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UKGPL => UKGPL Races => Topic started by: Cookie on April 24, 2016, 11:13:44 PM +0100



Title: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Cookie on April 24, 2016, 11:13:44 PM +0100
CanAm 66 Funrace at Monza

To have some fun with the new cars GPL has, we will do a little Friday series with the CANM66 mod.

As a little recreation after the Nürburgring we will race at the legendary and well known Monza circuit.
The Autodromo Nazionale Monza is a race track located near the city of Monza, north of Milan, in Italy. The circuit's biggest event is the Formula One Italian Grand Prix. With the exception of 1980, the race has been hosted there since the series's inception.

Free car choice and no restrictions, but try to drive like gentlemen and let's all have fun!


Race listiGOR
ServerUKGPL_8
IP addresslook at IGOR
Date29-04-2016
TrackMonza Papy
ModCANM66 with 60fpsV2newmod
Damage INT long
Race timeRace starts at 21:30 UK time
Qualifying ~45 minutes, starting ~ 20:45 UK time
Race length32 laps
Replay here (ftp://ukgpl3.dyndns.org/replays/Archive/Season30/FunRaces/)


GLA and have FUN


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: maddog on April 29, 2016, 07:17:43 PM +0100
Your attention please - track announcement - anyone driving a Chaparral at this race, may wish to grab the eagle folder, and pull out a virtual mirror file, residing therein.  Make a photocopy, and paste it under the drivers seat, in the eagle folder.

This is an open race - anyone seen to be racing with a roof, will be instantly zapped with a DQ.  :angel: I thank you.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Cookie on April 29, 2016, 07:56:31 PM +0100
If you want to try the fastest car McLaren M1B here is my Monza setup (https://www.sendspace.com/file/nu6hj1)  ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: maddog on April 29, 2016, 08:25:01 PM +0100
 . . . . . All Chaparrals are virtually identical. 8)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: francesco on April 29, 2016, 10:16:49 PM +0100
I don't know if was guilt of my pedals or of the car(lola 350-Gurney)but i have burned 5 engines ,3 in qualy and 2 into the race.
I'm interested to repeat the race at Monza,if possible.

P.S.Someone of you have already seen the new Road America posted by Remy?Is fantastic.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: DLogan on April 29, 2016, 10:46:59 PM +0100
I don't know if was guilt of my pedals or of the car(lola 350-Gurney)but i have burned 5 engines ,3 in qualy and 2 into the race...

Need to ask Tommie if any of the engines are modeled as more fragile than the others.

Quote
...P.S.Someone of you have already seen the new Road America posted by Remy?Is fantastic.

Not yet, thanks for the heads-up. Off to get it now.  :)

How about using it for the next race in this series?


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Cookie on April 29, 2016, 10:51:06 PM +0100
Martin is this the Lola you drove? Maybe mapped wrong...

WOW, what a race ;D ;D ;D

The works McL is just too fast for the Chap, but was fun seing Mark having troubles every Para braking ;D
Shame Greg messed Lesmo1...


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Mark Jones on April 30, 2016, 01:02:24 AM +0100
Yeah that was great.  I learned a lot working on the setup for this race, and the car is a lot more stable now.  But yes it's still a bit active under braking.  I fell back to 4th and had to settle down and catch back up again, but I had a great top speed.  Very happy!   8)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Tom van Ostade on April 30, 2016, 07:28:29 PM +0100
Sorry I was too late :( . I was not home in time from a congress in Hannover to catch the race start.

Hope to make the next race, hopefully at Road America Elkhart Lake! I don't think it's released yet, though? Couldn't find anything.

The Chaparral 2E is the most fragile car of the mod, comparable to the Papyrus 1967 Lotus 49. The Gurney Lola Ford is less fragile, but has more gears so if you're having trouble with your pedals switching gears, the engine will fail if you redline the engine during gearshifts. The Chaparral only has two gears so is kinder that way. The Chevy's are more reliable, plus most Chevy's only have four gears instead of the Gurney Lola's five. You spend more time switching gears in the Gurney Lola anyway because the Weslake heads has the engine rev much higher than the other cars, and it has a peakier power delivery compared to the Chevy's.

I asked Richard Cooke way back to set the reliability values somewhat lower compared to other mods. They are now set at Papyrus 1967 values. Most other mods have them set a bit lower I think. So if you've been taken aback by it, try not to overrev the engine during shifts. There should be no load on the drivetrain when the clutch is engaged.

Tommie.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Mark Jones on May 01, 2016, 12:22:51 AM +0100
Interesting information, thanks Tom!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: francesco on May 01, 2016, 06:09:51 AM +0100
Quote
The Gurney Lola Ford is less fragile, but has more gears so if you're having trouble with your pedals switching gears, the engine will fail if you redline the engine during gearshifts. The Chaparral only has two gears so is kinder that way. The Chevy's are more reliable, plus most

I'm particulary careful to the red line because i have burned a lot of engines in the past but with the Gurney Lola one was burned at the start from the pit.
Seem to me too fragile since is the first time that happen to burn 5 engines in one race session.Anyway the next race i use another car,the Lola Chevy already teasted at Monza.
Tested with no damage but with this car i'm 1 second faster with,more or less,the same setup.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Cookie on May 01, 2016, 10:47:51 AM +0100
The Chap E seems to have a better reliability than the F ::)

It helps to use the torque of these engines as you get a turbine like acceleration from 3000min,
so no need to rev them over the limits.

Maybe a little red mark, painted in the rev counter, helps to keep the engine healthy ;)
(https://picload.org/image/rgadailp/rev_marker.jpg)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: francesco on May 01, 2016, 10:52:01 AM +0100
Quote
Maybe a little red mark, painted in the rev counter, helps to keep the engine healthy
Could be an idea.Anyway i  opened a discussion with Richard about the Lola on the repository.Now i wait explanation.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Tom van Ostade on May 01, 2016, 04:08:58 PM +0100
The 67 Sportscars, in which the Chaparral 2F is included, have their engine inertia's set too low. This causes you to more easily (over)rev the engine. After some calculations, I'm convinced the inertia values for the 1966 Can-Am mod are set right (about four times as high as GT67). Plus the 2E only has two gears instead of the 2F's there. So I think you are right that the 2E is more reliable than the 2F, although there's probably a higher mathematical chance of other failures like suspention failure.

It's no wonder we only see engine failures in online races. To put it boldly, our gear changing sucks. Suspention failures are possible though, I once had a wheel come off at Oulton in the 65's.

Maybe I lose too much time during gear changes, but my last engine failure during an online GPL race was at Sebring in the 67 BRM in season 20. I think that was due to the bumps on the runway causing my engine to overrev. When was the last time you blew your engine when NOT changing gears?


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: GregT on May 01, 2016, 04:38:59 PM +0100
Congrats Mark and Axel!

Shame Greg messed Lesmo1...

That was only the beginning of my early woes. :) I had to wait for all the cars to pass. Great job by everybody avoiding me. I drove from Lesmos and started wondering if the car might be damaged. Instead of just resetting at Lesmos, I wasted more time by stopping before Ascari and resetting.

I don't remember how many mistakes I made trying to catch the the backmarkers. Things are happening so fast at times with this mod I can't keep up. Iestyn and another car had spun and were stopped when I passed. I was so busy looking at my line or the tach I didn't see either of them until I would have hit them if they were on the racing line. :)

It took a while to catch Dave. The first time I approached as I got some tow before Ascari I couldn't handle the understeer. I managed to hit the rail almost parallel. I got a good bounce and the only way to save the car was hit the opposite rail parallel.

Same thing happened as I caught Doni. I fell back after I couldn't handle the understeer in the slipstream. He was setting me up for a very nice lap. I closed the second time looking for a fast lap again and Doni faltered. He was a little slow through the Lesmos. It's a shame I bluffed him into a mistake the next time into Parabolica. He appeared to have driven a fine race to that point. I can't distinguish the various Lolas yet. I underestimated Doni's. I had braked early enough that I could easily hold the inside through Parabolica. I had abandoned the attempt too. I couldn't get my nose in front. Unfortunately when I looked left Doni locked his brakes and I knew he was too late. I lifted from the brakes since I knew I could run wider into Parabolica and there was no need to allow Doni room to sweep across in front of me.

I learned a lot working on the setup for this race.  But yes it's still a bit active under braking. 

I'm getting better with my setup too. :) My setup is good. My problems were the driver. I practiced a couple times during the week for this one. I used the AI to get some practice with the slipstream. They're fast but not very good. They're incredibly slow in the middle of Curva Grande and Follmer rear ended me 3 times entering Parabolica in a novice length race. I didn't cuss him, like Surtees in his Honda, since I now know how silly the AI can be. No good race practice with them, but at least a little example of some slipstream.

I was regularly fishtailing into Parabolica. :) It was manageable this week. I need more front brake bias with this mod. I use 51-54% with all the other mods. 55% is much better for me than the 54% I had been trying with CA66. I still haven't tried 56% but I suspect that's too much since I locked my inside front wheel at times entering Parabolica.

I can put in some good laps with this car now but I still can't say I can race it well. I like it though. It's fun.

There should be no load on the drivetrain when the clutch is engaged.

I often do not do that. :lol: Luckily I haven't had much trouble with engine damage so far. It usually comes from an accident. I lift, shift and get back on the throttle. I can get abusive with the drivetrain shock trying to get the clutch to engage at a maximum rpm such 11k in the 312. I use 7200 rpm with the M1B. As long as I don't do it constantly and keep the engines under a set rpm, I don't have many problems.

Thanks guys. I appreciate the racing.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Cookie on May 01, 2016, 05:06:51 PM +0100
I cannot drive these setups, so mine are still much inspired by my GT setups and my BB is 50!!!

(https://picload.org/image/rgadprpl/chape_mza.jpg)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: GregT on May 01, 2016, 05:26:11 PM +0100
You're weird Axel! I don't like toe-in on the front. Funny thing is you gave me a Mirage setup for Imola that I ran well. I copied it for other tracks. And of all the GT world records, I am closest to the Mirage record at Brands Hatch with a setup based on yours with toe-in. :) The toe-in was terrible when I went to Nurburgring in the Mirage. Once I used some toe-out there I started getting some consistency but no real increase in speed yet. I tried toe-out with the Mirage at Brands Hatch but couldn't beat me PB there yet.

I'd guess the toe-in is allowing you less front brake bias. The differing car may play some effect too. I can run 51% front brake bias with the Cooper while needing 53-54% on the same track in the Ferrari.

It's interesting how we go about things in different ways.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: GregT on May 01, 2016, 05:30:49 PM +0100
Oh, and I'm still trying to exorcise all my Mirage setups with toe-in. :lol:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Tom van Ostade on May 01, 2016, 06:34:36 PM +0100
Martin is this the Lola you drove? Maybe mapped wrong...

WOW, what a race ;D ;D ;D

The works McL is just too fast for the Chap, but was fun seing Mark having troubles every Para braking ;D
Shame Greg messed Lesmo1...

Martin drove the big Surtees Lola Chevy 359. It has sidedraft Webers instead of the normale upright ones :) .


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Cookie on May 01, 2016, 06:51:18 PM +0100
So this is the same car   :o

But he drove the 333 at the Nürburgring... 

(https://picload.org/image/rgadwcia/359.jpg)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Cookie on May 01, 2016, 06:57:42 PM +0100
My experience with toe in in front is, that it allows deep + stable braking into a corner.

Nearly all my setups have this, making a setup I allways test the difference to a toe out setting.
But I find it almost allways better for my driving style.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Cookie on May 01, 2016, 07:06:52 PM +0100
Seems we will get no UKGPL track records with the CA66 mod, as the cars are "group 7" like the CA71 ::)

Just discussing this with Gizmo...


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Tom van Ostade on May 01, 2016, 07:21:45 PM +0100
I'm not sure about Martin's car at the Nürburgring, but at Monza Martin ran the 359. His car livery is the one Paul Hawkins ran at Bridgehampton. Funny detail: the doors and bonnet were provided by none other than sir Stirling Moss :) . Seems like it was a last minute job and Moss was happy to help out.

(http://www.racingsportscars.com/tn/photo/1966/TN_Bridgehampton-1966-09-18-025.jpg)
http://www.racingsportscars.com/chassis/photo/SL71__38.html


Axel, I made a quick edit to the cst to make all 3 letter car abbreviations unique. These abbreviations show in the GPL Export webpage. Here it is:

http://www.grandprixlegends.co.nf/files/CA66/canm66_server_car_abbreviations.cst

Place in your D:\Sierra\GPL\Mods\GEM+ folder. Only for servers! No harm done really if you install it as a client, but it'll look a bit cluttered.

Here's an example of an export page:

http://www.grandprixlegends.co.nf/files/CA66/CA66_server_car_abbreviations.html

CHA = Chaparral
GEN = Genie
L33 = Lola Chevy 333
L35 = Lola Chevy 359
L30 = Lola Ford 305
L42 = Lola Ford 427
M1A = McLaren-Elva Mk I
M33 = McLaren-Elva Mk II Chevy 333
M36 = McLaren M1B Chevy 361
M28 = McLaren-Elva Mk II Ford 289

Hope it helps to keep the cars apart :) .

Tommie.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 30 - CanAm 66 - Monza - Apr 29
Post by: Tom van Ostade on May 02, 2016, 05:13:51 PM +0100
I've made a set of virtual mirrors. See my sig.