SimRacing.org.uk

I suspect there's a few people who have a bit more intimate knowledge of this but it sounds like things are progressing :)

Sounds like someone's been on an arse kicking rampage to me ;)

But, good news is good news. Now, let's hope they deliver on it.

This is, there was never any real problem with the netcode, not in compirsson to GTR and it was pretty much rF good, which has only recently become something that just works. I get also worried when developers talk about documentation in releases particularly when it's "needed to use netKar pro". Surely effort should go into making sure documentation _is_not_needed_.

Anyway if buts are solved I'll be happy, actually I'm not unhappy currently with the product, it just needs a bit of love :)

Is the patch out yet?
Is the patch out yet?
Is the patch out yet?


I heard there'd be an 'announcement' today.. :)


Is the patch out yet? :P

Interesting NK news-

http://www.autosimsport.net/

Too subtle for me, can't find anything about NK there  :-\

In ASS (as it were) Picnic. No patch news but BRD and NK partnership sounds positive, however neither has a great track record of meeting deadlines  ;)

SBGs dream has come true, a minor new patch released...
http://www.netkar-pro.com/

I've just installed it myself, so might go do some testing in a bit.

Right, that should put a stop to all this GTR2 nonsense   :P

This patch may be considered "minor" but it does make online racing fantastically smooth now (as it should have been from start). More sexy things are planned for next update which will hopefully arrive soon. Its getting there  :)

Edam, love to see you racing at GPC.

Cant wait to get home and download this, and Bullrun for rFactor, and my Alfa Romeo series race, and practice in my Lambo at Valencia.

Hope my son has recovered or I am in trouble tonight, too little time.

Really hope this patch stuffs it up all those who have moaned recently about the delay and lack of info.

Have they made it any more friendly?

No, the physics have changed slightly and the multiplayer has been tidied up but the gui remains the same. Why? Do you want to buy your licence back? ;)

You see unfriendly but I see functional and, I'm told, realism. Each to their own  :angel: .

Yes, reality can be quite unfriendly too.  ;)

Doesn't sound like it's improved in the ways I was looking for. Thanks for the info.

I'm not a fan of clicking a button with the mouse on the car, i think using a button on my wheel is more realistic. I love the idea of a persistant car, and always have, so I'm happy with that. More importantly has the server lobby thing working properly yet? If they got the MP sorted (as claimed) it'd be great for league, but I haven't managed to get a race for a month so when I do it'll be with known quality groups/people (to me) [SROU or GRC]

I had a go last night. Joined a DrivingItalia server for a 10 lap race with about 14 people on it. Of course, most of them dropped out after 1 lap or maybe 3.

Seems a little more stable now since the patch. Things like syncing are quicker, but I still have this gnawing feeling of incompleteness with that game.

I'd love to be as 'at home' with it as I was with Namie. My god I loved that game - endless nights with "The 2200 Club" from RSC, hosted on my 2nd PC at home. It was great - the racing was close, there were no network problems, and the cars behaved as you expected and gave great feedback.

'Hikki' is nowhere near as enjoyable for me. Aside from the network problems (most fixed now, I hope), I can't get used to any car - they just seem 'disconnected' from me. Everyone talks about how good the cars feel, and the physics, etc., but I just don't get it - sorry :( I particularly have trouble with braking - I just can't work out when I'm locking up, and I just cannot get the tracks sorted. That may be just the tracks, perhaps. Perhaps it's the cars too. Never been a fan of single seaters.

I notice the same feelings as above coming from a lot of the Namie players. The ones that seem really happy with Hikki are the people who never raced in Namie. I guess there's a problem with expectations there, or something we're used to.. Maybe it's because we're seeing the same dumb things in Hikki that were present in Namie, and should have been fixed years ago. Little things. Things like, why the hell doesn't the "-" key work in replays to change drivers, when the "+" key does? That was on the cards to be fixed before Namie was released, ffs!

Hikki is still disappointing to me. It feels flat and lifeless. People say that this is because I've never had a good race online, but to be honest I've tried. Ok, I haven't joined a league like GPC, but I don't want to, because a) I can't commit the time, particularly at weekends, and b) I think *I* would be crap. In most of the online races I've done, I've trawled around at the back, because I'm not as fast as the others, or I can't get the set up right, or I forget which way the track goes. I'm forever looking at my mirrors, and can't work out where the other drivers are, so I end up just giving places away. That turns the whole online session into just another hotlapping exercise, and I can't be arsed with that.

Because Hikki contains many of the same bugs as Namie, the same sound effects, same menus, and the same difficulty with the 'lobby' and joining servers, it just feels like Namie with better graphics. And it's taken them *this* long to get better graphics in there and fix multiplayer. I'm not confident of Kunos adding more features or fixing historical bugs anytime before 2008, and I've just got better things to do with my life.

I admire Kunos for striving for realism, and I have to admit that the grip of the cars does feel right, but sometimes it's not enough. Realism is one thing, but when it gets in the way of enjoyment, you just have to wonder why you bother. Realism should be part of a package, not just the only thing. People talk about immersion, and it's a very hard thing to define, but I don't feel 'immersed' in NK Pro. Perhaps it's the menus and interface, it doesn't really feel 'complete' - I'm not in any sort of environment where I feel I have the tools laid out to do my job. The UI doesn't provide much feedback, and looks like it was designed by several different people with different agendas. Hard to feel immersed when you get kicked out to an empty Windows screen after doing a multiplayer race.

Oh, and "immersion" is nothing to do with clicking buttons in your cockpit with a mouse. That's not immersion - that's just an encumberance!

I mean, you could have a racing game where your car starts off in your garage at home. You have to press a few keys and wiggle your mouse to get it loaded on the trailer, strap it down, and then load up the car/van with all your tools and spares. Then you wait 2 hours while the thing drives along the motorway to Brands Hatch, stopping for coffee at Hilton Park and Warwick services. Then when you get there you realise you left your helmet or licence at home. Or you need to change your gearbox in a puddle of freezing water at the bottom of the outer paddock. Then the race comes and you get maybe 1 corner or 1 lap into it, get punted off, and have to wait another 2 hours while you drive home along the motorway with a busted car feeling miserable.

How do those extra hurdles improve your racing experience? They don't. Sure, it would be more 'real', and perhaps more immersive, but that's not the point.

Yes, there should be buttons to press to start your engine, ignition, AIM thingie, and all that, but you should be able to do it from the keyboard. Having to move a mouse around is just wierd and tedious.

Oops. That turned into a bit of a rambling rant, didn't it? Well, that's how I feel. I'm not a noob at Netkar, I've been playing it since the very early days of a badly handling MG ZS at Croft. I loved Namie, and was one of the first to pre-order nkPro. I'm by no means giving up after a few minutes of trying - i've been trying on and off to "get into it" for months now, with not much success.

I'll still keep NK Pro and my licence, and perhaps I'll race it every now and again, but at the moment it just doesn't hold any enjoyment for me. Perhaps that will change with new cars and tracks, we'll see. I'm not holding my breath for new patches, features or additional content though - they'll happen if/when they happen.

Good sensible read mate well done.

Just not had time to try this out but will hopefully get upto speed with it soon, I like it but obviously it has its shortcomings.

Each to their own would be nice but does not happen often.

Great post Edam. Pretty much how I felt about it. Then GTR2 came along and removed any of the time I had left to race nKPro and the decision was easy as I wasn't enjoying it at all.

Interesting stuff Edam  :). You don't feel immersed, or that the physics are great, and I respect your opinion. Thats entirely fair and well argued.

However I don't agree with you here



Your not the first, and you won't be the last  ;), to complain about starting the engine but really is it that much of a chore? Is it really much different than pressing "drive" button? (Perhaps we should have a NK vs GTR2 start you engine race). People would have you believe that its more of a chore than the weekly shoppin but really come on. As for the rest of the racing weekend bit, I don't see how that applies. It does however make me jealous, I would give my right arm to experience some of the real stuff.

i still keep swimming up to look at the bait....but not quite seen enough to take the bite yet  :(

Hehe Ginsters. I have to admire you for your continued love of nKPro. :) I'm also slightly jealous of that too - I would love to see past Pro's foibles to the game beneath - see the diamond in the rough, but I'm afraid it ain't happening.

We'll have to disagree on many points I'm afraid. I understand why you like the game so much, and I hope you'll understand my 'disappointment' - I think that's the correct word. It's not that I don't like it, but I don't love it either, it currently holds no interest for me. I'm obviously not going to change your opinion of it, and that's not what I'm trying to do - I guess I'm just trying to express in words why I feel the way I feel.

I'm a patient man, so I cannot be accused of not trying, or giving in too easily. As I said in an earlier post, I was one of the pioneers of the Namie 2200 club. Back then, the nk lobby was permanently broken, the server was a DOS app, all the settings were guesswork as there was very little documentation (actually that's still the case), and you had to manually open ports on your router, even if you were just playing, not hosting. Those were the days of perseverence! But we felt it was well worth it, as the game, and the online experience were second to none. Once you were connected to a server, barring a few minor glitches, the net code was pretty good. Somewhere buried on RSC are a few old replays and videos of Namie in action, and viewing them today makes me remember all the good times we had.

So surely, 3 years later Hikki should be a much better experience? It isn't for me.

Just from my own experiences with the new patch and looking at RSC, there are still terrible multiplayer bugs. Join lag, warping, spinning on the grid, and going into orbit with random suspension failures after light contact. The last one noticably has been around since Namie - the person doing the hitting *always* came off much worse, and that's why the racing was so good, as people did everything in their power to avoid hitting someone else.

For me, the will to persevere with these problems and play on is waning. Again, perhaps it's the cars and tracks. I never got on with the spindly single seaters in Namie, and I don't get on with them in Pro. I don't know how to set them up, I can't drive them properly, and they don't "speak" to me. I'm a tin topper, not a spindle-driver ;) Perhaps also it's the feeling that it's been *OVER 6 MONTHS* since Hikki was released, and still multiplayer, the very bedrock of the game, still has some serious issues, and runs worse than Namie..

I'm going to add to what I said earlier about the UI. It's terrible. Once your in a server there's no way of loading / saving setups, which is a real problem in multi. You can't go back to the main program screen either, or you'll be basically quitting - and if the server's disabled joining during qualifying, you're screwed.. Things like seat adjustment and FOV are part of the car's 'misc' setup which is just plain wierd, as they're loaded and saved (and lost) with the setups. The in-game menus look like an afterthought. The control set up screen is a nightmare! "paddle up" / "stick up"? Huh? Only stick up seems to shift gears. Sometimes keys bind, sometimes they don't. Sometimes you get functions mapped to more than one key/button.. Alt-tab doesn't work.

That sort of thing was ok when Namie was a privateer project and new, 3 years ago. Nowadays, it's bordering on criminal. A lot of the UI problems stem back to the very early days of nk in 2002. They still haven't been fixed. Some have been made worse.

Little things like that I could live with, if there weren't so many of them, and I had confidence that they would be fixed soon, but as I say, many been with the project since birth. Perhaps that would be fine too, if I hadn't paid money for the damn thing.

This was the 'fix' list for the new 1.0.2 patch:

- Multiplayer sync improvements
- Physics updates on tires, drivetrain and aerodynamics
- Interface polishing
- Added support links

Ok, so 4 is basically flim-flam. Doesn't add anything.
Number 3 - "Interface polishing" - where? You mean the new BRD logos?
Number 1 - multiplayer sync improvements. Ok, well it does seem to sync better now, but really - 6 months, and a whole load of beta testers - why are there still multiplayer bugs? Why was the Namie multi-code better?
Number 2 - Physics updates on tires. Again, this is supposely a 'fix', but they've actually broken it! The FF1800's tyres are way too forgiving now, even more so than GTR2. Check out the video at http://www.deathnet.org/temp/lol.avi - I've never seen such ridiculous angles from a FFord.

By comparison, this was the fix list for netKar PRO v1.0.1 - which was released about two weeks after the main 1.00 was released:

- New licencing scheme
- Performance tuning in multiplayer
- CrossFaded sound engine option added
- Fixed slow race server list
- Fixed crash when watching a remote car that is out of range for every track's camera.
- Fixed "remove" in Host, Sessions
- Added "move up" and "move down" buttons in Host, Sessions
- Fixed server getting confused after long uptime in Windows.
- Fixed heavy CPU load with car at zero speed
- Fixed skin support in multiplayer
- Fixed crash when hitting "Load" in setup screen without any setup selected
- Removed "save as" button in setup screen
- Fixed connection problems for users behind a router and multiport servers
- Fixed TimeMonitor during Qualify and Practice showing remaining time
- Fixed TimeMonitor during Race showing "lap completed/race laps"
- "Go To Grid" button is now visible with TimeMonitor up
- "Go To Grid" button blinks in green to catch more attention
- "Go To Grid" button is not visible once the race is started
- Interfaces forced to "single car" multiplayer races
- Added "server contacted/received" readout in Multiplayer
- Added colour codes to server list
- Added sort option to server list
- "Join" button is not available for servers "closed" to new clients
- Added flags and nationality for Slovenia, Slovakia, Thailand, Vietnam, Ucraina, Estonia, Croatia, Belarus and Latvia
- Fixed car "exploding" when trying to change setup with a broken suspension.
- Fixed ForceFeedback and Exponential Factor in controllers setting
- Fixed "Norway" spelling
- Changes in nationality are now immediatly reflected in the main driver bar
- Fixed shutdown for some ForceFeeback wheels (Momo Black)
- Fixed track flickering with shaders off
- Fixed "blue" tires with shaders off
- Fixed 6th gears not following ingame setup changes
- Fixed white and checked flags appearing in qualify
- Added "escape" to unassign button and axis in controllers
- Fixed sound option window not remembering "invert" settings
- Fixed pitboard during Qualify showing position
- Key controls are now using CTRL for downshifts and SPACE for upshifts
- Added "pitboard view" using TAB key
- Fixed FTarget autoclutch settings in 1st gear
- Fixed "holes" in Newbury and Crema
- Fixed crash with nVidia MX cards
- Fixed hand and steer movement for remote cars
- Fixed servers randomly disappearing from server list

Bit of a bigger list huh?  That was 2 week's work. And yet the latest patch fixes very very little, and yet we've waited 6 months for it. Ok, I know Kunos has had some personal problems, and I have some sympathy for that, but it doesn't inspire me with much confidence for future improvements.


Phew - I went off on one again. Sorry..

Again, Ginsters I hope you'll understand that although it looks like this was directed at you, it isn't. I'm just trying to convey my feelings about all this. Not trying to convert people into anti-Nk or whatever. I'd dearly like for nkPro to be better than Namie - a step up. At the moment it's a step down. And that frustrates me far more than clicking something with a mouse to start the car ;D

Incidentally, it's not the pressing of those buttons that's annoying - it's the fact that you have to do it with the mouse. That's not any more realistic than pressing buttons on a keyboard, but it is more cumbersome. It's certainly not immersive either - quite the opposite, as I have to consciously grab the mouse. I don't do that in my real car!

And finally, the stuff about the guff I have to go through to get my real car to a real track - the purpose of me posting that was just to demonstrate that putting obstacles in the way of driving in the guise of "realism" doesn't make the sim-experience more rewarding or enjoyable. Locating 3 buttons in a virtual environment (where one may be hidden), pointing the mouse, and then clicking and holding the mouse button down - that's no more 'realistic' than pressing 3 buttons on a keyboard, but it is certainly more annoying when you just want to get out there.

Hehe Edam  :). We disagree but we clearly share the same passion for this stuff (although your knowledge puts me to shame).

Perhaps, I wouldn't have the same views if i was lucky enough to experience Namie as well? Anyways will read your eloquent post more fully when I'm not to busy trying to race NK, as I'm doing tonight   ;).

Any further thoughts on the patch guys? I haven't downloaded it yet as I've been caught up with the start of the GTR2 season.

I got further than you Pops, I downloaded it but that's been as far as I've got.

As far as I can see, patch most importantly makes racing smoother and eliminates, for me anyways, GTG bug. Nothing to really drag people in, but does improve experience for those already hooked.

Thanks SBG, hopefully I'll give it a bash soon :)

Crikey, its a bit quiet in here :). Those of you that still have NK, god bless you, do yourself a favour and get yourself the 2001 Spa which is now available to all. I feel myself slipping back to NK land.

Just to let you know that you're not entirely alone in NK land Ian ;D  I haven't played it for a while but if you're joining any races I'll give it a go too.
I still haven't had a chance to try Spa but will try this week.......

I still have it installed,but I've only been playing the F1 79 mod for rfactor the last couple of weeks  8)   Might give it a go on Spa though  :)

I also have NKpro but have not touched it for ages.

Might have a look at the patch but have a lot on so not on top of my list at the moment.

Did enjoy it when I ran but needed significant improvement in online, has it got that?

I've been playing a bit recently, as I've not raced in ages (thus not safe online) and it's just a pleasure to experience the physics again. I'm loving Spa in a 1800 though I'm frustrated by me being unable to setup AIM or my car too well (mo's ancient setup from ages ago was a good start though). I'm def looking forward to that hill climb though and I'm seriously hoping 1.03 sorts it out quite a bit.

Hi guys,

been a long time posting something on the forum. Been running a couple of GTR races with a some of you.

Moved over to rFactor and Netkar. Enjoyed rFactor for a while and since a couple of months enjoying Netkar at its best.

Not many has been changed since version 1.02 came which improved multiplayer experience (compared to 1.01).

The Netkar developers are working hard on version 1.03 as well as new track(s) and a new car.

I'm racing in the FF1800 class at GPC. Season 2007.1 with three races to go on some exciting tracks.

Dijon GP
Zandvoort
Monza

The last seven races went all together very smooth. Between 10-15 players online each event.
Each event consists of two races. One sprint race and a feature race. Pre-qualifying events during 4-5 days where people gather to set their fastest times  in order to make the grid.

Nobody is obliged to take part in the races but everybody can take part in prequalifying.

I'm really enjoying these FF1800 cars.

The sad thing about it is that there is lack of online servers and people. Despite that it is attracting new people anyway. Many give up cause there is nobody to race with.

GPC gives a good alternative for this.

Before last event was at silverstone and it was one of the best races I ever had. The feeling in this sim is amazing.

Last sunday we raced at Prato Short. Beautiful high speed track, lots of incidents(drivers loosing control of their car and get back on track) a couple of accidents but mainly very fun to drive.

Replay of Race1 (unedited) : http://dev1.badongo.com/file/3223687 (http://dev1.badongo.com/file/3223687)

Grid at Race2:

(http://users.telenet.be/nintendogames/tiny.png)

Cheers for the update Glide - I'm thinking of racing 2007.2 over at GPC although I have to admit I haven't driven a lap of NK since before Christmas.
One of these days I'm going to re-install it a feel what real FF is like again ;)

Is the competition at GPC still at the extra terrestrial level?

Quite a ground swell of NK support ;). Keep the faith.

Pretty sure I'll make a return to GPC as well, Jaap generally does a great job and there aren't any other choices for racing with the servers being dead. Although Saturday night races are really, really awkward. Just a shame that progress is still so painfully slow with all things NK, that hill climb addition should be good when it finally arrives.

Drivers are going really fast in the cars this sim offers in both FR2000 as FF1800 class.

Result of the feature race for FR2000 at Prato Full GP:Feature race FR200 (http://www.gpchampionship.com/gpcos/results.php?eventid=1211&leagueid=5&menu=season&menuoption=2)

Times are close together, top five are very fast during races.



About the FF1800 there is 2 strong Slovenian guys ruling the championship. Newcomers are getting in regularly.

Everbody's going for the finish-line during that goddamn feature race. Lots of incidents each race with these FF1800's. Most of the time only half (and less) of the grid actually finishes the race and gets points.

These incdents mostly happing during qualifying and sprint races. Everybody's nervous and keen on getting the closest to the front of grid.

FF1800 needs a couple more drivers to get a full grid  ;)

Some impressions of last race:

(http://users.telenet.be/nintendogames/prato4.png)

Leader during first lap the grid is getting in position and first impressions of setup are positive.
Another 20 laps to go.
(http://users.telenet.be/nintendogames/prato3.png)

lap 2 (http://users.telenet.be/nintendogames/prato1.png)

Entry in turn 3 (http://users.telenet.be/nintendogames/prato6.png)

Cold tyres, remain in position (http://users.telenet.be/nintendogames/prato5.png)

I just found out on the official FAQ they have instructions for setting up AIM :-)

Might be tempted to try it again with the patches - only to boost Slovenian drivers.  ;)

TT

Thanks for the update Glide, that's really helpful.

Add me to the "must revist nK when I get some time" list :angel:

Have I gone completely insane? Have they put LSD in the water here?

I was just trawling through RSC and decided to have a look at the nkPro forum for a giggle and I see beta testers claiming the fabled 1.0.3 patch is still in development (after 2 ferking years!) and actually due to be released soon?  :o

It can't be true? Can it? :blink:

Your idea of 'soon' and Kunos's may vary slightly  ;)

Is April late this year  ::)

LMAO, but now that I look at the pics above all I can say is those cars look crisp and clear. Kerbs and road surface look great. I'd forgotten how good NK looked. Pity about the net code and the 3 year update cycle  ::)

I remember doing some of that 1.03 testing and I haven't touched NK for about 12 months  :'( It will be an iR killer when its working. Keep the faith :)

I'm off to cancel my subscription now!

nkPro will never take off until they implement some sort of SR system  ::)

Apparently its getting closer :

http://forum.racesimcentral.com/showthread.php?t=328596

..... since the last update governments have come and gone, they've landed probes on Mars and even built the biggest particle accelerator in the world..... but fear not the NK patch is almost ready  :laugh:

Seriously though, if this works and fixes what they say it fixes then I'll be back on board for sure.

Interesting :) iR hasn't captured me in the way NK did, in fact its nowhere near. When/if this patch arrives hopefully it can draw me back in again as I'm still desperately seeking the single seater experience.   

Woohoo! there's two of us now  :laugh: :laugh:

I knew I wasn't alone, cheers Ian!

nK is superb in some ways, but it's like a girl with a wonderful personality...

http://www.virtualr.net/netkar-pro-new-community-update/

Looks like its getting closer and closer to the relase of the patch and they have decided to allow the demo to be used online so hopefully it gives people a second chance to play it.

Tis now out, complete with a demo I've not tried :)  http://www.netkar-pro.com/download.htm Sadly, no mention of a SR system Piccers.

Yep, your right Ginsters - hell has indeed frozen over and pigs are flying past the windows.... but, yes the patch is out  ;D

I should be able to give it a blast over thje next few days, might see you out there :)

Gave it a go last night. Not bad, encountered one or two wreckers online, as we might have expected. Did manage one or two clean races. The physics don't do anything special for me, in the f1600's only of course, don't know what the other cars are like. Not the feel of GPL or iRacing. Is it a game feature that bodywork and suspension can be repaired in the pits but not engines?

Glad to see the servers are reasonably full with people trying out the demo and the racing isn't too bad. This patch has definitely improved network stability.

Not the feel of iR ??? Pffft, each to their own ;) I would say that the F2000 is the best car but if you don't like the 1600 it really isn't that different. Although the Abarth thats coming look brilliant :-*

Well I didn't say I didn't like it, just it didn't feel any better than the sims mentioned. Maybe I need to play with the FF settings. It's all about familiarity too, I mean the tyre screech sounded really high pitch, which may be accurate, I don't know, but not what I'm used to so took a bit of getting used to.

I was getting some opponents cars showing as plain box polys only. Is that a limitation in my connection or cpu?

Blue box thingy is explained in manual thus-

In the chat window, you will see a message that someone has connected, but the 3D
model and the textures for the car are not loaded. Instead, the new car will be added
as a simple transparent box with bright blue borders. This requires minimal loading
time (therefore not disrupting your lap). The blue box will look like this:

Like the cardboard car thing in RF the last time I installed it. True enough it doesn't really feel like iR (no bad thing :)) but the 1600, especially, feel like the slippery GPL cars to me.

Got to say that its better than I remember it. Had much fun already. After 2 years its finally near what it should have been but at least it feels free to us gents who stumped up an age ago. Bet Shark is gutted now ;)

Good to see you on track again Ian :)

Patch looks good, they've certainly solved the show stoppers wrt join lag and warping. I raced VERY close to cars last night without any issues. Contact and damage modelas are good also (Oops!). NK is still the only sim that gives me that wind through the hair feeling.... so to speak.

There's still a few rubbishy things going on though, like AA not working for me from the game, and the 'new' sounds which are fairly grim tbh. I resolved both last night, but why did I have to?

btw how many servers are you seeing in the lobby? I'm only seeing 4 or 5 servers at a time with the message "Contacted 5/120 servers" ....bit confused by that one too....

Keep pressing "refresh" button Mo and more magically appear (don't ask me  :laugh:). This is not just a private chat by the way, I beat the cwap outta Edam tonight ;) He seemed to enjoy it? Be nice to see a few more UKGTR's giving it a go before dismissing it  :angel:

I might try the demo tomorrow. I assume from the website that you don't have to pay a subscription? ???

I gave it a go, but wasn't that impressed. I guess it's horses for courses.

Er, excuuuuuse me? Who beat you and won the first race? ;D

Last night was the first time nk Pro actually worked properly for me. Now I realise what was going on in the previous versions - the 'latency' for want of a better word was just too much to actually drive the cars.

For instance, with 1.0.2 and previous, actually even shifting gears in the 1600 and 1800 was hit-and-miss for me. Last night was the first time when I could do it right and it would actually work (still messed a few up tho ;) ). It's not quite the same as a REAL Formula Ford though, and I rather wish it was - in a real car, you apply pressure to the gear stick, then either tap the clutch pedal to remove drive from the dog gears, or you back off the throttle for a moment, which does the same thing. Then the 'box just 'snicks' into the next gear. It's a lovely feeling when you do it right. Most dog boxes are the same.

What I'd love to see in nkPro is a control method where you could hold down the shifter/paddle/whatever, then just ease off the throttle to get the next gear. It doesn't work like that though - I did try - you need to back off, click the shifter/paddle, then make sure it engages before flooring the throttle again. Note that this is with the auto clutch - I'm sure it's probably easier with a real shifter, but some of us haven't got around to that level of sophistication yet ;)

Anyway, I digress. A lot of the problem for me I reckon was framerates. The control system is dependant on the frame rate, as Stefano has rather foolishly coded the controler poller into the main display loop, so the controller is only polled when the screen is refreshed. Obviously that means if you suffer from low frames, you'll quickly lose control of the car. It's actually pretty much the same in Simbin's titles I think, but somehow seems to be much more obvious in nK.

I also think that there's more 'lag' or latency in the controller than in Simbin's titles. Hard to put my finger on it, but when trying to recover a slide, there's a perceivable lag in response from the car. Stefano's been mentioning controller/USB lag on RSC recently, and I'm wondering if this is something that's been made worse by the reintroduction of flat spots... This is where Ginsters and Mo(?) perhaps have an advantage over me, because IIRC they use non-FF wheels.

Anyway, I suck at single seaters. I'm still longing for the day that nkPro gets a tin-top. Doesn't matter what. Had great fun with Namie (Nk 0.99) and the Ferarri, but last night came pretty close to re-creating that actually! Really smooth framerates, good net code, close racing, and a track like Aviano, with it's flowing curves and unexpected bumps really reminds me of the old racing at Newbury/Crystal Palace/Lime Rock. Apart from the slight lag, the feedback from the wheel is pretty good, and gives a really good sensation of the bumps.

The other problem I had with 1.0.2 and before is that the default setup was just pathetic, particularly with the lower-end formula cars (nosedive city under braking!). 1.0.3 sees a much better default set, provided by Jaap Wagenvoort, which is really nice, and is an absolute must for numpties like me who can't set up a car (or don't want to, or haven't got time to). Shame about some settings like FOV, seat position STILL being part of the loadable set up, but at least you can now load/save set up from the actual game, rather than the bloody Windows interface.

Speaking of FOV, what do others use? I found the default of 60 just too narrow for my tastes. I found I could see corners better with FOV set to at least 70 ( I can see my own tyres then!), and seat height at +0.020 (or some odd figure like that)

So yeah, I think I'll be playing it more in future, now that the net code is fixed, and some of the more intolerable bugs have been removed. Still a long way to go though, and I hope the next patch doesn't take another 2 years, but you may see me online from time to time.

I can see the 1600/1800 being the weapon of choice online now. Not just because that's the only car you get in the demo, but because it's easy-going, predictable, nice-and-slideable, and slow enough that you don't get into too much trouble. Still pretty damn hard to keep it on the track sometimes though! But over a race, it rewards smooth consistent driving, rather than banzai laps. I like it more than the slicks/wings cars already!

That is one of the difficulties I'm having. I always like to use a FOV setting of around 50 deg or even lower if possible. I find this gives a more realistic view of the track and I'm better able to judge distances. As mentioned though it is always a good idea to be able to see your own wheels, or at least a small part of them, so this is normally the compromise I have. In most games this still allows settings of 50-55 to be used but in this sim i've ended up at 62 deg with the seat then as far back as it will go so that I see some of the front wheels. Of course a nice three monitor setup would solve all these problems!! :)

I've totally lost my way with this. I was doing 1:06's at Newbury in my very first sessions, although I still felt very slow and unfamiliar with this game. Since then I've tinkered with FF and I'm only getting slower, 1:08's if I'm lucky. In desperation I loaded the base settings again but I'm even worse, 1:10's, 1:11's!!

I think I'm going to leave it for a while.