains an unfair advantage by not stopping in the appropriate area.

Drivers are not required to stop at their own pit stall; they must however stop within the stall area and in a position which does not hinder other drivers who might be trying to enter or exit the pits.

Hope this clears things up, you need to stop in one of the pitstalls. Bastian did not do a correct S&G. But we felt Advice would do. At that point of the race it wasn't a position deciding advantage, if there was any.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: maddog on March 21, 2016, 08:38:28 AM +0000
It's nice to see the correct rule dug up, and in full flower.  When individual race instructions and the rulebook conflict, I would guess the more immediate race regulations come 1st.  But be aware you are overruling the rulebook when doing this, and expecting your drivers to both read and drive.  ;D

I would guess 2 or 3 seconds was gained by the victim of all this speculation, Bastian.  As you know, it's not possible to rewind the tapes, and continue the race, with our dastardly offender 2 or 3 seconds back down the road.  Penalties are applied at race end.  I shall consider writing to the Houses of Parliament in London, about this. 


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: bagrupp on March 21, 2016, 09:22:32 AM +0000
Well Martin,

i remember you short cutted with all 4 Wheels in the motodrom about 5 Times,
this should be 2-3 Seconds as well.

We should just race and not look at every little thing like in f1 ourdays.
If you go on like this I will report your short cutting as well.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: bernie on March 21, 2016, 11:14:22 AM +0000
Quote
Quote
Any Shift-R must be followed by a Stop and Go ("S&G") in the pits. Any Stop and Go must be taken within 2 laps of the Shift-R. A "S&G" is effectively a Timed Pit Stop of zero seconds. The rules for making Timed Pit Stops are here. The section describing how to perform a stop is the most relevant for a Shift-R "S&G".


Found here (How to perform a stop)


These rules although mostly relevant today were really designed to accommodate the extended pit stops that we used for the "old"  handicap system

Is anyone still use GPL wait ? not sure if it runs alongside pribluda , could be wrong though , I haven't tried it scared to upset my GPL 



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: maddog on March 21, 2016, 12:38:47 PM +0000
We should beware of complications, where they are not needed.  Almost everyone has been using the usual expected, clearly defined pitstall method, with a zero second wait.  First time I've noticed someone using this new idea.  It does not work well.

And Bastian, I am sorry for my mistake.  This chat and missed penalty would not have happened, if I realized there was not one more lap, at race end.  :-X


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: Robert Fleurke on March 21, 2016, 02:16:41 PM +0000
This will be reviewed by the Mod team.
The race announcement - which has been used all Season says "... followed by a compulsory Stop & Go in the pit lane within two laps." i.e. there is no reference to pit stalls.


The Etiquette/Pitstop pages account for this. One needs to stop in the pitstall area (officially at least half a car width close to one of the pitstalls), see my previous post. We might have to put it into the race announcements in the future.

I always do expect drivers to stop in one of the pitstalls, and have moderated this way.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 29 (2015-16) Amateurs Trophy (65) - Hockenheim - Feb 16
Post by: Phil Thornton on March 28, 2016, 10:03:59 PM +0100
Gents

Sorry I'm a bit late joining this debate but if I may add my thoughts.

To understand the "S&G in the stalls" rules you have to go back to the days when we did chassis levelling with Pit Stops.  In those days drivers who took the faster cars had to make at least one and sometimes two timed stops per race.  When you take into account that we also allowed unlimited resets which had to be followed by a S&G, you can imagine the pit plane was very busy.  Sometimes drivers would stop outside the stalls and block the pit lane, others would loose a lot of time trying to stop exactly in their own stall. We had lots of complaints about drivers gaining an unfair advantage so we introduced some rules to try to make the Pit Stops consistent and hence fairer.  These Pit Stop rules also applied to a pit stop of zero seconds, which is a S&G.

The rules have always been there but I admit they are a bit hard to find.  The link to Pit Stops (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/pitstops) is under Chassis Levelling on this page (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/structure).  

To make things easier to find, I've put links to the pit stops page under "Failing to take Stop & Go after Shift-R" and "Incorrect S&G" on the penalty guidelines page (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/penalties) and clarified the guidelines to highlight the fact that a S&G should be considered to be a Pit Stop of zero seconds and hence the rules about how to perform a Pit Stop also apply to a S&G.

This doesn't stop the divisional moderator using a different approach for their divisions.  So any moderator can say stop in the pit lane if he chooses to do so provided the rules are clearly stated on the championship page (where the "Drivers and Standings" table is located) or in the race announcement.  Having said that, using the "default" rules tends to be less confusing for the drivers, especially for drivers who race in multiple divisions when it can be quite hard to remember what the division specific rules are whilst racing hard with the adrenaline pumping ;).

Regards

Phil