SimRacing.org.uk

UKGPL => UKGPL Races => Topic started by: Billy Nobrakes on July 15, 2020, 09:56:33 PM +0100



Title: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Billy Nobrakes on July 15, 2020, 09:56:33 PM +0100
Season 37 MIXED OPEN WHEEL – Round 2 –  Mexico City  

It’s the second round of the Mixed Open Wheel series in which we will be using cars from 1965, 1966, 1967 (F2) & the newly released 1968 mod. Drivers entering this series must select a manufacturer group & keep to that group for the whole season. Where more than one chassis is allocated to the group you can select any car. Pro / Works standard drivers cannot use Group 8 or Group 9.

Round 2 will use the 2 litre engined cars from 1966. The track is Mexico City, a Papyrus original.

Server = UKGPL_4
IP = 77.102.28.179
Race date = Tuesday 21 July 2020
Time = starts no later than 21.00 UK time.
Track =  Mexico
Race length = 25 Laps (50 minutes)
Variant = 1966 – 2 Litre
60fps patch used 60fpsV2newmod
Damage Model = Intermediate
Qualifying time = 30-45 minutes
Replay = here (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-4lQH9bZ_g-Ngsxa6V4VnnLO4S5R1aIu/view?usp=sharing)

The championship will run with Intermediate damage model. Pro / Works drivers are not permitted to take any resets. Amateur / Privateer drivers are permitted one reset. Each reset (irrespective of fault) must be followed by a Stop & Go in the pit lane within two laps of the incident. If a reset is required on the last lap a time penalty will be added. Failure to take a Stop & Go will result in a time penalty. Any driver taking a more than one Reset will be disqualified.
This season, races are to be run at 60 frames per second – please use the 60 fps patch

Full Driver lists and divisional rules including manufacturer groups can be found here Championship Standings page  (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=1132&theme=6)

DRIVER ALLOCATIONS
Alain Maurice – Pro – Group 1 (Eagle)
Alessandro Issachini – Pro – Group 2 – (McLaren)
AnGex – Pro – Group 7 (Ferrari)
Bagrupp – Pro – Group 7 (Ferrari)
Billy NoBrakes – Am – Group 8 (Brabham)
Dave Curtis – Ams – Group 9 (Lotus)
EvilClive – Pro – Group 6 (Honda)
Fpolicardi – Pro – Group 4 (Cooper)
Francesco – Ams – Group 7 (Ferrari)
Magic Arsouille – Pro – Group 7 (Ferrari)
PaulV – Ams – Group 7 (Ferrari)
Phil Thornton – Ams – Group 5 (Matra)
Rainier – Ams – Group 8 (Brabham)
Raoni Frizz – Pro – Group 5 (Matra)
Ziu Bacubacu – Pro – Group 7 (Ferrari)
Cookie – Pro – Group 6 (Honda)
Doni Yourth – Pro – Group 3 (BRM)
Uli – Pro – Group 6 (Honda)
Gareth – Pro - TBA
Daniel San - TBA

There is no Red Zone. Moderating will be on reported incidents only. Remember that lap 1 incidents carry an additional penalty place.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Rainier on July 20, 2020, 09:46:20 AM +0100
Tristan, Ziu and Francesco said they are Group7 (Ferrari)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Billy Nobrakes on July 20, 2020, 09:56:02 AM +0100
Tristan, Ziu and Francesco said they are Group7 (Ferrari)
Thanks David - nor sure why that information was missed? Maybe I copied an older post.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Alessandro Isacchini on July 20, 2020, 05:59:44 PM +0100
Guess track limit is grass, not white lines, right?
Always same problem here in Mexico  :laugh:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Phil Thornton on July 20, 2020, 10:03:14 PM +0100
Guess track limit is grass, not white lines, right?
Always same problem here in Mexico  :laugh:
Yes the white lines are the track boundary.

The definition of what is meant by keeping within the track boundary is on this page (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/etiquette) (bullet point 11 under the General section). Just in case anyone cannot find it, it states:

Riding the kerbs is permitted but there must always be at least two wheels within the track boundary at any one time. If three or four wheels have been placed outside the track boundary then a driver is deemed to have left the track and will subsequently have to perform a rejoin with the necessary caution this dictates.

  • If you have knowingly overdone the kerb riding or left the track for any other reason in qualifying, please abort the lap in order to not post an illegal lap time.

Which at Mexico essentially means "Keep off the grass" and "Keep off the white tyres"


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Cookie on July 20, 2020, 10:21:17 PM +0100
IMO the tyre polos are compulsory!

(https://i.ibb.co/NpqDFXN/Bildschirmfoto-2020-07-20-23-44-04.png) (https://ibb.co/K7g45Ys)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: EvilClive on July 20, 2020, 11:00:33 PM +0100
I agree with Axel.
The polos are part of the Mexico track and IMHO are NOT optional. With the polos in place the question about grass is irrelevant  :-\


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Phil Thornton on July 20, 2020, 11:54:56 PM +0100
A misunderstanding. I was referring to the corners without tyres when I said stay off the grass. I took it for granted that nobody would try to "ride the polos". I can't see how hitting the polos could be quicker. I'll amend my post to avoid any confusion.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: EvilClive on July 21, 2020, 10:57:11 AM +0100
Maybe I also misunderstood.
I thought that it was being suggested that the polos could be removed ( turned off), just like the pit wall at Kyalami? This would obviously offer an advantage to any individual who was driving "sans polos".


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Alessandro Isacchini on July 21, 2020, 11:28:35 AM +0100
Guys, my question is not for the poles or not, sure impossible to cross there and I'm not favorable to remove them. But there is other turns in the circuit where there is just white lines before the grass and no poles, or in the straight is possible accross the line without problem



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Phil Thornton on July 21, 2020, 12:31:45 PM +0100
Guys, my question is......there is other turns in the circuit where there is just white lines before the grass.....
This is the question I was trying to answer (sorry my post has caused some confusion). On the corners where there are no polos, it is permissible to cross the white lines but two wheels must remain within the white lines at all times. If a driver is touching the grass then they are quite likely to have all 4 wheels outside the track boundary (the tarmac outside the white lines is very wide).

The alternative would be to say the grass marks the track boundary, in which case at the S-bend at T3 and T4  the drivers  could cut the corners by putting 2 wheels on the grass. This would turn the GP into an Rallycross race which would be inappropriate IMO.

Similarly, on the straight a driver should keep at least 2 wheels inside the white lines.

I hope this clarifies the situation for everyone.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: EvilClive on July 21, 2020, 12:54:47 PM +0100
yup!!  ;D

Just as an aside. I notice that UKGPL 11 is up as a practice server for tonight's race. But, it has been configured to only allow some cars?? It would appear that Hondas are not welcome??  :-\

oops! another mistake from me .....2 litre cars only for tonight   :stupid:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Phil Thornton on July 21, 2020, 01:00:08 PM +0100
Tonight is a 2L race. So Honda drivers should select the BT11 2.7L.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Alessandro Isacchini on July 21, 2020, 02:39:31 PM +0100
Guys, my question is......there is other turns in the circuit where there is just white lines before the grass.....
This is the question I was trying to answer (sorry my post has caused some confusion). On the corners where there are no polos, it is permissible to cross the white lines but two wheels must remain within the white lines at all times. If a driver is touching the grass then they are quite likely to have all 4 wheels outside the track boundary (the tarmac outside the white lines is very wide).


That was my question
Thanks Phil for clarification  :)


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Phil Thornton on July 21, 2020, 11:28:08 PM +0100
A good race for me. I got a decent start and kept out of trouble on the first lap. I tried to stay with Fulvio and Alain but they were too quick. Not by much but enough for them to pull away slowly over several laps and once I had lost the draft they were gone. I settled down and tried to be consistent. I'm finding it much easier to avoid locking up the brakes now I've fitted a Load Cell to my brake pedal. If I brake a bit to hard it is possible to ease off the pressure and allow the tyres to grip again. On previous trips to this track I've found T1 very tough and I've invariably crashed into the armco when I've been too ambitious on the brakes, but not today!

I saw Evil catching me on Prib in the closing stages so I pushed hard to stay ahead of him but it was to no avail, he caught and passed me easily. After that I had a momentary lapse in concentration and I spun twice; then all of a sudden Anreas and David Rainier were all over my gearbox. I thought I'd be a sitting duck on the long straight but I just did enough to hold onto my place over the last 3 laps.

Grats to my new Antipasti team mate Uli on a fine win, it was a very close finish. Commiserations to my old team mate Axel. Hope you have better luck next time!


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Alessandro Isacchini on July 22, 2020, 08:02:21 AM +0100
Gained 1 position at the start but after 2 laps Hoffman overtaken me and then no possible for me to compete with leaders, too much quickly, so my race is focused on the Policardi distance for some laps, until I had enough advantage
Lotus Climax maybe is not the best car but his setup is not bad in this track, i have just adjusted gears and differential, not easy to run in safe mode with this malefic polos  :laugh:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Alessandro Isacchini on July 22, 2020, 08:21:30 AM +0100
@Billy and moderators

As expected many drivers have overstepped the white lines, for this reason I had asked for this
I know we all are here for fun and this is not work of course  :), but the fun sure would be better if we all are in the same conditions, because drivers that pay attention at track limit were few.. specially in practice, most drivers did the best lap with many times crossed the lines, and not only best lap but in all their times

Unfortunately Mexico always has this problem (in other sims also) and every time there's a race here the problem is the same
If I can make a suggestion for future, the best way IS NOT CONSIDER the white lines at all, as it was in real, because in a single lap is possible to cross the lines 9/10 times


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: EvilClive on July 22, 2020, 08:54:02 AM +0100
After a nudge at T1 that sent me into the barriers, and a complete comedy of errors with Billy as we both tried to get our cars facing the right way and back onto the tarmac, we were both a looooong way adrift at the back of the field. The only plus point was that I still had 25 laps to try and catch up  :-\.

It was a long chase and there were times when I wondered if I would ever catch another car!! 6th place was probably the best that I could have achieved from that miserable start.

I was aware of the "white lines" issue and during qually ( and also during the race ) I tried laps where I kept 2 wheels inside the lines, and other laps where I took the fastest route and cut the corners. I reckoned that the time gained was worth up to 3 secs a lap if I really maxed out the corner cutting, but still stayed off the grass.

There were some laps where I exceeded the white lines even when trying to be "good", simply because I ran too deep into corners or tried to catch a slide. There is no doubt that by far the fastest way around here is to exceed the white lines, much as F1 does today with the kerbs etc.

Whatever the arguments for, or against, the nominal track limits, I think that it would be an impossible task to monitor all cars for all laps and to penalise those who crossed the lines. Turning on the "track limits" would probably result in zero finishers as it is so easy here to go a little too deep, or because you have compromised your line by a poor entry into the first corner of a complex you are running too tight, or too wide, for the next corner.
Maybe if there are enough people interested we could run a fun race with the track limits active....that would be quite illuminating  ::)



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: AnGex on July 22, 2020, 09:51:45 AM +0100
... After that I had a momentary lapse in concentration and I spun twice; then all of a sudden Andreas and David Rainier were all over my gearbox. I thought I'd be a sitting duck on the long straight but I just did enough to hold onto my place over the last 3 laps.


I tried hard to get you there, but you were concentrated and fast enough to maintain your position. Congratulations on that.
Also congratulations to the podium and all the Finishers.  :thumbup1:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Cookie on July 22, 2020, 10:00:35 AM +0100
As GPL tries to be as historic correct as possible I vote for driving as they did in 1965-66-67-68-69

1965
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzLjhuyH-XM
1968
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umJ4AbCfhd4

I was totally confused in quali and never had a clean lap... so I threw it away in first lap and left frustrated.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Doni Yourth on July 22, 2020, 03:07:53 PM +0100
I suppose that it was supreme folly to endeavour to obey the 'white line' rule but a rule is a rule is a rule.  I knew perfectly well that the vast majority of runners would ignore it even to the point of taking to the grass to improve lap times.  Tsk, tsk...  Based on performances pre-race where the rule wasn't even in force compared to my race day run where I did my level best to obey the rule, I was capable of lap times fully two seconds per lap faster.

Try as I might to avoid going over the white line with more than two wheels, I scored some laps over the line.  One in qualifying...my Lap04...and seven instances in the race.  Yes, I did review my entire race with an eye to evaluating my run.  None of my steps over the line were of a nature to improve performance.  All were due to errors of placement.  My main fault lay in negotiating the right-hander finishing the esses section where I logged the majority of my white line faults.

IMO, it was a rule that was impossible to police let alone enforce with penalties.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Alain Maurice on July 22, 2020, 03:26:05 PM +0100
Hi all  :)


I will also control my entire race because I respected as much as possible (except for a trajectory error) the racing instructions which I recall in passing was to keep 2 wheels inside the track marked by the WHITE lines and suddenly penalized my speed.
A regulation is made to be applied, if not it is useless.
Would you agree that I am in group 1, that I choose a group 9 car for example ?  :o

It takes away the interest in the race.  :-\


I ask to be declared WINNER of this race  ;D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Alessandro Isacchini on July 22, 2020, 04:39:40 PM +0100

I ask to be declared WINNER of this race  ;D

HA HA right!
Alain, I saw some drivers in qualifing (replay) and you and me are the drivers (but sure somebody else) that not cross the lines specially in the best lap, impossible to see all race but many have gone beyond
So it's OK, pole position is mine and second place in race behind you  :lol: :lol:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Phil Thornton on July 22, 2020, 06:28:38 PM +0100
Thanks for the well mannered and polite discussions on this contentious issue.

The debate about the track boundary goes back a long way but the existing rule (bullet point 11 under the General section on this page (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/etiquette)) has its origins in the post race debate about an incident at 0h02m39s in this race (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=10592#event3040) on 27/03/2012. Basically two cars were fighting for position. One car left the track and on re-joining contact was made. Hence a definition a definition of what constitutes leaving the track (and hence the track boundary) had to be made.

We have also had numerous debates about corner cutting and driving outside the track limits which is a problem at some tracks (e.g. Dijon-Prenois 7/12/2010 (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=8711.30)) and we have some penalty guidelines (https://www.ukgpl.com/index.php/rules/railriding) which try to address this issue.

We are here to have fun and so we don't want to be over burdened by too many rules but equally the races are no fun if they are a free for all and there are no guidelines or racing etiquette to follow.

I don't want to have different rules for different tracks, we have enough rules. However the rules need to be interpreted in the context of the track we are driving. Perhaps at Mexico I should have said the track boundary is the edge of the tarmac and allow drivers to have a couple of wheels on the grass on the corners where there are no polos? However it is too late now but hopefully OK for next time.

I hope everyone enjoyed the race (with the possible exception of Cookie, very sorry about that). Please continue to raise any issues like this in future races, it is only by having a sensible debate can we ensure the racing is fun, fair and enjoyable for everyone.


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Alain Maurice on July 23, 2020, 11:18:44 AM +0100
Thanks Alessandro

 :jumpjoy: :clap: :jumpjoy: :clap:

Hello Phill

Thank you for taking our remarks into account but don't worry, it's already very nice to organize the races for all of us.
My race was very interesting because there was a big challenge for me with respect to my car supplier, The EAGLE CAR COMPANIE :)

After my deco of the first round, I had to ride well.
I had a good fight with 2 Brabhams, I still have the heat of their engines on my face when they overtake me. :)


Finishing 5th is a good result for me, thank you all and see you soon.

Grats to the podium



Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Rainier on July 23, 2020, 12:37:24 PM +0100
After my decoration of the first round ...


Decoration ?
Légion d'honneur ?  :D


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Alain Maurice on July 23, 2020, 02:59:26 PM +0100
After my decoration of the first round ...


Decoration ?
Légion d'honneur ?  :D

 :D


After my disconnection from the first race

Sry Dave, translation no good  :P


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: bernie on August 01, 2020, 05:18:11 PM +0100
As GPL tries to be as historic correct as possible I vote for driving as they did in 1965-66-67-68-69

1965
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzLjhuyH-XM
1968
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umJ4AbCfhd4

I was totally confused in quali and never had a clean lap... so I threw it away in first lap and left frustrated.


Sideways Gurney in the McLaren 68 race  :punk:


Title: Re: UKGPL Season 37 (2020) Mixed Open Wheel - Mexico City - Jul 21
Post by: Billy Nobrakes on September 23, 2020, 10:19:44 PM +0100
Mod report published.