SimRacing.org.uk

1955 Grand Prix – Season 32 – Round 4 – Spa-Francorchamps

The fourth race in the 1955 Grand Prix series takes us to Spa-Francorchamps in Belgium.  Designed in 1920 the original triangle-shaped course used public roads between the Belgian towns of Francorchamps, Malmedy, and Stavelot. The track was intended to have hosted its inaugural race in August 1921, however the first car race was held at the circuit in 1922. Spa was the fastest road circuit in Europe at the time, and it had a nasty reputation for being dangerous and very fast- it was a circuit known to be one for the brave, and most drivers were frightened of it. The old Spa circuit was unique in that speeds were consistently high with hardly any let-up at all for 3–4 minutes. This made it an extraordinarily difficult mental challenge (& ridiculously easy to crash).

Race List	=	IGOR
Server	=	UKGPL_8
IP Address	=	look in IGOR
Race date	=	07-11-2017
GPL mod	=	66F1
60fps patch used	=	60fpsV2newmod
Track	=	Spa67 (http://srmz.net/index.php?s=448c71de31d5af327ee46f7dfc1fde15&showtopic=10443)
Qualification	=	20:45  UK time -> 45min
Race	=	race starts at ~21:30 UK time
Race length	=	~50 min -> 12 laps
Damage Model	=	Intermediate
Replay	=	here (ftp://ftp.ukgpl9.co.uk:32122/Season32/1955 Grand Prix)

Password: see above (#post_event_password)

Driver lists and divisional rules can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=620&theme=6)
 
Unlimited Shift R are allowed but should be followed by Stop & Go’s in the pits within 2 laps.

Please restrict chat to emergency messages only including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

Only reported incidents will be moderated, there is no Red Zone.

Handicapping and chassis allocation.
This season the 1955 Grand Prix cars will be using a token system which allows drivers to purchase any chassis of their choice for a given number of tokens as published on the championship standings page. Drivers classed as Amateurs will be allocated an additional 10 tokens.  The token allocation will not be managed in SRou this season so (unlike the 67F1 Works and 67F1 Privateer divisions) the tokens available to each driver will not appear in the championship table (when the mouse pointer is hovered over the driver's total).  Rather, the available tokens will be published in the race announcement.  See below.

Available Tokens:
Note: These are the tokens available to each driver before the 10 tokens are added for making the race start.

Driver	Tokens	Status
Robert Fleurke	10	Pro
EvilClive	13	Pro
Ronniepeterson	22	Pro
DLogan	8	Pro
FullMetalGasket	15	Pro
Doni Yourth	15	Pro
Clive Loynes	25	Pro
Samb	17	Pro
MagicArsouille	10	Pro
Turkey Machine	10	Pro
GregT	15	Pro
Carlos Cendejas	5	Pro
Cookie	5	Pro
Billy Nobrakes	18	Am
maddog	15	Am
bagrupp	7	Am
Geoff65	20	Am
Jeep	20	Am
Gareth	15	Am
Rainier	17	Am
Phil Thornton	17	Am
dave curtis	14	Am
francesco	15	Am
ReiverEcosse	25	Am
Syd Drake	20	Am
Will Tway	18	Am

Last one who reduces himself to a shattered pulp smeared over the side of a Belgian cottage is a sissy!

Unlikely to be me.  I find that this place at 60fps gives my pc the heebie-jeebies!

I do most of my practice at 36fps and find the Lancia a delight to drive.  On-line at 60fps it feels like someone else is wrestling with the steering wheel at the same time as me!  And he's a naff driver too!

Is there anyone out there running GPL on Win 10, with a Logitech G25 wheel??

I am struggling to get it feeling "right".

Currently the wheel works fine and gives a nice weight in the corners, but as soon as I straighten up and exceed 45mph, the damned thing wants to vibrate its way off the desk and  through the floor!!!

My wife is complaining about the resonance downstairs because it drowns out the TV!!!

If you have a similar setup that works would you please post here with your profiler settings and the CONTROL tab settings in GEM??  If I continue to wrestle with this beast I will have arms like a weightlifter and no wife!!  :-\

No pain no gain Evil!

Is there a sneaky update for the profiler that you haven't found yet?

It is always good to find such morale boosting support offered from fellow simracers  :wetfish: :wetfish: :wetfish:

Anyway  ::), after much twiddling with settings etc.....then firing up GPL to test........shutting down......more adjustment....etc etc etc. I think I have found the offending parameter.  ;)

Because the wheel worked OK in GTL with no shaking, I figured that maybe, just maybe, it had to be one of the parameters within GEM??  By reducing the Latency to Zero I removed the shaking problem. But, that seems odd because I know that I had a value of around 0.2 on my old rig.

Perhaps, it is the relative values of all of the parameters that threw up the shaking anomaly??

Funny thing is that this shaking around the center is the result of the big deadzone (~15° !!!) those wheels have.
I know you use a very small rotation angle, what relatively enlarges this...  
You must have hit the sweet spot and produced an echo effect  :o

Look here : http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=11285&#entry117560

This is really bad news Axel!  So now, in addition to requiring a new pc and a new operating system I also need a new wheel!

Crivens!  That's never going to get past the finance committee.   :'(

Well.. that is very interesting Axel.

Within the Logitech Profiler I have obviously set the steering deadzone to zero, but I guess that only means that it does not expand the hard wired default deadzone.

The only other wheel I have ever used is a Microsoft Sidewinder and the G25 always felt more solid. I have to say that I am unaware that I have a deadspot at the centre, at least I do not feel it when driving.

On the new rig I have set 220 deg rotation and have adjusted the FFB parameters so often that I forget where they are now.
The shaking was truly violent and felt like it was only in a very small zone within a couple of degrees at the centre position, certainly did not feel as much as 15 degrees!  If I applied minimal steering lock the vibration would stop and I would feel the FF start to feed in.

Now, with the GEM Latency value set at zero there is no vibration and if there is a deadspot at straight ahead, then I guess that I am so used to it that I do not notice as it feels "normal" to me.
As far as I am concerned the G25 works fine and I will not be changing it anytime soon.............unless it begins to smoke half way through races like my old Sidewinder did!!

As I understand this subject, there is a large dead band in the FFB but not in the steering input.

This probably explanes why Evil always wants his car at 45% to the direction of travel and a good hefty bit of opposite?

The rest of us, more sedate, G25 users just don't get to feel what the car is doing until it's too late?

Clive - based on Axels advice I changed the wheel settings to use the Force Feedback 2 option in GEM ( G27 which is basically the same as G25). Its a lot softer & I think more aligned to real forces. You will have to get actual settings from Axel. Otherwise I suspect your problem is driving the car in a straightline, seeing as your normal style is sideways.

Clive, in the profiler you should set 100% forces and the rest at 0% (no centering spring). Also I recommend setting rotation to 543 degrees, using around 8:1 strg ratio on GPL and strg hack disabled in GEM controls. Then you can make use of the range of the wheel also making the hairpins better. In GEM controls I use 0 latency and 0 damping. The amount of force (225 standard, higher number is weaker force) is a personal choice. I've set it weak to 335.  I drive at 100% linearity in GPL options/controls.

The MSFF and also G25 have deadzones in the FFB it seems, but I never felt that. Transiting to the G25 went very smoothly, also to the pedals now. Only catching the car is harder, I tend to overcorrect a lot so far when the max range of the MSFF (270 degrees) was a safe bet countersteering...

Recentlty I switched from brrr's ffb2 to ffb3test1 patch for FFB. ;)

Well, that was . . . eventful, in that every lap had it's own particular nightmare.

I was very happy with a 4:06.6 in Practice which was my best ever, but the race was shocking.

I had to shift-R twice, the first time I was slipstreaming Phil and so entraced was I by his rear axle I forgot to turn in for Masta and killed myself utterly.

Recovered from that and was enjoying quiet run in the top 10 which I would've been very happy with.  Then I took a speed shift before Blanchimont and my Mercedes exploded.  After that it was back to 12th, I had a crack at Bastian for the last two laps, but both times I got overexcited into La-Source and faffed the hairpin and let him get away.

Still, it seemed an epic race up front! I cannot conceive of the talent Tim and Greg and the others up front must have to get close or even under 4 minutes. I for one will be glad to see the less nerve shredding dunes of Zandvoort.

Sorry to Fran for an optimistic manovre when you avoided and went off.

i hoped the lancia is faster after it takes 15 Tokens..or wa it just my setup again ? Made 162 mp/h without tow

I had a longer 5th on the Merc and was doing about 164 before entering Masta without a tow.  I think the Lancia seems able to keep the mid corner speeds up in a way the Merc can't though.

The last gift before to start ;D after this i made another error so i have decided to retire anyway have a good trip in New Zeland.
Is a shame that on this forum is not possible to load photos of this interesting land.

You think a much shorter track with 5 braking zones (vs. 2 @ Spa) will be easier in these beasts? O... k.    ;)

My juvenile hope is based on me doing a Funliga race at Zandvoort last month and not setting fire to myself, which makes it far better than my Spa experience.  :D

I've loaded the chassis the drivers used into the token calculator spreadsheet.  For the next race the available tokens will be as declared in the table below (the table will also appear in the next race announcement).  The calculated values are automated but selecting the cars is a manual process so please check your tokens to make sure I haven't made a silly error.  There was no token overspend for this round so no one is disqualified.

Available Tokens:
Note: These are the tokens available to each driver before the 10 tokens are added for making the race start.

Driver	Tokens	Status
Robert Fleurke	10	Pro
EvilClive	11	Pro
Ronniepeterson	14	Pro
DLogan	0	Pro
FullMetalGasket	7	Pro
Doni Yourth	15	Pro
Clive Loynes	20	Pro
Samb	17	Pro
MagicArsouille	10	Pro
Turkey Machine	10	Pro
GregT	13	Pro
Carlos Cendejas	5	Pro
Cookie	3	Pro
Billy Nobrakes	18	Am
maddog	15	Am
bagrupp	2	Am
Geoff65	20	Am
Jeep	20	Am
Gareth	15	Am
Rainier	9	Am
Phil Thornton	12	Am
dave curtis	12	Am
francesco	10	Am
ReiverEcosse	17	Am
Syd Drake	20	Am
Will Tway	18	Am
miner2049er	20	Am

I'm hoping for better at Zandvoort too Alex, on the basis that the 60fps gremlin that wrestles with my wheel whilst I try to steer the ruddy thing has less influence on a nice "lite" original pappy track!   ::)  Well I can hope can't I!?  The gremlin got the upper hand too often here tonight!

Congrats Tim and Clive! Tim easily had me beat. I got lucky!

This was the first 55 race in a long time I drove without a damaged car. I tried to be careful, fast, and consistent. It's hard to believe that worked. :)

I had hoped to stay in Tim's slipstream longer. It looks like I was geared well for running in the tow. I didn't need the long 5th gear once Tim left me behind on lap 3 and 4. I screwed up La Source and started falling behind and on lap 4 I barely stayed off the barriers at Eau Rouge and Les Combes. Tim disappeared after that. Lap 4 sucked so bad, I thought Clive was going to catch me. I had to drive my best the next 5 or 6 laps to keep Clive from getting a tow. I was surprised when I saw I was catching Tim on lap 9. I thought I was going to see how fast I could go in the tow late in the race, instead I assumed the lead when Tim pitted. I didn't think I could keep Tim from catching me. The last 3 laps, I kept wishing I had one less gallon of fuel and a better gearset for running in clean air. I also thought he might drag Clive up to me too.

I think Tim wrecked? I thought I saw a wheel or two near the track but I was so focused on my lines I'm not sure if I did or not.

Thanks guys.

P.S. I was thinking the same thing Dean.

Turns out it was Phil I punted in La Source, lap 1, while trying to dive under/outbrake Doni.  :P

Sorry for that, report has been filed.  :-[

I had not expected the resident aliens to take the fastest cars. No reason why they should not have given themselves the best chance of a win, but maybe I was thinking back to the fun race we had here?

I quite like the Maserati 250F, as a mid range car with nice handling, but it lacks just a few extra horses at the top end so should be a challenge at Spa.
During quali I was actually feeling that despite the lack of raw power I might be in with a shot at a win. Well that was until Tim showed up!! When he went sub 4:00 I thought he had found a shortcut!!
At the start I knew that I needed to get in the slipstream right away if I was going to stay in touch with those 3 fast cars ahead. So I tucked in behind Axel's Ferrari and hoped that he would stay hooked up to Greg and Tim. The plan worked fine for the first laps and I was easing off in the slipstream down to Masta and I felt that I could stay with the trio up front quite comfortably.
All was good until Axel got it wrong at Eau Rouge and bounced off the bales. I thought I had squeezed past and would be able to stay in Greg's slipstream, but Axel's spinning car just clipped my rear wheel as I tried to escape and spun me around. That was the end of my chances of staying with Tim and Greg, so I settled into driving as smoothly ( and quickly ) as I could.
When Greg lost touch with Tim I was able to catch tantalising glimpses of his car vanishing around a corner ahead, but I just could not catch him. The chase went on for lap after lap without anything much changing until.......there was a Merc ahead and I was closing on it?? A check on Prib confirmed that it was Tim??? I got a little ambitious and eager to get on his tail and was almost there when I put a wheel on the slippy stuff and performed a spectacular off road excursion avoiding telegraph poles and trees before regaining the tarmac about half a mile further on and Tim out of sight.
The last few laps to the flag were uneventful other than a stupid overshoot at La source.

Quite pleased to get 3rd place but frustrated that I did not actually nail the perfect lap which Prib promised would be a 4:00 dead without a tow and possibly quicker if I could attach myself to a Merc??
As for Zandvoort, that will be a much stiffer challenge with the brakes. Spa only needed two areas of serious braking so the fade issue was never a problem, We have had 2 tracks now at Indy and Spa where the brakes were treated gently....Zandy will be a sharp reminder of the frailty of the stopping devices.

Argg!
I had it and threw it away ;D

As with all token based series i pick my chassis at the start of the season and then only change when faced with something unexpected. The Merc was my gamble for today and could have pulled it off spectacularly.
Unfortunately, having dropped Greg I kept on pushing as I was having so much fun.
GPLRA shows my ever increasing place nicely in the history graph.
I'd just done a 4:00 Fl the lap before binning it and wanted to go faster (the quality laps were all out of slipstream on my own).  I think the next lap had been good enough to go sub 4, and then I made a ridiculous mistake and fell off at the top of the hill ::)

A quick shift-r once I had finished rolling and my half mile lead was suddenly down to 3-400 yards, I hoped the better brakes on the Merc would allow me to exit my SnG either just infront or just behind Greg. Sadly my long 1st gear didn't hook up correctly and I found myself a fair way back. The Merc takes 2 or 3 laps to come up to temp so I was praying for a mistake from Greg as I lumbered after him.
He never made one, I think I just started to pick up his draft at masta on the final lap as  I did my fastest lap then - no way the car could do that on its own with full tanks..

Well done on grabbing the win Greg, you deserved it with a solid drive.
Well done also to Clive for 3rd and all of the finishers for finishing.
I'll be back in a real car next time so be afraid  :ninja:

Thanks to all you who offered advice on my G25 and FFB issues. I think I have arrived at a solution that I can drive, but there might be some fine tuning to be done over the next few weeks.

@ Billy..... There is no FFB2 option in my GEM?? where does that come from and what the hell is it ?? :o

@ Robert.....I tried the settings/adjustments that you suggested but it all felt way to "soft and slow" for me. But, using the info that you gave me I have arrived at something that works for me and without that bone shaking vibration.  ;)

 I did notice in the practice for the Spa race last night that Clive Loynes' observations about FFB and steering input were correct. There is no deadspot for steering input, but there is a small central area where the FFB is absent. I guess I am well used to this on my G25 and that does not bother me at all.
Now the only thing that concerns me is that despite investing in a computer that is twice as fast as my old rig,  my laptimes have not improved by the same factor???  Must be a setting within Win 10 that needs tweaking perhaps??  ::)

I guess you had it on your 1955-era PC? :)

Not that I'm trying to teach you to suck eggs,  but the FFB2 patch [& indeed the FF3test that was mentioned recently]  is under the Technical Stuff heading at http://www.gpllinks.org/ (http://www.gpllinks.org/). 

To save clicking on 2x links,   the FFB2 is here: http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=4226 (http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=4226)

it was some time ago when I dealt with it  (I have not bothered to read the details)  but there is probably a .xml file to be dropped into the xxx\GEM\OPTIONS  folder.

Cheers,
Dave.

Sorry for the driver of the red car I hit at the exit of Masta on lap 3 or 4 ...
I didn't see his car was on the reverse direction and my first idea was to take his slipstream.

My begin of race was correct until this accident and the following 1st reset.
Later I did another big mistake and had to do a 2nd reset
of course, the 2 resets were followed by a stop in the pits .

I enjoyed driving the W196, even if I was slow with it but I enjoyed more to have no brakes troubles on this track.
Next races at Zandvoort and Aintree will be different  :(   

The think that I like most about the '55mod is that even the great and the good get it wrong from time to time, giving just a glimmer of hope that I just need to gain a bit of consistency to greatly improve my results.   ::)

I got off the line well enough and followed Ronnie into Burnenville.  But the car didn't do what I expected and I ended up in the field and bog last.

Several tankslappers followed in the next few laps until I settled down to the last half of the race trying to catch Phil.  I failed and had one more off track moment when I was trying too hard.

Grats to Greg, Tim and Clive and everyone else for that matter.  I like Spa but I'm not sorry that it is now behind us.

I had hoped to join this race. An internet connection was proving elusive in the new house, so in the end a technician had to come round to coax a signal, the night of the race. Thankfully he fixed the problem at about 7.30pm so thought, great I can even manage a little practice and get back on track  :).

Only then my computer gave a scare. It booted for 3 seconds before switching itself on again, repeatedly  :o. Turns out a loose power connector to the graphics card was the culprit, which must have happened during transit to the new house. Only managed to figure that out when I realised the PC would boot properly when the case was sideways but not upright  ::). Unfortunately after my shenanigans it went into repair mode (it wouldn't recognise my wireless keyboard to change the setting to boot normally!). That delay caused me to miss the race, which was annoying, but I'm grateful I still have a working PC, with an internet connection once again. I'll see you all at the next one  :thumbup1:.

Ain't modern technology wonderful  :-\