SimRacing.org.uk

 On 7 August 1948, the first race was held on the new permanent Zandvoort circuit. Soon more races followed on the course, with the first official Formula 1 Grand Prix becoming a milestone in 1952. Up until the mid-eighties, heroes like Alberto Ascari, Juan Manuel Fangio, Stirling Moss, Graham Hill, Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart, James Hunt, Nelson Piquet and Alain Prost braved the challenging course in the Dutch dunes and won at Zandvoort. After the Grand Prix of 1985, the Formula 1 left Zandvoort, but the seaside resort and its impressive race track were not forgotten. Many years after the last Grand Prix, the ‘racing drivers of the day’ still talk about their experience on the race track where the challenging corners ‘separated the men from the boys’.



Race List = iGOR
Server = TBA
IP = see iGOR
Race date = Sunday 21-11-2017
Time = 21:00 UK time (21:00 GMT)
Track = Papyrus Original
Race length = 27 Laps (50 minutes)
Variant = 1955
60fps patch used   = 60fpsV2newmod
Damage Model = Intermediate
Qualifying time = 30-45 minutes
Replays Available    here


Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=620&theme=6)

The full time drivers can start to practice as soon as the server is available.  Reserve drivers can also join as soon as the server becomes available but must leave the server with 35 minutes of qualifying left, for a total of 5 minutes; this will allow any remaining full timers to join.  If there is enough space on the grid, the reserve drivers will be able to rejoin when there are 30 mins of qualifying left.  

This Season we don't have a Red Zone. Moderating will be on reported incidents only. If you haven't received a PM about an incident before the link below the results table is removed, you can be sure that you will not appear in the moderator's report.

The chassis token system is explained on the 55's standings page. Please ensure you choose a chassis that is within your budget, see the table below.

Please restrict chat to pit messages including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

Password: see above (#post_event_password)


Driver   "Available
Tokens"
Robert Fleurke   10
EvilClive   11
Ronniepeterson   14
DLogan   0
FullMetalGasket   7
Doni Yourth   15
Clive Loynes   20
Samb   17
MagicArsouille   10
Turkey Machine   10
GregT   13
Carlos Cendejas   5
Cookie   3
Billy Nobrakes   18
maddog   15
bagrupp   2
Geoff65   20
Jeep   20
Gareth   15
Rainier   9
Phil Thornton   12
dave curtis   12
francesco   10
ReiverEcosse   17
Syd Drake   20
Will Tway   18
miner2049er   20

   

The link to the standings page takes me to the wrong season and the wrong series.   ::)

And I don't think that the available tokens shown on the actual standings page bears any resemblance to the true list shown above.

I've fixed the link.

You are right, the tokens on the standings page are wrong but that is as expected as we are managing the token count outside SRou using this spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NBVz-6zhtTxl0tZ9MtQtiCApP4__TiLJvS-Cocoii-E/edit?usp=sharing).

Is today the race with the Historic on this track?I don't see the announcement with the PSW.

Yes it is today.  Race announcement posted, sorry for the delay.  I'll put UKGPL_4 up for practice later today.

Thanks Phil.

I was thinking that perhaps the part of the announcement that says ", which can be seen by hovering the mouse over your points total in the standings." should be omitted?

Done.

Well I can do 35 laps without falling off the road or melting the brakes.  My problem is that they are a very very slow 35 laps.

Don't worry Alex, first you learn to drive it and then you learn to race it.  35 uninterupted laps will do you fine.

And you never know, now that the 66ers have moved on we might see a practice server.  It's always worth getting used to how it feels on-line.

I'll see you near the back then.  :)

I haven't found an issue with brakes here as I only use them in the first part of the lap and they are cool again by the time I get to T1.

Entering T1 sideways helps a lot too......

Didn't really get to grips with this mod at first but starting to enjoy it now.

Server up now if anybody is interested.

Gents just checked the laps for this race.  35 is a bit too long.  Judging by the WR time for the Ferrari 625 (1min 40.192) at more realistic estimate for a 50 min race would be 27 laps.

Big apologies to Evil.  I was having a great race until I got carried away and punted him off.  Sorry it ended your race.

Well that was a frustrating trundle about in last place.  Started brightly in a duel with Bob and someone else all three of us in 250fs. Then I got Tarzan wrong, got well bogged down in the sand, and that was it.  Lonely lonely race keeping out of the way of traffic after that.

I'm consoling myself with the thought that I'm putting all of my worst races into one season!

When does next season start?   ::)

I've loaded the chassis the drivers used into the token calculator spreadsheet.  For the next race the available tokens will be as declared in the table below (the table will also appear in the next race announcement).  The calculated values are automated but selecting the cars is a manual process so please check your tokens to make sure I haven't made a silly error.  There was no token overspend for this round so no one is disqualified.

Available Tokens:
Note: These are the tokens available to each driver before the 10 tokens are added for making the race start.

Driver	Tokens	Status
Robert Fleurke	5	Pro
EvilClive	16	Pro
Ronniepeterson	19	Pro
DLogan	10	Pro
FullMetalGasket	17	Pro
Doni Yourth	20	Pro
Clive Loynes	15	Pro
Samb	27	Pro
MagicArsouille	10	Pro
Turkey Machine	5	Pro
GregT	23	Pro
Carlos Cendejas	5	Pro
Cookie	1	Pro
Billy Nobrakes	16	Am
maddog	15	Am
bagrupp	2	Am
Geoff65	10	Am
Jeep	10	Am
Gareth	15	Am
Rainier	14	Am
Phil Thornton	7	Am
dave curtis	10	Am
francesco	10	Am
ReiverEcosse	15	Am
Syd Drake	10	Am
Will Tway	18	Am
miner2049er	15	Am

Congrats Tim and Sam!

:lol: I almost used consistency to steal another win. I didn't realize Tim had wrecked until I looked at the replay. Clive, Sam, Phil, and I could have passed him in the pits if we had been more consistent. Sam and I would have been in good position to do so, had I not bumped him off the track at Tarzan.

I had my chance to see if I could stay in Tim's slipstream. I couldn't do it. I could get enough off of Sam to keep Phil at bay for a while.

I drove well most of the race. It got so crowded at Tarzan that one lap, I couldn't figure out what to do. I wasn't really trying to pass Sam. I just wanted to do some drag racing down the straight. I lifted a little early to yield to Sam but it wasn't early enough. I had no real idea where to go with Phil and Clive so close. With just a little more brake left, I could have held the car on the inside and avoided bumping Sam. Luckily I did get the car slowed enough that it didn't appear to damage either of our cars. My apologies Sam.

Poor Clive. He paid dearly for relinquishing the lead. :(

That was a good battle between Sam, Phil, and me. Sam closed on me quickly once in my tow. It took a lot of work and long time for me to narrow any gap to Sam. Phil's Lancia kept him close for a long time. I probably couldn't have held him off without a slight tow from Sam.

I didn't have any hopes for this season and didn't know if I'd drive it or not. It looks like I've got myself into an unexpected battle. Maybe I should practice more than an hour just before the race. I think I'll need a good car advantage if I want to actually beat Tim. It didn't take me long at Spa to make me think I needed a Mercedes if I wanted to stay close to Tim. I don't know what car I would have needed to stay close to his lightning Gordini at Zandvoort.

That was a better race than I expected. Two less accidents and it could have been great. It looks like Tim and I were the lucky ones. Good luck and consistency put me in front of Clive, Sam, and Phil.

Thanks guys.

Going reasonably well until I confused my braking point at Tarzan (must have reverted to 66 mod from Sunday). I ran off / wide / span about 4 consecutive laps toward the end. I owe Doni an apology for one of the rejoins. The 55 cars don't seem to have much traction off road & it took longer to cross the track than I had expected. Glad to see Doni escaped with a minor detour across the grass & perhaps a change of underwear. slowly getting to grips with the 55 cars. Aintree will be amusing as the car never seems to have enough brakes.

Only myself to blame for a DNF. Grats to Tim and his Gordini....I want the scrutineers to look under that bonnet!!!! :eek: :nuke:

Tim was dangerously quick in that Gordini :o and I was surprised that a Gordini and a Connaught took the front row, especially when there were a couple of Lancias in the pack??
I hoped that Tim's gearing would compromise his start, and that proved to be the case as I was easily able to get to Tarzan first. I was also hoping that his gearing would be so bad that he got swamped before T1 ;) ;D.
I think Ronnie got past and provided a buffer between me and that crazy French car, so I tried to build a lead that I could then control. The plan worked well for the first few laps and Ronnie grew smaller in the mirrors. Until I tried a little too hard around Hellzanbuggerbrocht and caught my front wheel on the kerb at the exit. The contact pulled the car violently sideways and fired me into the only sign post on the circuit!!!  :-\.

The resounding "crunch" was so loud I thought that at least 3 wheels had come off and the engine would be between my knees!!! and I almost hit the Escape key there and then. But, the car sort of bounced back towards the track, so I though I would give it a try before quitting.
Miraculously the car appeared to be OK, and after a tentative lap where I expected dodgy handling or braking, but felt no ill effects, I set about regaining some places.
The Connaught was definitely down on top speed against some cars but I could gain ground through the twisty bits.
After a couple of passes, I could see Phil ahead in a Lancia and he was motoring along quite quickly  ;) It took several laps to reel him in and his pace had taken both of us up to the pair of battling Gordinis that were Sam and Greg.

The 4 cars entered the S/F straight where Phil had a definite speed advantage over everyone, but Greg had pulled alongside Sam and the was a wall of pale blue French metal across the track.......undeterred Phil went down the middle  :o. Call me chicken and stick a feather somewhere, but I saw trouble ahead at Tarzan  :-\ so I eased back just slightly to give myself some avoidance room.

 I suspect that Phil also realised that a Lancia in a Gordini sandwich into Tarzan was not going to be a good experience and he braked early. Greg was caught on the inside line and like he says, was just a fraction too late on the brakes and slithered gracefully across the track collecting Sam on the way and easing them both into the sand.
Phil was able to squeeze past and my cautious approach allowed me to sweep around the inside and emerge on Phil's tailpipes.  ;D
I think that elevated Phil to 2nd place and myself to 3rd?? which was gratifying after my earlier mistake. If I could get past Phil and his powerful Lancia I might be able to chase down Tim and that twin turbo Gordini with afterburners??

For several laps I chased Phil looking for an opening. The favourite place is braking for Tarzan, but Phil was too quick on the straight for me to get close even with a tow  :-\ Passing anywhere else at Zandvoort is a problem and try as I might I could not force Phil into a decent mistake...good defensive driving Phil  ;)
Over a couple of laps I had noticed that Phil was slightly slower out of Holzenbugitupbloch, but he always held a tight line that effectively blocked any passing attempt.........hmmmmm.

So, if what you are doin' ain't workin' try something different.

I stuck as close to Phil as I could out of Tarzan and through the Esses and instead of hugging the inside Kerb I allowed my car to run deep and brake later, so that I did all my turning out against the hay bales to aim my car back up the hill. This meant that I could nail the gas early and aim up the left hand side of the track whilst Phil took the normal line out to the right.
TBH I was surprised that it worked so well and I was passing Phil as we reached the crest. I could not see his car so had to stay to the left which compromised my entry into the fast left hander in the dip. (Looking at the replay I probably could have moved across and taken the ideal line, but I could not see that at the time).
Which is where it all went wrong, as I missed an upshift and had to take a tighter line to be sure that I left room for Phil...Phil was able to take the perfect line and swept into the apex to find a sluggish Connaught in the way.

As far as I am concerned it was a racing incident which was exaggerated by my missed gearchange. Plus who knows if I would get another screen freeze like I did in the last minutes of Qually, re-entering the server with 30 seconds to go!!

 It had all the makings of an epic battle with the promise of a chase after Tim ahead for the final 10-12 laps and I was disappointed that it all ended as it did. Glad to see that Phil could continue and finish in the points as he was going so quickly.

FWIW I had absolutely zero issues with brakes at this track and did not even need to watch for the red light, in fact I totally forgot about it until about 8 laps in when I glanced down out of Tarzan after I did some really late braking on Doni(?) to see it switch back from yellow to green.
On to Aintree, where brakes WILL be an issue.........

That's excellent Clive. I thought the slowest car might limit my brake problems. It helped but I still had plenty of laps that I needed more braking power. Sam and Phil appeared to make up a lot time on me braking for Tarzan. Sam didn't seem to have any problem outbraking me at Tarzan when he passed me. Phil saw me on the banking on the left after Tarzan several times. I often had trouble at the first right after Tarzan.

I enjoyed that race massively. Like others I am in awe of Tim gracefully piloting that Gordini around in quali and the race. His car seemed serene to drive (or at least gave the impression of!). My Gordini by comparison seemed like a bucking Bronco  ;D, from understeer to oversteer and a bit all over the place. But it was good fun to drive, if hard work.

Managed 6th on the grid and made an ordinary start thanks to a tall first gear. Axel got the jump on me which demoted me to 7th, but in the opening laps the sand dunes claimed Clive L, Axel, Ronnie and Clive G which promoted me to third, desperately trying to catch Greg while trying, and failing, to build a gap to Phil behind. Eventually I did manage to get close enough to Greg to make a lunge at Tarzan. Tim wasn't too far up the road but he had the legs on me throughout the race and slowly pulled away.

Mid race was a calamity. My desk positioned in the corner of the living room, near the window and mid race my Mrs. opened the windows, which was fine....until a gust of wind blew the curtains into my face, obscuring my view of the monitor  :o. As a result I ran wide at the Esses after the bridge, which allowed Greg and Phil to try and pass into Tarzan next lap.

I did wonder if I'd get away with taking a high line into Tarzan to try and defend my position. It is a risky strategy but gave it a go. Almost got away with it but Greg's brakes gave up and we both had a graceful dance into the sand. No worries there Greg, it's a wonder we don't hit each other more with these brakeless beasts. Although getting out the sand cost time, it didn't cost any positions in the end. Greg was kind enough to wait for me to join first and Phil and Clive had an unfortunate collision just up the road. Bad luck there chaps, you were driving great races.

From there it was a steady run to the flag, until two laps to go when I saw Tim exiting the pits, just ahead. Rather than play it safe I got overexcited and tried to catch him, however, even with a heavy fuel load and cold tyres, Tim was still faster! On the last lap I binned it into the dunes, allowing Greg to snatch 2nd place. Bit galling but my own silly fault.

Congrats to Tim and Greg for their podium spots  :)

Edit: Just for your reference Greg, for the most part I didn't have brake problems this race, but they did go into the red more than a few times after Tarzan, and didn't cool down in time for the next sequence of corners. It was more of a case of throwing the car into the corner for those. I found pumping the brake helps save them somewhat, but I'm not sure if it's best technique.

Frankly I'm amazed at my qualifying time as well - that was without draft I believe and means I've beaten Moss' time in the W126 (I'm also over 2 seconds faster than the next fastest T16 on GPLRank) ;D

The start of the race wasn't so good, the Gordini's power band is so narrow that 1st has to be geared as a driving gear - rather than a starting gear.
This meant I was swamped and fell to 4th before reaching Tarzan while waiting for the car to get up to speed.

Ronnie and Clive were miles away by the time I reached Tarzan but Clive (L) was just ahead and staying to the left - when he backed off early I took the invite and moved up to the inside next to him under braking.
I thought he knew I was there as he stayed wide from the inside for the 1st half of the corner, just after the apex his car seemed to move out a little so I accelerated a bit with a view to trying to get ahead upon exiting the corner.
Less than a second later his car moved back in across my nose which resulted in contact - I think I managed to get out of the throttle a bit but didn't have time to brake.
At first it looked like we got away with it as Clive appeared to catch a small slide, then his car suddenly veered off to the outside of the corner.
Sorry Clive - I was already running along the inner kerb so couldn't react enough to avoid you  :(

After that unfortunate incident I found myself a few lengths behind Ronnie and set to reeling him in, a task made easier when he ran himself off the road.
Then I had the difficulty of Clive up ahead in his faster Connaught. While I'd managed the fastest Qualy lap I was under no illusion that that would mean much in the race, where his brakes could give him an advantage (At my qualifying pace the Gordini brakes only last for 1.5 laps!).

On about lap 3 Clive gifted me the lead with his trip into the signage leaving me in first, about 3 seconds ahead of Gregs' Gordini.

It was hard to pull away, as I was carefully managing my brake use without abandoning them completely in the faster sectors (where I was using them to initiate the slides that avoided having to run the brakes deep or for more than a slight dab).
Eventually I suspect that either the increasing brake temps faced by Greg at his pace, or the battle with Sam allowed me to pull away a bit.

Then Sam got through to 2nd and started to very slowly close on me - I slightly upped my pace by using the brakes a little more, especially into Tarzan as that's where the most time could be made up.
This seemed to work as the gap stabilised and then possibly even opened a little before the accident that knocked everyone back 10 or 15 seconds.

After this I slowed again to give the brakes a chance to recover before pressing on at my previous 'safe' speed, which allowed me to edge ahead to 24 seconds by the time there were 5 laps to go.

This is where it nearly went horribly wrong - I decided that as i was playing the safe game I was therefore running far slower than in qualifying (GPLRA suggests 1:42' - 1:43's through the mid part of the race) and logically someone else had probably taken the fastest lap.
I have an illogical desire to put the Gordini at the top of as many tables as I can so I backed right off for two laps and then tried to repeat my qualifying lap while my fuel was low and I had time (Ha!) for a trip onto the beach.
What actually happened is I put the beginnings of an amazing lap in before then turning in slightly too early at Tunnel Oost.
This bounced me across the kerb and threw me out at the dunes, I tried and failed at staying on track and hit one of the steeper dunes while still quite sideways.
The Gordini appears to have been designed to roll - as that's what I did for really quite a long time before finally landing on my head.

A shift-R later and I wasn't very far ahead of the approaching field - worse than that the pits at Zandvort are at the fastest part of the track so my Stop and Go was going to cost me dearly!
I honestly thought Sam woud get me before Tarzan so was pleasantly surprised to still have 200 Yds in play when exiting the corner. The car now handled and felt like a boat - but on the plus side I had cold tires.
My driving style results in both rears turning red within 4 laps and then staying there at this track, it's great for managing the brakes long-term but hampers my outright pace quite a bit.
Only having to complete 1 or 2 laps after that reset meant I was driving on optimum tires and could really push hard - which is why I was able to still pull away from Sam on full tanks.
Had there been 5 to go he would have been reeling me back in again by the final lap  ;)

Congrats to my fellow Gordini drivers on taking over the rostrum  ;D
And a big well done to the rest who finished, especially anyone who didn't crash somewhere!

Next time I find myself leading I think I'll save my lap records for when I'm offline. I should have learnt my lesson at Spa last time  ::)

No problem Tim.

I backed off not wanting to clout anyone in front and had no idea that you were there.  Looking at the replay I could have just caught sight of one of your wheels disappearing up the inside but I wasn't looking at that point.  I followed my usual practice of not moving across in the early stages after the start but I think  that I took a slight warp hit from you.  As you say, I wasn't giving you much room but the warp hit pushed the back end over and suddenly I was coming your way.

I thought that I had caught it too but then it snapped back the other way and I was a goner!

As I said in my earlier post, I'm consoling myself with the thought that I'm concentrating all of my worst races in this season and looking forward to the next one!

Took me an absolute age to get out of the fence.

Really enjoyed my first 55 race after taking some time to get to like the mod, I now think it's wonderful.

Qaulified 10th, which surprised me as I expected to be lower, and took it easy for the first couple of laps and then picked up a few places as Clive and Ronnie had problems. Had to take to the grass when I thought Clive was coming across the track but luckily he didn't. Had a mini tussle once he caught me for a few corners and then Ronnie got through as I went wide at Tarzan.

It was pretty lonely for the most part but I was having fun throwing it around a little bit and was building a gap behind until Ronnie had a Stop n Go and began catching me. I upped my pace a bit and he was on a full tank again so never had the grunt to make a pass and caught the back end of my car which threw him wide and I brought it home for an enjoyable 6th.

Already looking forward to Aintree.

Before it slips my mind again, who was it that asked for my setup at the end of practice?
I only saw the message for a split second while swapping to race setup and looking at the grid.

It is not me ...but I'm interested too !

 

I used the default set up apart from changing fuel level, extending 5th by 1 notch and the front right camber a little.

I read in the manual that you should aim for 40deg on warm tyres, is that what people are doing?

Anything else people are tweaking?

Is it worth over infalting tyres for the fast tracks?

I'll chuck the qualifying one onto dropbox later tonight for any who are interested.
Zandvort is the first track I've seriously played with camber on, normally I leave it almost standard as the tires are so narrow it doen't really seem to matter.

Gearing is a must for the Gordini, the more drivable cars will normally work out of the box with only final drive tweeks if you need more/less speed.
I think I've played with ride height, brake bias, and toe quite heavily (My setups mostly use Monacane as a base as I've tested all of the cars there).
Diff also gets some attention now and then..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5pu4slirhtyigpm/Qual.ib1?dl=0

There you go. I think it's got enough fuel for about 5 laps if I've picked the right file.
It will only be fast for 2 flying laps, but you'll need to get the tires 'warm' without using the brakes (much) on the out lap ;)

'Twas I that asked, and thank you.

Thanks Tim, that has to be the best Gordini that I have tried to date!

But please tell.................what do the widely different rear tyre pressures contribute?   ???

With my driving style they were settling at the same hot temperature here (At Zandy)
It's pointless setting tire pressures around cold temps, as it means your setup will be ruined after a couple of race laps.

Given how hard I am on tires around here I expect I was reaching 41 or 42 Psi after 4 or 5 laps (optimum pressure is 40 remember, and not really achievable for me if I was to maintain a fast pace) as I use the tires as one of my main braking methods anywhere that doesn't feature a straight.
The left rear was practically melting after 5 so I drove most of the race very carefully apart from my stupid Lap record attempt ;D

Hmm......

I used it on Nurburgring and the tyre temps after a couple of laps were something like 49 and 47. 

Sorry, I ment tire pressures! I just try and keep the temps in the green (as I run imperial measures to get mph and psi I have no idea what the Fahrenheit numbers mean in real temp).
At Zandvort the left rear will have been 'red' from lap 3 or 4 onwards.

Pressure will probably have been around 41/42 throughout once warm. Running tie pressures too low can risk being unable to deal with the heat you generate. The Zandvort setup was a best compromise. The ideal was not possible for me.