SimRacing.org.uk

Password: see above (#post_event_password) (released 24hrs before the race)

Kyalami 1967

NOTE: We need to vote the server to the next session during this event, as Pete won't be there to start the server on the right time.

(https://s2.postimg.org/xjzee3pq1/Screenshot_ks_ford_gt40_kyalami1967_11-12-117-14-44-53.jpg)

December 27th - Password entry (on day of race)

Practise: 19:30 (45 mins)
Qual: 20:15 (15 mins)
Race: 20:30   40 minutes

Cars allowed:

Ferrari 330 P4
Ford GT40
Porsche 908LH

Optional skinpack (http://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/1967-24-heures-du-mans-skinpack.17389/).

Track:  Kyalami 1967 (https://actrackrebootproject.wixsite.com/ac-track-re-boot/kyalami1967)


Live Timing: stracker.simracing.org.uk:50041/lapstat (http://stracker.simracing.org.uk:50041/lapstat)

Time of Day Setting: 14:00
Weather: Clear
Start: Standing
Tyre wear: Normal
Fuel consumption: Normal
Pit-stops: Not required

Server track settings:
SESSION_START=100
RANDOMNESS=0
LAP_GAIN=0
SESSION_TRANSFER=N/a

Damage: 70%

Password: see above (#post_event_password)

PLP App - Not used in this series. Cutting will be monitored on replay and penalties issued for excessive cutting.

Notes:
(1) Please make sure you are fully aware of the UKGTR Rules (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3349.0)
(2) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page

(http://www.allf1.info/tracks/kyalami67.jpg)

This is a race to test the track and the car combo. If they are competitive enough, they will be the next series.
I haven't tested the track yet, but more people can find more bugs. So the track is somewhat a placeholder, but if it works, it will be the first round as well.

This ll be great!
I love the 908, i think the 330 P4 is 1-2 sec faster. Maybe 'd add ballast (just an idea).

In my opinion 15 mins of qual is too few, i prefer 20-30 mins.

If it's really the case, then it will be hard to slow it down by 1-2 second. That's probably a lot of ballast, but that's what we'll find out. Or else it could be GT40 and 908 series :).


It causes some unpredictability. If people have lots of time to set a lap, the grid will often look the same. Will look into it for the series.

Do we need to have DLC?

Tasty cars, tasty track  8) something to look forward too  :drool:

The gt40 v 330 were natural on track rivals were they not?  :-\

Yes a Porsche pack for the 908 and latest Ferrari pack.

Dont worry about ballast, just add air restrictors to the 330 and gt40 where needed..

The 330 is the fastest, then gt40. Usually on most tracks because the gt40 has a rev limit you can increase

I have no idea how to implement air restriction and I also don't have a clue how much something affects. With weight I can make a guess how much kg to aim for, but not with air restriction. So I'm gonna need some help on that or get a way to accuratly test it  :-\.

i can test it roughly for each and let you know, then just tell picnic and he will have to ad the air restriction in the servercfg file.

Cheers. :)

I really hope I'll be home for this  ;D
Epic selection 8)

Just a question Chris.
After I tried the restrictors to BoP cars in an italian champ, I must agree with you that they're probably the best way to balance the car without modifying the physics adding ballasts.
I would like to be helpful in balancing this pack, but I don't understand how to set the restrictors when offline. That can be done only modifying the servercfg file or I can modify the restrictors even offline in some way?

Thank you :)

You would have to start a server and set the air restriction for each car.

You can set air restriction offline if you create a custom championship. Just create long practice sessions with one or two opponents and restart championship to make adjustments or swap cars.

Thankk you both ;)

Considering its a test race, should we include the Jag XJ13 and or a Lola T70 Ford perhaps?

I won't include the Jaguar, as it never raced in real life.

Not sure about the Lola, as it seemed more a successor to the GT40. If it's competitive to the other 3 without any hassle, I can include them if others agree.

The Ford powered variant will be closer to the cars already chosen. The Chevy version is noticeably faster - easier to drive too for some reason

Honestly, I'm not a fan of Mod cars.

The Lola mod is superb though, have you tried it?  :)

No  ::)

I'm just going to leave the stock cars in at the moment. We can check the laptimes from the Lola afterwards if required, but Im not a fan of adding mod cars with stock content.

Fair enough. These 3 cars are fabulous to race, so that's completely fine.

NOTE: We need to vote the server to the next session during this event, as Pete won't be there to start the server on the right time.

Okidoki.

And i think i will try the 908LH for this race. Possibly not the best option for the long straight..

I’m going for a 330 as it’s one of my fave cars and I haven’t had time to use it in AC yet properly  8)

How is the performance balancing going? Have you got any numbers for the restrictors so we can practice offline?  ;D

I just tried all 3 cars briefly online, and the GT40 and 908 were equal for me, with the 330 being 1,5 seconds faster.

Now idea what king of air restrictions that is, but weight wise I think it would be around 80-100kg.

P4 for me :)
Ps. excellent choice Jeff, great cars

I'd like to sign up for this one please.

Car choice:  Ferrari 330 P4.

I had never before driven the Ferrari or Kyalami.  Both are awesome. 

No need to pick a car for this event. I think there will be 10 cars available for each, so you can decide when you join the server.

I think I'll go for either the GT40 or Porsche, both felt fun to drive. The Ferrari was a bit twitchy for me, but that might be the setup.

I'm currently trialling a 10% restrictor on the Ferrari's, It has them pretty even with the others in the hands of the AI, but I'm still a bit faster in them.
The Porsche struggles when driven by the AI, but I'm trying that next so will see how that copes with a human behind the wheel.
The Alfa is too slow sadly (I had to try!), but the big Jag is actually almost perfectly matching the GT40's and P330's when all are AI controlled.

Will update further once I've done some more testing

Thanks for the work. I haven't found a way for offline air restriction yet. Can't find the option in the custom championship. :-\

Just tried all 3 cars here, all great fun to drive. This circuit suits them well as you can get the power down nicely yet still a few corners to get a nice slide and bit of oversteer fun in  :)

When you're done selecting everyone's on the drivers drop down list, click on the little green tab at the top of the car list - it's called handicaps.
You'll then find options against every car for ballast and restrictors.

Results with me driving are as follows. There is some variation between runs as the championship seems to be randomising the track conditions slightly but I think these are fairly representative:

330 (10% restricted) =     1:24.697
908 ( No restrictors)  =     1:24.421
GT40 (No restrictors) =     1:25.264

These are on a 'green' track so won't represent my times for the current server settings. :P

Blimey, thanks.  :)


10% Doesn't sound a lot, but it seems to have quite the influence. I'll try and do some laps tomorrow, because preferably, I'd like the Kyalami race with the tweaked Ferrari. That way we can tweak it for a second test race.

Hey jeff, can I choice the 908 instead the 330? I hope isn't too late!
Also, if is possible, I did personal livery for me and Fabri (You know, I love made it :) )
https://www.dropbox.com/s/yg4kmrmsmts89fu/Magnesium%20Porsche908.rar?dl=0

(https://i.imgur.com/hZTKKbj.png)

Thanks in advance!

No need to pick a car for this race, it's a fun/test race. It will have 8 cars of each when you join and you can just pick when you join. Skins won't be possible because of that, but it will be for the season.

For some reason, even with 25% air restriction, I'm hardly any slower with the Ferrari. Maybe just put the server on 25% and see what everybody else thinks. Also, I'd like some more love for the GT40, as it seems to be the slowest at the moment, which could mean slowing the Ferrari down even more and the Porsche a bit.

Thanks jeff, in fact I did also for the championship which we want partecipate with the 908.
My opinion: Ferrari is really more fast then the other, I love her, but maybe need to consider the championship exclusion.
I manage 1.21.921, and I think that could be more low.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqG7EmDu2gk

Server now has a 25% air restriction for the Ferrari and, at Jeff's request, I've invalidated the previous times. See how you all do now ;)

Excellent, I will try ;)
If the best is near 1.23.5, could be ok for me

Very nice lap.

The Ferrari won't be in the championship at its default status. The 25% air restriction is a bit of a gamble and just first try as I'd like other's opinions. It needs to be slowed down by roughly 1,5 seconds, so it will probably require more restrcting. But I was already noticing the lower top speed with 25%, so even more will make it the slowest on the straight, but the most nimble in the corners, which could make it an interesting fight, just not a historic accurate one :P.


Thanks Pete. Afraid I'll keep spamming you with other numbers the next few days  :-*

Can someone post another link to the track please as the one provided results in: This page isn’t working www.mediafire.com redirected you too many times.

Thanks.

Kyalami 1967 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/znkto1tkapk8kae/kyalami1967.rar?dl=0)

Thanks.

I guess my ISP blocks mediafire or something.  :-\

Got my time in earlier just in time then (Even if I only managed 3rd ;D )

Will take it for another spin tomorrow - your claims of barely being slower with a 25% restriction worries me that my setup might be way off!

With the 25% of air restriction, ferraris remain 1 - 1,5 second much faster than Porsche best laps.

edit: with easly race pace of 1.22.8 or 9

Yes, maybe weight instead of air restriction. More air restriction will probably make the Ferrari a sitting duck on the straights, so maybe focus on killing the handling with weight.

If balancing the Ferrari doesn't work, then I will check out the lola mod to see if that is instantly competitive.

The 330 P4 is really too fast. She, with 25% of restr., is 1,1-1,2 sec faster than 908. And she is also easy to push.

908 and GT40 are even; maybe this track is a bit better for 908 (for the long straight).

Could you guys try the Gt40 as well as that will give me a good comparison? I'm struggling with being consistant in there cars, so my own findings aren't really reliable.

This track would have been great with the Lotus 25s!

I tried the Fezza and it feels like a soggy sponge pudding is driving a wallowing elephant seal. They don't feel connected to the road at all, just floating somehow above it.  :o

Ok, I did some laps with the Gt40.
I never tested seriously the car, before. Never liked, I know, it's iconic, but honestly never had good feels when I drove this beast last times.
Anyway, tried to make a good setup, and after some laps I catch 1.24.3.
Gt40 is really strange for me: isn't hard to make 1.24, but is really hard to find the best lap. I say, I've the feeling that should gone under 1.24, maybe 1.23.8, idk, but is really hard for me.
Maybe with the good setup...but it hasn't much choice of settings.

 ;D I love the ford hope I'm not on my own.

Cheers. Seems the GT40 is a few tenths slower here, so that's not too bad.


Nope, I'm with ya ;).

damn you guys are quick  :o everytime I find more time in the lap you guys up the pace again...stop it!  ;D

these cars feel properly epic, love the way they move around and all the grunt.  8)

I'm a bit bummed, because I just tried the Lola, and they are both way too fast. The Chevy version is even a lot faster than the Ferrari  :-\. Also adding 120kg to the Ferrari (no air restriction) only slowed the car down by 1 second. Not sure I want to try and slow the Ferrari down even more, as it might be just as fast in 1 lap, but I think it will feel very awkward when it's slowed doen by 1,5 seconds.

So there is a chance it will be a Porsche vs GT40 series with the Ferrari left out  :(. Or somebody has an idea how to fix it?

Easy.... Make the (restricted) Fezza only available for the slowest drivers  ::) 
No seriously. Could be based on championship positions maybe. It will be just a b***h to admin then...

Like Stephan says, Tony uses a top "X" drivers can only take the slower cars to make the races
more "interesting" Not sure how to do that with a one off "fun race"

Not a fan of artificial equality. It will be very hard to deside who will be eligible for the Ferrari and where the cut off is. It will just end up in anger and discussion, so I don't really see a solution in this option.

Have you tried combining restrictors with weight penalties?
I'm about to jump on the server and see what I can do in the 'slower' P4, before you lot change it again :P

I thought of that, but that's what I meant with making it feel awkward. The 25% air restriction slowed down by a few tenths and the 120kg around a second, so add them should roughly make it equal to the other 2, but will it still be driveable and fun?

One way to find out ;)
I'm now running a high 1:24 I recon with your current settings. I only did a quick few laps so mark can keep 4th spot for now ;D

120kg added is a lot, that’s got to make the cars dynamics change too much as it’s like driving with an adult and child in the car with you. Surely it’s the power that needs restricting via the air restrictor as doubt the Fezza is any more nimble in the corners than a 908.  :-\

With 25 restriction the Ferrari is already the slowest on the straight and the Porsche the fastest. Slowing the Ferrari down by purely going for air restriction will probably make it go into the 50+ restriction range, which will just make it a sitting duck.

Ferrari wins it by handling,  without the restriction, the Ferrari has roughly the same top speed as  the Porsche.

The Ford seems the slowest, which will mean slowing the Ferrari down even more and also the Porsche a bit, but that will be done after this race. First try and get the Ferrari balanced.

I 'll try the Gt40 today. I'm not a fan of this car, but i think she is even to 908 (almost on open servers where i raced).

The 330 P4 is faster of course. Maybe we can try 30% air restr. + 100 kg of ballast.

Those cars are not of the same year, and the rules changed. The Porsche has the smaller engine, 3 liters.

The GT40 is absolutely the most difficult to drive and push of the three. I think she is also slower, maybe 0,5-0,6 s than 908 (with a good setup).

If we can choose a skin can I have GT40 No.16 please?

Not for this round, but for the championship for sure. This round won't have an entry list.

So a small air restriction for the 908 would be justified, 20-25%?

We can try 20%.

i will test all 3 cars out boxing day and offer you my results.

Merry Christmas and Buon Natale to my fellow racers  :euro:
Here’s to more great racing in 2018  :)

You too.

That said, show must go on, so my next attempt will be Ferrari with 120kg and 30% restriction and the Porsche with 20%.
If you guys can test that? :)

The Ferrari came more into the ballpark of the other cars, but was around 10-15 kph slower on the straight.

Server has been restarted with Jeff's new handicaps. Ferrari and Porsche times invalidated.

Santa gave me more handicaps ;D.

Fast work Pete, thanks  :clap:

Merry Christmas, Gentlemen!
Put the cars on the box and start to up spirit!

(https://www.livegp.it/images/immagini/2016/F1/amarcord/snow_1973.jpg)

I hope that explains why i couldnt match the top times in the rarri.

I think it may need some more air restrictor tho, i managed a 1’23 in the rarri.. but i didnt give much time to the others.

We were with 25% air restr., no ballast.

Merry Christmas to all!  :angel:

Ok gentlemen, I taked the P4 and I did 7 laps with the new handicap
this is my pace
(https://i.imgur.com/fGzkhRu.png)
Interesting fact: obviously the car is a bit slower at the end of the Kink, but seem that new ballast increase his stability
For me is ok now here, we just need to look how it behaves on other tracks

I preferred the car with the ballast due to the extra stability, which it also received with the air restriction.

1.23.8 is still a bit too fast, but I'm not sure if that's the track or the car. We can see how this goed during the race, or push the balance further :-\

This is the reason I normally don't do mixed  grids. The cars in A.C. are so badly picked, just loose sand and hardly any cars are competitive with another car. Even the gt3 is terrible with balance.

I know, totally agree.
This race will be a good test, maybe in other tracks ferrari is less competitive, I don't know. Anyway ferrari, with a good setup have an excellent grip, and at Kyalami I found an excellent setup. For any further decision, needed more test.

Plus you have to remember, these fast times are being set by you few aliens doing a heck of a lot of laps...don’t forget the rest of us mortals need to be able to peddle the cars quickly enough to be competitive rather than driving a lame duck  :P

 That's irrelevant as I compare the laps set by the same driver. Porco and fabri have set laps in all 3 cars and all by doing a lot of laps, so I see that as reliable info :).

My time-lap on 908 is really good. I have a really nice setup and i pushed well.
Not sure if the gap is so severe for all pilots. Maybe can add a 25 kg ballast for 908.

25 kg plus the 20% air restriction?

Yes.

Well - it's working..
The GT40 is currently fastest  ;D

Where?

For me, although I'm about to try the Fez again...

NOTE: For tonight's race, you can use back to pits as often as required during the race. Because it's a test race and the more data, the better. Just don't abuse it and race around taking full risks.

Do we have any idea who's driving what tonight?
I drove the porsche last time we did pork Vs ford, so would rather drive either the Gt or P4.
But as it's a fun race (for science) I'd prefer to take the least well used car..

I'm going for the gt40.

GT40 for me also

I'll see how the server looks then - I might end up in the Fez at this rate! :o

For my sanity please don't keep swapping cars, you end up with multiple entries in the results file and I have to manually edit out the wrong ones.

I'm about to restart the server and from now on you'll need the password to get in. Enjoy your race later :)

I was thinking about picking the GT40 aswell.

Tried them all and the Fezza just didn't feel that fun with all that extra weight. Couldn't really get my head around the Porka aswell, though it sounds great. And, even though she is quite handful, I do think the GT40 is the sexiest of the bunch.

So I'm just gonna pick based on looks ( I know, I'm shallow  ;D )

Was intending to take the Ford, as I am a little faster in it than the Porka, though the pork
is easier to drive. Being as everyone seems to be doing the Ford, I wil try to do a few test
laps before joining, and may use the Fezz, as a speed limited Pork will put me too far behind
to have any fun. I am already  second slower in it on the server than I am with the Ford.

Haha, me too! Ferrari just doesn't do it for me, probably take the 908 - it looks a little odd and out of proportion to my eyes, yet beautiful also..

Good, i am going to stick with my bella macchina Ferrari  :wub: really like the other two cars also but I have been wanting to race with this beauty since it arrived....and that sound  8) Shame its now been made a bit lardy and taken up smoking with less air available  :laugh:

I 'll take the 908 LH. I think also Porco.

Fair enough, I'll take the Fez then. That at least gives us a good few of each - I seem to remember Porco also said he was Porking it ;D

Lmao, yeah, is very usual for me :D

Well just after getting bumped off by Daniel and watching him zoom off into the distance (merry Christmas to you too!) we had a power cut. Just about got the Genny all set up and the power came back on. I hate feckin Christmas.

At least, was a great race!
Great cars, great place!
I did a good qualify, second below Fabri, and I mantained the position until 2 laps to end.
I did a great duel firsts laps with Santini (damn dude, be slower next time :D )
2 laps to go...I watched my fuel gauge, and I saw that I had only for 2 laps at 4 mins to end! This news made me to mistake the "S", Santini overtake me and we touch.
Excuse me dude, I did some evaluation mistake, the space lenght in front me me, and I should have raised the throttle, so sorry dude.
No end for me, no enough fuel, but guys, these cars are so funny!

First off I must thank my Italian friends for running out of benzina and gifting me a podium right at the end  ;D
Grazie per il regalo ritardatario  ;D but unlucky guys, a cruel end for you.  :'(

What an event and race that was  8) stunning grid of exotica and great engine sounds  :wub:

Qually was very close with just tenths between 1st to 6th?  :o

Got a good start along with most others and it was all good clean fun into t1. I had a great race with fmg and Jeff for many laps. I noticed fmg was dicing with danger often on the exit of t2 into t3 and sure enough he eventually had a brutal smash into the Armco. Up one place. I had Jeff constantly breathing down my neck the whole race and I dreaded the main straight every lap as his GT wheeled me in. But I’d spent time improving my setup for braking at T1 so I was always able to leave it later than I knew the ford could  :)
Very late I saw a Porsche had dropped out from ahead so found myself now on a podium slot after being in 4th for so long. Amazingly I think another then fell out ? And I finished 2nd as far as I know  :clap:

Cracking race, I was soaked in sweat by the end, love this car grouping and hope we can get it to work.

Congrats to Fabri on the win and all who raced  :)

So sorry for that contact into the medium corner - you went wide, I went tight, and I thought I'd slide up the inside.  I spun you and waited...but your spin was like an a bad dream that never ends. I let everyone past  but then got on with it. Again, my bad, but I was all over you for a lap or two...racing incident.I ran out of fuel and focus, so didn't finish.

Qualification looked good, but when race fuel got added, it became clear that the GT40 drives around with 30kg of extra fuel penalty. These cars were far from balanced during the race, so I'm going to look for other option for the next series.

I thought that was pretty well balanced to be honest. The cars were very balanced in qually as you say - I actually thought I might have got lucky and kept a front row seat until Porko jumped me at the end :)

In race the GT still had a massive speed advantage over the Ferrari, and I suspect it had a small one over the Porsches too - this is probably what caused the contact between Baikel and I in Lap 2 or 3 that knocked me back to 7th or 8th, he couldn't have done that in another car I don't think. Even Santini's 908 didn't get that close that fast.

The only real disadvantage you showed me in your GT40 was under braking and in some of the tighter turns where the Fords lack of diff settings meant I could get the power on sooner.
You were braking roughly where I had been in practice in the GT, and I couldn't have passed you had it not been for you making a little mistake onto the main straight - just as I made a perfect exit :P - using your slipstream kept me close enough to easily dive up the inside into T1 with my better brakes (similar to my pass on Mark only slightly more one sided).
I actually think you could have come back at me had it not been for Mark hassling you from that point on ;D

I'm annoyed at myself for the wall bump out of T2, I'd been playing with lines and throttle points to see if there was an improvement to be had (Mark was gaining on me by about 0.05 secs/lap on average so I was trying to stall the advance), and I got onto the power slightly early while slightly too shallow for the apex. I thought I'd make it as I has a bit of a slide on so didn't back off, didn't work and I lost the lead lap in the pits fixing my car.

To make it worse I then got collected by a really weird accident between Porco and Manteos which damaged my car again and span me to a stop on the main straight - I had been slowly clawing my way back up to phspok at a couple of secs a lap and may have been close enough to pass by the end of the race.

Fun race before the accidents, one to forget and/or rage about after ;)

If any further alterations are required I suspect they may be a slight further reduction in the Porsches pace, although it's hard to tell as they were mainly driven by our fastest drivers.
Give it another round somewhere else Jeff and don't give up yet, we don't want or expect them to all drive the same  :)

I never stood a chance against the Ferrari's. I only gained on the straights at the last moment, but I then had to brake 50-100 metres earlier. The extra 30kg of fuel is what killed it I think, as that slowed down the already slowest car.
Looking purely at the hotlaps, the balancing seems pretty fine, but to make them closer during the race, we'd need to balance more. But that would mean the Ford will become the fastest during qually, so it's just never going to get balanced in a way that it's a fair fight.
Next series should start on the 10th of January, so that doesn't give a lot of time, so I think I'll resort to a single car series again.

Very sorry for the no show circumstances well beyond my control.

I think Ferrari is the faster, then there is Porsche, last Ford. 0,2-0,3s of gap for type of car; so more then half second between the 330 and GT40. And this track has a long straight that helped the GT40. This car is also really hard to drive.

Fuel, i used 53 liters, you with Ferrari and Ford?

My view from the back of the grid:

The Ford and Ferri are almost identical times for me, the weighted Ferri is much easier to drive
and more stable than the normal one. The handicapped Porsche is about a second slower for me
and before handicap was by far the easiest to drive.

I needed around 80-85 litres in the GT40.

Funnily enough I was thinking the same about the Ferrari being overly bloated with ballast and race fuel when the Porsches were able to just disappear into the distance! All the ballast/restrictor testing I assume had been done with lighter fuel loads? My laptimes were fairly tardy until I burnt some fuel off. I would say the porsche needs to be pegged back a bit more because if there are any more turns in a lap they will have even more advantage.
Is it possible to give negative ballast to a car in AC? Give the gt40 a -25kg for instance?

I'm not going to pursuit this combo anymore, if others want to, that's fine, but I don't see it worth the effort anymore.

eh? look at the laptimes, theres nothing in it! Only 3 cars did sub 1:24 and that was the 3 fast Italians in the 908 who I assume were all using the same setup? Everyone else had close racing and laptimes in both qually and the race. 3 different cars finished on the podium (albeit because of two benzina cockups  ;D ). Hence a tad more ballast or restrictor on the pork to peel them back to a 1:24 and bingo!

I think it was a great success and a fantastic group of cars.  :thumbup1:

B=M, but yeah that was me. It wasn't the difference in  power there, but the corner before I kept to the inside so I had a much better line for braking into that hairpin. You went wide the corner before so you had to move from one end of the track to the other so you had to brake earlier then me. I was actually aiming to go abit wide, throw the car around and get on the throttle asap. But I just had a massive brainfart at that time and seemed to forget the steering wheel was on the wrong side and the rest of the car was all on my left  ::)

I waited for you but ofcourse then I almost spun the next corner and actually spun the corner after that one as I just lost my mojo. 2nd to last after that but I had fun moving through the field. Was slowly closing in on  a battling Jeffrey and Mark but the race wasn't long enough for that. Also the last 2 -3 laps the tyres seemed to be losing grip as I just couldn't make T1 without drifting in an unsightly manner  ;D

Still,the cars seemed pretty balanced on this track. Don't know if its possible to do a 1,5x fuel on Fezza and Porks.

Me and Porco had the same setup, but Matteo no.
The 908 is a strange car to drive and set, need a particular driving-style. I 'm sure that Ferrari is again a bit faster, also Matteo said that.
GT40 is heavy and needs too much fuel more, maybe we can try a -80 kg ballast, if it possible.

For other possibility of champ.
-Lotus 72D, Ferrari 312T
-Porsche 962 long tail, Porsche 962 short tail, Mazda 787B.

Watching at the laptime table I was faster with the Ferrari in quali trim by 0.6 second compared to my best with Porsche. http://stracker.simracing.org.uk:50041/lapstat (http://stracker.simracing.org.uk:50041/lapstat)
Evenmore I can assure you that me, Fabri and Porco did not exchange our setup. Me and Porco were even in a different final gear ratio judging by the sound.
What leaved me a bit perplexed is the difference in the second sector of this track. If you see the best laps marked by every driver with Porsche and Ferrari, you will notice that there's a difference of about half a second (or more) only in that sector:
PorcoRosso86    ks_ferrari_330_p4    00:39.722
PorcoRosso86    [Porsche] 908 LH    00:40.208
fmg    ks_ferrari_330_p4               00:39.848
fmg    [Porsche] 908 LH                    00:40.459
Matteo Santini    ks_ferrari_330_p4    00:39.569
Matteo Santini    [Porsche] 908 LH    00:40.302

I guess that in a more twisted track with less straights Porsches and GT40 would be completely out of pace compared to the Ferrari. At the same time Ferraris would be outclassed in circuit like Le Mans... or Longford :D
That BoP worked quite fine here between Porsches and Ferraris, but not for the GT40. If we try it in a different kind of track we would have completely different results IMO. I don't see a way to balance these cars for the rest of the season unless we change restrictors/ballast in every race, and that would be totally unfair. The other way is to use the 3 phase system, so everyone will start in the same situation and will have to drive all the cars of the pack.
Just my two cents

I agree with Matteo, Ferrari is really better in corners and braking.


I don't like have to change cars in a champ.  ::)

Lotus and Ferrari are great, but we just had formula 1 series, so I'm going to a non open wheeler first.

We tried the group C cars a while back (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=14350.0) and the same story with all cars, they aren't balanced. I'm kinda waiting for Kunos to release another group C car, as I thought that was in the pipeline, but I may be wrong here. And knowing Kunos, it will probably be of another era which won't fit in  ::). I was thinking of either using the short tail or the Mazda 787 for a series, but purely single make series.


I agree, the cars differ in such a way, that it will be nearly impssible to balance them during a race, without making them completely useless on one department. The Ferrari will need to be slowed down even more, but then it will be so slow on the straights and not the car to pick on fast tracks and the GT40 will be horrible on twisty track. So the combo will only work great on a very specific track and even then, you will see rubberbanding between cars. Driving off on straight, catching in corners etc, but not real side by side racing, as the characteristics are just so different.

Not a fan of the 3 phase thing, as that forces people to learn 3 cars and I think it will turn out to be cupraces then, as people will take the best car for those 3 tracks.

This was just a fun race which was also used to test the possibility of this combo. Like I said, if somebody wants to continue to get these cars balanced, that's fine and we can always create a series then, but I don't think it will happen.

I haven't tried the Lola vs 917K, so maybe go for the safe option of the Alfa 33 series?

I saw the post and the lap-times, and this is hard to understand if it was even or not.
For my experence they are even (not the C9). On RSR i have the same lap-time with the 787 and 962 ST at Zandvoort.

I agree with you, in all "new" racing sim. it is really hard to do something like a "season". There are thousand of cars, maybe for people that is cool. But these cars are useless, cars from differents years or other shits like that. 908, 330 p4, GT40 are a simple ex.
I don't know if all started from rFactor (the worst game ever seen on earth) or what, but now all new titles are on this way.
Once with a sim. like GPL you can do a intere season with the correct tracks too...
So sad!

unfortuantely, online series work differently than the reality.
In the real world, the fastest car are taken from the fastest pilot, and they are paid a lot from the teams. The others needing to be satisfy. Online is totally different, every drivers want the same possibilites, the same car, and the final result come only from a good setup and excellent driving.
Only solution could be that the cars have the same charateristics, a championship with only hestetic differences.
But at least I think that the times and performances are much more close than the previously lotus 25 championship.

The 330, 908 and gt40 all historically raced each other so I’m not sure why they are so awkward to group in AC. The gt40 doesn’t seem to have enough setup options for a race car, it’s more like a road car setup  :-\

908 seems to have no problem racing the 330 at this tricky track config :-
https://youtu.be/WGkj464fP6Q (https://youtu.be/WGkj464fP6Q)

I think a 962 series is long overdue, there are loads of great skins for it and it’s a proper race car. If the Mazda can race it competitively then even better. Forget the c9 it’s too unique.

Kunos seem to be doing same as IRacing in giving us loads of standalone cars rather than cool groups of race cars (other than gt3)  :(

This why I keep paddling on with Race Room. The car handling, for the ones I use, are similar to AC
some prefer one or the other, but they are not worlds apart, but the groupings are fairly well done
There is usually one car in a set that for some has an advantage, but they are mostly very close.
AC and Pcars have some excellent cars, but as we already knew, it's very hard to get a good
match, even with cars that were historically close on the track.
Having said that my next couple of series seem to be Porkas and NSU. I might try a Turbo Capri series
like Tony's last one as well.

Isn't totally true, 908 was built just for the new rules, that reduce the engine displacement from 4000 to 3000.
Indeed 330 P4 didn't partecipate at 1968 championship, and caused Enzo Ferrari very angry for the new rules made "ad hoc" to contain the Ferrari supremacy.
The real 908 competitor was the Ferrari 312 P.
Different the case about GT40, but, If I remember right, GT40 win only on leMans and Sebring, fast tracks.
But maybe I say wrong, anyway that change nothing about the discussion.

I'm not really well known with the historics, so it's always fun to read these kind of stories :).

Yes, the 908 is a 3 liters engine. For 1968 and later, rules were 3 liters for prototypes (like 908) and 5 liters for Sport cars (like GT40 MK I and Lola T-70) In AC we have the GT40 MK II (7 liters), i think. Ferrari did not this championship in '68, as said by Porco. The 330 P4 is a 4 liters 450 hp good for '67 rules but no for '68.
So, if i'm not wrong, no one of these cars were directly rivals (maybe only in some and rare small races).

That's a Mk1 in AC, doesn't look like the later Mk1.5 (The 'true' gulf GT40's) so will be the 289 small block (4.7l). The MkII and MkIV GT40's ran for '67 with the MkI relegated almost exclusively to private entries, with the engine reductions of '68 the MkI was brought back and updated/improved by John Wyer. As you say though, they were only ever really competitive at Le Mans and Sebring as they were the races Ford wanted Success at, Just as Porsche had until then been mostly interested in winning the Nurburgring 1000km with Le Mans left to Ferrari pretty much until the 917 was developed.

I've been following this interesting thread from afar, as I was unable to join in the Kyalami race as planned.

To borrow from the book Animal Farm, all cars from the same class and year are equal, but some are more equal than others.  e.g. If AC did a DLC with two 2017 F1 cars and you had a choice between Mercedes and Sauber, which one would you choose?

The Mercedes C9 raced against the Porsche 962C in the 1990 Championship, and the C9 won most races.  The Mazda 787B and Porsche 962C raced against each in the 1991 Championship.  The 962C usually finished higher than the Mazda, except at Le Mans.

So any multi-car historic AC series you choose to do is likely to have one car which is dominant over the other/s.  Although that might vary from track to track.

So, either you have a single car series, where everyone is equal (except some drivers are faster and/or some have better setups), or an authentic 2 or 3 car series and don't worry about the differences in car performance.

Good interesting info  :) I think we have more historic racing fans than modern on here.

I thought they all raced together st ‘67 Le Mans but appears Porsche used the 906 there
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans)

we should also test the Lola against the gt40 and 330.

For me prototypes '60 are ok. For me the small gap between cars is no a really problem. In my opinion we can go with these cars.
Your opinions guys?

I did:


That car really has no business between the other 3 cars  :P

It is the Can Am version to be fair, might as well chuck the 917TA into the mix  ;D

Yeah just tried them too at Kyalami before seeing your reply. The Lola’s fight nicely with the 917 again but both are about 2-3 secs faster than the second tier of vintage gt’s.

Would make a cool Le Mans or Sebring though with two classes  8)

For me, the 917 is quite a bit faster than the Lola. The Porsche is 1:18-1:19 at Kyalami and the Lola is in the 1:20-1:21 range.

Which Lola though? The Ford is lower powered than the Chevy, you have to choose which model from the spanner symbol. I expect the 917 would have the edge whatever as it was ‘The’ 60’s prototype that dominated its era in sportscar/endurance racing  :)

I know, the Chevy is about a second faster than the other one, which was around 1:21-1:22. Which is why they were both still too fast for the other cars :(.

I know, that's what I said a few posts above  ;) I meant in relation to the 917  :)

I didn't personally try the 917 at Kyalami, just the Lola ford against a grid of Ai cars using all the other vintage sports cars. The Ai top 7 were all 917 and Lolas mixed up, doing 1:21's then the rest.

But I already said the 917 was faster than the Lola, as within 2 laps I was able to get into the 1:19's  :P. I don't trust AI laptimes, the AI is so bad in this game. Making screenshots for race threads is a nightmare, often I have to retart the race multiple times, because the AI ia crashed before the end of lap 1.