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UKAC => UKAC Races => Topic started by: Mark J on November 25, 2018, 06:35:51 PM +0000



Title: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 25, 2018, 06:35:51 PM +0000
Password entry (on day of race)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4855/46047000841_c47bcc52e9_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2da1V6B)

Race 1
Practise: 19:30 (45 mins)
Qual: 20:15 (15 mins)
Race: 20:30  20 mins

Race 2
Qual: 20:55 (5 mins)
Race: 21:00  20 mins

Cars allowed:
All Stock DTM Cars plus RS500 Sierra (See download link)
https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/1987-ford-sierra-cosworth-rs500.24027/ (https://www.racedepartment.com/downloads/1987-ford-sierra-cosworth-rs500.24027/)

unpack each of the rar files within the rar file! to your ac/content/cars folder. (I didn't bother with the drift one but that's up to you).

Alfa T155 = +35kg ballast
Mercedes E190 = +10kg Ballast
BMW = 0
Sierra = +25kg

Track: Nürburgring GP - the main GP track but with the slow chicane at lap end)

Live Timing: stracker.simracing.org.uk:50041/lapstat (http://stracker.simracing.org.uk:50041/lapstat)

Time of Day Setting: 16:00
Weather: Mid-clear
Start: Standing
Tyre wear: Normal
Fuel consumption: Normal
Pit-stops: Not required

Server track settings:
SESSION_START=100
RANDOMNESS=0
LAP_GAIN=0
SESSION_TRANSFER=N/a

Damage: 90%

PLP App - Not used in this series. Cutting will be monitored on replay and penalties issued for excessive cutting.

Notes:
(1) Please make sure you are fully aware of the UKGTR Rules (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=3349.0)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4237/35617343455_24ab0d3e30_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Wgocjx)[/quote]


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 25, 2018, 06:43:06 PM +0000
Please try as many or all of the cars as you can before the race so we can gain some valuable laptime info, thanks.  Sorry for the late(ish) race announcement but real life got in the way.

I was going to run this at Oschersleben but thought we have enough variables without introducing another for a test/fun race and these are just great at Nurburg GP anyway  8)


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: spanner on November 25, 2018, 07:36:08 PM +0000
There are 4 versions of the RS500. Whick specific versions are we using? DTM?


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 25, 2018, 07:53:21 PM +0000
There are 4 versions of the RS500. Whick specific versions are we using? DTM?

Uhm...I think so during a DTM event  ;D.

I have a feeling the RS500 will need Alfa amounts of ballast.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 25, 2018, 08:01:33 PM +0000
Stating the bleeding obvious  ;D yes DTM Sierra .

I didn’t feel the cossie had any advantage in my two test races (though could be my driving  :laugh:) but it wasn’t dominating the other Ai driven cars either. But that’s what this test is for. If we rapidly establish the Cossie is as quick as the Alfa we can ballast it up. I’d still rather use air restriction than ballast but no idea how to test that or apply it.  :-\


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 25, 2018, 08:15:10 PM +0000
I didn’t feel the cossie had any advantage in my two test races (though could be my driving  :laugh:) but it wasn’t dominating the other Ai driven cars either. But that’s what this test is for. If we rapidly establish the Cossie is as quick as the Alfa we can ballast it up. I’d still rather use air restriction than ballast but no idea how to test that or apply it.  :-\

If there is a server up tomorrow, I can put in some laps. I tried the Alfa with 90kg and it didn't feel bad or sluggish, I think you will only notice the weight when there is an equal car around without the weight.

To test it offline, create an offline championship and select "handicap" when you select the cars. There you can apply both restrictions.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: SRW on November 25, 2018, 09:49:05 PM +0000
definitely an RS500 for me. I was a big fan of them in the olden days. My first visit to a race track was to Silverstone to see the final round of the 1988 BTCC as a school boy (I was a big Andy Rouse fan)


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: picnic on November 26, 2018, 09:11:56 AM +0000
Practice server is up, cars should have correct ballast. Please shout if you spot anything wrong.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 26, 2018, 10:02:03 AM +0000
Thanks Pete  :)  will hopefully jump on tonight and give some of the cars a blast.  :)

Watching a grid of these cars on the replays looks pretty spectacular. They look quick too.  8)

Are we able to change cars for the second race or would that completely scramble everything on the server? Im not overly fussed about messing up the starting order for race 2, so wondered if we could jump out and back in another car in the gap between races?


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: picnic on November 26, 2018, 10:11:47 AM +0000
I think we'd need to run it as 2 separate events to allow people to change cars. I guess we can run a very short practice and qual for each. It doesn't make sense to me to reverse a grid and then race in a different car.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 26, 2018, 10:13:32 AM +0000
Can't join, says password not accepted, but normal PW doesn't work.

EDIT: It has the Mustang PW on it, luckily I still remembered that one  ;D


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 26, 2018, 10:19:32 AM +0000
Aaaand, it has the wrong BMW. The Group A is selected instead of the DTM version  :P

EDIT: Aaaand the wrong track version.

Hope you put your underwear on the right way before leaving the house  ;D


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 26, 2018, 10:50:36 AM +0000
Jeff, can you point Pete in the right direction for the Beemer DTM? is it listed under the grp A as a variant? Im at work so cant see it.
Also what is the correct name of the track config?  GP-GT sprint?


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 26, 2018, 11:22:47 AM +0000
Jeff, can you point Pete in the right direction for the Beemer DTM? is it listed under the grp A as a variant? Im at work so cant see it.
Also what is the correct name of the track config?  GP-GT sprint?

Correct, it's a Group A variant.

Track is Nurburgring - Sprint (GT).


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: picnic on November 26, 2018, 11:46:21 AM +0000
AC really doesn't make this easy  ::) Which car is the DTM one? Well it turns out it's the Grp.A 92 one. If you search touring, which was the suggestion I was given, it chucked out the one I picked. I'll never get the track right, live with it  :P

Hope you put your underwear on the right way before leaving the house  ;D
You're ok they don't let me out any more!

Track is Nurburgring - Sprint (GT).
Do you want the short track Mark? The Forthcoming shows GP  :-\ I thought I had selected the GT version of the GP circuit. Does the GT option swap depending if you're on the long or short track?


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: picnic on November 26, 2018, 11:52:00 AM +0000
Server relaunched with correct Beamer (hopefully), correct track (hopefully, although it is the GP version as stated in the Calendar entry and not the Sprint) and no password


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 26, 2018, 11:58:08 AM +0000
I thought I had selected the GT version of the GP circuit.

You did, but I think, judging from MJ's description, he wants the shorter layout, without the hairpin (from T4 to T11).


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 26, 2018, 01:04:04 PM +0000
Long track please, got some good corners in the full GP, like the Schumacher esses, plus outbraking opportunites at the hairpin before it   8)

Just to clarify the track config (as my first race post  ;) ) it says long GP with the fast chicane at the end  :)   where is nfsw when you need him? he always clarifies the right version of Nurby GP whilst we all guess at it  ;D


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 26, 2018, 01:13:38 PM +0000
Just to clarify the track config (as my first race post  ;) ) it says long GP with the fast chicane at the end  :)   where is nfsw when you need him? he always clarifies the right version of Nurby GP whilst we all guess at it  ;D

 "the layout that uses most of main GP track". How is that read as the full GP track? :P

Poor Pete, we should stick to single layout tracks  ;D


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: spanner on November 26, 2018, 01:39:34 PM +0000
And you wondered why i queried the car versions!


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 26, 2018, 02:29:40 PM +0000
Server is set to the tight chicane, which is IMO the better version for these cars. It gives an overtaking spot and feels less do-or-die than the other version. which is more suited to high downforce cars.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 26, 2018, 02:34:57 PM +0000
Just to clarify the track config (as my first race post  ;) ) it says long GP with the fast chicane at the end  :)   where is nfsw when you need him? he always clarifies the right version of Nurby GP whilst we all guess at it  ;D

 "the layout that uses most of main GP track". How is that read as the full GP track? :P

Poor Pete, we should stick to single layout tracks  ;D

it is the whole GP track but with the fast chicane at end.  But matters not, i'm just as happy with the dive-bomb tight chicane so leave it at that.  My bad as i didnt note the correct name of the layout when i was in the tracks earlier yesterday.  :-[  Flipping amateur  ;D

So after all that its just the stock GP layout  :laugh:


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: picnic on November 26, 2018, 03:27:55 PM +0000
Actually the game makes it hard as it fails to be consistent in naming things. If I'd actually looked at the folder structure the DTM E30 is obvious, it has DTM in the name. However in acServerManager it's called the Grp.A 92. Similarly the tracks have different names, we need layout_gp_a or layout_gp_b (which is GT?)


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 26, 2018, 04:28:16 PM +0000
Did a few laps and the results for me are pretty disappointing. With my laps, there seems to be 2 groups of cars which are fairly equal RS500/BMW and Alfa/Merc.

The Ford needs a bit of weight to be balanced to the BMW and the weight difference between the Alfa and the Merc needs to be a bit smaller. But how you are going to get those 2 groups together, I have no idea.

Hopefully more people will give it a go as this is just me  :P


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: FullMetalGasket on November 26, 2018, 05:40:04 PM +0000
Long track please, got some good corners in the full GP, like the Schumacher esses, plus outbraking opportunites at the hairpin before it   8)

Just to clarify the track config (as my first race post  ;) ) it says long GP with the fast chicane at the end  :)   where is nfsw when you need him? he always clarifies the right version of Nurby GP whilst we all guess at it  ;D

Going by the picture we should be on the Nordschliefe though :P

I'll try and drop on tonight to try some cars - I would imagine that'll be the 190e and the RS500.
On the subject of the 500 have you kept a backup of the version on the server - based on his current record the guy will have updated the bleeding thing twice by Wednesday, which will scupper late joiners ::)


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 26, 2018, 06:16:40 PM +0000
One more note on the RS500, it doesn't simulate gearbox damage, which will be a huge advantage as you can just ram it into gears and I struggle to finish 20 minutes with the others  ;D


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 26, 2018, 07:15:19 PM +0000
Think we need a few more times before making alterations plus you are a bit of an enigma Jeff  :P

If several others find similar we can either lump some kg in the Sierra or reduce it in the Alfa.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Stefan aka Postal on November 26, 2018, 09:26:55 PM +0000
So it seems the Merc and Alfa need a bit of air restriction also??..


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 26, 2018, 10:40:18 PM +0000
 Eh.? Nobody has set a time in the Alfa yet.(except Jeff and he's weird  ;D )  It's hard enough getting ballast right, would need a lot more testing or benchmarking to see what effect the air restrictor has.  :-\

I'm doing all my times on 30L fuel and meds to keep it consistent, not sure what others are doing? So far just using default setup though I did apply a couple of tweaks to my Sierra setup on its last couple of Laps.

I found the Merc difficult as it just wouldn't stop in time and I kept blowing my laps. Sure I can be quicker in all of them with more laps and setups.
Impressed with the Sierra mod, good quality all round.  :)

Will run more laps tomorrow eve. Keep pumping them in gents  :)


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 27, 2018, 08:31:45 AM +0000
 If people could share their fastest laptime setup, that would speed up the testing.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 27, 2018, 01:16:48 PM +0000
Sure i have asked this before, but where does it explain what effect the air restrictors do?  is it as simple as 10% reduces 10bhp or suchlike?

Tonight i will jump on the server and try out the 3 stock DTM cars a bit more to get some times up. Could do with some more drivers putting times in.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Baikal on November 27, 2018, 01:28:35 PM +0000
Sure i have asked this before, but where does it explain what effect the air restrictors do?  is it as simple as 10% reduces 10bhp or suchlike?

Tonight i will jump on the server and try out the 3 stock DTM cars a bit more to get some times up. Could do with some more drivers putting times in.
From server manual:
RESTRICTOR=0      ; from 0 to 100, cuts the car's engine power. 100=100% restrictor plate. It limits power in the top range of the power band, will not kill total power. Effective handicap depends on car and track, experimentation needed. Advantage over BALLAST is that it does not affect handling. 0=no restrictor plate, maintains original power.
 :)


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 27, 2018, 01:37:47 PM +0000
Percentage is not equal to bhp. It required lots of trial and error.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 27, 2018, 02:19:13 PM +0000
To test, i guess you just need one car on a track with a long straight (paul Ricard, Monza, Le Mans) and see what effect it has on the highest speed or better still, speed achievable in each gear.  :) 

To test the effect over a whole lap needs someone who can do consistent laptimes too, but really a single long straight from a standing start would tell you the effect each 10% makes to the car.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: FullMetalGasket on November 27, 2018, 02:42:02 PM +0000
I was on the server last night with some other drivers. I had the Merc and they were in the Fords.
Currently performance is believable - I destroyed them into and out of corners and off the line.
On the big straights the Merc already can't keep up with the extra power from the turbo lump in the Ford.
This is exactly how turbo Vs Na always plays out so I wouldn't look to artificially match acceleration/top speed as the chassis has a much bigger role in lap speed.
And if you look at Jeffreys times you'll note the Merc is slower than the Ford and Bimmer anyway.  :P


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 27, 2018, 02:51:28 PM +0000
To test, i guess you just need one car on a track with a long straight (paul Ricard, Monza, Le Mans) and see what effect it has on the highest speed or better still, speed achievable in each gear.  :) 

To test the effect over a whole lap needs someone who can do consistent laptimes too, but really a single long straight from a standing start would tell you the effect each 10% makes to the car.

There are drag strips in AC. The Alfa seems the slowest on the straights, which could make that car a nightmare in the race.

I'm going to try the Merc a bit more, as I didn't get on well with that car, but FMG showed it can go faster than what I achieved.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 27, 2018, 03:14:26 PM +0000
That'll be the extra 90kg the Alfa is lumping along i expect. Thats why i prefer the air restrictor route to a heavy ballast penalty.
Ballast will not only affect the cars dynamics it also means your tyres will wear out quicker than the other cars. (though not so much an issue for these 2x20 tests).


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 27, 2018, 03:30:55 PM +0000
Some 90's DTM car info:-  :)

http://touringcarracing.net/Pages/1990%20Cars.html (http://touringcarracing.net/Pages/1990%20Cars.html)

Apparently in RL, the Alfa came along to DTM after the Merc, BMW and RS500 and in its first season wiped the floor over Mercedes (which in turn had soundly beaten the BMWs in the years before). So now we know where the natural pecking order came from that Kunos adopted. :P


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 27, 2018, 04:24:15 PM +0000
Was able to improve my times on the Merc and Alfa, but they are still the slowest for me. Right now my suggested ballast would be:

RS500 atleast 50kg
Merc and BMW no ballast
Alfa, no ballast or a very small amount (20kg).

Also uploaded a setup for each car on stracker.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: KDiesel on November 27, 2018, 06:16:41 PM +0000
All cars have pros & cons and it's hard to make 'em totally equal for every track. These are my thougts from each car very shortly, Alfa: Best car from offline and good in slow corners, not so good in top speed, BMW: good all arounder, best brakes. Ford: best top speed, awfull @ brakes and slow corners. MB:  very stable, okeish every where ( not much exprience tho). Just leave cars alone and put different type tracks there...I´m affaraid that now car seems to be equal @ this track but not very equal in next ones.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 27, 2018, 08:30:48 PM +0000
after running more laps in 3 of the 4 cars I think I am going to make an adjustment based on all the times set so far.

The Alfa will have +30kg
The Merc +10kg
RS500 +25kg
BMW 0kg

I ran the Alfa offline straight after using our online fat version and I was 1 sec quicker straight away and about 14mph faster down the straights. So it still needs some ballast.
I tried a couple of drag races  Alfa v Merc and the Alfa won every time. Ran out of time to test anything else. Annoying the drag race option doesn't allow you to add ballast or air restriction in game.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 27, 2018, 08:31:47 PM +0000
Hi Pete,

if you spot this, could you change the ballast settings for the DTM server to these:-

The Alfa will have +30kg
The Merc +10kg
RS500 +25kg
BMW 0kg

ta   :)
MJ


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 27, 2018, 08:52:51 PM +0000
And please reset stracker on the Alfa, Ford and Merc ;).


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Baikal on November 27, 2018, 10:48:24 PM +0000
I feel like a boss when driving at Ford Sierra. Gimme one more  :punk:
Other (kunos) cars are like a  :hang: for me  ;)  ;D


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: picnic on November 28, 2018, 08:19:36 AM +0000
The Alfa will have +30kg
The Merc +10kg
RS500 +25kg
BMW 0kg
Now on the server.

And please reset stracker on the Alfa, Ford and Merc ;).
Done this too


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 28, 2018, 09:21:17 AM +0000
thanks Pete, will have to see how it affects things in the race tonight, but hopefully they all meet in the middle a little more now.

I'll prob take a BMW for one race and an RS500 for another.  Though if there is a horde of RS's i'll jump in an Alfa. Hope we have a decent mix  :)


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 28, 2018, 09:28:48 AM +0000
You da man Pete  ;)


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 28, 2018, 11:22:17 AM +0000
The Alfa and Ford seem balanced now, with the Merc losing 15 kg, it should be a few tenths faster as well. The BMW was already in the low 2:11's for me, so I think it looks pretty good right now.

I'll take the Alfa tonight, as it's the best looking car by far.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 28, 2018, 11:33:27 AM +0000
Sounds good, thanks for retesting Jeff  :)  glad my guess-timates worked out  ;D

Tonights slightly revised race program:-

Race 1
Practise: 19:30 (45 mins)
Qual: 20:15 (15 mins)
Race: 20:30  20 mins

Race 2
Qual: 20:55 (5 mins)
Race: 21:00  20 mins


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 28, 2018, 12:32:12 PM +0000
Oh no reversed grid. Does changing cars make it more of a hassle to get the results?


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 28, 2018, 12:44:00 PM +0000
yes changing cars screws up the results imports, which is why we are running two separate races so you can change cars for the 2nd race. Reverse grid can wait until the proper season starts. With only 5mins qually for the 2nd race you will have to nail a fast lap quite quickly anyway.

Does changing cars during the practise also screw results Pete? Assume not :-\ As i think a few may choose cars depending on what everyone else is in as i dont want a grid of Sierras !  :P


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: picnic on November 28, 2018, 12:54:23 PM +0000
yes changing cars screws up the results imports, which is why we are running two separate races so you can change cars for the 2nd race. Reverse grid can wait until the proper season starts. With only 5mins qually for the 2nd race you will have to nail a fast lap quite quickly anyway.
I will stop and restart the server after the 1st race to change the timings. 5 min of qual should give everyone a chance to rejoin and maybe get a lap in

Does changing cars during the practise also screw results Pete? Assume not :-\ As i think a few may choose cars depending on what everyone else is in as i dont want a grid of Sierras !  :P
I'm not sure what the import process will make of a double header where people drive a different car in each race. My guess is, as I won't be taking the starting positions from the previous race, the results will import OK. However people changing cars within each race does cause me headaches as I have to manually edit out the data for the car they didn't race in. It helps me if people know what they'll drive before each race and join just in that car and stick to it.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 28, 2018, 01:04:44 PM +0000
So changing cars between races is fine, but preferably not during the sessions?


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Baikal on November 28, 2018, 01:31:07 PM +0000
Mark's plans is possible only in 2 separate races with shutdown the server after 1st race, documenting results of it, then starts another server config with q and race session. Main thing here is the Pete's fast and correct work. Better to creat this config files before the events.
Collisions are possible when no free cars will available for wishing pilots in 2nd race. ( may be for 1st too). So, it better to inform admins what car will choice every pilot ( to make right amount of cars types in pilots entry list of server.
So, i am inform that it will be 2 races in Ford Sierra.  :) Easiest car to drive i ncompare to others.  :P


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Baikal on November 28, 2018, 01:41:20 PM +0000
So changing cars between races is fine, but preferably not during the sessions?
It will cause many problems. + need an online activiti of admin ( to be familiar with server commands fron game chat ) and we will need an extended grig track to fill all possible cars choice in 1 time launched server. Better to do 2 separate events.. And better to have 10 min second Q it this case. ( not all pilots will connect to server in 1 second after 2 nd event started. so 10 min of second q is more better to make 1 fast lap in q2.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 28, 2018, 02:06:15 PM +0000
yeah i think a 10min qual sesh for race 2 then as Pete needs to restart the server and people need to rejoin etc. It takes 2mins a lap too, so most will only get a warm up lap and 2-3 flying laps.

I dont think grid slots/car choices will be a problem as i doubt we will be stacked out with 20 racers  :'(  Just dont all pick the RS500 otherwise its a pointless test race!


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: picnic on November 28, 2018, 02:15:40 PM +0000
So changing cars between races is fine, but preferably not during the sessions?
Yup, we're effectively running 2 weekly events but only 5 mins apart ;)


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: FullMetalGasket on November 28, 2018, 02:41:36 PM +0000
I'll go Merc in one race.
And either ford or alfa in the other depending on what's on the server.

Not a massive fan of the beemer, although that should be a bigger reason to try and use it in a fun event....


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 29, 2018, 08:48:33 AM +0000
Well that was great fun last night, two very enjoyable races for different reasons  :)

Race 1 i was in the Beemer. Had a great early chase with Alexey in his Rs500 whilst Bob battled me. Unfortunately this 3 way battle allowed Jeff and FMG to scamper off in the distance in their Alfas. Bob eventually ran wide and a couple of laps later i got a tank slapper mid fast corner when harrassing Alexey. I had to wait for the whole field to go by before rejoining  :'( but then i had great fun re-catching the pack and fighting my way past about 5-6 cars until i caught Spanner in 5th. I chased him for a few laps and thought id made a good move down the inside at the hairpin. But as i got half way around it the back end stepped out and had an oversteer spin, dropping back a few cars again...d'oh!  But enjoyed it all the same.  :)

Race 2 i took the RS500 and qualied 3rd or 4th.
I could immediately tell it wasnt quite so sprightly with the added ballast. I was fortunate that there was a bit of a pile up behind me on lap 1 so i could stretch a gap whilst chasing Bob ahead. FMG and Jeff pulled away once again. I had a long chase of Bob who drove really well whilst Shark did one of his race long stalkings of me, always in my mirrors steadily closing!  :boat:
Sadly Bob fell off and i was third for almost the whole race but my nemesis shark reeled me in despite me setting some new pb's in the Cosworth. Then with 2-3 laps to go my rear tyres gave up the fight and i had no traction out of the final corner particularly and the rear was sliding about in most of the quick corners, which stopped me getting the cosworth power down. Shark got by and nicked my hard fought 3rd place  :taz:
But good race again  :)

I thought the ballast worked well in evening out the cars. I think i might add 5kg to the Alfa and -5kg to the RS500. But basically i just need to add ballast to Jeff and FMG  ;D the rest of us might catch them up!  :P


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: FullMetalGasket on November 29, 2018, 11:18:46 AM +0000
I agree 100% with the Alfa needing more ballast.
But am not so sure about changing the Ford. If you look at Jeffreys times you'll see he had half a second over his times in the German contingent.
You also went half a second faster in the Ford Vs the beemer during the races.

Have we got any toys that can plot lap speed over the race? Given the different rates of tire wear I think that's what we need to look at before altering the Ford .

As for the races I really enjoyed them, in race one I finished going slightly quicker than Jeff as he was trying hard to nurse his gearbox, although I also think I may have had a tiny bit of tire life over him as I could catch mid corner a bit towards the end.

Race 2 was epic, I distracted myself just after jeff passed bob, which gave him an easy time closing the gap and then eventually made an unforced error (again) which allowed him past - but not before we had first had some monumental door to door action first  ;D

Really looking forward to a series in these!


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 29, 2018, 12:05:41 PM +0000
i would still like to test them again with air restrictors rather than ballast. Maybe the way to do it is give a weeks notice to a race and steadily increase or decrease the air restrictor each day and note the difference to laptimes.  Otherwise if someone has some spare day or night time can they test the cars in an offline championship trying the same car each time with more or less air restrictor.  Could be a xmas break job!
The Alfa is still a bit too strong. Nobody got within 2 seconds of you two in laptimes in race 1.

To be fair i was only using cobbled together on the night setups so might be able to improve laptimes with more seat time in each car but was too busy trying them all prior. :P

But agree, a series would be great in them as some of the racing i had last night was fab and the cars can bite even when your peddling well, adding an element of chance to the racing/results.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Jeffrey on November 29, 2018, 12:39:24 PM +0000
Had 2 fun races.

Race 1 started with a miss shift right after the start, which gave me a yellow gearbox and a drop of position to FMG. He kindly returned the favour later on by going wide before the back straight. Had no nurture the car to the finish as my gearbox was getting quite orange and I didn't want to break it in the last corner of the last lap, like I did with the 962 at the Ostereichring.



As for the races I really enjoyed them, in race one I finished going slightly quicker than Jeff as he was trying hard to nurse his gearbox, although I also think I may have had a tiny bit of tire life over him as I could catch mid corner a bit towards the end.

You were always quicker in the first sector, I think you were using a shorter gearing. I didn't like that one, as it resulted in too many unnecessary shifts. Tyre wear wasn't an issue, only the Schumacher Esses were a bit harder, but rest seemed pretty fine. Laptimes were a bit slower, but balance of the car didn't really change. What really slowed me down at the end was the management of the gearbox. I sometimes left it in gear just to save a shift  :P.


At the start of race 2 I noticed my BMW setup had a very long first gear, and I bogged down at the start. Bob made a good move at turn 1 which dropped me to 3rd. He defended well so I had to overtake at an unexpected spot, so I set up the car at the hairpin for a good exit towards the Esses and was able to get by through there.
Had to chase FMG who was on equal pace but some oversteering moments from him made me close the gap. Had our usual epic side by side action, which looks great in the replay. The Beamer's gearbox seemed stronger than the Alfa's, which sounds historically very accurate  ;D.

I agree 100% with the Alfa needing more ballast.
But am not so sure about changing the Ford. If you look at Jeffreys times you'll see he had half a second over his times in the German contingent.
You also went half a second faster in the Ford Vs the beemer during the races.

Alfa and Ford seem balanced so I wouldn't change the weight too much between them. Maybe add 10 to the Alfa and 5 to Ford, or 10 to both. The Ford is better on the tyres and doesn't simulate gearbox damage, which is a HUGE benefit for the likes of me  :P.
The BMW and Merc also seemed equal to each other, but slightly slower than the other 2, hence the added weight. Maybe the Merc can lose 5kg, but I haven't tested that one enough.

i would still like to test them again with air restrictors rather than ballast. Maybe the way to do it is give a weeks notice to a race and steadily increase or decrease the air restrictor each day and note the difference to laptimes.  Otherwise if someone has some spare day or night time can they test the cars in an offline championship trying the same car each time with more or less air restrictor.  Could be a xmas break job!

Whem time comes I can try that, but I have no idea how restrictor influences the laptime. With weight, 100kg is around 1 second loss every minute, so at Nurburging, it's a bit over 2 seconds loss with so much weight. From there you can guestimate what you roughly need. I don't know if the air restrictor is also quite linear, if so, I can test without it and with maximum and then extrapolate what you might need.

The Alfa is still a bit too strong. Nobody got within 2 seconds of you two in laptimes in race 1.
Agree the Alfa is a bit too strong, but comparing times between different drivers is, IMO, irrelevant. During race 2 I was only 0,4s slower in the BMW and that was because I was still trying to adept to that car, having not driven it for a few days. By the time I got used to it, the tyres were too far gone, but often I was 0,3s faster during the first sector. So they are already quite close.

To be fair i was only using cobbled together on the night setups so might be able to improve laptimes with more seat time in each car but was too busy trying them all prior. :P
And here I am uploading ready to go setups for diddly-squat   :P

What I liked about these cars over the TCR, is that they are more prone to errors, so it's really not over yet until the flag drops.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Bob on November 29, 2018, 04:15:16 PM +0000
I totally enjoyed the races last night even with all the huge mistakes and tyres that gave up half race. Is this a one off or will there be more DTM. Thanks to all.


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Mark J on November 29, 2018, 08:55:33 PM +0000
Glad you enjoyed it Bob, you had good pace. This was a test race so we can run a season of them sometime in the near future  :)


Title: Re: UKAC - Nürburgring 1990's DTM - Fun race - Nov 28
Post by: Stefan aka Postal on November 29, 2018, 10:13:50 PM +0000
couple of laps from heat 2

https://youtu.be/zhEy5bWjEJ8 (https://youtu.be/zhEy5bWjEJ8)