SimRacing.org.uk

Despite the title of the post, this is more about next year but all comments looking back or forward are welcome.

As we wind down Season 30, thoughts are turning to next season. The 31st could be very special indeed as 2017 will mark the 50th anniversary of the original 1967 cars & indications are the 1955 Formula 1 mod will be released around Christmas !!!

This thread is an open invitation for the membership to share their views on what you like, what you don’t like or how the UKGPL community can be improved.

Over the past few seasons we have run a very busy schedule of races on Tuesday, Friday & Sunday. To run the programme requires a lot of work by the moderating team & is dependent the availability of private servers which are currently provided by Cookie & Jethro. Both are willing to provide servers for next season but do need to reduce their workload. The proposal is therefore to reduce the calendar to two race nights - Tuesday & Sunday. (Also noting that attendance for Friday races has been dwindling).

The main challenge becomes which car sets / championships do we run? We will shortly be setting up some polls but some options suggested by the mod team are;

1967 Anniversary season – keep to the existing format of a 10 race championship with 1967 cars on alternate Sundays. We would keep the tokens system & probably run the actual tracks from the 67 championship.
Or, perhaps closer the to real thing where drivers of the day turned out in a variety of different cars run the 67 F1 cars, 67 F2 cars & 67 sports cars? F1 cars might be once a month with second Sunday’s alternating between F2 & tin-tops.

The new ’55 mod is expected to be popular & likely deserving the other two weekly slot on Sunday.

What to do on Tuesdays – do you prefer a conventional season in one chassis or a series of races where we rotate all mods; 1965, 1966,  1967F2, 1969X & the various Can Am & sports cars?

We will take a vote on single mod series or mixed mods. There will be a second poll asking for your favourite & second favourite mods to get an idea of preferences.

The format of the races is good, as well as the system of the tokens.

The mod 66 has a lot of success, and so I propose to create a championship on 16 races, which would require us to use all cars ...

Tuesday: mod 66 all year round 2017
Tuesday: alternately, on 10 races, mod 65, and at the end of the championship mod 65, we move to mod 55.

Sunday: mod 67, obviously + another mod

I spoke with dave rainier and I'm ok to help the administrators. View with Dave for details

First of all I'd like to say a big thanks to all the mods for making season 30 possible. I'd echo Bill's thoughts about running on Tuesdays and Sundays only. From my personal perspective running on Fridays was tricky and perhaps it was for several others which might explain the relative lack of attendance.

Although I'm not against a longer season, personally I'd prefer it to remain at 10 races. But, given the '55 mod could be released around Christmas I'd like to propose the following:

With so many mods to drive these days it's difficult to choose which ones to race if we only race Tuesdays and Sundays in our traditional format. Maybe we could prolong each season by running three/four series on consecutive Sundays and Tuesdays, instead of the usual two. That way we could run potentially increase the amount of carsets used and it's a tactic that's employed by our fellows at SRou.

I'm more of a fan of single car-set championships than mixed series. I like the idea of have a 67 championship similar to the 66s this season as I feel that was a big success. Though to get variety this does depend on whether we decide to extend the season or not with this method. I wouldn't lose any sleep if the decision is taken to use a multi-car championship  :).

Also, although I don't really have much knowledge of what goes on behind the scenes, if UKGPL wishes for any additional help with moderating, I'd be happy to help out next season  :).

For my great season, don't change much.

55er Mod of course let's try when it's ready.

Thank you for another season of racing! I couldn't participate that much but hope to be on track more this coming season.

My vote for mods goes to:

65, 66 on tuesday

67, F2 on sunday.

Perhaps we could try out some new things in the offseason. We haven't tried the 1967 Historical mod carsets yet, for instance. Also, could we try out some new tracks? I did a little number crunching, and out of all the S30 championships;

78 - the number of occasions a race was organised at a track I've already raced at previously

2 - the number of occasions a race was organised at a track I have not raced at previously

These tracks are:

Dragon's nest
Brno '65

It gets a little boring sometimes running the same track again and again and again, when we have a choice out of almost 600 (!) tracks :( . There must be hidden gems there that we are missing out on. Perhaps we could run some tracks backwards just for the fun of it :) .

Tommie.

+ 1  :punk:

Without my moderator's hat on, I would agree with Tommie and Phillipe.
 I would like to see more different circuits used, and quite possibly we should try and use all ( or at least most ) of the different car mods available. But that is just my personal preference.

However, there are a great many of our members who prefer to stick to cars and circuits that they know well. This may be because they do not have time to "learn" new tracks or simply find it too demanding to get up to pace on a new track every few weeks, especially if it is a new track and an unfamiliar carset.

We have in the past, tried to introduce fresh tracks for the Pros and Works, who seem more receptive to the idea of a fresh challenge. That worked fine until we tried to promote drivers from the Ams and Privateers, where they were more comfortable with familiar circuits.
The change from a majority of Papyrus original tracks, where they were competitive, to a some new circuits and stiffer competition sometimes proved too much of a step up and they either try it for a while and ask to go back, or sometimes drift away from UKGPL altogether.  So, for the mods, it is a balancing act trying to keep everyone happy.  ;)

Years ago when we had many more active members, we had the Masters series which was almost exclusively new tracks and free car choice for all. In those days we had quite a few of the alien drivers within our own ranks and the Master's series pulled in the top drivers from other leagues too who were looking for some seriously competitive racing. 
There were also the random Saturday afternoon pickup races, where a race would be put on the server and it was open to the first 19 drivers to log on. No points no championship, just a race for fun.  Back then we only had the original 67 carset, but there were a lot more people racing GPL!!! 

The moderating team will try and organise what the members want, but we need your feedback first. Please remember that we cannot please all of the people all of the time, no matter how hard we try.  ;)

No doubt we have a few festive fun races on the horizon, a perfect time to test a few of the tracks that have never been tested before.

I'd be happy to have the majority of events on familiar ground, but one or two new venues couldn't hurt I think :)

If you want some fun on guaranteed unknown ground, just join the race tomorrow...


INTERLAGOS 70' (http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=11607&#entry122042) with GTs

I can't :( . But I helped betatest it so familiar ground for me haha! I must've done a hundred laps over the last few daya, without any freezes, so I hope the track will be problem free :)

agreeto have non-standard tracks, but plz watch Blacklist, no one likes freezes and disco's:

http://forum.gplracer.eu/topic.php?id=50&

For me personally, I like new tracks - if they're good racing tracks.  What I can't cope with is all the different classes: what do we have now - 65, 66, 67, 69X, F2, GT, Can Am.  I'm not very good at setups - actually, I'm utterly hopeless at them! - so I'm quite happy sticking to 67s and 69Xs, the two classes I feel I know best.  IMO, 69X physics is brilliant, and such a lot of fun.

IMO, we should consider handicapping the fastest drivers.  The first 69X season was beset with accidents simply because you had very fast drivers and slower drivers (like me) mixed together.  (As in the real world of F1, fast drivers were surprised on how early slower drivers were braking.)  I was sad when there was no 69X league this season.

Haven't raced much this season, but fair enough on cutting down to just Tuesday/Sunday if numbers are low on Friday. What do the numbers say on attendance for each mod? Are there any clashes with other leagues on Tuesday, Friday or Sunday?

I would suggest the most popular carsets are put on the main '4' dates, then the other mods are used for the fun races in between the seasons (along with testing new tracks or server's choices). Also, if we want to avoid server crashes, then generally try to avoid older add-ons, which were made before it was widely known that gaps in the track lead to server crashes/CTDs (or race them with 36 fps).

There are many good newer add-ons and replacements (e.g. just released Interlagos '70) with more down the line (Ginetto: BA2 just released, Pedralbes for 55 mod, Le Mans Bugatti, Road America, Pescara, whatever Pablo is next working on, such as early Jacarepagua etc., the unloved Sudschleife beta, the remaining Tasman tracks someday and full IOM eventually).

I like the idea of the anniversary season for 67. It could be the full set (hopefully Ginetto Le Mans Bugatti would be released by then, if not then papy Rouen) of championship tracks, include the NC races, or even replicate the full calendar and last all of 2017. That could be 65/66, 67+/55 alternating, with the 67+ being 67, F2, GT over the full year or two seasons etc.

PS. What about rotating the 66 and 55 slot with two of 69x, can-am 66, F2 or 67x every season, or just 69x/F2 for numbers etc.

I suspect the low attendance on Friday has something to do with the mods used. The GTs and Can Ams aren't that popular. After all it's called Grand Prix Legends not Prototype Legends. If we had run the F2s and 69Xs on Friday I bet there would have been more drivers, but then I would have been likely to miss races. I'll miss racing on Friday.

I like the cars that your right foot has a heavy influence on the handling of the car. My order of preference is 67F1, 67GT, 71CA, 69X, and 66CA. Unfortunately my favorites aren't the most popular except for the originals.

If there's anything I could do to help, let me know.

Looking at the calendar seasons and UKGPL seasons, just the 11/10/8 championship rounds are probably best:

67 F1: Kyalami, Monaco, Zandvoort, Spa, Le Mans Bugatti Rouen, Silverstone, Nurburgring, Mosport, Monza, Watkins Glen, Mexico City

67 F2: Snetterton, Silverstone, Nurburgring Sudschleife, Hockenheim, Tulln Zeltweg*, Jarama, Zandvoort, Enna, Brands Hatch, Vallelunga

67 GT: Daytona, Sebring, Monza, Spa, Targa Florio, Nurburgring, Le Mans, Brands Hatch

*I'd recommend Tulln be replaced by Zeltweg 71, due to the mismatches there when we raced it in UKGPL, plus Tulln and Zeltweg airfield were just placeholder tracks in real life until Osterreichring was built in 1969 anyway.

PS. 67 GT NC rounds were Hockenheim, Mugello, Enna, Zeltweg, 'Bremgarten', 'Sudschleife'. I think Enna is the best one to add historically to make a 30 round/3 season fit for UKGPL, but the other five might give better races.

Shame the Friday league is coming to an end. It's been a great challenge and great fun. Big thanks to all the organisers, and fellow competitiors over the years.

Friday does not absolutely have to end Mark.

Big thanks to Axel, who had organised the series, but feels that he needs a break and the numbers attending the season that has just finished had dwindled to about 5-6 cars.

If enough people still want to race on a Friday, and a format can be agreed, then a server might be found. Realistically we would need around 12 members to register, which would allow for regular grids of 8-10 cars.

 Don't forget that it is possible for individuals to host races from their own PC on IGOR. If there is a small group ( 5-6) who still want to race, a decent internet connection and a high spec PC would probably handle it.

This discussion thread is all about members voicing their opinions.........so put your thoughts here.

I've run all of these before though ;D . I did like Tulln as it was a bit of a change, and I've only raced there once. The mismatches were a bit of a pain, but if there is interest, I can whip up a new installer with a new track folder so everyone runs the same track.

Same with Le Mans Bugatti, I've only run there a couple of times, but I've run Rouen a lot. Out of the NC rounds, I've not run Mugello yet. Also, Vallelunga is an awesome F2 track that I've not run much yet, but is a real stunner :) . Also Oliver's Mount is a cracker very well suited to the small 65 and F2 cars. As a contrast, we run Imola a lot, which isn't very accurate in track layout, and not much to look at. Good fun to run it every once in a while, but there has to be something out there that is as much fun but looks better as well :) .

Or perhaps some old school tracks that were very popular back in the day, but are not run today, like Road67 or something. Or perhaps a series on contemporary F1 tracks, we have Barcelona, Sepang, Suzuka and maybe others that I've still not run even once.

On fantasy tracks, there's Cerne's Wood that I've never driven.

Then there are Raul Valenzuela's tracks, which are very well suited to the small 65 and F2 cars, and all good fun.

Or maybe we could run a British season, fantasy or not, we have Cerne's Wood, Donington (30's and 90's), Silverstone Club circuit, Castle Combe, Aintree, Birmingham, Cadwell,  Lulsgate, Lydden Hill, Thuxton etc.

So much to run :) .

Watch this space regards a British series. Am thinking a British GT series. :)

Personally I am hoping to be a bit more successful with regards my participation. The lack of practice and high maintenance of MiniTM has resulted in a majority (read success) non-finishes.

From a mod choice perspective, the 67F2 and 69X mods were recently very popular in their series, but 69X races needed a lot of work moderating and 67F2 participation dwindled.

Personally, I like the original 67s and feel that using the original championship tracks would be a decent challenge (LM Bugatti included). Whilst I would like to attack the 69X cars again experience is lacking.

Instead of the 69x or F2's maybe the 67x's for the British series? Might be worth trying them out in a funrace at least. Close to original GPL but with some additional cars like the BRM P126 and McLaren M5a so might be interesting.

To be honest, I am also tired of racing the same old rank tracks, but I'll just go with what the majority wants - it's not too hard for me to tweak a setup in qually at a new track e.g. Estoril (but please lets never race that icy track ever again!), but the old tracks all have setups ready to go.

Testing the 55 mod, I had an idea to split the races into an F1 season and 'British F1' season, which is kinda how things were back then anyway, judging by the entries.

British calendar: Goodwood (maybe use e.g. Thruxton instead to avoid discos), Silverstone, Donington (for repeat Snetterton), Brands Hatch (for Davidstow), Crystal Palace, Charterhall, Snetterton, Aintree, Oulton Park, Castle Combe. Am I missing any big UK tracks?

It did occur to me that ( just for the hell of it), we could run a fun series with 2 x 25 minute sprint races each evening using the original Pappy tracks.

First race would be normal direction with 67 GP cars, second race reverse direction with F2's. Everyone would know the circuits and have them in their season folder and the setups ought to work ( mostly), maybe any asymmetric setups would need reversing too. Running a track in reverse effectively gives us twice as many tracks to choose from  ::)

I would like to keep Tuesdays as 65s as its the only night I can almost guarantee to be there. The Ams have some good races in 65s and bigger numbers will always help of course.

I would like to try Sunday 67s too which I should be able to make most of the time but won't be too put out if they are changed for something else.

Outside of that I am looking forward to the 55s, have never tried 66s or F2s and I am not that fond of the GT mod as the cars have a tendency to lock wheels with me driving.

Other than that I am grateful for the race servers, knowing how time consuming being a mod can be.

I would like to propose an annual modGT championship
Where you can run with 1 or 2 servers
2 categories
Category 1, free tokens based cars
Category 2, only Porsche
I can offer 1 server
May be the clues that Iestyn Davies has requested
With the inclusion of Tandill, which is great for modGT
And the Targa race is just the best lap of a 4-hour qualy PRO

Sounds good :) .

This seems the only place for silent racers to find a voice, 1 or 2 times each year.  But the race results section where everyone goes, never points to this. ::)

FRIDAY PORSCHE :

JonnyO and Tommie suggest a Porsche only GT series - this has happened before.  Two grids worked Ok.  One grid less so.  Teams became a big deal for points and a handicap attempt, but made drivers more aggressive.  There was much unhappiness.  It ended, as Fridays since have ended, with few racers, but might be Ok for 1 Season only.  

HANDICAPS :

I think Friday racing on 1 grid, needs a full handicap.  This suggestion has been made before.  Half-hearted handicaps give front runners good racing, while sad rear racers disappear.  Here is a Ukgpl handicapping system according to one Moderator last month :

"The tokens system applies, but there has been an option to introduce a further handicap in
the event that faster drivers were running away with the series."  

Tokens are NOT a '67 handicapping system, unless the Championship has only 1 race?

Handicapping that is not predetermined, will make some think racing at Ukgpl is unfair.  And a voluntary handicap rewards those who ignore it.  I mostly ignore Ukgpl ATM, and one reason is poor handicapping.

Perhaps more new ideas are needed?  I invite Tommie to apply for a place in the Moderating team. A good racer and a man with ideas.  ;)  

I would love to help with moderation, but time is lacking :( . Also this coming february I will become an intern at a company to aid in my Mechanical Engineering degree, so I don't know how that will pan out with regards to time. But I'm happy to throw some ideas out there :) .

I would like a mixed token-based GT grid more than a Porsche spec race, but I'd take it :) . However I think Greg is right when he says the prototypes are not too popular, so we have to be careful what to chose as we have only a limited amount of race-evenings available :) .

Tommie.

If only YOU were in charge 8)

Before any serious competition takes place, I'd suggest to try Lee's Weather Patch and Olaf's Pitstop Patch (and NightFog!!) on a well-known track like Silverstone or Kyalami.

Weather patch adds fog and changes the grip (according to server settings).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrZ0lTV-ozI

NightFog adds black fog (according to client settings).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FarxnVKzi_c

Olaf's patch simulates tire wear, punishes resets, etc.
http://www.eolcreplay.de/download/Pitstop_e.html (Site is safe!)
Readme at http://www.eolcreplay.de/download/ReadmePit.txt

It is necessary to explain my comment better
I like the idea of an annual GT championship, 1 race per month

But that the 2 categories run together

It will only separate if it exceeds the number of 19

So I believe that 1 or 2 races with 2 servers

The main category will use non-porsche cars, tokens system

Category 2 using only porsche

Separate points table
GT races are so, different categories run together
 

A race at Silverstone in December in the rain? well if you think its realistic?  :whistling:

I'm not sure about the "fog" patches?? Are these really adding a mist and limiting the visibility??? Maybe these would work for the GT's as that could be more realistic for longer races...and of course for 24hr races nightfog would add an extra dimension. But I need to be convinced about fog and the open wheeled GP cars.

Of all of the recent patch offers for GPL, surely Olaf's which gives us tyre wear, and allows resets but at a cost, ought to be something that we should trial if we are serious about "simulated" racing??

I have always been a little uneasy about GPL which allows us to thrash a car for the whole race without any deterioration in the tyres. Now I am aware that the great Jim Clark could make a set of tyres last more than one race, but I know that my usual driving style would certainly leave more rubber upon the tarmac than the rims.  ::)

I hear that the new55 mod has maybe incorporated brake and tyre wear in an attempt to make things more realistic, so for me it would make sense to expand that to the other mods?? The reset punishment might be preferable to a straight "end of race" and quit scenario that the pro drivers currently face.

The only problem that I can see is how you check that all drivers are using the patch? it might be possible to join a race without the patch installed and have a considerable advantage??

The 55mod will have real brake fading, so you have to manage the brake temperatures and use very carefull.

Tire wear was no problem in these days, so the 55s and 67s could do several races with the same set of tires!

Weather Patch and Olaf's patch is checked when you join the server. Nightfog is not checked - that's up to gentlemen only :)

 ;) I will not race under fog patch , I know it and it's realy no fun for me, I can't see the interest of it  , same for night mod ( exept maybe for GT mod in LeMan ....for exemple )... GPL is dificult ( see all the DNF ....) why add more dificulties ? ....I think it's more interesting to race on reverse track like Ocanom ....Aznom ....or new tracks...?!....I'm also not for the mixed mods ...( to mutch training for me )

About the last season I must said it's the best one for me :) .....it was not so easy , whith 6 champs in same time ... but what a fun !...
thanks to all racers and org......
I don't know if I will be able to defend my 3 Couronnes next season ....will depends of few things....;)
 
Marry Christmas and Happy New Year folks ;)

I've not much to comment upon re S30.  My thanks to the admins, organizers and moderators.

Only real thing that comes to mind was the 'Group' classification introduced for the Works series.  A laudable enough concept to help put a rein on the top guns but it wasn't followed by anyone including me.  Not wishing to punch above my weight, I always ran the weaker chassis and went into the last race...Dragon's Nest...with fully 68 tokens in the bank.  Just drop the Group thingie altogether and stick with the long-established token exchange programme.

As for S31, the Works Championship should remain as the primo concern and for good reasons.  It's the foundation of GPL and draws the hotshots.

Between GP65 and the F2 mods which are quite similar in performance, the former is preferred as it offers a variety of chassis and powerplants.  The F2 mod is largely a Cosworth FVA spec series and to my mind, less appealing as a result.

As for the GP66 and GP69X mods, the former wins out over the winged models due to it's vast variety and character of chassis/powerplants.  That the 69X mod also incorporates three 4WD chassis that in no way perform as the real models did is a most damning factor.

Edit: Not stated initially but as I do like the wide variety of the GP66 options available, I would prefer it above the GP65 mod typically used for the 'Pro Series'.

For fendered mods, we have the GT, CanAm66 and CanAm71 mods.  I think that the CA66 mod should trump the CA71 even if only becasue its fresh and new.  The GT mod is always popular especially for events that feature a refuel option.  Admins should be careful to apply the v22 patch for this twist as it much better reflects reality in gassing up.

To review, I prefer that S31 feature...

Works and GP66 on alternate Sundays.  Pro damage a must.

CA66 and GT on alternate Tuesdasy.  Pro damage preferred.

Friday races...if run at all...for pickups of GP69X and CA71 mods.  Resets allowed(if you must but personally, I think that they are a crutch).

My only comment is that i enjoyed the format for 67 ams and 65 s S30 and think this should stay the same . the only thing I would like to see changed is the race distance , which for me is too long , perhaps 75% 0r even less would be best , my problem is being able to race over the current distance without becoming so knackered that I find it too difficult to concentrate and do race speeds and at the same time watching other cars racing or lapping me .

I dont think a shorter race would change things as far as the results are concerned , most races the finishing order is determined over the first 10 - 15  laps or so.

Perhaps a series for us geriatric racers would be good  :)

'Masters' series? Or should that be bus-passers? :)

Cheers,
Dave.

The message is clear. Ditch the GT mods and bring on the Mobility Scooter mod!

Got the T shirt & the bus pass , also claim to be one of the few GPL'ers who get a free TV licence . Oh the perks of us old codgers !

Just a thanks for the efforts of all the organizers/moderators/admins over the last year, and a Happy New Year to all.  :)