SimRacing.org.uk

1955 Grand Prix - Round 4 – Parco del Valentino

Parco del Valentino (also known as Valentino Park) is a popular public park in Turin, Italy. It is located along the west bank of the Po river.  Several races were held here between 1935 and 1954, it is the 1954 layout that we will be using for this race.  This is a very challenging circuit with virtually no run-off areas, plenty of undulations and blind corners.  Discretion is the better part of valour for this track.

Carefully read the rules on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=639&theme=6).

Race list	iGOR
Server	UKGPL_8
IP address	See IGOR
Date	01-07-2018
Track	turin55 (http://srmz.net/index.php?showtopic=2903)
Mod	55F1 with 60fpsV2newmod
Damage	PRO long
Race time	~ 21:30 UK time
Qualifying	20:45 UK time - 45 minutes
Race length	26 laps
Replay	here (ftp://ftp.ukgpl9.co.uk:32122/Season33/55GP)

Please restrict chat to emergency messages only including at the end of the race until ALL drivers still racing have crossed the line.

Password: see above (#post_event_password)
Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=639&theme=6)

Handicapping and chassis allocation.
This season the 1955 Grand Prix cars will be using a token system which allows drivers to purchase any chassis of their choice for a given number of tokens as published on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=639&theme=6). Drivers classed as Amateurs will be allocated an additional 10 tokens.  The token allocation will not be managed in SRou this season so (unlike the 67F1 Works and 67F1 Privateer divisions) the tokens available to each driver will not appear in the championship table (when the mouse pointer is hovered over the driver's total).  Rather, the available tokens will be published in the race announcement. See table below.

Available Tokens:
Note: These are the tokens available to each driver before the 10 tokens are added for making the race start.

Driver	Tokens	Status
bagrupp	7	Pro
Clive Loynes	22	Pro
Doni Yourth	30	Pro
EvilClive	8	Pro
fpolicardi	8	Am
francesco	15	Am
Phil Thornton	15	Am
DLogan	16	Am
Gareth	20	Am
Jeep	12	Am
Uli	8	Pro
FullMetalGasket	40	Pro
Will Tway	10	Pro
Baab	18	Am
Cookie	0	Pro
Samb	10	Pro

Not a lot of banter on here.

Is anyone turning up tonight?

Just starting practice - assuming I have the track....

One other thing - can you give the server a different car please?
When It's got the Gordini I always seem to end up in something that doesn't have a brake indicator...

That must be tricky!

The server could use the Merc SL here without upsetting many people.  ;-)

I'm no where near even being somewhat safe on this track. Do brakes do nothing? Of course, expected, dealt with. So rely on engine braking (Plan B).

Which slows me down some times, others (approaching same corner, same line, same stance and speed and rpm and all) and no slow at all and wham.

GLA, cyas next (maybe).

Grats to Clive and to Tim (in that infuriatingly quick Gordini), I guess that you two finished 1st and 2nd after I got a screen freeze about 3 laps from the flag.


It looked like a few others also got disco'd as after only a few laps my prib showed only 4 cars running...and then just us 3?

It IS a tricky circuit Dean and I struggled to control the brake fade. Even resorted to picking 3 brake markers for each corner!! one for green, one for yellow and one for red  :-\ Whatever I did it did not appear to give me a reliable amount of brake fade and there were several instances where the bales provided the last bit of retardation.

It is a nice track, I saw it today the first time, but with these stupid cars brakes no joy...
such a shame as these cars could make real fun if the remaining brakes would be 10% better ::)

I lost my RF wheel at an invisible wall cutting over the boardwalk, so an early ending.

That is a very difficult circuit in the 1955 cars.  But it is possible to race, so long as you don't try to drive it as a '67 car.

The brakes are variable, depending on how often you use them.  Once you have established a routine for a lap they are not an issue.

If you are following another car you may be dabbing the brakes without knowing it.  That can cause you to think that something is inconsistent but the inconsistency is you.

My brake indicator showed all the three colours over practically every lap, all the way to the end.

I had the advantage of already having messed up three '55 races at this track so I spent some time sorting out a setup that would be quick enough without blowing the engine, which was something that I was doing a few days back.  This morning I did a 32 lap stint on Pro mode to test that the engine would last, so long as I was a good boy on my gear changes.  I was ready for the race!

From the black lines that appeared on the track surface in practice, some people didn't look to have done a lap prior to this event.  I don't think that this approach is going to bring the required results because the '55 mod is a serious challenge for even the most experienced GPL driver.

But please don't winge about the brakes, just figure out where you can use them.  It's the same for all.  (Unless you are in a Gordini.  The brakes on that are lined with Weetabix)

It's no good saying that it is wrong or no good,  just because it isn't the same as the '67 original.

It's a brilliant mod!!!   ::)

I had some frustrating practice two days ago without manage to keep the brakes more than two lap. Tonight I took the track more seriously and managed to run 6 laps with Bastian on my neck, but suddenly braking for the chicane before the long straight my car swerved to the right an got a light pylon and ended on fire. End of the game. Congrats to who survived.
Ciao

I fully agree with Clive Loynes that these cars are an entirely different challenge and should not be compared to the 67's ( or any other mod that we have in GPL).
Personally I find the brake fade issue the very thing that makes this mod so much fun. If the 55's had the same brakes as the 67's, then it would just be the same racing but with different skins??? Following another car closely is very difficult, just as Clive says and I find that I am instinctively tapping the brakes to avoid contact. Unfortunately, when it comes to a big corner half of my brakes are used up and I can be in trouble.

I have found that it takes a change of mind set to drive these cars aggressively. I had not realised just how I was balancing all of the other mods through corners using both the brakes and the gas, and doing that in 55's just does not work for more than a lap or two. I have to really concentrate and tell myself to keep my foot off that brake pedal until I absolutely need it, and yet half way through a race I find that I am reverting to my usual driving style and have to re-focus.

There is a rumour of a 1935 mod somewhere deep in the backroom development area?......so what sort of brakes ( if any!!) might those have????!!! Maybe we will have to plan our braking a lap ahead? or find a way of driving without brakes!!! lol. But if it offers us the chance to experience some of the challenges of that era, I am all for it.  ;D

Well, a really disappointing night for me. Qualified as best of the rest behind the front 3 but still felt pretty good though having turned in quite a few laps around here in the 55's and knew my Q time was about a second off my PB.

Got stuck behind Tim's French slug off the line but wasn't worried as I knew once he got up to speed he would hopefully drag me back towards the leaders. I never got the chance to find out though as I was completely caught out by his braking point into the chicane on Lap 1. It was obviously a choice of taking us both out (And probably others). So I chucked it sideways and took to the grass in the hope of rejoining once everyone had gone past unfortunately some idiot had put a lamp post right right on my escape trajectory and I ended up on my roof. :(

Oh well.

I still think the brake face needs a little tweaking. Based on nothing more than "Gut feeling" I think the build up of temperature and recovery after they overheat should be more gradual, more so on the build up side. Drums they may be but they are stuck out in the breeze unlike tin top racing of a similar era. (But JMO, not based on any real knowledge).
 
TTFN
John.
 

I'm sure that you will get the hang of it Fulvio.  As Evil Clive says it takes a different approach.  You cannot use your brakes as a suplimentary steering aid.  ::)

The next event is Monza 10K and to be honest the brake management should not be an issue.  The racing is at least three times as difficult because you do not have the option of jumping on the anchors to get out of trouble.

However, those who found that the brakes were an issue here should start to practice for Aintree now!  And avoid using a car at Monza that leaves you with no option other than the Gordini at Aintree.  ;-)   Unless your name is Tim!

I was test driving this mod and there were beta versions with more brake left under red!

I do never compare them to 67s, but we had a feedback of a RL Mercedes mechanic,
who confirmed that these cars never had problems with the brakes, you can see the big cooling brake drums they used...

Those drum brakes were racing brakes and not drum brakes of american street cars ;D

Agreed, and that's my feeling. They should not build up heat so quickly neither should they retain the heat for so long. But as always I acknowledge the research carried out by the mod teams and am happy to accept it even though it doesn't feel quite right to me. I guess it's just such a big step from what we are used to.

TTFN
John.

Was quite comfortable after a few laps with the slow gordini but was
getting unconcentrated after 12 Laps and got stuck into the hay T1.
Coudln't get free and only three laps more for a classification...

Did anyone else get a screen freeze?

I was basically cruising along in 2nd spot after Mr Loynes had eased away in his Maserati by half way and I had a similar gap back to Tim and his turbo enhanced Gordini.

Then, as I approached the tight hairpin at the far end of the circuit ...everything froze and I had the Ctrl-Alt-Del to crash out of GPL withjust 2 laps left to go.  :-\

You and Axel are probably quite correct.  But we have what we have and there is no point in driving the cars the way that they "should" be.

I have no experience of how these cars behaved and I never shall.  You have to play them as you find them.

The very clever people who knit these mods together have made it more difficult.  Fair enough.  On the other hand you don't die when you get the Masta Kink wrong.  Is that wrong too?  The "gods" who actually drove these cars only ever got to make one mistake in all their practice, qualifying and race laps.  In GPL we are immortal, so is it not fair to impose some sort of restraint on our ability to go flat out at everything?

Of course you are right Clive, we have to use what we got...

But I have made my decision to race these cars only on tracks that suit them imo ;)

LOL  I race on whatever the season demands.  I've even been known to race at Nurburgring if I absolutely have no other choice!   ::)

But what do you mean by suits it?  Surely you don't want it dumbed down to 65mod level all the time?

That was tough, and it resulted in Tim not getting his full set of 3rd places too!

I don't think that anyone else had a freeze or anything like.  Fulvio had a strange car "lock up" where his car suddenly thought it was a Honda and veered off the track for no apparent reason!

I've done a lot of races and both on and off-line running and never had an issue.

I prefer to race with a car I can handle and I have not to fight with abnormal brake fade...
I said 10% more braking left! Not Thundercars...

My favourite cars are the Sport Cars of 1967, I hope we will get the refurbished X version soon ;)

The track seemed to have no bugs from my side.

I'll take 2nd - I need all the points I can get when we start on the twistier tracks.
I was only able to brake 2.5 times a lap (Hence my comparatively early braking - sorry Jeep) and even that would sometimes cause brake failure if I'd carried a little more speed than usual somewhere...
Aintree is going to be VERY hard in the T16....

Pleased to hear it.   ;D

I was using the brakes in four places, two heavy and two less so.  I find that a short stab is better than gentle application over a long period.  That just heats them up.

I've loaded the chassis the drivers used into the token calculator spreadsheet.  For the next race the available tokens will be as declared in the table below (the table will also appear in the next race announcement).  The calculated values are automated but selecting the cars is a manual process so please check your tokens to make sure I haven't made a silly error.  There was no token overspend for this round so no one is disqualified.

Available Tokens:
Note: These are the tokens available to each driver before the 10 tokens are added for making the race start.

Driver	Tokens	Status
bagrupp	17	Pro
Clive Loynes	20	Pro
Doni Yourth	30	Pro
EvilClive	13	Pro
fpolicardi	8	Am
francesco	15	Am
Phil Thornton	15	Am
DLogan	16	Am
Gareth	20	Am
Jeep	12	Am
Uli	8	Pro
FullMetalGasket	50	Pro
Will Tway	10	Pro
Baab	18	Am
Cookie	10	Pro
Samb	10	Pro

Mod report published.

Brakes are for wimps anyway!  ;D 
Only 2 braking points for me at Parabolica and into Lesmo 1, anywhere else was a downshift and a quick flick of the steering to provoke a drift through the apex.
TBH I totally forgot about the brake fade issue because I had as much retardation as I could use whenever I wanted it........but Aintree WILL be very different.

Get mable to make you another coffee there Evil.  You are talking about the wrong track!

To continue your Monza theme, I needed brakes at three places in the SL.  You probably saw the tyre smoke on the approach to Curva Grande.  Damn thing weighs so much that I couldn't get enough turning effect from the tyres to keep it out of the Armco without a dab of brakes and a downshift.

oops! nurse has not administered my morning medication yet  :-\

LOL

Poor old bugger.  Just sit quietly for a while.   ::)