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UKGPL => UKGPL Races => Topic started by: EvilClive on October 22, 2017, 12:29:36 PM +0100



Title: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: EvilClive on October 22, 2017, 12:29:36 PM +0100
1955 Grand Prix – Season 32 – Round 3– Indianapolis

A complete change of scene from Monaco to Indianapolis. From winding streets and tight corners on the edge of the Mediterranean, to The Brickyard in middle America!! Brakes should not be an issue here unless you are planning a stop in the pits. Slipstreaming will be the name of the game, but please be careful, the potential for a multi car incident cannot be underestimated.

Carefully read the rules on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=620&theme=6).
 
Unlimited Shift R are allowed but should be followed by Stop & Go’s in the pits within 2 laps.

Race list
iGOR
Server UKGPL_9
IP address look at IGOR
Date 24-10-2017
Track Indianapolis  1999 (Track Folder ims - Get Track here (http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=3794))
Mod 55F1 with 60fpsV2newmod
Damage INT long
Race time ~ 21:30 UK time
Qualifying 20:45 UK time - 45 minutes
Race length 45 laps
Replay here

Please restrict chat to emergency messages only including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

Password: see above
Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page

Handicapping and chassis allocation.
This season the 1955 Grand Prix cars will be using a token system which allows drivers to purchase any chassis of their choice for a given number of tokens as published on the championship standings page. Drivers classed as Amateurs will be allocated an additional 10 tokens.  The token allocation will not be managed in SRou this season so (unlike the 67F1 Works and 67F1 Privateer divisions) the tokens available to each driver will not appear in the championship table (when the mouse pointer is hovered over the driver's total).  Rather, the available tokens will be published in the race announcement.  See below.

Available Tokens:
Note: These are the tokens available to each driver before the 10 tokens are added for making the race start

Driver   TokensStatus
Robert Fleurke   
10
Pro
EvilClive
15
Pro
Ronniepeterson
30
Pro
DLogan
13
Pro
FullMetalGasket
15
Pro
Doni Yourth
15
Pro
Clive Loynes
30
Pro
Samb
25
Pro
MagicArsouille
18
Pro
Turkey Machine
10
Pro
GregT
15
Pro
Carlos Cendejas
10
Pro
Billy Nobrakes   
18
Am
maddog
15
Am
bagrupp
17
Am
Geoff65
20
Am
Jeep
20
Am
Gareth
20
Am
Rainier
17
Am
Phil Thornton
25
Am
dave curtis
16
Am
francesco   
20
Am
ReiverEcosse
30
Am
Syd Drake
20
Am


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Clive Loynes on October 22, 2017, 01:09:52 PM +0100
45Laps!!!

Is there a comfort break?


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: EvilClive on October 22, 2017, 02:30:31 PM +0100
I can provide a strong elastic band???
Actually 45 laps at less then 1 minute a lap =sub 50 mins which is our normal target race length.......I could up that to 50 laps  ::)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Doni Yourth on October 22, 2017, 02:52:37 PM +0100
MUMMA MIA!  :(  Laps at sub-1 minute, Evil?  Guess I'd better sharpen my pencil.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Clive Loynes on October 22, 2017, 03:33:55 PM +0100
I would have thought that a 1:04 in training would be more likely and perhaps a 1:03 in the race or practice.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Cookie on October 22, 2017, 03:39:51 PM +0100
I would have thought that a 1:04 in training would be more likely and perhaps a 1:03 in the race or practice.
Yes, as long we are talking about the IMS track, the laps are not yet sub 1 min ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: EvilClive on October 22, 2017, 03:59:13 PM +0100
 ;)  Wishful thinking on my part guys to be sub 60 secs with a good tow, which is why 45 laps felt about right to be just under 50 mins for the race.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: ReiverEcosse on October 23, 2017, 08:59:52 AM +0100
I'm very keen to see how much of a difference a tow makes here having not lapped with anyone else yet.

My main concern is my engine which is running stupidly hot, and keeping sliding on entry of T1 and T3 to a minimum as that's just slaying my right front tyre.

Still, I feel better about this than Monaco which was misery personified for me.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Clive Loynes on October 23, 2017, 10:18:01 AM +0100
I'm very keen to see how much of a difference a tow makes here having not lapped with anyone else yet.



You could always run in 36fps mode and use the AI.

I found that Ascari in the Lancia is tough to beat.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: ReiverEcosse on October 23, 2017, 10:48:14 AM +0100
That's a good suggestion!  I might give it a go tonight.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Ronniepeterson on October 23, 2017, 06:02:42 PM +0100
So what track are we racing on Indy, Indy67, IMS?????


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Clive Loynes on October 23, 2017, 06:23:49 PM +0100
My track folder says ims.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Phil Thornton on October 23, 2017, 06:49:12 PM +0100
IMS - race announcement updated - praccy server is up on IGOR


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: ReiverEcosse on October 23, 2017, 09:59:10 PM +0100
Well we just had a good practice blast.  No idea how to get it down to the 1:03s though.  That's insane quick.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Cookie on October 23, 2017, 10:04:07 PM +0100
Don't take the heaviest car...


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Clive Loynes on October 24, 2017, 08:50:20 AM +0100
Don't take the heaviest car...

Hmm............  Interesting.  The corners are a bigger proportion of this track than first meets the eye.

Arriving at turns one and three with more speed doesn't seem to help much as the SL doesn't have any more grip than the others and thus takes more turning due to its weight.

Must investigate the other options.   ;D

Since brakes are not required perhaps I can wind up the elastic band in the Gordini really tight!   ::)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Doni Yourth on October 24, 2017, 12:50:32 PM +0100
Before we dive into the lion's mouth later today, I'd just like to say that I'm really pleased to see this on the sked.  Not a proper Grand Prix venue by any means but back in the day, the Indianapolis 500 Sweepstakes race was part of the WDC.  In my '55 mod trials some time ago, I managed speeds that would have put our mod cars on the grid so why not give this a try?  Thanks, again...  :)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Clive Loynes on October 24, 2017, 08:07:12 PM +0100
Well, if it were not for the fact that this race is part of the season I just wouldn't bother with it.

I just do not have a clue when it comes to ovals!  >:(

Damage limitation is all I can hope for!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: EvilClive on October 24, 2017, 08:50:05 PM +0100
Just turn left......sounds simple enough!! :wacko:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Will Tway on October 24, 2017, 10:21:56 PM +0100
Not the return I was hoping for. So sorry to Dean in T2 and anybody else I caused harm to. Went over the wall and bailed before causing more harm. Hope to improve as the season goes on.

Cheers,

Thanks Cookie for hosting.

Will


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Ronniepeterson on October 24, 2017, 10:27:50 PM +0100
Thanks to all for some good racing. A few too many unfortunate contacts which slowed mine and other peoples progress, but no hard feelings here. Grats again to Sam, Axel and Clive (fill her up next time!!!!!!!).


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Clive Loynes on October 24, 2017, 10:28:15 PM +0100
Just turn left......sounds simple enough!! :wacko:

I really do hope that I never have to do that again!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: ReiverEcosse on October 24, 2017, 10:28:41 PM +0100
I have to apologize to Carlos who I tagged coming into turn one or three (they all blurred together).  Big wreck and he was going really well.  I'm sorry pal!

*Edit*  It may not have been Carlos, it was whoever was in the Blue Ferrari I must apologize profusely to.

That was utterly utterly terrifying all round.  50 minutes of mental horror.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Phil Thornton on October 24, 2017, 10:34:24 PM +0100
That was utterly utterly terrifying all round.  50 minutes of mental horror.
Great result in only your third race!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Samb on October 24, 2017, 10:37:56 PM +0100
Woohoo! A Grand Slam  ;D. Probably won't achieve that ever again so I'll milk it for what it's worth  ;).

I've never driven round an oval in a competitive race before (there was a fun race a while back and I remember doing terribly!), so did some bed time reading on how to setup a car for an oval. It seemed to do the trick. The Merc was great to drive this round, with easy controllable slides without the front right suffering too much on the temperature front.

Managed Pole after a generous tow and spent the first half of the race desperately trying to distance myself between Clive. That was a hopeful thought; Clive never left my mirrors. Sadly he had to fuel save in the latter half which allowed me to break free and have a clear run to the flag.

Thanks all for being generous towards being lapped. Towards the end Dean, Bastian and Reiver were having a battle royale for 5th place. I had a grandstand seat, but with the three of them battling hard in each other's slipstream I didn't have the legs to overtake! All seemed reluctant to lift off (understandable considering the circumstances with so few laps to go) so eventually backed off to allow them another lap of battling. Always glad to bag another win all the same.

Congrats to Axel and Clive for their podium slots. Special mention to Reiver for an excellent 5th. Well done!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: ReiverEcosse on October 24, 2017, 10:38:05 PM +0100
That was utterly utterly terrifying all round.  50 minutes of mental horror.
Great result in only your third race!

I just wish it had been incident free.  The last few laps it was bagrupp and Dean and me swapping positions over fifth.  The scariest high wire act I've ever been on.  They were magnificent by the way!  No quarter asked or given.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Phil Thornton on October 24, 2017, 10:39:08 PM +0100
I have to apologize to Carlos who I tagged coming into turn one or three (they all blurred together).  Big wreck and he was going really well.  I'm sorry pal!

*Edit*  It may not have been Carlos, it was whoever was in the Blue Ferrari I must apologize profusely to.
If you are feeling particularly guilty you can always report the incident and the moderators will look at it (people normally report other drivers but you can report yourself  ;D ).  There is a link under the race results table.  Just make sure you enter the correct replay time in this format  00h00m00s.  That way the moderators will be able to find the incident you are talking about.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: ReiverEcosse on October 24, 2017, 10:39:59 PM +0100
Towards the end Dean, Bastian and Reiver were having a battle royale for 5th place. I had a grandstand seat, but with the three of them battling hard in each other's slipstream I didn't have to legs to overtake! All seemed reluctant to lift off (understandable considering the circumstances with so few laps to go) so eventually backed off to allow them another lap of battling. Always glad to bag another win all the same.

I'm glad you enjoyed the view.  From my point of view it was pant wettingly terrifying.  I'd have been more than happy if you'd decided to end it there and then!  ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Phil Thornton on October 24, 2017, 10:43:09 PM +0100
The last few laps it was bagrupp and Dean and me swapping positions over fifth.  The scariest high wire act I've ever been on.  They were magnificent by the way!  No quarter asked or given.
Yes I was watching the action from my lapped position behind Sam.  Looked pretty clean driving to me.  You've learnt a lot in 3 races.  Your real name isn't Max Verstappen is it  ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Cookie on October 24, 2017, 10:45:53 PM +0100
Oval racing is special, so you have to find a good setup of a specialist! Then it is great FUN!!!

It was fun in 3pack until I did touch the gras inside T2 and lost the tow to Sam and Clive...
Clive had fuel miscalculated so I grabbed 2nd...


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: francesco on October 24, 2017, 10:47:45 PM +0100
Some incident for me,is always difficult to understand where is the opponent on this track.
other things are that i have not seen a blue flag nor the flag for the end.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: ReiverEcosse on October 24, 2017, 10:59:23 PM +0100
It was Doni I nerfed. 

Doni, I'll report myself, that was a stupid snag and I should've given you room.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Phil Thornton on October 24, 2017, 11:02:45 PM +0100
I've loaded the chassis the drivers used into the token calculator spreadsheet.  For the next race the available tokens will be as declared in the table below (the table will also appear in the next race announcement).  The calculated values are automated but selecting the cars is a manual process so please check your tokens to make sure I haven't made a silly error.  There was no token overspend for this round so no one is disqualified.

Available Tokens:
Note: These are the tokens available to each driver before the 10 tokens are added for making the race start.

Driver   TokensStatus
Robert Fleurke   
10
Pro
EvilClive
13
Pro
Ronniepeterson
22
Pro
DLogan
8
Pro
FullMetalGasket
15
Pro
Doni Yourth
15
Pro
Clive Loynes
25
Pro
Samb
17
Pro
MagicArsouille
10
Pro
Turkey Machine
10
Pro
GregT
15
Pro
Carlos Cendejas
5
Pro
Cookie
5
Pro
Billy Nobrakes   
18
Am
maddog
15
Am
bagrupp
7
Am
Geoff65
20
Am
Jeep
20
Am
Gareth
15
Am
Rainier
17
Am
Phil Thornton
17
Am
dave curtis
14
Am
francesco   
15
Am
ReiverEcosse
25
Am
Syd Drake
20
Am
Will Tway
18
Am


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Clive Loynes on October 24, 2017, 11:23:08 PM +0100
............... so did some bed time reading on how to setup a car for an oval. It seemed to do the trick. The Merc was great to drive this round, with easy controllable slides without the front right suffering too much on the temperature front.

 

Please give a link because I couldn't find anything.   


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: DLogan on October 25, 2017, 01:44:37 AM +0100
..So sorry to Dean in T2...

No problem. I had some fun recovering.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: bagrupp on October 25, 2017, 08:53:05 AM +0100
Towards the end Dean, Bastian and Reiver were having a battle royale for 5th place. I had a grandstand seat, but with the three of them battling hard in each other's slipstream I didn't have the legs to overtake! All seemed reluctant to lift off (understandable considering the circumstances with so few laps to go) so eventually backed off to allow them another lap of battling. Always glad to bag another win all the same.


Grats !

Thx for letting us race this out. I've noticed you but i guessed you will stay behind because you had 30 seconds to second place. Glad you enjoyed it.

and thx for the racing - reiver, dean, doni, anyone. Doni and i had a little touch, afterward i touched greg who lost the tow - sorry for that-

I had a terrible setup and was slower in the corners than all others. I tried to softer the left side after the race and did some more laps but it was terrible.
I always fail in setup the cars.
Maybe someone can send me an 1955 indy setup (any car) - [email protected] - thx in advance


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: EvilClive on October 25, 2017, 09:04:06 AM +0100
............... so did some bed time reading on how to setup a car for an oval. It seemed to do the trick. The Merc was great to drive this round, with easy controllable slides without the front right suffering too much on the temperature front.

 

Please give a link because I couldn't find anything.   


Grats to Sam and Axel and to all the finishers and especially to cars that were lapped. Sorry for getting in your way over the final laps....explanation below.  ::)

I have not had much joy in the past in the couple of oval races that I have tried, but I knew the secret had to be getting the setup right. So I tried some radical adjustments to enable the cars to get turned in T1 and T3 without backing off too much or destroying the front right tyre and I think I got it somewhere near right.

If you think it might help Clive, I can send you the setups that I cobbled together for Indy. I have one for the Mazza 250F ( which I used) and also one for the Lancia that you were wrestling. The Lancia was potentially quicker, but I felt that the  250F would be more of a challenge and it could have been much more fun if I had just stuck a couple more gallons in the tank.  :-\  

The horrible truth about the fuel dawned on me around lap 15, when I glanced at the "laps to go" and the "fuel left". Alarm bells were ringing at the fuel level and a quick mental calculation told me that I needed to squeeze at least 2.5 laps from each gallon. Until that point I had been quite content to tag along behind Sam's Merc enjoying the tow, with spare revs in 5th to attempt a pass, but that would be something to try much later in the race. Even tucked in the Sam's slipstream my revs were too high and using too much gas....RATS!!!

Over the next few laps I checked how fast I was burning the gas and the answer somewhat spoiled my race. At the pace we were travelling I would not see the chequered flag!!! I considered a reset and a SnG, but that would cost a huge amount of time, so all I could do was ease back and bite my tongue ( very hard ) as Sam eased away  :no:  
Axel had dropped back after his incident and I was unsure just how much of a cushion I had. My slower pace might have compromised some of the cars that I was lapping...especially Greg (?) and Clive Loynes who I caught, but dare not pull away from. I actually wanted to find a fast tail ender to slipstream, but everyone pulled over as soon as I got in range!!! very correct, but really frustrating!!!

With around 6 laps to go I had to ease back even more as the fuel tank was looking very empty and now I had Axel closing in from his 3rd place. There was absolutely nothing that I could do to defend 2nd place and I was only at about 75% throttle on the straights and coasting into corners. The car was coughing on the last 2 laps and I I crossed the line to take a 3rd place just as the fuel vanished completely.
I guess it shows that even old timers like me can get the fuel calcs wrong, but I was quite chuffed that I did 2/3rds of the race running at reduced speed and still managed 3rd place in a car that was not an obvious choice * well that's how I see it  ;) )


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: ReiverEcosse on October 25, 2017, 09:24:16 AM +0100
Towards the end Dean, Bastian and Reiver were having a battle royale for 5th place. I had a grandstand seat, but with the three of them battling hard in each other's slipstream I didn't have the legs to overtake! All seemed reluctant to lift off (understandable considering the circumstances with so few laps to go) so eventually backed off to allow them another lap of battling. Always glad to bag another win all the same.


Grats !

Thx for letting us race this out. I've noticed you but i guessed you will stay behind because you had 30 seconds to second place. Glad you enjoyed it.

and thx for the racing - reiver, dean, doni, anyone. Doni and i had a little touch, afterward i touched greg who lost the tow - sorry for that-

I had a terrible setup and was slower in the corners than all others. I tried to softer the left side after the race and did some more laps but it was terrible.
I always fail in setup the cars.
Maybe someone can send me an 1955 indy setup (any car) - [email protected] - thx in advance


Bagrupp.  When I get home I'll send you my MercSL and Lancia setups for Indy.  I got both cars down into the mid 1:04s with them in training but was a lot lot more consistent with the Lancia.  The Merc seems to have one possible line and if you are forced to deviate from it you lose a shed load of speed.  The crucial thing is the exit speeds from turns 2 and 4, it's worth losing time in 1 and 3 as long as your line out of 2 and 4 is better, and the Lancia can be slid out of those turns hard on the power . . . the Mercedes less so (and the extra weight means it accelerates more slowly anyway).  Axel was absolutely right, weight is a killer at Indy.

I was seriously impressed by the tow here.  Normal entry speed into Turn 1 and 3 I found to be about 153-155.  Towards the end of the race with a tow while I was in that fight with Dean and yourself I glanced down on entry into Turn 3 and we were doing 170!  That's a big big difference.

I reckon with a well set-up Lancia and a relay system of three cars you could be "passed" around the circuit and dip into the 1:02, maybe even lower.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: bagrupp on October 25, 2017, 10:06:33 AM +0100
Great - thanks very much.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: francesco on October 25, 2017, 10:26:23 AM +0100
I'm also interested to understand something about setup for this track.My mail is :[email protected]


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Clive Loynes on October 25, 2017, 10:28:36 AM +0100
............... so did some bed time reading on how to setup a car for an oval. It seemed to do the trick. The Merc was great to drive this round, with easy controllable slides without the front right suffering too much on the temperature front.

 

Please give a link because I couldn't find anything.  


If you think it might help Clive, I can send you the setups that I cobbled together for Indy. I have one for the Mazza 250F ( which I used) and also one for the Lancia that you were wrestling. The Lancia was potentially quicker, but I felt that the  250F would be more of a challenge and it could have been much more fun if I had just stuck a couple more gallons in the tank.  :-\  




Yes please.  I think that in addition to all the other problems I had killed the Lancia stone dead by over gearing it but I was still losing far too much speed in the corners.
My email is on my profile.  All contributions gratefully received.   ;D

Ta


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Rainier on October 25, 2017, 10:44:22 AM +0100
Also interested by any good setup for 55 cars ! (my email should be on my profile). Thanks !

I am from far the slowest ever 55 drivers !



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Cookie on October 25, 2017, 11:16:12 AM +0100
IMO the racing line is essential for the tire temps, don't follow the dark line, but the tire marks are the ideal line ;)

my setup
https://picload.org/view/drgrogaa/lan_ims.jpg.html


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Clive Loynes on October 25, 2017, 12:05:23 PM +0100
Thanks Axel   :thumbup2:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: EvilClive on October 25, 2017, 01:18:19 PM +0100
............... so did some bed time reading on how to setup a car for an oval. It seemed to do the trick. The Merc was great to drive this round, with easy controllable slides without the front right suffering too much on the temperature front.

 

Please give a link because I couldn't find anything.  


If you think it might help Clive, I can send you the setups that I cobbled together for Indy. I have one for the Mazza 250F ( which I used) and also one for the Lancia that you were wrestling. The Lancia was potentially quicker, but I felt that the  250F would be more of a challenge and it could have been much more fun if I had just stuck a couple more gallons in the tank.  :-\  




Yes please.  I think that in addition to all the other problems I had killed the Lancia stone dead by over gearing it but I was still losing far too much speed in the corners.
My email is on my profile.  All contributions gratefully received.   ;D

Ta

I will send my Indy setups for the Lancia and the 250F to all those who asked for them later today. Please remember that they are ONLY FOR INDY, because they will be undriveable anywhere else!!!

Both setups have 4th and 5th gears very close so that in the early laps with a heavy fuel load you can drop a gear for T1 and T3 to get the nose in and not lose too much speed. It also allows you to accelerate the car through T2 and T4 using the power on oversteer to direct the car and save scrubbing the outside front tyre before shifting up to 5th for the straights  ;D

If you want the setups, but don't get them, post a reminder here  ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Will Tway on October 25, 2017, 01:45:10 PM +0100
..So sorry to Dean in T2...

No problem. I had some fun recovering.

I was so glad to see you finished well. What a drive. Well done.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: dave curtis on October 25, 2017, 02:37:59 PM +0100
That was a lot more fun than I was expecting.
I know very little about ovals.  They don't seem to offer many places to make up ground/time,  just a lot of places to lose it & therefore not many places to hide.  Although, a plus point  - there also not many trees / campervans  / hairpins to crash into either!

I was just hoping to make it to the end & not end up 5 laps down.

Had some fun sliding around at the back with some others,  probably to the annoyance of teamie DaveR.
Was hoping to be nearer the Ronnie/Fran battle at the end,   but nevermind.

I will send my Indy setups for the Lancia and the 250F to all those who asked for them later today. Please remember that they are ONLY FOR INDY, because they will be undriveable anywhere else!!!

Both setups have 4th and 5th gears very close so that in the early laps with a heavy fuel load you can drop a gear for T1 and T3 to get the nose in and not lose too much speed. It also allows you to accelerate the car through T2 and T4 using the power on oversteer to direct the car and save scrubbing the outside front tyre before shifting up to 5th for the straights  ;D

If you want the setups, but don't get them, post a reminder here  ;)

Yes, please add me to the list!  It would be interested to see the differences between your 250F honed-setup & my default!

Although admittedly I did click some of the higher gears a bit (after recently learning how to research maximum revs for each given car!)  so it would stop easily reaching 8000RPM in top way 3/4 of the way along the straight.

Although, I guess this is the oval race done with for now...

Cheers all,
Dave.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Clive Loynes on October 25, 2017, 02:59:20 PM +0100
In my total despair I forgot to say congratulations to Sam, Axel and EvilC.  It is totally beyond me at present to understand how it's done.

Also well done to Alex on a great effort in his rookie season.

I now have RSI after converting one of my setups to Axel's offering but whilst it took me to within a gnat's nadger of getting below the 1:05 barrier I'm still at a loss to get the thing to turn in properly.

What do you good folks have your steering wheel rotation set at?  I'm thinking that mine is still in tin-top mode and needs to be brought back to karting mode for these beasties!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: GregT on October 25, 2017, 03:34:12 PM +0100
Congrats Sam, Axel, and Clive. Nice job guys.

My slower pace might have compromised some of the cars that I was lapping...especially Greg (?) and Clive Loynes who I caught, but dare not pull away from.

No Clive, you didn't cause me any problems. I was struggling with a damaged car from the contact with Bastian somewhat early in the race. I may have been able to lead you better late in the race but my car appeared to be almost a second a lap slower than it should have been. Actually, you helped me. I never would have caught the non-evil Clive without your tow. It took everything I had to stay with you after lapping me. I may have been fairly fast at the end with a pristine car. I was struggling to break 1:06.5 without a tow after I had run a 1:05.7 without a tow late in practice. It's too bad you couldn't have taken the extra 2+ gallons I had at the end. I suspect damage reduced my fuel consumption.

Would somebody please post the mechanical report? I'd like to see if GPL recorded any damage from my early shunt. I bounced the car off the wall two or three times after that. It didn't seem to help the car's performance.

I probably shouldn't have moved out of Axel's way. Especially after I saw Clive's slow finish. That allowed Doni to rob me of P9.

Thanks guys.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: EvilClive on October 25, 2017, 03:50:55 PM +0100
In my total despair I forgot to say congratulations to Sam, Axel and EvilC.  It is totally beyond me at present to understand how it's done.

Also well done to Alex on a great effort in his rookie season.

I now have RSI after converting one of my setups to Axel's offering but whilst it took me to within a gnat's nadger of getting below the 1:05 barrier I'm still at a loss to get the thing to turn in properly.

What do you good folks have your steering wheel rotation set at?  I'm thinking that mine is still in tin-top mode and needs to be brought back to karting mode for these beasties!

I run all GPL cars at 5:1 steering ratio  ;D, it means that there is less work to do applying steering lock. My G25 has 220 degrees of rotation the last time that I checked.
Will be forwarding setups shortly.............when I get to my old desktop PC.  ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Clive Loynes on October 25, 2017, 03:57:30 PM +0100
Congrats Sam, Axel, and Clive. Nice job guys.

My slower pace might have compromised some of the cars that I was lapping...especially Greg (?) and Clive Loynes who I caught, but dare not pull away from.

...... I never would have caught the non-evil Clive without your tow. It took everything I had to stay with you after lapping me. I may have been fairly fast at the end with a pristine car. I was struggling to break 1:06.5 without a tow after I had run a 1:05.7 without a tow late in practice. It's too bad you couldn't have taken the extra 2+ gallons I had at the end. I suspect damage reduced my fuel consumption.



LOL  I didn't realise that Evil had towed you up behind me so I thought that you were another bloke wanting to lap me and so I let you past!  This was a double blow because I was nicely being towed along by Evil but after you went past something happened to knock me out of the tow and you were gone!  

I think that my first thoughts about this race were correct, ie that I should sit it out, but I wanted the start money.  No matter what I try I cannot put the car into a controlled drift at T1 and T3.  It must just be me and no amount of setup work will cure it.

Thanks for that info Evil.  I shall give it a go.  I'm ready to try anything.  Do you think that sacrificing a squirrel will do any good?  Only a grey one mind!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Cookie on October 25, 2017, 04:07:19 PM +0100
My setup of G27 is 420° rotation = GPL wheel sync

my steering ratio is 11 for fast tracks


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: EvilClive on October 25, 2017, 04:08:39 PM +0100
emails have been sent with setups attached.

Clive, the only thing that is known to work is ...

bend the knee, put on the fundoshi and swear allegiance to Her.  

deep down, you know it makes sense  ::)

FWIW in last night's race I was absolutely confident of staying with Sam, once we had done a few laps. The slipstream was so good and my gearing was set just about perfect, so that I could suck right up to his tailpipes on the straights without hitting the red line. In fact I was backing off sometimes.

The big question which I never got to answer was, "Could I actually get past that Silver Arrow if he did not make a mistake???". I suspect that once I pulled out of the tow I might have lost speed....but I guess we will never know , until next time lol.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: bagrupp on October 25, 2017, 06:18:37 PM +0100
Unfortunately, nothing in my inbox. :(

Can you have a look. bas[email protected]


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Doni Yourth on October 25, 2017, 06:32:31 PM +0100
Grats to Sam, Axel & Evil.  Great jobs.

So who enjoyed/hated this race venue?  To be repeated in future or never seen again?  I'd be interested to learn.

I certainly liked it.  Well...  Up to about 10 laps to go when I got 'seriously killed'.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: EvilClive on October 25, 2017, 06:57:13 PM +0100
I will re-send the setups to you bagrupp.

@ Doni.... Well for the first time I had a setup that worked on an oval ( maybe I should have worked on fuel consumption?!!) and I actually enjoyed the laps where I was running at max speed. But in terms of skill?? 

Once the setup was nailed I actually found it quite easy to lap at a constant quick pace. Unless you were involved in a 3 way slipstream battle there really isn't a lot to do, or does that sound a little big headed?  ::)



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Phil Thornton on October 25, 2017, 07:23:14 PM +0100
So who enjoyed/hated this race venue?  To be repeated in future or never seen again?  I'd be interested to learn.
I really enjoyed it, a different challenge but I'm pretty sure I had a crap setup. My front right tyre was in the 290 degrees C area for most of the race.

With regards to running IMS again, the one and only perk about being a moderator is that you get to select the tracks. So if the divisional moderator likes the track then there is a good chance you will see it again  ;)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: ReiverEcosse on October 25, 2017, 08:20:53 PM +0100
I certainly liked it.  Well...  Up to about 10 laps to go when I got 'seriously killed'.

I'm so sorry Doni!  That was as stupid a move as anyone will ever have seen.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: ReiverEcosse on October 25, 2017, 08:27:46 PM +0100
So who enjoyed/hated this race venue?  To be repeated in future or never seen again?  I'd be interested to learn.
I really enjoyed it, a different challenge but I'm pretty sure I had a crap setup. My front right tyre was in the 290 degrees C area for most of the race.

With regards to running IMS again, the one and only perk about being a moderator is that you get to select the tracks. So if the divisional moderator likes the track then there is a good chance you will see it again  ;)

I enjoyed it very much, but I've competed on short track ovals in real life and for once knew how to set up the car.  I'd be keen to see other ovals on future calendars, they all have their own characters.

I'd jump at a chance to do Langhorne, which is utterly, utterly evil.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Samb on October 25, 2017, 08:43:22 PM +0100
I enjoyed the race. It was something new to most of us. I'd agree with Clive and think the biggest challenge around here is getting a decent setup. On your own it's fairly easy to drive on the limit once you have good setup, but I guess the real skill comes from battling with fellow racers and trying to use the lapped traffic to your advantage. I wouldn't be against racing here again.

@ Clive L, The links I found were scattered throughout the web containing maybe one useful sentence here and there. I suppose the main thing was making the setup asymmetrical to help the car want to turn left. I only had negative camber on the front right. Every other wheel had positive camber to an extent. The RHS of the car was stiffer than the left, and I put the ramp angle for the power down the 30 to aid the back end to swing round.

If anyone's interested, here's my setup for the Merc: https://ufile.io/2g3s8 (https://ufile.io/2g3s8). 4th and 5th gear are close together; I tended to use 4th for the turns and 5th on the straights to save the engine more than anything. If you aim for an apex speed of 125mph with a good exit, that should be good enough for 1:04s. I found myself often slower than my fellow racers at corner entry during the race, but made it up with a good exit. Settings I use are a 12-1 steering ratio at 320 degrees on my trusty G25. I'm impressed Clive you race at 5:1! Must be like driving a go-kart  ;D.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Clive Loynes on October 25, 2017, 09:48:53 PM +0100
Thanks Sam, evilC and Axel.

@Sam have you looked at Axel's setup? He has the left harder than the right!  Obviously not an exact science.

@EvilC if it's any consolation, me old mate, you didn't have enough fuel in the Lancia either!   ;D  However, your Lancia setup did actually provide me with something that I could chuck into a drift and hold it, sometimes!  That is after I received a petition from those sitting in the front row of the stands, demanding that once I remove the insane 5:1 steering ratio.  They were fed up with being showered with hot Lancia bits.  So long as I kept it in the groove the tyres were fine. 

@Axel Sorry but I couldn't get on with your setup.  My first flying lap was good but I never got close to it again.  :(


@EvilC again, can you do me a Lancia for Spa now please?   ::)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: EvilClive on October 25, 2017, 10:14:56 PM +0100
You are not the first to be astounded at the 5:1 steering ratio and my hyper quick reflexes.......................a man can dream can't he?  ;)

Seriously though, glad you found the setup controllable and stable, and hopefully quicker than what you had before. It was only because this was an oval race and I had never had any success on ovals before that I spent a little time on this.

If I get time I might try and cobble a setup for Spa and the Lancia, just coz it's you  :shifty: :shifty:lol. Watch yer emails buddy.

But, these days I tend to arrive on the server, hack a setup about ( or use one that I had from another circuit ) and drive wot I got.  :-\  More fun that way  ;D






Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: bagrupp on October 25, 2017, 10:32:56 PM +0100
Samb, youre Merc Setup is great. I managed 1.04.05 with 50 liters fuel and no tow. Just a little bit oversteer and tires stay in temperature.

Evil, the lancia is really fast, its understeering not as much as my setup but its really fast.

I stick to my german car. thanks a lot for sharing your experience. it will take time until i can develop such setup.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Cookie on October 25, 2017, 11:03:55 PM +0100
..have you looked at Axel's setup? He has the left harder than the right!  Obviously not an exact science.

That's what I learned from EOLC oval specialists...

Inside is allways way stiffer!

Look here at TvO's post: http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=9600&#entry94871


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: EvilClive on October 26, 2017, 09:33:17 AM +0100
I find it fascinating when drivers talk about setups and what works and what does not.  ;D Which is why I was keen to hear member's experiences with my two offerings.

I had read somewhere that on ovals the inside tyre pressures should be harder than the outside tyres, but whenever I tried to make that concept work I got no joy. I am sure that it works for some drivers and I suspect that it depends upon driving styles and preferences? But it just did not work for me.

I like a car that turns in quickly when I lift off, and also generates oversteer when I press on the gas. The trick for me is to make the transition from lift off, to power on as smooth and stable as possible, so that I do not have to wait to be able to accelerate through a corner.

If the stiffer inside works for Axel and other drivers and allows them to get around an oval faster than they did before, that is great and no-one can argue about what is right and wrong.

 I have always felt that all the different parameters within the GPL setups all react with each other, and because of that there are many ways of arriving at the same result. If you factor in different driving styles as well, I would guess that there are a hundred ways of achieving a fast lap time.

I have to confess that I was very pleased with that Lancia setup....1:04.5 on the first flying lap which was far from perfect and no tow. I think that without tow, it would go sub 1:04 comfortably and with a perfect slipstream around the whole oval ( almost impossible in practice) a low 1:03, or even a dip into 1:02's would be possible.
 I only tried the Lancia because it is the fastest car, so that I had a benchmark for whatever car I chose to race. I did try the Connaught, but although I like a challenge that did seem a step too far, and I opted for the 250F.
So I set about getting the car to carry speed through T1 and T3. The obvious route was to more or less copy the Lancia setup and then tweak things to suit the Maserati.
Whatever I did appears to have worked for me, but some drivers have found that they cannot drive my setups with my 5:1 steering ratio?? which goes back to driving styles and preferences.

IMHO There is no right or wrong in GPL setups, only what works for you, and allows you to drive more quickly.




Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: francesco on October 26, 2017, 09:56:24 AM +0100
I have tested the setup of Axel and i have done 1,0450   0,070 less than my best into the race(with stream).I must say that i was on the right way with my setup but with value clearly less extreme.This setup allow me to enter the curves more easily and the front right tire seem less stressed.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: ReiverEcosse on October 26, 2017, 12:01:56 PM +0100
I can't get my head around Axel's stiffer on the inside setup.  My set up (which seemed not to spike the outside tyre temp too much) was much softer on the inside than the outside so, along with the camber, the car would naturally lean into the turns (indeed I had to apply a smidge of left lock all the way down the straights to prevent it).  I had a comparatively stiffer ARB at the rear than the front to promote the rear breaking away first.  Pressures are a matter for each wheel (as is Camber) but generally I was softer on the outside than the inner.

One thing which I've done in real life in Autograss and Stockcars is offset the right rear wheel so when the diff kicks power to it the turning force is magnified under power and you can also get the power down sooner.  you can't do that in GPL so a hyper aggressive diff is essential at minimum, it was 30/85 all the way.

I can't figure out how you can get an inclination for the car to turn in off power if you have a stiffer inside than out.  I'll have to drive that set-up and some point and see how it feels.  It certainly works . . . I just don't know how!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: Samb on October 26, 2017, 04:24:12 PM +0100
..have you looked at Axel's setup? He has the left harder than the right!  Obviously not an exact science.

That's what I learned from EOLC oval specialists...

Inside is allways way stiffer!

Look here at TvO's post: http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=9600&#entry94871

Shows what I know Axel  ;D. My thinking was in-line with Reiver's but if oval specialists recommend a stiffer inside.....more investigation required  :smartass:.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 32 (2017-18) 1955 Grand Prix - Indianapolis - Oct 24
Post by: EvilClive on October 26, 2017, 04:52:53 PM +0100
I am certainly curious about the "stiffer inside " theory. It obviously works for many racers, but my experiments with it have been total failures.

Maybe I am not understanding things correctly, because it just feels counter intuitive to stiffen the inside settings.  ??? If I had known about this theory 18 months ago I would have pinned Tommie v Ostade to the ground and extracted an answer when we met at Brands Hatch for the JSMT gathering 2016!!!

 In real life the Indy cars are totally offset towards the inside. I have no idea if they run stiffer inner suspension in RL, but I would have thought that you would want the car to naturally lean in through the corners? Perhaps it is the rebound shocks that are stiffer on the inner wheels to prevent them lifting?

All total guesswork on my part  :-\

When we say "stiffer ", are we referring to Spring Rates, or Shocks, or Tyre pressures, or all 3??? and How much stiffer is stiffer? 10% or 50%??

Like Sam, I shall have to dig deeper just because it is supposed to work. On the other hand, I did have a setup that worked OK and was pretty quick, so I am not going to lose any sleep over this.  ::)