SimRacing.org.uk

Is there any concensus with regard to the minimum spec machine that will run GPL at 60fps in a reasonable manner?

Does anyone actually get 60fps all the way around Spa67?

I do, but my PC is fairly ridiculous by GPL specs as it's used for much more modern stuff - upto and including Assetto Corsa in VR which is a bit of a killer!
As I remember it the individual clockspeed of the processor cores is almost more important than the graphics card as GPL doesn't really make much use of it.

I'm not sure about minimum specs though - I'd have thought SRMZ would be the best place to ask?

Clive you can find considerations about fps at Spa in theese posts:

https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=14324.15

https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=14624.0

Hope it helps
Ciao

I would say a cheap intel i3 > 3000MHz (or Pentium) 8GB of RAM and a graphics card with 128 bit memory bandwith.

I have bought an used business bundle
- i3 4130 - Gigabyte B85 Mobo + 8GB DDR3 RAM 1333 for 120€
+ a used GTX 660 for 55€

That is Spa67 full grid 69X @ 60fps!

Thanks all.  Especially Cookie as I can pass on that info without having to understand anything!  ;-)

I may have a GTX 660 knocking around.

Thanks Mike but I was asking the question for a third party and he has wandered off on his own.

But I'm now looking at the options for me and I have a suitable GFX card.
 

Am I correct in thinking that there would be little to be gained from an i5 or i7 processor with more cores, since it's the frequency of operation on a single core that is paramount?

Yes Clive, there would be nearly no difference at same MHz,
a higher MHz i5 will be much better than a slow i7  ;)

Can't speak for GPL, as I haven't run it for ages, but it's likely same deal as GTL, where it is a single threaded app
but, you can get windows to run it accross multi cores with CPU affinity settings, I have no idea how that works
but if you do that your frame rate does go up surprisingly.

LOL

Come off it me old mate, you are talking to the original PC Numpty here!  

When I started GPL (2003) I knew bugger all about computers and as such chose PC Numpty as my VROC nickname.  Trouble was that everyone thought that I was a police constable so I had to shorten it to Numpty.  ;-)

I now know twice bugger all, so it is still relevant!

Fair enough..  ::)

I'm pleased to report that, following Axel's recipe, my new racing pc is up and running.

I purchased a motherboard and ram bundle off ebay (Gigabyte GA-H61M-DS2 REV 1.0 LGA1155 i3-3240 @ 3.4GHz 8GB RAM Bundle) at £100

My son-in-law donated a Radeon HD 6870 to the project and I picked up a 480GB SSD for £30.  ;-)

A friend donated an LED tv that was no longer wanted and I knitted it all together with Windows7, which was about £12.

The weak point is the screen, since it seems to have pixels the size of threepenny bits and hence I cannot go beyond 1366x768 in resolution but I have to say that when I have my chin on the tank heading towards Masta the odd pixel is neither here nor there!

It is running on Open GLv2, which I don't think I've done before.

Let's see what happens at Spa on Sunday.  It bangs out 60fps over the full lap, when I can look that is, so I'm hoping that I might be able to stay out of the hedges and ditches, which is where I usually ended up when the old pc tried to figure out which way was up!  :-)

Excellent news  ;D so now you can do Race room and Asseto Corsa  :yes: :whistling:

Clive you need an HD monitor at 1920x1024, 22" or 24" LED monitor aren't so expensive today and better for your eyes.  ;)
Ciao

Cheers Fulvio, I shall keep a lookout but I might have spent up at the minute.




LOL
Sorry, they just can't hold a candle to a Vanwall with brake fade!!!!

Fulvio is right though, you need a 1920x1080 monitor, cheap as chips from Scan

https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/monitors/monitor-led-lcd-24inch-25inch

Great news Clive, grats!

Yes I agree with Fulvio, an old TV isn't the best, but it has a big screensize I presume...

For the HD 6870 I would recommend to use the Catalyst 15.7.1 as it has the best OpenGL driver for GPL.

I will host SPA67 - 55 today on UKGPL_8 for practice ;)

Santa has supplied a 27" HD monitor which has given me a beautiful view at 2560x1440 and runs Spa67 at 60fps!

But I still can't see the bottom of the Maserati rev counter and can't find any setting to change the depth of the black section at the bottom.  ;-(

In GEM+ you can activate the "no letterbox" patch to get a full monitor.

The POV can be moved by GPLShift with keyboard in every position you want it.

Thanks Axel.  I thought that GPLShift was just a gearbox thing.   ::)

GPLShift seemed to stop Prib and I couldn't change gear with the paddles.  So I unpatched it and put it in the bin.

Guess that I have to find a no-letterbox patch before I can enable it?

I have both working fine here with the 55s

a snapshot with my mobile phone:
(https://www.bilder-upload.eu/thumb/3050dd-1545996357.jpg) (https://www.bilder-upload.eu/bild-3050dd-1545996357.jpg.html)

I give you all my prib + GPLShift files, just put in your GPL folder and run the patcher. then let GEM+ make new exe!

https://www.sendspace.com/file/1p1z6a

Thanks for your help Axel.

I now have the "no letterbox" patch and can see all of the revcounter and all of the mirrors too!

I seem to have lost the editing controls when watching the replays.  :-(

There are different sort of no letterbox patches! Read the readme, I have full screen when racing and black bars for rpy...

In Case they are useful...


Keyboard Replay Controls...

C = Change Camera (forwards)
SHIFT + C = Change Camera (backwards)

V = Change Driver (forwards)
SHIFT + V = Change Driver (backwards)

Numberpad 1 = Forwards To End Of Vid

Numberpad 4 = Rewind Slo-Mo
SHIFT + Numberpad 4 = Fast-Rewind (upto x16 Speed)
CTRL + Numberpad 4 = Back to previous session

Numberpad 5 = Stop/Continue (Normal Speed)

Numberpad 6 = Forwards Slo-Mo
SHIFT + Numberpad 6 = Fast-Forward (upto x16 Speed)
CTRL + Numberpad 6 = Advance to next session

Numberpad 7 = Rewind To Start Of Vid

I do find sometimes the numlock state gets confused, if some dont always work try numlock on /off.

C, V (and with Shift) can also be used in practice sessions to view other drivers etc.

TTFN
John.

Thanks John

Hi guys.

If everything goes according to plan. I might have a little bit more free time at home. And that would allow me to start racing again(at least occasionally).

Currently I'm using 32" monitor, but I want to add another two screens, or maybe get myself Samsung 32:9 monitor(I was thinking about getting big TV, but that wouldn't work for anything other than simracing).  Question is would it work with my specs.
I have:
x4 880k
rx480(8GB)
24GB RAM
Win10

If you use 3x 32" full HD monitors I see no problem, but for higher resolutions the CPU could be a bottleneck.

I'm very pleased with my current pc but why can't I get a screen dump fromGPL?   ???

Instead of the GPL screen it saves the desktop instead.

The problem is OpenGL...

Since windows XP a GPL screen capture does not work anymore.

There are some apps that can handle it.
I use Fraps,
NVidia and AMD have something built in their complete monstrous software suites that can, but I never use it...

Thanks Axel.  I have never used OpenGL until now.

Sorry for the late reply, but with my job it's easy to forget about online stuff.


Thanks Axel, but in the end I went with new PC and 50" 4k tv.
Now my problem is with resolution. I've set resolution in Gem+ to 4k. it worked for a while but afther I wanted to set up my new wheel, menu got messed up:
(https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/800x600q90/924/mobOb1.jpg)

IMO this has to do with the GPU settings, using the monitor and not the GPU for the resolution, where you set the "keep aspect ratio"

I'll look into it, when I'll get back home. Thx.

Could I just switch to one of the other rasterizer options or will all hell break loose?

It won't, the menues will be better, but the fps will be lower...

As OGL is open software MS does boycot it!
GPL can use OpenGL very well and the NV/AMD GPU driver is responsible for it.

You have Direct 3D V2 as alternative, based on DX7 wich is not supported well by MS anymore.
If you want to use it, make shure you have installed "DX9 0610" wich contains all former DX stuff!

Thanks Axel.

I just knew it wasn't going to be simple! 

Not difficult to try:
DL  DX9 0610 (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/confirmation.aspx?id=8109) unpack and run setup.exe

Another thing could help the 4GBpatch (https://ntcore.com/?page_id=371) if you have more than 4GB RAM on your PC

copy the exe in gpl folder and run it, patch gpl.exe. Then run GEM and let GEM write new gpl55.exe by starting it from GEM

Hmmmm...

Sounds ok but GPL always manages to kick me in the teeth when I try messing with it like this.

Think I will try after Dundrod  Then I will have two weeks to get it running again. 

Many thanks.

 >:D Beware those little GPL Gremlins muhahahahah,  if they can screw up your race......they bl**dy well will!! At least, that is my experience.  :-\

I just moved GPL to a new PC with an i7 chip but I went with Windows 8.1 Pro because I much prefer it to Win10.

The graphics card is an ATI Radeon HD 4670.

Should I stick to OpenGL?
Would GPL happily run at 1920x1080?

Yes Mike use openGL
with Catalyst 13.1->  https://www.amd.com/en/support/graphics/amd-radeon-hd/ati-radeon-hd-4000-series/ati-radeon-hd-4670

But it is a very low end graphics card and will be a bottleneck...

Try to get a second hand graphics card of HD 68xx or HD 78xx generation wich were much better and cost ~25€ here

OK, thanks.

I've switched to a new PC but eveyr 4 minutes, something is interrupting GPL and I can't find what it is.

The graphics splutter and sometimes the sound goes. If I click the mouse in the gpl window it goes back to normal.

What could be hijacking GPL?

This is probably silly but...Screensaver/hibernation settings?

Not silly but already checked those.

I seem to have fixed it by stopping a few processes running under my user account.

Look also for the energy saving settings and set it to high performance. GPL is not recognized as a 3D app!

In GEM+ options "disable intel speed step" must be checked.

I'll check the speed step setting but I seem to have solved it by uninstalling Catalyst Control Centre.

I turned on auditing in Group Policy and saw that the CCC.exe app was trying to launch and I haven't had the issue come back since removing it.

I'll have to try an online session as well though, if somebody wants to run a server later. :)

I fitted a new graphics car, a GTX760 and it is running at 1920x1080 but GPL does not offer me that resolution and wants to run in a squarer resolution.

Am I missing something or will GPL not run at 1920x1080?

Even if it is not shown in GEM, the native Res of your Monitor should be shown in game, options, on the bottom of the choices ;)

Nice card, should do the work, look for Stefans Roess's settings for NVidia GPU to do it 3D mode...

I've just switched from a Radeon HD 6870 graphics card to an Nvidia GTX 660, on the basis that it works for Axel.

I think that it is actually an improvement, not that I was suffering much with the Radeon card.

Do you now get micro-stutters online whenever someone connects/disconnects/a chat message (worse with more text) is displayed?

Not been on-line yet.

EDIT: Gave it a go at 36fps in 67mod and didn't notice anything.

I have not seen any stutters related to messages or people entering or leaving the server but last night at Ain Diab I had a problem with the frame rate dropping to about 30fps at certain parts of the circuit.  This continued throughout the whole event.  I left the server and rejoined during qually to see if it had any effect but sadly it didn't.

I didn't notice it when I joined the practice servers but I can't be sure, they were not there for long.

Any ideas?

The same problem during the race, around T4.
Not only a drop in fps (from 60 to 50) but also a little jerky.
This with a more powerful card (gtx1080)

IMO your overkill GPU falls asleep...

I bet your CPU and GPU are idling

Get the openhardwaremonitor.org and look what the clocks are doing when you drive.

Axel,
I couldn't get openhardwaremonitor to work (it just shows the motherboard and cpu without any indication)
So I installed psensor (less complete), indeed after a quick tour on Aindiab, although I don't have the fps drop like on the server, I get 43% usage for the gpu and 22% max for the cpu...

I have turned down the quality on my GTX660 to 50 percent. It had no problems at Torino last night but RACER only use 36fps.

With the problem at Ain Diab being at the same point each lap it must surely be track related.

I will give it a trial on Spa but I only get a problem when on line.

@Clive, my advise is to turn the quality as high as possible (~73%) to not let the GPU idle! Set the AA to 4x (disable intel speed step) for Win

@ Christian, yes the OHWM does not help much in linux. I use a combi of CPU-X and psensor

Main thing is the CPU running top frequency - load is not as important!

..maybe this helps in linux to keep the CPU from idling
(https://i.ibb.co/5kgc3QV/Bildschirmfoto-2021-10-13-17-44-09.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

just tested on my office PC (GT 1030 passive) full grid start at Spa67 from rear with full 60 fps

set to
(https://i.ibb.co/42cZFwn/Bildschirmfoto-2021-10-13-18-07-57.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

short clip: https://www.mediafire.com/file/21e9wfj54jj5ii3/simplescreenrecorder-2021-10-13_18.19.14.m4v/file

I only seem to have the options of 100% quality, 100% performance and 50/50.

Off-line I can run a full grid of AI at Spa without any problem.

Until the race on Sunday I didn't think that I had a problem!

Where do I set AA 4x?

ok, in the GPU driver you set to max quality - but in game set the detail slider to ~73%

This Ain-Diab track seems to have a problem with drawing distances...

AA = anti aliasing

Axel, I don't see anything with cpu x that allows to change the CPU frequency...?

I take the occasion to ask, what is the lod bias in the Gem settings?
And what are the best settings for Rasteriser?

Thanks Axel, yes I knew what AA was, just not where to set 4x but found it in the Nvidia control panel.

I had run the GPU at 100% on the GPU driver since installation and had no problems until Sunday at Ain-Diab.  I don't know what the detail bias is set to in the game but will check next time I fire up the racing PC.

But why does it only happen on-line?

Thanks again.  :thumbup2:

@Clive

online the chat + messages are running in the background what eats a lot of CPU load - this is the main problem of our version of OGL: displaying fonts
minimize message font size in the gplshift.ini!

@Christian

in mint I installed "cpupower-gui" this is what is shown in the pics above ;)

my settings
(https://i.ibb.co/BcpfKSz/Bildschirmfoto-2021-10-14-15-55-55.png) (https://imgbb.com/)

So......
The chat uses CPU power even if no messages are being received and the track's draw distance issues push it over the edge when on certain parts of the track?

I don't know everything about these problems but in SRMZ there is a thread about this topic where many people wrote about it.

You can see the font/text phenomenon yourself if you change the info on the left side next to the TV in the game menu. More live text makes more jerks inTV.

Is that at the end of a sector, when times are refreshed in Pribluda?

I have a weak system. Under Win7, sure I got some occasional lower-FPS at times (start of race etc)  but didn't suffer from any chat/connect/disconnect messge stutters. But I was aware of plenty of others with that issue.  I DO have the issue under Win10  (both from Win7->Win10 update,  and also with a fresh Win10 install).

At one track (possibly Nassau with 55 cars) I was sometimes getting a constant 30FPS. I got better results by switching off the latency bars.

In the Monza10K 55 race, I had bad FPS issue at the start (probably all those cars ahead to look at!).  I downloaded the lite 55 carset for Ain Diab, but not sure if it helped.

Otherwise, everyhing mostly works fine & GPU clocks do ramp up / CPU is stuck running full whack.

Yes, Nassau in the original version made my PC also down to 30fps (because of VSync!) but after I installed Ginettos patch all is fine ;)

As long as you use Win as OS, I recommend to use the openhardwaremonitor to see in the graph,
if the speed step of the CPU is switched off and the GPU frequency runs full throttle.

whenever I sit in the car the clocks go to maximum

(https://i.ibb.co/MyTk27L/ohwm1.png) (https://ibb.co/PspGmg8)

OHM installed and the CPU clocks appear to be on maximum when GPL is running.  I haven't gone as far as jumping in and out of the car and then looking at the graph.

Great, now look for the GPU clocks as well ;)

CPU clock goes up when a gplxx.exe is running

GPU clocks need stimulation by high quality + AA settings - but too high can be contraproductive...

That seems a bit more complicated.  The GPU clock was something >1000GHz to begin with, which looked to be about a 60% loading but whilst I was still lapping it dropped to a 20% loading.

I will have to take another look tomorrow.

The load of the GPU does not matter (as long not constant 100%)

Main thing is to have a high GPU + VRAM clock frequence.
Your GTX 660 is good because it has a wide 192 bit memory bus

GPL needs a fast bus for the transport of many small video pakets from the CPU to GPU

For GPL we use ~ 75% Cpu and 25% GPU

modern games do much more video computing of the GPU

I would rather have the opposite!
Even using CPUPower, with GPL, I get 25/30% load for the CPU and more load for the GPU. (40% I think)
But I am almost always at 59/60fps.

With GTL, (and still CPUPower) it uses only one core unfortunately and the GPU at 80/90% (fps 90/150)

Only with modern sims (Assetto, graphics at max) all cores are used (around 40%) and the GPU at around 80%

Well the idle clock on the GPU and its memory is at 324MHz

When I'm driving GPL then the GPU Memory goes to 800MHz and the GPU Core is at 700MHz.

I tried increasing the AA to 8x but it had no effect.

Obviously the GPU isn't idle but are those clock speeds adequate? 

I was running Assen67 in 55mod and what an awful place to have to learn at my time of life!  Never know which left-hander is coming next!

The hw load says little about the GPL gaming quality - GPL needs speed ;D

I tried the start at Spa67 with both the settings of the CPUPower shown above,  there was a big difference in smoothnes and sharpness of the game.

@Clive

The full clocks would be ~ 980 and 1500

You are on the right way, but a pushing NV setting seems to be missing.

My problem atm is that I have no Win PC with NV GPU - so no idea how NV utility looks today in W...

Stefan made the install guide, when you scroll down to NV settings maybe you find it http://www.gplworld.de/en/grand-prix-legends/gpl-easy-installation-guide

Stefan's Nvidia stuff takes me well out of my comfort zone.
I've made some changes in line with his suggestions but all I can say is that I haven't killed it yet.
When I try starting at the back of a full grid of AI at Spa67, it drops the frame rate to thirty something. But it starts to recover almost immediately. It's up to 60 by Stavelot.

The 30 fps is the VSync wich halves  when not full 60 is possible, that is ok.

But important is the oHWM plot graph, showing the clocks - maybe it needs some time to switch to full speed.  ::)

Maybe someone with a Windoze and NV graphic card can help....?

I'm not on my pc at the moment but I have found a magic setting in the Nvidia control panel.

I now sit on the grid at 45fps and it reaches 60fps on the way to Les Combes.

The GPU clocks spring straight to max when in the car and stay there.

Now try
reduce the AA to 4
and

set the AFiltering to 16 full!

The detail slider in game to ~ 66%

The mirrors in game options in the medium position

38fps on the grid but it improved at the start and was again at 60fps by Les Combes.

GPU Mem  running at 3004.7 MHz
GPU Core running at 1019.0 MHz

It was setting the Power Management Mode to Prefer Maximum Performance that woke it up.

Hmm..........

It would appear that off-line the CPU clock goes to max and stays there but when on-line the clock is all over the place.

I was running on the 55mod practice server and whilst the frame rate was a solid 60, the clock was not constant.

Do you have more than one installs?

Does the path in igor show the same gpl55.exe as the GEM offline?

As far as I know there is only one install.

I will double check.

Only a single install.

Here are the traces for on-line and off-line.

ON-LINE

(http://www.planet-venom.co.uk/gpl/GPL55/OHM 2021-10-19 On-line Assen Solo.jpg)

OFF_LINE

(http://www.planet-venom.co.uk/gpl/GPL55/OHM 2021-Off-line.jpg)



Both of the above sessions were at a solid 60fps.

Have you set the Win energy settings to high performance?

I will look it's deep in the settings...

My german version...

(https://i.ibb.co/60BQmdq/Energy.png) (https://ibb.co/JjQZKhS)

I think that I have changed that but it didn't help.

Clive try to connect online via IP to find out if it's the same phenomen as via iGOR ::)

Well done Axel, that seems to have cracked it.
(http://www.planet-venom.co.uk/gpl/GPL55/OHM%202021-Join via IP.jpg)

I found this as iGOR neutralizes "disable intel speed step" also in linux  :o

That could be worth knowing.

I suppose that now I just have to ensure that the temperatures stay low enough, when everything is running flat out?

Many thanks. :thumbup2:

Temps will be no problem as the load is not as high as when you have lower clocks.
Of course it makes sense to look after them...