SimRacing.org.uk

UKGTL Ladder - "GTC 65 Mid-Range" at Zolder

This is the first race of the new rolling ranking aka 'the Ladder'. All members welcome.

Date: Thursday 22nd June

Practice: 20:30 (15 mins)
Qualifying: 20:45 (20 mins)
Race: 21:05 (20 laps = ~40 mins)

Cars allowed: GTC-65: Cobras, TVR, Elan, Corvette, Shelby Daytona Coupé; GTC-TC-76: Porsche 914
Time of day: 12:00 (midday)

Server: UKGTL Ladder
Password: See this post (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1665.0)

Notes:
(1) It's best if all drivers can make sure they are connected before the Qualifying session as drivers on track during qualifying will not see cars that join after they are on track until they go back to the garage.
(2) Please make sure you are fully aware of the SimRacing.org.uk Rules (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?pid=7). Note in particular that we will be using the new pit lane speed limiter starting procedure.
(3) General information on the ladder can be found on the series home page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&group=25).

It will be at Zolder and cars allowed will be mostly GTC-65: Cobras, TVR, Elan, Corvette, Shelby Daytona Coupé. From the 76 cars we will allow the Porsche 914 to see how it compares to the '65ers.

A proper announcement will be posted as soon as we've nailed the new starting procedure down.

 :thumbup1: Gives me a chance to do a few practise laps, haven't played GTL for a while.

 :( Crap! a half hour earlier start and I could have probably made this one  :'( I suppose any chance of moving the times in future is a no-no?

Personally it would suit me to move the times up slightly, but we've found in the past that trying to start earlier results in a lot more people not being able to join as it clashes with evening meals and putting kids to bed.

If we were to start 30 minutes earlier is there anyone planning to race who couldn't make it as a result?

(I did get your PM but wasn't going to reply until after publishing this announcement.)

Yep.

Oh is that a simple cut and paste error or are we really racing at Le Mans ?

Please don't move the start earlier.

I've corrected Gizmo's typo.  :P :P :P

Sweet Zolder :clap:. But I'm not sure about the 914 ???. It will beat a Elan, and in the long run quite possibly the big muscles due to tyres. Will have to do some test laps to know for sure.

I think 40 mins is about 20 laps at about 1:52 pace with a formation lap of about 2:30 so have adjusted the original post as such.

The relative performance between 65 and 76 cars is a "known unknown (http://www.slate.com/id/2081042/)" - that's why I want to introduce one here so we have a point of comparison.

It's a good idea, the more competitive the cars are, the better. Like I said, I'll do some laps and post it so there is some sort of benchmark.

Elan or 914 for me, all the others handle like poop.

Did some quick laps with all the cars:

AC Cobra           1:48.764
TVR                  1:50.062
Elan                  1:51.171
Corvette           1:50.743
Shelby              1:50.129
Porsche 914      1:48.005

The ease of the 914, together with the 5 gears, low tyre wear and fuel usage, it will most definatly be the ideal car for this track.

As you can see I can't handle the Elan, I'm better in every muscle car. As long as it has more power than grip, I'm happy. ;D

Looks about right, other than your pitiful Elan time.  ;) ;) ;) :angel:

Remember the faster cars score less points in the ladder, so just cause you do better on the track doesn't mean you do better in the ladder...
https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&group=25&scoring=38#ch38

How does that score ladder work?

It's explained in the rules, and the car ratings are published under the Scoring link on the standings, but basically don't worry about it. :P :D

:( Seems as though I'm in the minority then, and due to it being on a Thursday and at the set times, I'll only be able to drive 1 in 3 races, absolutely gutted, I'm not going to really feature at all in the ladder, like I said gutted. :death:

Hopefully make this one - not sure if i could race if the start times were brought forward really.

Tha later the better for me...

Amazing times there Ruskus, can't get anywhere near 'em :D

I'm looking forward to this, Zolder is a nice track.

Yeah, No idea how he gets those times. I'm 4 seconds off those.


Can't say I'm a fan, the track needs a bit more width, it feels like a rally course rather than a proper circuit.

What a waste of time.

Constant track reloads.
Disconnection.
Only 2 laps in qualifying.
Dissapearing cars.
Cut track warnings for genuine driving mistakes and running off track and losing time.
2 stop go penalites.

Guessing my car caused some confusion at the start. Sorry, but everyone dissapeared just before the final chicane and I got hit before that (i'm guessing my car dissapeared and you didn't know I was there). People weren't on the rev limiter yet and I had no idea where you were so I sort of went slowish down the left side of the track and then people appeared again and I had somehow moved up to 7th from 12th-ish So i dropped back on the left as we passed the line down to 12th not wanting to have gained any advantage wondering if I was about to be disco'd, but no it carried on. Wasn't sure people could actually see me during the race at the start, but soon realised they could. I was getting P23 on my board yet was in P12. All very wierd.

Ya it was me who hit you :o, you were ghosting all race

I figured once the massive dissapearing act had been and gone and I knew people could see me that I was ok, but obviously my car was a bit dodgy. Sorry about that, if I'd know it was warping/ghosting that badly I would have disconnected.

Internet in my area obviously not happy today i guess.

Yeah, Shark, isn't SIMBIN wonderful!??!  I want to write them a letter of complaint explaining how GTL users have been abandoned and how I cannot justify spending money on GTR2 until they FIX GTL!!  I paid full price for an unfinished game with big problems that they gave up on.  Very disappointing.

I was behind you a few times in the race when you lagged; surprizing, but didn't take me out or anything.  Then one time I caught up to you at the chicane -- not sure if you had a problem, but I was on normal pace -- and then locked my rears before I hit you, but no damage.

My board showed you in the correct pos'n, but I've seen that bug before.  If your client misses an update at race start then the displayed position can be totally hosed for the whole race.  Really sucks.

Sorry for the (semi-)OT rant, lol!

     -=> J <=-

Good race for me. Took the 914 as it gave me the best chance of finishing, easy car to drive. Was suprised to find myself 3rd on the grid, although I had a quicker car than a lot of drivers. Pero & Ruskus were in a different class to me and quickly pulled away, while I steadily pulled away from the rest of the pack. Without any traffic to worry about I was able to lap very consistatly in the low 1:51s. Bit of a lonely race, but dead chuffed to bring it home in 3rd after some poor recent races. :)

The start on the limiter worked very well. Will be interesting to see how my 3rd place in the 914 translates into ranking points on the ladder.

Sorry to hear about the problems Shark.  :(

Before this race I did a quick practice lap and managed a 48. So I was pleasantly sursprised to do a 1:46.8 in qually, which is a WC looking at GTLrank :clap:

From my point of view the pace lap was good, the field was close at the end. Dunno if I should of, but I just typed limiter on when I did, so nobody would be caught by surprise (when and where).

As expected I had some good tussles with Peter again. After a few laps I made a small mistake at the first chicane and he overtook me. After that it was impossible to overtake him back. Getting close was one thing, overtaking the next.
There were lot's of new guys in this race, which is very good. But sometimes gave a bit of unexpected situations. Also the start from Assasino was amazing ;D, an Elan out accelerating a Cobra...lol ;D

My tyres were completely fried at the end of the race. They were already gone in lap 9, but the last 3 laps were awefull. I spun in lap 19 and trying to do a 180 with a burnout was impossible because of the lack of grip. Trying to drive in a straight line was a duty on it's own.

Good race.

P.S. Anybody have some FTP space for me to host videos on :-*?

Blimey! are the developers of GTL. Simbin had nothing to do with it, they are just the name on the box.

To be fair, it's a pretty good game, but there are some also some glaring bugs. The corner cutting code is just abysmal and really spoiling things from time to time. The rest, well the internet is the internet, no game can cope really. It does a pretty good job on the whole and when most people in a race are ok, enjoying it and having fun that's the main thing.


Well done on the podiums Teamies!!!

Strange sort of race for me, both good fun and enormously frustrating at the same time.

Couldn't find a comfortable setup for the hairy-chested TVR during practice and qually; mostly okay under power but unpredictable under braking. Made a last moment setup tweak just before the race, breaking one of my own golden rules :hammer: but it worked and the car was much better in the race.

Once again we had people chatting merrily away in qualifying. >:( Stop it! :nono:

I'll have to watch the start again - I ended up putting the limiter on with quite a bit gap to the car ahead because it wasn't at all clear whether he had put his on or not. Was also surprised to see the person in front not "go go go" until actually reaching the start line but maybe it just did take that long for the wave of 'goingness' to propagate down the snake.

The race was a bit odd really. With the improved setup the TVR was fairly consistent and very, very quick in a straight line, and I could fend off the advances of the slower Elan drivers but not really make any impression on them. Made one big mistake trying to pass a 914 and slid off at T1, a couple of half spins, and was never in any danger of climbing up the order, but was having quite good fun powersliding (and on occaision full-on drifting) the beast. With about 3 to go I missed my braking point for the Gilles Villeneuve chicane, and after that the tyres were shot.

Replay (http://ukgtl.simracing.org.uk/Zolder%20-%20Ladder%20060622.zip) available but I'm struggling to import the results.

Can Phill Kerins please let me have your forum nickname.

So, how is it once again cars were racing ahead and slamming on brakes on the formation lap??  I thought we were passed that.  <sigh>

I got tapped around at the end of the formation lap, just as I went for my rev limiter.  It's really VERY important to keep up with the guys in front of you so people don't get distracted trying to keep up.  <sigh>

Locutos, sorry for the doofy braking and tap on Lap 1; something crashed down in my apartment and I totally messed up that whole section.  Sorry!

Bill ... <sigh>

At least I finished higher than I started!!  :)

     -=> J <=-

It is a pity we can't at least simply turn it off like we could in GPL. :-\

Make sure you report these things properly using the new form on the results page (once we get it up).

Provisional Results (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&event=167) now available  :)

Thanks Picnic.

Good win by Pero in the Cobra (I'm not brave enough to take one in a race  ;) ), and good to see my team-m8 on the podium. Lots of points for Team Shark.  ;D

lol....

Let us know when so I don't miss it and wait too long!

     -=> J <=-

BTW, in case someone is wondering why I slowed down after I left the grid, my position number went to 10 for some reason, then back to 11, then 10, then 11 -- but Minton (#10) was well ahead of me.  Another of those wonderful Blimey! features, I guess.  Sorry for any confusion.

     -=> J <=-

 :'( sigh another fine race missed  :( , time to find some public servers I think.

As suspected, I was miles off the pace but I had a great race with Don for nearly the whole race with only 1-2 sec between us the whole way.

The new starting procedure seemed to work well but the pace lap seemed pretty uneven from my point of view at the back of the pack. I think that's just one of those things though. After the limiters went on though, the start was very smooth so a thumbs up there from me.

My first race in GTL for yonks and it showed.
Enjoyed it alot tho. Had a some great racing with Gizmo, Baz West, T Cooper, and M Coop.
Then slide off mid race at T1 and got a puncture. Had to go in the pits for new tyre and that put me a lap down.
Excellent fun tho.
BTW I was the 914 in front of you at the start Gizmo. I assumed I couldn't start racing until I had crossed the start line ala Nascar, also didn't have my limiter config to a wheel button so just went really slow instead behind the car in front until I had croosed the line.

Can't believe the times the leaders were doing, how is that possible! :( :(

Mixed race for me totally screwed up by the stupid corner cutting code and stop n go penalty right at the end of the race.

Was very happy to qually 4th in the 914 with a 1:50, it was the first time i have driven it too which made it sweeter. 8)
Race started well, hats off to the pit limiter scheme, it worked very well up front. 8)
Kept position in 4th with a few seconds gap over a squabbling trio of elans behind me and Bernie Lomax's 914 a couple of secs in front. All well for about 7 laps, then wierdly the car just broke away from me in a corner where i had never had any dramas before and i dropped a couple of places. Tried charging down the guys in front but followed someone elses accident into turn 1 and had big off into gravel trap....lost 15 seconds and rejoined about 9th/10th. Stayed there the whole race closing to a 1-2 secs behind guy in front with 2 laps to go and seriously faded tyres.
Then cos i had the sheer audacity ::) of running slightly wide over the kerbs under braking i got a sodding stop n go penalty and had to pit. Did my penalty and the AI turned off the bastard pit limiter so i got an instant stop and go for speeding in pitlane ! >:(
It was the last lap of race so couldnt re-pit for penalty !  So despite crossing the line in a miserly 12th place, the game then seemed to drop me a few places in the results. :cursing: :censored:

Shame, felt like i had a good race taken away from me by the games faults. :'(  Yet again, you would think they (Simbin) would release a bloody patch to fix the game. Dont they listen to any customer feedback like most game-sim companies ???

Hmmm poor race for me after a formation lap incident that resulted in the car spinning every time i touched the brakes.
Formation lap observations, firstly, pole sitter PLEASE DO NOT ANNOUNCE WHEN YOU ARE APPLY YOUR LIMITER!!

The effect that this had at the rear of the grid was that instead of closing the pack up nearly everybody applied theirs straight away, therefore resulting in the same gaps being there at the rear and not any additional speed to close up  ???

I think the system will work, but people must only apply the limiter WHEN they have caught the car infront.

That's not my fault people apply it too early, they should read the rules and apply it when they got close to the guy infront. I did it to prevent people from rearending others because they didn't know thet applied the limiter.

Not but it's like shouting STOP at a line of people, nearly everyone will immediately irrespective of proximity to the next person

Not to put too fine a point on it, you asked me the rules just before the race started! :P

Sometimes I don't know why I bother. ::) :taz: :wetfish: :surrender: :lol:

Is there a results file yet so I can make a lapchart?

Yup, I asked when the limiter should be applied. But some people might not look in chat, or have in car chat off. Plus the fact that there were many new guys, so it doesn't hurt to tell when the limiter is on. That I said limiter on was NOT the reason for large gaps in the field, that has been a fact ever since the rolling starts.

Oh well, there are always people trying to find a excuse for losing.

https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=1689.msg26485#msg26485 is your friend I believe  ;)

Oh cheers, I missed that one, thought it was only the replay :-*

UNOFFICIAL LAPCHART (http://www.lapcharts.teamshark.org.uk/Lapcharts/Zolder%20Lapchart%20GTC65.htm)

Aagramn - fixed link.

Thanks Ruskus.

For what??? When you replied the lapchart wasn't working yet ;D

I have faith.  ;)

I thought the pit-limiter reminder was a good idea personally. Everybody further down should know that they dont need to activate it until the designated corner. Its a good idea that the pole sitter notifies everyone to avoid people being rear-ended.

As it showed on the 3-2-1 countdown when someone shot past me rather than cruising for the formation lap, it proves not everybody reads the rules  ::)

I thought the start worked very well under the 'limiter' rules.

I thought the same.

It's a shame GTL doesn't have a warmup session so we could remind people of the start procedure.

As my car was doing funny things so didn't really get to assess it properly from my mid-field starting position, one thing that might be an issue is...

Did all the guys at the back get their limiter on before Ruskus had crossed the line? I think the whole field needs to be on the limiter before anyone crosses the line, which means we might want to bring the limiter on earlier than the last corner in future to make sure the whole field has had time to get near the guy in front and stick his limiter on.

We don't want people getting into a mad scramble to get near the guy in front to get the limiter on only to find the field ahead is already going going going cause the leader has started. Everyone needs a few moments of calm under the limiter before the start gets underway.

I put the limiter on half way down the back straight. I thought that would have been early enough, but next time (if I get pole ever again), I'll put it down earlier. From my point of view I saw the grid close together so I thought it went well, but further down the grid it was a problem.

That's what I enjoy most about the community these days, such constructive comments when we're having a serious discussion

I'm not saying that's necessary as I couldn't tell with my ghosting car what was going on. Just a thought that the guys at the back should have a few moments on the limiter to settle down before getting going. If it was ok then that's great. The bigger the field the earlier it needs to come on I guess.

I was right near the back and other than a bit of dithering ahead there was plenty of time for me to form up.

 :thumbup2: :thumbup2:

I think the main problem was the confusion after I smacked into the back of Shark's car. I went scrambling to catch up, and there was a massive gap left behind me.

Ah ok I guess it as you I owed that apology to, was hard to tell with his ghosting :-\ I figured it was shark since he was green as well and qualified between us.