SimRacing.org.uk

(https://i.postimg.cc/2SKG5TVg/R3-Spa.png)

Welcome to round 3 of the Porsche RSR Challenge - This weeks race is a special 1Hr event as opposed to the normal 30 minute sprint races.

This season is loosely based on our first outing in these cars several years ago, so expect very short qualifying sessions.
The 1st series featured single lap qualifying which was a bit awkward to monitor, so I will be reducing the qualifying sessions to only allow time for 2 flying laps.
So make sure you have space around you and get a good 'banker' in before you go nuts ;)

Password: see above

Practice: 19:30 (52 mins)
Qual: 20:23 (8 mins) 
Race: 20:30  (60 mins + 1 lap)


Cars allowed:
1972 Porsche RSR
(Kunos Porsche pack #1 add-on)

Skin pack available here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vp9qetzvztkfnk0/RSR%20Skinpack.zip?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/vp9qetzvztkfnk0/RSR%20Skinpack.zip?dl=0)
Drop it into your assetto corsa folder - It shouldn't over-write anything unless you already have any of the skins included.


Track: Spa
Download link: Stock Kunos track


Live Timing: here (http://stracker.simracing.org.uk:50041/lapstat)

Time of Day Setting: 14:30
Weather: Mid-clear
Start: Standing
Tyre wear: Normal
Fuel consumption: Normal
Pit-stops: Not required

Server track settings:
SESSION_START=100
RANDOMNESS=0
LAP_GAIN=0
SESSION_TRANSFER=N/a

Damage: 60%

Password: see above

PLP App - Not used in this series. Cutting will be monitored on replay and penalties issued for excessive cutting.

i am absolutely gutted to say i think i will miss this round due to a clash with my PCGB e-sports round  :'( It starts earlier than this but think it will overlap, will check. Truth is i'd rather race classic widebody RSR's around Spa than modern Porsche Cup at Silverstone but they have quite strict rules on missing rounds.

Hi Tim, where can we find the championship table please ?

It's here https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?action=LM2R&group=1222&theme=4

But if you look at the Series column (top right) you'll find it under A16 RSR and also there's a breadcrumb at the top of the topic, the last bit also takes you to the series table.

Thank you.

Anybody tried Spa? I feel like I'm driving on ice, constantly sliding into oversteering spins.

The problem is loosing the rear entering in the corners, i tried to soften it and was quite easier ti drive, even faster

I have reduced rear bump all the way to zero. It does seem to make it safer on corner entry. Thanks.

I'm using a drivetrain 80-60, it looks very effective. With my setup the car is very stable.

After two days full immersion with the Lancia Montecarlo (DRM), the 911 RSR seems easy.  :laugh:

I'd think that the Kunos 911 is more realistic than the DRM mod though, aside they're not in the same category of course. I like the recent improvements direction, yet it looks to me that they exaggerated the clutch sledging.
Talking about the clutch (use), I'm still not sure at all that those cars were equipped and run with non synchronised gearboxes ("boîtes à crabots" in french, sorry, dunno the english wording), so that they might need clutch use and not a perfect rev-matching without clutch use.. Would need more tests in the AC mod to see if you break the gearbox when you don't make the cogwheels match.
Here I don't hear the characteristical crack we should hear if it was such a gearbox design : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5QJWhp3W70

To sum it up : wether you'd need to rev match exactly, or use the clutch. And it doesn't look like it's actually the case.
Or if anyone can correct me ?
Sorry for the topic skid !  ;D

Great laptime in this 911 at Spa by the way !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdJ8l_omd3I

Yes, is missing the typical whistle of "racing gearbox" (in Italian it is called "cambio ad innesti frontali", maybe in English it is called "crash gearbox"). This noise is due to the straight teeth of the gears.
There is the possibility of using it without clutch (especially from high revs).
But in general, all gearboxes can be used without clutch if you have a good timing. Tested several times with road cars.  :angel:

I read a Regazzoni's interview and he said that on the 312T the clutch was underpowered and they never used it, just for the start.

About the DRM mod: I also think that things regarding the gearbox are totally wrong. It is too easy change gear, also without clutch. With a crash gearbox you need have a perfect timing (with or without clutch).

The laptime with the 911 can be improved for almost 1 second...Tim will do that  ;D

A crash box is just the internals though Mark (straight teeth and uprated shafts/bearings)- there are straight cut versions available for nearly all cars to fit into the standard housings (straight cut are stronger so better for racing/high power - road cars don't use them because of the noise) It's only really since the 90's that racing gearboxes have been fully custom outside of single seater/prototype racing. I would be honestly amazed if factory Porsches didn't use them if regs allowed it (Just watched far too many onboards from historic races - must admit I can't hear it, athough some daft bugger did put all the spinny bits in the boot....).

I'd be even more amazed if the DRM cars didn't have crash boxes due to the daft horsepower and the primative (by todays standards) machining and metal alloys available - Watch the onboard here and you can just make out the whine once the Capri gets to 4th/5th: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwDaozSeyfo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwDaozSeyfo), you can clearly hear it in Fabri's post too.
Bear in mind that the whole reason Porsches' Group C cars of the mid 80s' and later design ran spool-diffs was because even the best mechanical diffs of the time couldn't be relied on to survive an endurance race with ~7-800bhp :)

As to gearbox damage - it is posible to do, as while trying to drop my laptimes to equal that Michal chap I performed a few fluffed shifts and also a couple of rushed changes and slippage - which feels a lot like my Subaru when I've been over-exhuberant out of junctions, just with less burning smells ;D Deffinately managed to gert the gearbox to flash at me a bit while doing that.
I should note that clutch slippage from a rushed shift is not really the same as slippage from a knackered clutch, it is a lot more like what is depicted in AC.

I'll do some practice at Spa in the RSR either tonight or tomorrow I expect - will be interesting to see what I can manage against Manteos, Spa should suit his style more than mine!

Enjoy:-  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUeShDZUyE0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUeShDZUyE0)

That one's straight cut - can hear it in 3rd/4th. It might be a ratio thing or just the wind noise stopping the sound from travelling on the LM vids I guess

no you can see him using the clutch when he approaches the bus-stop chicane.

About 10yrs ago i was lucky enough to be given several hot laps around Spa in a genuine widebody RSR driven by the 'then' Dutch Historics racing champion. It didnt have a dog-box and that was the car he had just won the championship in. It was as epic as you can imagine   :o 8)

You'd still use a clutch to change! Especially up!  :o
Straight cut is for strength/longevity/speed (As the sycro's are less important, and actually missing in most cases), if you just throw the gears together they'll still explode pretty quick!

Don't forget that modern sequentials and 'clever' flat shift manuals have a throttle-cut programed into the cars' ECU - 70's cars kept their ECUs' inside the driver ;D

he's changing down for the chicane.

But anyway, just popped up behind Fabri on the lap times  :) am hoping a tweak of my gearing may close the gap.

For ex. the Ferrari F40 had as optional the crash box, therefore requested by the customer. By default it is a normal gearbox.

Just for clarification, given my poor knowledge of the English language:
- Crash-box is the racing gear box (what I had described first and then Mark). "Cambio ad innesti frontali", in Italian.
- Dog-box is the same or is it relative to the positions (of gears) on stick (as my avatar pic)? Or it is "dogleg", so different to only "dog"?

English is too complex.  :angel:

I purposely didn't correct this earlier to save you foreigners ;)

Dog box is sometimes used to refer to a racing gearbox over here - this is because a lot of people in England used to automatically assume that a racing car would have 1st down and to the left as per Dog-leg gearboxes, as most after market race-boxes were built this way - This used to be done as it's the most efficient pattern for a 5 speed manual gearbox, so was viewed as a 'free' performance boost to the car (race cars only need 1st once normally for an entire race, so It's stuffed into a corner on it's own). Even if 1st is needed on a lap it will be fairly rare compared to the other gears.

A Crash box is anything with straight cut teeth, as it will crash and crunch for any change that isn't perfectly matched in RPM's. While a crash box will survive non-matched shifts fairly well, that isn't their intended purpose and you can still blow them up easily enough if you don't use the clutch. (Trust me - I've pushed enough of them off tracks while marshalling ;) )
Nearly all race gearboxes are crashboxes as they use straight teeth. Also most older lorry, off road and construction equipment use crash boxes for their toughness/torque transmission.
This is less common nowadays as CNC machining is so much better, and structural science is so much further advanced that the 'impossible' (automatic gearboxes on big lorries for instance) is now pretty much normal.

Dog-Leg is any gearbox that has 1st down and left (Or down and right for reversed orientation gearboxes like the BRM monstrosity from the P83/P115) with reverse where a 'normal' gearbox has 1st.
So most old BMW's/Bigger engined old manual Mercs, some 5 speed Porsches (I think) use them. Also lots of Getrag boxes aimed at racing/performance up until the 80's were dogleg for instance (The manual version of my old 280TE was a Getrag dogleg - only time I've ever wanted a manual Mercedes :D Oddly an old Merc van I drove in a job I had about 20 years ago had a dog-leg gearbox - ironic as it had almost no performance!)
In the Capri on-board I posted earlier you can see it has a dog-leg box - standard Capris' had 4 or 5 speed conventional gearboxes on the road with 1st up and left.

Yes, it is as I thought.

Also all Ferrari with 5 speeds had the Dog-leg gearbox.

And how not to mention the old Iveco Daily ;D  All the drivers started in 2nd because they thought the 1st was a reduced one. I used the 1st instead. ;)

A whole lot education going on here :)

Any chance to change time of the race in the server?

Actually from Eau Rouge to Les Combe you don't see anything because of the sunset.

Cheers

Lorenzo

Race time is set as 14:30 so I don't know what's going on there!

I'll take a look at the practice settings....


*edit* server looked OK, I've restarted it - the latest it will be in our race is 15:30ish so this shouldn't ba an issue for us anyway :)

Last week was through choice but sadly this week isn't, work will get in the way so wont make it.

I guess I'll jump this one and I'll probably retire from the champ. Sorry chaps  :-[

No time to prepare the race and driving with paddles wouldn't be fun, given that I won't be able to finish a race driving with manual clutch. Never fell in love for this car anyway, so I won't miss it ;)

See you around ;)

What if you turn on autoclutch? That still works with a H-shifter I think?

On a circuit like Spa, it means you lose a second per lap in the upshift :-\

Will try to do some laps before the race if I can, but this will be my last race with the RSR as I've no time to prepare 2 races per week, cause I need some laps to be competitive during a race and not become a danger on track.

See you later

i should be able to make the race  :o but will probably miss qualifying (which is annoying but the price to pay). I am going to forfeit race 2 of my PCGB series to make the grid here.  :'( (Got a helicopter on standby to whisk me from Silverstone to Spa....life of a racing driver eh  ;D )
It'll be tight though as my race1 finishes at 8.20 and on a different sim platform, so got to hope the transition goes smoothly, ie no friggin updates/Rift upsets etc.

I'll accidentally start the server 2 minutes late for you ;)

they have a 20minute gap between race 1 and 2, so if i get taken out here early i can hop back in that helicopter to Silverstone  ;D
But hopefully that wont be necessary  :-*

Unfortunately I won't be' able ti join the race in Amy case. Sorry again chaps. 

Have fun

Race server now up (early) so you'll need the password to join  :)

What a bloody waste of time, kicked to desktop when sent out on track, re-joined and the minute lights changed dumped out again. Absolutely bloody gutted, the one race I practiced and looked forward to and this happens, time for me to pack it in.

Stupid Beetle with tuned engine....my grannys sewing machine keeps better noise that this.

I got a bit distracted in the break between qualifying and the race, because I was also chatting with a girl. I got a little out of focus.  ::)
I did a pretty bad start, or rather, I came out badly, sliping, at La Source. I made a further mistake at Eau Rouge. I had to fight with Jos and Tim firmly took first place.
Having regained the necessary concentration, I began to take my pace, similar to that of Tim. Unfortunately, when I tried to push a little harder, I made small mistakes that made me waste time instead of earning it.
This car is so, it should be driven gently.
The gap remained about 5-6 seconds in the second half of race. Nothing, another second place.
Tim is too strong!

I want to see the battle between Mark and Jos.:)

Sorry guys, had some problems at work and couldn't make it.

Regards

Lorenzo

Sorry to see your probems there Bob - I don' think anyone else had issues so not sure what went wrong for you :(

I enjoyed that one - even if I did royally mess up qualifying (This was the exact reason Simon originally ran this series with only 1 flying lap, you have to choose between max attack and a safe lap time).

At the race I got a launch that was equal enough to Fabri to stay alongside into the 1st corner.
I then forced the car to slide into the hairpin and set up a drift to keep mid-corner speed up and somehow popped out of the other side with a run on him down the hill 8)

After the few small mistakes, and the fight with Jos slowing him I was able to get a couple of seconds of clean air behind me. As I didn't have to worry about attacks from behind I could just concentrate on lapping fast.
Aside from 2 minor mistakes in the race I other wise kept it together and spent much of the race with a 6 second gap - kind of lonely especially when I could see an epic battle raging between Mark and Jos in the timings!

Well done to Fabri for some great pace last night - being honest it was only really lap 1 and a bit more consistency that let me get that one un-challenged.
Also congratulations to Mark for eventually coming out on top and claiming 3rd, I'll hopefully get a chance to watch the replay of that before tonights race..

Well done to all finishers, and hour in these cars is hard work! :D

Messy race for me which is annoying because I'm usually a bit more consistent than that  ::)

Found some decent pace in quali but ran out wide at Blanchimont losing my time when I was over a second up on my first banker lap. Had to take avoiding action at the start when Frex selected reverse going into La Source which put me at the back of the pack.

Enjoyed the chase back but was distracted by yellow flags as someone in front seemed to be spending more time off track than on it! Eventually settled into a nice race with a long running battle with Syd. I made too many mistakes looking for a way past and spun several times chasing back then had to pick myself up and start all over again. I eventually found a way through with 3 or 4 laps to go. 

Congrats to pody.

Yeah, sorry again about that, still not really sure happened there - initially couldn't get a gear at all, and then got reverse instead of first. I thought maybe some wear in the shifter and concerned it may happen again at some point, but thankfully the rest of the race was ok. Shame, as I thought I might have been in the fight for P3, but no matter as still had some good fights along the way. Fun car to drive.

Congrats podium.

It was hard work doing two different sim races straight after the other but glad i made the effort as it was as much fun as i was hoping for. Though did think i would be fighting a gaggle of cars rather than just one the whole hour!  ;D

turned up thankfully with just enough time to get two flying laps in but had to settle for 5th as couldnt match my pbs coming straight from a modern 911 cup car in i-Racing to a 1970's RSR in AC without any warm up laps  :P
Got a good start and shot up the outside for La Source taking a look at Jos and Fabri whilst Syd attacked me down to Radillion. That continued for about a lap until we shook off Syd and it then turned into an hour long fight with Jos for 3rd place  :fencing: I could see Fabri and Tim up ahead but whilst we were duking it out it was allowing both to build up a steady lead with no pressure. I wanted to get past to mount an attack on Fabri but Jos put up a sterling defence and we swapped places countless times. He always placed his car well each time i got a run on him. Twice i got ahead and then ran out of room at the end of the Kemmel with a snatching front right so he was able to retake the place.
After another cracking dice at the bus stop late on, he got another let off, i went for the old switch and duck under move through the chicane but must have been slightly on the marbles on the outside and the car pitched right instead of left unexpectedly!  :taz: That gave Jos about a 5 second cushion and it took me about 5laps to reclose that gap and pressure him again.
In the closing minutes i think we were both running out of tyres a little as both were twitching through Pouhon but i got a great late run on Jos in sector 3, with a good exit onto the back straight and was able to power up the inside of him for the fast left hander at Blanchimont. I took as narrow a line as the tyres would let me and could only trust that Jos would avoid contact as we both swept into the turn, then a brief glimpse in my mirror told me i had the place! and i kept it composed into the following chicane. He valiantly tried to come back at me on the very last lap but think his tyres gave up at campus and i romped home for 3rd  :)
It was a fantastic battle for an hour  8)
Congrats to Tim on the win and Fabris well earned 2nd place  :)

Great race/fight yesterday at Spa with the 911 RSR. An epic battle with Mark and a very well deserved ending for both of us :D.
La Source was fine and Mark didn't present much of a risk there, but my stupid tendency to take Eau Rouge too quickly made me lose a lot of time at Raidillon in too many laps... Then Mark was faster from Fagnes to the end... Specially Campus (he was really a few tents faster than I all the way)... Anyway, I could hold him for most of the race... Congrats on a fantastic fight and a well-deserved podium. Also to Tim and Fabri. I hope you all enjoy this epic battle.
https://youtu.be/DxviFYyfkYU (https://youtu.be/DxviFYyfkYU)

Just watched nearly that entire hour of racing again  ;D awesome battle. For any neutrals who dont want to watch the whole thing, the lap from about 1hr:01 onwards sums up our whole hour pretty much  8) Side by side through Blanchimont for the coveted 3rd spot :o nice way to earn it.
love your setup Jos, feels like you are in the car.  :)