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UKGTR => UKGTR Races => Topic started by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on October 28, 2006, 11:46:53 AM +0100



Title: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on October 28, 2006, 11:46:53 AM +0100
Date: Tuesday 31st October - Happy Halloween Season Opener

Practice 1:20:15(10 mins)full time drivers only
Practice 2:20:25(10 mins)reserves may join too
Qual 2:20:35(20 mins)
Race:21:00(40 mins)

Cars allowed: any NGT from the UKGTR Skin Pack v2.1 (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?pid=27) - see this thread (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2228.0).
Weather: Dry
Track: Valencia GP
Race Start Time 14:00

Server: UKGTR NGT Masters
Password: here (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2311)

Notes:
(1) Please make sure you are fully aware of the UKGTR Rules (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?pid=7) - especially the speed limiter starting procedure and the rules about in-game chat messages.
(2) Important! We plan to encourage drivers to pick one car and stick to it, so expect some sort of modest points penalty if you change cars in subsequent races.
(3) Driver lists can be found on the championship standings page (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&group=35).
(4) You will not be able to join the server without the skin and ballast pack (see link above).


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on October 30, 2006, 05:36:11 PM +0000
Skin pack published.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Aagramn on October 30, 2006, 05:45:28 PM +0000
Excellent. Thanks for getting the ballast and skin pack sorted out.  ;D


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Jeffrey on October 30, 2006, 06:04:59 PM +0000
I must have been doing something wrong, but why do I get some cars double. For instance, the Z3 without balast (0 KG) and 1 with 5 kg balast. Did I have to install the beta balastpack vefore installing this? I did not use modmanager but just unpacked?


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on October 30, 2006, 06:10:34 PM +0000
I must have been doing something wrong, but why do I get some cars double. For instance, the Z3 without balast (0 KG) and 1 with 5 kg balast. Did I have to install the beta balastpack vefore installing this? I did not use modmanager but just unpacked?

You need to remove the beta pack first - just delete anything with UKGTR in its name, then reinstall the production pack. I'll be sending out a PM-shot later with instructions and some other notes.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Aagramn on October 30, 2006, 06:38:28 PM +0000
You need to remove the beta pack first - just delete anything with UKGTR in its name, then reinstall the production pack. I'll be sending out a PM-shot later with instructions and some other notes.

I did this by opening a command prompt in my GTR2 directory and typing the following:

del /s *ukgtr*.*

The /s option deletes anything that matches from the subdirectories as well, but be very careful with those wildcards folks.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on October 30, 2006, 06:48:34 PM +0000
I did this by opening a command prompt in my GTR2 directory and typing the following:

del /s *ukgtr*.*

The /s option deletes anything that matches from the subdirectories as well, but be very careful with those wildcards folks.

Even I don't do it that way and I'm a supergeek! :D I right click my GameData folder, select Search from the context menu, type in UKGTR and hit the Search button. Then   I check what comes up, and if I'm happy press Control-A to select them all and hit the Delete key.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Aagramn on October 30, 2006, 07:14:18 PM +0000
I've had my moment.  8)

Strange thing is, I've always been pretty useless with command prompts - it just didn't occur to me to use a file search.  :o


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Simon Gymer on October 30, 2006, 07:53:18 PM +0000
Just a word of warning your PM regarding the skin pack says and i quote...
"If you have the 2.0a1 pack installed, please remove it by searching for and deleting all files in your GTR2/GameData directory"

Err, EVERYTHING?! Nooooooo! :hang:


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on October 30, 2006, 08:12:07 PM +0000
Just a word of warning your PM regarding the skin pack says and i quote...
"If you have the 2.0a1 pack installed, please remove it by searching for and deleting all files in your GTR2/GameData directory"
Err, EVERYTHING?! Nooooooo!

Kippers! Good spot - urgent second PM sent!


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Simon Gymer on October 30, 2006, 10:09:51 PM +0000
Skins and ballast all seemed to work with no technical difficulties for me. I decided to try out a load of the cars online on the server to do a comparitive test of times with the new ballast. Sorry couldn't manage all 15,000 car variations so 7 will have to do  ;) Bear in mind this is Valencia so it's twisty and horse power is not as big a factor (although still a factor) as other circuits...

350Z - 1:36.8 - Very stable car, late braking possilbe, it's still lacking power.
Morgan - 1:36.7 - Lively as hell, great fun, but hard to live with for 40 mins. Very hard suspension, takes a lot of car control.
360GTC - 1:36.9 - I just hate the GTC. I was alright with the Modena in GTR1 but I just don't get on with the GTC in GTR2 which probably accounts for the poor laptime.
TVR - 1:36.0 - This car is just smoooooooth and huuuuge amounts of fun. Completely controllable lively car. Can brake late and great turn in.
Mosler - 1:35.9 - Probably quite a bit more speed left in that one, but I just wanted to do a few laps. Pretty stable, a bit oversteery on entry, but provide good turn in.
RSR - 1:36.9 - Couldn't drive the 911 well in GTR1 and no different here. Not really a representative lap time. Could probably do another second quicker if I persevered.
M3 - 1:36.1 - Will go quicker than that with more laps. Bit oversteery and feels hard to brake with all that german engineering ballast so might be hard to resist overtakers that can keep up down the straights.

911 GT2 I don't think should be allowed in NGT as I said before, it's got too much horse power. I commend anyone taking it mind you as it's still a complete and utter pig to drive and i wouldn't drive it if you paid me.  ;D


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Radius on October 30, 2006, 10:16:34 PM +0000
good job shark...


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Pedro[PL] on October 30, 2006, 11:04:14 PM +0000
You don't like 360GTC? Try my "anti spin" setup at www.clex-polska.pl/anty_spin_360.zip

I managed to do regular 1.35.9xx - 1.36.5xx in my practice race today.



Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: greg130 on October 31, 2006, 12:17:52 AM +0000
911 GT2 I don't think should be allowed in NGT as I said before, it's got too much horse power. I commend anyone taking it mind you as it's still a complete and utter pig to drive and i wouldn't drive it if you paid me.  ;D

Your'e not wrong mate its a complete pig, good in a straight line but come the twisty bits, well different story. Not to mention the tyre wear on a long run, lol.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Simon Gymer on October 31, 2006, 03:46:30 PM +0000
Can we get the qually session increased? Last season it was 10 mins P1, 5 mins P2 and 28 mins qually. 20 minutes is going to VERY hectic and imho lead to more unmoderatable incidents (with no replay available for qually).

Can we reduce P2 to 5 mins and increase qually to 25 mins?
(P2 is only to let reserves join. How long do they need?! :P)


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Aagramn on October 31, 2006, 03:51:30 PM +0000
Think that would be a good idea, the reserves shouldn't need long to get in, and an extra 5 minutes in qual would be good.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: picnic on October 31, 2006, 03:59:23 PM +0000
I think the longer qual is a good idea too. We're starting 15 mins earlier than before and knocking time off the event if we stick to the schedule.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Filipe Galego on October 31, 2006, 04:08:52 PM +0000
Where can I donwload the ballast pack? Is this in the skin pack 2.1?
Thanks


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Aagramn on October 31, 2006, 04:14:56 PM +0000
Yes, the ballast is included in the skin pack Filipe.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Filipe Galego on October 31, 2006, 04:15:53 PM +0000
Thank you Aagramn!! ;)


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Radius on October 31, 2006, 04:32:33 PM +0000
Why has no1 mentioned the start grid bug???

If i quali P1 then i'll be but P2 and vice versa. This is random tho but for me its always happened at Valencia.

Well i suggest that if this does happen i will let the pole guy thru from second place and form up behind him


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on October 31, 2006, 04:59:34 PM +0000
Why has no1 mentioned the start grid bug???

If i quali P1 then i'll be but P2 and vice versa. This is random tho but for me its always happened at Valencia.

Well i suggest that if this does happen i will let the pole guy thru from second place and form up behind him

'Tis a good point - the application of common sense when moving off for the pace lap is to be encouraged. ;)


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: popabawa on October 31, 2006, 06:17:32 PM +0000
Good luck to all for the season, I'm sure it's going to be a good 'un :)


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Keith_D on October 31, 2006, 06:43:43 PM +0000
guys i need help, I keep getting a CTD everytime I hit the drive button, any ideas?, been fine up to now


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: greg130 on October 31, 2006, 07:01:13 PM +0000
Are you in one of the addon team cars ?
If yes then my guess is it isnt installed correctly.
If no then try the gtr2 3d config setup thingy.
If that fails sorry no idea apart from a re-install.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Keith_D on October 31, 2006, 07:03:07 PM +0000
Are you in one of the addon team cars ?
If yes then my guess is it isnt installed correctly.
If no then try the gtr2 3d config setup thingy.
If that fails sorry no idea apart from a re-install.

Just did a full reinstall same problem even without the ukgtr patch :(


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Aagramn on October 31, 2006, 07:07:30 PM +0000
Have you changed anything else on your PC recently, like drivers or BIOS settings?


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: JonM_uk on October 31, 2006, 07:13:35 PM +0000
The only thing I can think of is to try changing the DX level in 3dconfig like Greg said. If your running DX9 try DX8 or7 :-\


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Keith_D on October 31, 2006, 07:17:17 PM +0000
Have you changed anything else on your PC recently, like drivers or BIOS settings?

not changed anything, came home tonight switched it on and this, done a reinstall, changed dx levels and it just keeps ctd when i press drive


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Radius on October 31, 2006, 07:29:58 PM +0000
Have you changed anything else on your PC recently, like drivers or BIOS settings?

not changed anything, came home tonight switched it on and this, done a reinstall, changed dx levels and it just keeps ctd when i press drive

by re-install u should remove reg entries, if any left behind, and re-install to a different location, create a new profile etc.

Is this happening on other standard tracks as well? online and/or offline CTD?

Are ur other games ok? re-install ur gfx drivers (or get latest ones)


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Simon Gymer on October 31, 2006, 08:11:30 PM +0000
Good luck everyone for this new season.

I suspect I'm going to be near the back of the pack in the Masters, but hoping for some really good racing. Have decided upon the TVR because it's soo much fun. Will have to get painting a skin for the next skin pack so I can drive in team colours.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Mark J on October 31, 2006, 09:30:13 PM +0000
Great start for the new season for me, it wouldnt let me join the grid  >:(  I got a load of blue numbers appear next to everyones name and a greyed out 'Drive' button  :'(

Hope you all had a good race.

Enjoyed watching an epic scrap between TT and Shark, nice driving guys  8)


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Keith_D on October 31, 2006, 09:31:27 PM +0000
Have you changed anything else on your PC recently, like drivers or BIOS settings?

not changed anything, came home tonight switched it on and this, done a reinstall, changed dx levels and it just keeps ctd when i press drive

by re-install u should remove reg entries, if any left behind, and re-install to a different location, create a new profile etc.

Is this happening on other standard tracks as well? online and/or offline CTD?

Are ur other games ok? re-install ur gfx drivers (or get latest ones)

Happens offline and on, i can do anything in the game except drive, veiw Ai etc, but it just wont let me on the track, I've reinstalled gfx drivers, defragged, reg cleaned the lot, I'm completely gutted, I cant begin to say how disappointed I feel right now :(


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Carl Hart on October 31, 2006, 09:50:19 PM +0000
Well had a good race, got up into 7th i think and then ran low on fuel! Had to pit and then got a stop and go penelty and ended up 18th! Not a good start to the season. I'll remember to put slightly more fuel in the next race. Grats to Ruskus for the win!


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Jeffrey on October 31, 2006, 09:51:13 PM +0000
I took the GT2, and it was fast in qually.

I was afraid for the race. I had no idea how the car would handle. I took 90L of fuel, which was for 53 minutes. Expected the weight to cost loads more fuel, but I was left with 20L afterwards, so I had an additional weight penalty :).
In lap 1 Claus went off and I had some breathing space, as he probably would have been knocking on my door in the beginning of the race. The first laps I created a gap, so I could preserve my engine.
With 7 minutes left some tyres were gone, and 3 minutes later, the other half. Dunno in what order, front first or rear first ???.

By the look of the finishing times, there were some close battles.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: popabawa on October 31, 2006, 09:51:39 PM +0000
That was hard! As I suspected, I was a fair way off the pace but a reasonably consistent drive brought me in 15th I think.

Mission accomplished; didn't get lapped  ;D


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Simon Gymer on October 31, 2006, 09:54:50 PM +0000
Great racing guys. That's the most enjoyable online race I've had in ages. Was really close and the ballast pack really helped bring the cars closer together (well apart from the GT2  :P). I'm really glad I chose the TVR, it was just the most beautiful car to drive. Yes maybe lacking down the straights but I was having so much fun in the corners I didn't really care and ended up a very pleasing 10th position. Lag/stutter was gone tonight for me too which is great news. Cars were rock solid and was really nice to race so close with people.

Now I just need to get that TVR skin painted!  ;D

Grid was a bit screwed on both servers apparently. Hope that's that track only, but I guess not much we can do about it but be nice to each other to readjust where it puts us on the formation lap.

Well done Jeff on the win, great start.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: picnic on October 31, 2006, 10:05:06 PM +0000
Replay (http://www.ukgtr.org/replay/Valencia%20GP%20-%20NGT%20Masters%20061031.zip) and Provisional Results (https://www.simracing.org.uk/index.php?ind=lm2&event=271) posted


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Minton on October 31, 2006, 10:06:34 PM +0000
Great race ,  Hadnt driven the RSR with the ballast and noticed the difference .. Found it harder on turn in and seemed to push midcorner which showed i my quali time which was a second slower than the pre-season fun race.first First few laps laps were great with five or six of us diving every which way.. great driving!   Made a mistake and clipped someone and turned them round not sure who but sorry.
Had a good scrap with Baracus who had the legs on me but managed to stay ahead after he spun and brought it home eighth.
Cheers


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Jeffrey on October 31, 2006, 10:23:36 PM +0000


Unofficial Lapchart (http://www.lapcharts.teamshark.org.uk/Lapcharts/Valencia Masters 31-10-2006/g_info.htm)


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Pedro[PL] on October 31, 2006, 10:31:21 PM +0000
What a terrible fantastic race!

I qualified 10th which was a surprise to me as I felt prepared. This unfortunately confirms my assumptions, that my GTR pace was due to poor physics :( Anyway - my race setup was rock steady and I hoped to gain some positions in race.

As this was my first race with GTR2 I tried to be conservative at the beginning. Strong pressure from behind and several minor mistakes of mine made me change my mind.

Midrace I had some incredible fight with Aagramn. Man... he really rules! Fight ended with my face being sore - here meaning that I lost my front wing. Quick (58s :)) visit to the pits. Then another one - stop and go for pitlane speeding. And another one - as the computer failed to notice me the first time.

Rest of the race was very quick as I hoped to get into first 20th :D I even "unlapped" some guys that lapped me while I was in the pits.

OH LORD! Give me my MOTEC back!!!


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: baracus250gt on October 31, 2006, 10:33:06 PM +0000
That was a cracking race. I think its the hardest I have ever driven for a P9 finish!!
Unbelievable pace from CJ and very unlucky to lose it on lap 1 as I think he would have made Ruskus' life more interesting there.
I took waaaay too much fuel and had my radiator opening too much but I dont think it would have made that much difference in the long run.

Absolutely full-on race between Simon and I for the first half of the race and then Dan in the second half... I nearly had him under braking but pushed a bit too hard on the pedal in a slighlty panicky moment, spun and he got his 5 second gap back :)   - Then I had Simon on my case again until the chequer. Sorry Simon if you think I should have let you through after I totally screwed the last turn up but I managed to get it into 1st and get it pointing the right way. No warning either but I think GTR2 is a bit leniant on the C/T warnings.

I think I need to do some serious setup work in my 360 (or is it my driving hehehe)

Looking forward to GT's next - with another bath full of water for weight ballast :)

Great pace by all - really good safe driving so well done everyone. Especially Rus - grats m8


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: james on October 31, 2006, 10:50:11 PM +0000
Good race, very hard work with the GT2, but it does seem to have the edge on the other cars

the race went well up until about lap 15 when the tyres started to overheat/wear, Greg started to close the gap which hovered around a second until the end of the race, which came as a relief   :)

good pace Ruskus 


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Aagramn on October 31, 2006, 11:23:18 PM +0000
Very tough race. Took the M3, was OK but as the tyres got worn it was very difficult to get it's nose into the slow corners. Qualified 15th, but lost a place due to the grid bug. Had some good fights, especially with Leuven & Pedro. Had to watch my mirrors very carefully before taking the apex, really wasn't sure how much better the lighter cars would be on the brakes. Was hampered slightly with pedal problems. Brake spiked a couple times, and once when I floored the throttle nothing happened, letting NoSpeed past. Need to check a couple incidents on the replay. Quite pleased with 12th considering the quality of the field.

Think the ballast pack is a big success, it's brought the cars much closer together. Could do with a little tweaking though, the GT2 dominated both races tonight.




Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: PaulW on October 31, 2006, 11:49:37 PM +0000
Think the ballast pack is a big success, it's brought the cars much closer together. Could do with a little tweaking though, the GT2 dominated both races tonight.
Definitely, big improvement over the 360/911 dominated GTR races. Staring at the back end of yet another 360 was getting a bit old! A nice, neat solution though I've never felt penalising people switching was quite right before. Arguable either way but surely not neccessary now that the cars are more balanced.

I was off pace all night (only got the game this afternoon) but what did you think of the M3's ballast Aagramn? I lack experience in GTR 2 at the mo' but it felt tough in the twisty bits and then also struggled to pull away from everything but the TVR on the straights.

Great fun overall, heck of a tough field. And there isn't a single Spanish race track I enjoy driving :laugh:


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Simon Gymer on November 01, 2006, 12:12:30 AM +0000
Sorry Simon if you think I should have let you through after I totally screwed the last turn up but I managed to get it into 1st and get it pointing the right way. No warning either but I think GTR2 is a bit leniant on the C/T warnings.

Lol, heck no Baracus. I had to slow to be safe as you had spun, it's difficult predicting which way a car will slide in slow speed spins, so didn't just pile into the last corner (yes unlike Alonso I take care when yellows come out ;)). You got going very fast again and I saw you flash your lights ahead to say thanks, but there was no need. As MarkJ will testify I do like weaving around in people's mirrors to put them off to try and grab the spot, it was nothing more than that. I figured as you'd just made a mistake that I'd try and harry you a bit to see if you made another one in quick succession, but no, too good for that.  :laugh:


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Aagramn on November 01, 2006, 12:40:20 AM +0000
Definitely, big improvement over the 360/911 dominated GTR races. Staring at the back end of yet another 360 was getting a bit old! A nice, neat solution though I've never felt penalising people switching was quite right before. Arguable either way but surely not neccessary now that the cars are more balanced.

The idea behind the penalty is to prevent drivers from making tactical switches to pick the best car for every track, taking a good handling car at the twisty tracks and something more powerful at the circuits with long straights. Not too keen on the penalty myself, but I understand the reasoning behind it. It's more of an issue if the GT2 stays in the NGT class.

I was off pace all night (only got the game this afternoon) but what did you think of the M3's ballast Aagramn? I lack experience in GTR 2 at the mo' but it felt tough in the twisty bits and then also struggled to pull away from everything but the TVR on the straights.

I think it's pretty close to most of the other cars. Over a race distance, 80kg may be a little too much for it, but it's difficult to say at this point. Other tracks may suit it better. It has 40bhp more than the RSR, but it's 70kg heavier before any ballast is added.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Luis Branco on November 01, 2006, 01:36:00 AM +0000
I was hoping to have the new G25 wheel to race tonight but the EMS didn't was up to what I had expected. It was to have arrived today but it didn't and I paid extra for the EMS 24H service >:(
Tomorrow is a National Holiday here in Portugal so no better luck until at least Thursday. :(
With my 6 year old Momo Force broken I still tried to race but I quickly saw that would be impossible. The wheel don't calibrate anymore, it has no centre spring force, loses FF and as the bad habit to try to turn by it self independently from to where I want to go.

Congrats to the winner and to all for a fantastic lap time grid for Valencia.

Hope to be in better shape for the following races.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: PaulW on November 01, 2006, 09:48:18 AM +0000
Definitely, big improvement over the 360/911 dominated GTR races. Staring at the back end of yet another 360 was getting a bit old! A nice, neat solution though I've never felt penalising people switching was quite right before. Arguable either way but surely not neccessary now that the cars are more balanced.

The idea behind the penalty is to prevent drivers from making tactical switches to pick the best car for every track, taking a good handling car at the twisty tracks and something more powerful at the circuits with long straights. Not too keen on the penalty myself, but I understand the reasoning behind it. It's more of an issue if the GT2 stays in the NGT class.
I'm not keen on it either. This is a piece of entertainment first and formost, I'd like to be free to enjoy the range of cars on offer without penalty. A 20% switch penalty does matter, contrary to the assertion in the announcement, if you're scrapping for points lower down the list because, though the loss of points will be less, you're still fighting for every single point you can get during a season that may see you only amass 12, for example.

I was off pace all night (only got the game this afternoon) but what did you think of the M3's ballast Aagramn? I lack experience in GTR 2 at the mo' but it felt tough in the twisty bits and then also struggled to pull away from everything but the TVR on the straights.

I think it's pretty close to most of the other cars. Over a race distance, 80kg may be a little too much for it, but it's difficult to say at this point. Other tracks may suit it better. It has 40bhp more than the RSR, but it's 70kg heavier before any ballast is added.
It's close yup. For the record, last night felt like it was 10Kg too heavy but it's impossible to say until it's been used on other tracks.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Mark J on November 01, 2006, 10:38:15 AM +0000
Did anyone else suffer odd times over various sessions at Valencia? I would say at both races we've had here (fun race and last nights) the handling has altered dramatically for me compared to offline and online practise sessions. I know there is more pressure / tension / distractions on race night, but i was attempting to take corners that i knew off by heart during last nights session and the grip levels/handling were completely different. I set faster times in full race fuel on monday online praccy than i could get near in qually fuel last night  ???

With regards to ballast, whilst i agree its great to even the cars up and make it more interesting, aren't we altering the basic strengths and weaknesses of certain cars too much ? +50kg or  -50kg is making huge differences to each cars aspects. The TVR can seemingly now match the RSR on straights and yet you can throw it into a corner far easily than a Porsche so thereby making the Tiv a better car around the track as a whole. (just an example)  :-\
Also those with +50kg or more are going to suffer serious tyre wear whilst those on -50 will have great tyres for long distances. Surely this will be a real problem in endurance events ?
TT reported his RSR tyres going off at mid race distance last night  :o and the beemer will suffer likewise, if not more.

Not bitching, just enquiring, though the fact my thoroughbred porker has been turned into a fat understeering cow is not amusing  :(


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Pedro[PL] on November 01, 2006, 11:27:35 AM +0000
I had the same feeling about handling between yesterday's qual and race. Even FF strength felt different.

To add my brick to weight discussion - I believe that each car has it's own strengths / weaknesses and it's not required to level them with ballast. I would rather find the quickest drivers ballasted as in real life. Also I agree, that +50k is huge!

I support the idea of racing single car make during the whole season as my concept of sim-racing is, that we should aim at making it as real as possible.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Radius on November 01, 2006, 11:31:12 AM +0000
My RSR was just pathetic and i didnt have fun at all...guess i should just get used to it and now i cant change it with the new rule. id rather take the abarth tx  ;)

I do think the ballast thingy is heading in the right direction but its been tested far too little



Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: PaulW on November 01, 2006, 11:34:05 AM +0000
That works for you Pedro, but not for everyone. To flip it around I wouldn't insist you change cars several times if you didn't want to. The point is a bit moot though and I understand the reasoning. It's never sat well with me but isn't going to be a show-stopper.

As for weight, wasn't it cool that we had a nice selection of cars last night? I think the weights just need a bit of tweaking but one track isn't going to be enough to be able to judge exactly how yet.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on November 01, 2006, 11:40:32 AM +0000
With regards to ballast, whilst i agree its great to even the cars up and make it more interesting, aren't we altering the basic strengths and weaknesses of certain cars too much ? +50kg or  -50kg is making huge differences to each cars aspects.

50kg is a lot less than the mass of a full tank of fuel.

To add my brick to weight discussion - I believe that each car has it's own strengths / weaknesses and it's not required to level them with ballast. I would rather find the quickest drivers ballasted as in real life. Also I agree, that +50k is huge!

Unfortunately the makers of GTR2 haven't given us that as a realistic option.

My RSR was just pathetic and i didnt have fun at all...guess i should just get used to it and now i cant change it with the new rule
id rather take the abarth tx

Thanks for the constructive criticism. :P Nobody is going to stop you changing car and to suggest so is at best disingenious.

I'm not keen on it either. This is a piece of entertainment first and formost, I'd like to be free to enjoy the range of cars on offer without penalty. A 20% switch penalty does matter, contrary to the assertion in the announcement, if you're scrapping for points lower down the list because, though the loss of points will be less, you're still fighting for every single point you can get during a season that may see you only amass 12, for example.

You have to make a tactical decision as to whether the 20% charge will be offset by the increased performance of the car you're switching to, but in the mid-pack and behind, driver ability makes far more difference than the choice of car (possibly excepting the 993 GT2 and the Vertigo, at opposite and extreme ends of the spectrum).


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on November 01, 2006, 11:44:53 AM +0000
I support the idea of racing single car make during the whole season as my concept of sim-racing is, that we should aim at making it as real as possible.

That's not, and never has been, the aim of UKGTR and SRou. We've worked to create an environment which is centered around close, clean, fair racing for gentleman and lady racers. I have always shied us away from excessive realism where I felt it would interefere with our primary goal - the start procedure being a good example of that (although I note from TenTenths that more and more club racers in the real world are coming round to a preference for sensible rolling starts).


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on November 01, 2006, 11:47:14 AM +0000
Did anyone else suffer odd times over various sessions at Valencia? I would say at both races we've had here (fun race and last nights) the handling has altered dramatically for me compared to offline and online practise sessions. I know there is more pressure / tension / distractions on race night, but i was attempting to take corners that i knew off by heart during last nights session and the grip levels/handling were completely different. I set faster times in full race fuel on monday online praccy than i could get near in qually fuel last night  ???

Yes, it felt quite different for me compared to my offline practice (which was also with the ballast pack). Track and ambient temperatures were up a little but I couldn't get within a second of my offline PB. Whether it's psychological, environmental or a 'feature' of playing online I don't know but, for me at least, the one thing it isn't is the ballast - because that's the only thing I didn't change!


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Aagramn on November 01, 2006, 12:04:44 PM +0000
Yes, it felt quite different for me compared to my offline practice (which was also with the ballast pack). Track and ambient temperatures were up a little but I couldn't get within a second of my offline PB. Whether it's psychological, environmental or a 'feature' of playing online I don't know but, for me at least, the one thing it isn't is the ballast - because that's the only thing I didn't change!

I noticed that as well. It may be a combination of a less grippy surface and lower frame rates.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Truetom on November 01, 2006, 12:08:48 PM +0000
I felt almost offended yesterday when TVR was faster on a straight than RSR. I mean - what is the point of having different cars represented in game if we make stronger cars slower and weaker cars faster.  ???   Ditch variety, I want to enjoy racing. Here. I want to enjoy racing here.  I did in Seasons 1,2,3 and I did in GTR2 fun races - Valencia included.  :)  But not yesterday.  :(  It felt struggling with the car at every entry and corner exit. Power exit was pushing the car out: not the rear, not the front - the whole car. I never saw it in GTR2 fun or in GTR1 races.

I had a setup for Valencia fun race with soft fronts and med rears. I experienced moderate understear in the last 5 minutes of the race - and with less trouble with slower cars on track my tyres would have lasted longer. Yesterday I had meds all around and the fronts felt cosiderably worn after 20 minutes, my times dropped for a second per lap and more later. Then the rears started to go also. Meds should last for 40 minutes, right?  ???  Even if I had a wrong setup, meds should last 40 minutes.

Don't want to say anymore, maybe we could go through some more races and see the results - and the mood.  ;)

TT  


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Simon Gymer on November 01, 2006, 12:11:20 PM +0000
The TVR can seemingly now match the RSR on straights and yet you can throw it into a corner far easily than a Porsche so thereby making the Tiv a better car around the track as a whole. (just an example)  :-\

Err, simply not true Mark. I could only keep up with the 360s and RSR on the straights when directly in their slip stream and I certainly had no chance to pull out and overtake down the straights. Out of slipstream the RSR and 360 still had the advantage and you will see when it comes to the faster tracks that top end is limited by horsepower more than weight.

TT, I've no idea why you think the TVR was faster on the straights. Sitting behind you I can assure you it wasn't. I was really good under braking and out the first part of the corners but on the straights I had no chance of passing you.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Truetom on November 01, 2006, 12:15:23 PM +0000
The TVR can seemingly now match the RSR on straights and yet you can throw it into a corner far easily than a Porsche so thereby making the Tiv a better car around the track as a whole. (just an example)  :-\

Err, simply not true Mark. I could only keep up with the 360s and RSR on the straights when directly in their slip stream and I certainly had no chance to pull out and overtake down the straights. Out of slipstream the RSR and 360 still had the advantage and you will see when it comes to the faster tracks that top end is limited by horsepower more than weight.

Sorry, Shark, simply not true.  >:(  I was in your slipstream and couldn't even get alongside you. You can talk about a lousy corner exit all you want but I was inside your slipstream for half the s/f line and no go.  >:(

TT


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Truetom on November 01, 2006, 12:18:36 PM +0000
TT, I've no idea why you think the TVR was faster on the straights. Sitting behind you I can assure you it wasn't. I was really good under braking and out the first part of the corners but on the straights I had no chance of passing you.

So, to flip around: if you had no chance of passing me on the s/f line then I should have EVERY chance of passing you. Easily. But I couldn't.  :(

TT


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Mark J on November 01, 2006, 12:18:52 PM +0000
agree Dave, i dont think it was the ballast either, as i also ran with the ballast the night before. It seems to be this track though as i noticed it alot on the previous fun race here. I turned up on race night thinking i had good pace and decent setups from previous practise only to find they didnt work at all well. An odd one  :-\

As for the ballast, yes maybe 50kg is a full fuel load, but thats ontop of a full fuel load already in race trim ! :o  Do you not agree that tyres are going to suffer serious wear with all that extra weight, particularly in endurance? Drivers in TVR's and Nissans will be able to scamper home with non existent tyre wear as they are -??kg making them perfect for the enduro events. Has ballast effects been tested for longer distances?
Like i say, i'm not critisicing as i like the idea of a bigger variety of cars on track but i dont want to be in the situation where i will not want to drive my favoured car because its un-competitive. An alien may be still able to drag it around in a reasonable time but more mortal drivers like myself will just be pushed further down the race order.

I thought we were originally intending to use ballast to slow down the aliens anyway? Thats where we needed to make the racing closer, so that the rest of us feel we have a chance on race night.

I'm sure the ballast debate will go on and on, just wanted to raise a concern or two. :angel:


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Simon Gymer on November 01, 2006, 12:22:05 PM +0000
Sorry, Shark, simply not true.  >:(  I was in your slipstream and couldn't even get alongside you. You can talk about a lousy corner exit all you want but I was inside your slipstream for half the s/f line and no go.  >:(

TT

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I was running lower wing too to keep up on the straights, were you running full wing? There are many factors involved, skill, car setup, driving style etc.

Not suprised your tyres were off, my experience of the 911 is that it eats tyres.

I think we need to give the pack more time at different types of circuit to see what is where. Valencia is very twisty and suits the slower cars anyway as they are more nimble. I bet I couldn't get half as close at somewhere like Barcelona or Anderstorp.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: picnic on November 01, 2006, 12:25:19 PM +0000
Sorry, Shark, simply not true.  >:(  I was in your slipstream and couldn't even get alongside you. You can talk about a lousy corner exit all you want but I was inside your slipstream for half the s/f line and no go.  >:(

Because we introduce a weight ballast to the cars it's SRou who's at fault. Perhaps Shark had a better setup here in the TVR, perhaps Shark is a better driver, perhaps we've got the weights wrong, perahps 10 degress track difference would have changed things. Could Shark have got passed you if the positions had been reversed? What will be the effect at Monza? It's just easier to blame the ballast isn't it. Interesting to see that to about 1 tenth of a second your lap times in qual and race were identical


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Truetom on November 01, 2006, 12:29:04 PM +0000
I was running 9 wing - 8 had too much loose rear a consequence. I agree there were more factors involved and to see the behaviour through more races. It's hardly possible to decide after one event.  :)  On to Brno, then.  8)

I agree, Picnic, lets wait and see.  :)  The work put into ballast pack was considerable, lets give it a chance.   :yes:

TT


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Simon Gymer on November 01, 2006, 12:29:47 PM +0000
Would be good to see TT and Mark do compartive testing at Valencia with ballast of the cars they feel are not matched anymore. (If you have time)
The more data we have the better the pack can be adjusted come the skin pack update.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Aagramn on November 01, 2006, 12:51:42 PM +0000
I thought we were originally intending to use ballast to slow down the aliens anyway? Thats where we needed to make the racing closer, so that the rest of us feel we have a chance on race night.

Unfortunately, there seems to be no practical way to give individual drivers ballast. GTR2 just won't let us do it.

Thought the ballast pack was a big improvement over the unballasted fun races for the NGT class, where there were only 2 competitive cars (M3 & RSR). The idea is to let people drive the cars they enjoy and to and race them competitively. Felt my 12th place in the M3 was a pretty fair reflection of my ability.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Mark J on November 01, 2006, 12:56:34 PM +0000
My concern was with the tyre wear rate from the now heavier cars and the fact that we've taken the racing characteristics out of certain car models.  Are you saying my take on physics is wrong? because for all my years of watching motorsport, its been heavy cars that cane their tyres harder than a light car  ::)
We also have to take on more fuel to make it the finish line, i'm guessing the lighter cars can take less?

If i wanted to sim drive a fat car i would drive a Vauxhall monaro or something similar, but i dont, i bought GTR2 because i want to sim race my favourite car, the Porsche with all its racing pedigree and idio-syncracies against other guys online in sleek Ferrarirs or nimble Morgans etc. I didnt want a fat guy sat in the back seat so someone in a slower make of car can catch me.

As expected this post has degenerated because some of you guys take any issue raised as a personal attack when its not. Re-read my posts and i said i wasnt bitching, just asking the question.
Hey ho, wanted to keep it friendly, i'll shut up and sit quietly at the back. :-X



Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Simon Gymer on November 01, 2006, 01:06:46 PM +0000
I was running 9 wing - 8 had too much loose rear a consequence.

I was running 8 (possibly 7 in the race to help on the straights), so one less than you.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on November 01, 2006, 01:12:23 PM +0000
As for the ballast, yes maybe 50kg is a full fuel load, but thats ontop of a full fuel load already in race trim ! :o  Do you not agree that tyres are going to suffer serious wear with all that extra weight, particularly in endurance? Drivers in TVR's and Nissans will be able to scamper home with non existent tyre wear as they are -??kg making them perfect for the enduro events. Has ballast effects been tested for longer distances?

Lots of people ran full fuel in Endurance last season in order to avoid having to refuel at the stop - if the extra weight caused that much wear they wouldn't have ben able to do that. 50kg is less than 5% of the vehicle's dry weight - I dare say track temperature makes much more difference. Based on my wear from last night and from earlier test races I could probably just about stretch mediums out to 75-80 minutes but they'd be bald by the end - it's not a strategy I plan to try!

I've said repeatedly that the ballast pack is very much an experiment, and we know we'll have to make some adjustments come mid-season when we've got some good real world data to back us up. Have I done any Endurance-length testing? No. Will the grids on Sunday be full of TVRs and Nissans and Veritslows? Er... no. I think I can safely predict that. In fact I'm hoping a few GT2s turn out so we can see what it's like when it has to stop of a tankerfull of fuel in Endurance.

Finally, to anyone who thinks the 911 has lots of midcorner and initial power understeer, you'd be right. It does. And? That's realism for you, the direct result of putting the engine in such a silly place. :P


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on November 01, 2006, 01:13:35 PM +0000
I ran 7 wing in the race last night (8 in qually) to ensure I could just about keep up with the TVRs. The 360s had a slight edge but not enough to slipstream past; in fact, even up behind a TVR I wasn't getting much of a tow at all.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Zacari on November 01, 2006, 01:18:26 PM +0000
My concern was with the tyre wear rate from the now heavier cars and the fact that we've taken the racing characteristics out of certain car models.  Are you saying my take on physics is wrong? because for all my years of watching motorsport, its been heavy cars that cane their tyres harder than a light car  ::)
We also have to take on more fuel to make it the finish line, i'm guessing the lighter cars can take less?

If i wanted to sim drive a fat car i would drive a Vauxhall monaro or something similar, but i dont, i bought GTR2 because i want to sim race my favourite car, the Porsche with all its racing pedigree and idio-syncracies against other guys online in sleek Ferrarirs or nimble Morgans etc. I didnt want a fat guy sat in the back seat so someone in a slower make of car can catch me.

As expected this post has degenerated because some of you guys take any issue raised as a personal attack when its not. Re-read my posts and i said i wasnt bitching, just asking the question.
Hey ho, wanted to keep it friendly, i'll shut up and sit quietly at the back. :-X



You're not driving a 'fat' car, you're driving one that's been ballasted to be equal with the competition as best as the game allows.  The tyer wear effect is negligable, it's very easy to test though:  Set up a practice session using 6x tyer wear and test the unballasted car followed by the ballasted one, checking the wear number after each stint.  do 3-5 tests and average the results and I'm willing to bet the numbers will be very similar.  Driving style will have more effect on the wear than the ballast.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Mark J on November 01, 2006, 01:20:35 PM +0000
Quote
I've said repeatedly that the ballast pack is very much an experiment,

i know, thats why i said i'm just raising concerns not bitching about it   :-*
But your still missing my point in that whatever fuel we choose to run in endurance, we've now already had the equivalent of a full tank bolted onto the car...and i'm guessing we will be limited in what strategy we can decide upon because of that :-\

Quote
Finally, to anyone who thinks the 911 has lots of midcorner and initial power understeer, you'd be right. It does. And? That's realism for you, the direct result of putting the engine in such a silly place. :P

True, but it now has even more of that midcorner understeer but has less power to weight ratio to power drive out of the corners...a Porsche strength ! and one that has done it pretty well over 30 years of motorsport  :P


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Aagramn on November 01, 2006, 01:44:03 PM +0000
My concern was with the tyre wear rate from the now heavier cars and the fact that we've taken the racing characteristics out of certain car models.  Are you saying my take on physics is wrong? because for all my years of watching motorsport, its been heavy cars that cane their tyres harder than a light car  ::)

Did anyone say that? Yes, the extra weight should affect tyre wear (unless the GTR2 physics doesn't calculate this properly, might check this with PD monitor). It's possible that the current ballast values will need tweaking to account for wear rates, difficult to say at the moment. It should be checked. I took a heavy BMW on soft tyres at both Doni and Valencia, and I didn't think increased tyre wear was a big problem. Hardly conclusive though.

If i wanted to sim drive a fat car i would drive a Vauxhall monaro or something similar, but i dont, i bought GTR2 because i want to sim race my favourite car, the Porsche with all its racing pedigree and idio-syncracies against other guys online in sleek Ferrarirs or nimble Morgans etc. I didnt want a fat guy sat in the back seat so someone in a slower make of car can catch me.

And I'd like to race cars I can enjoy competitively, and I think the ballast pack will help me do that. I'm not convinced the ballast has radically changed the driving characteristics of any of the cars. Suggest you try it offline at a couple other tracks - Valencia is a bit of a pig.

As expected this post has degenerated because some of you guys take any issue raised as a personal attack when its not. Re-read my posts and i said i wasnt bitching, just asking the question.
Hey ho, wanted to keep it friendly, i'll shut up and sit quietly at the back. :-X

I wasn't offended, what made you think that? As I've said before, there is nothing wrong with people posting their opinions. What does sometimes irritate me is the "you must be an idiot if you don't agree with me" attitude that I occasionally come across (fortunately there is a lot less of it on this forum than most).

It's impossible to please everyone all of the time. I'm just glad it's Dave who makes these decisions and not me. I'd probably get fed-up with it and decide it's not worth the hassle.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Simon Gymer on November 01, 2006, 01:57:20 PM +0000
we've now already had the equivalent of a full tank bolted onto the car...and i'm guessing we will be limited in what strategy we can decide upon because of that :-\

So a bit like someone driving the Mosler in GTR1 then as that uses 35% more fuel than the other cars anyway. :whistling:


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Mark J on November 01, 2006, 02:03:04 PM +0000
Quote
I wasn't offended, what made you think that? As I've said before, there is nothing wrong with people posting their opinions.

It wasnt meant for you Aagramn, it was just bad timing wth you posting just before i did  ;)

It was more aimed at those who jump down my throat if i (or anyone) try and raise an issue and then give me haughy responses like i am an irritation and shouldnt dare question things...this is a 'forum' after all.  :-*  As i've said before, i have huge respect for you guys that run this monster but it doesnt mean we will agree on everything and besides we all need a bit of niggle to keep the racing spicy !.

I personally dont like my Porker bloated out but i totally understand what SRoUK are trying to achieve.  :angel: Its simbin who should hang for not sorting out racing ballast individually.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Mark J on November 01, 2006, 02:12:39 PM +0000
Quote

So a bit like someone driving the Mosler in GTR1 then as that uses 35% more fuel than the other cars anyway. :whistling:

another one missing the point  ::) ...You took the Mosler because of its individual characteristics i presume?..like you did the Morgan, because although on paper it maybe an inferior car to the porsche, in your more than capable hands you could still race competitively against them, whereas, if say, i had driven the Morgan with my slightly less capable hands :-[  i would have floundered around the back of the grid, but if you had that V8 Mosler with a nice 50kg taken off its weight, you would have blown us all away instead of some good close racing...i suspect :-\ and we in the Porsches/fezzas might have cried 'foul'


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on November 01, 2006, 02:35:42 PM +0000
but if you had that V8 Mosler with a nice 50kg taken off its weight, you would have blown us all away instead of some good close racing...i suspect :-\ and we in the Porsches/fezzas might have cried 'foul'

Now, this is what I don't understand. If we'd had a spec racing series, like, ooh, the Elise Cup, and somebody who is clearly a quicker driver blows you away, nobody bats an eyelid. But we use a bit of ballast to even the cars up and suddenly slower drivers cry foul because they're being beaten? I don't think so! Anyway, he'd have just switched to the Vertigo and blown you away anyway! :P

Nobody is adding anything to the discussion any more. We're just going round in circles on the basis of two races at one circuit in one class. Bored now!


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Mark J on November 01, 2006, 02:44:58 PM +0000
for craps sake, i am not even complaining about somebody beating me in any car. Get off your high horses for once  >:( its other people who are twisting my original posts around in their own superior way. ::) I tried to raise some valid questions with regarding the effects of the ballast on an endurance event (or even sprint distance) and dared to say i didnt like the way a general ballast application affected individual car characteristics and all i get is sh*tty responses from the usual suspects.

Bored?..yeah too f*ing true. As usual case closed.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: RS on November 01, 2006, 04:40:26 PM +0000
Hmm intersting discussion from first race....

I see your point on the Elise race, and so the drivers winning should of been penalised with weight penalties and whilst simbin still did not implement it it can be done running the game on the server, then weights can be distributed per driver, takes about 2 miins.

I see Ruskus won in the Porsche GT2, I wouldn't mind betting he took that at the last minute or did it with 50% throttle as it is much faster and shouldn't be in the same category. Not a dig mate just an observation. Also M3 & 350Z should not even be in the class as they are only 24hr cars.

Fastest drivers should have the penalties not the car types, perhaps this could be worth looking into, it creates more work on race night but will be much fairer IMO.

RS



Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on November 01, 2006, 04:57:51 PM +0000
I see your point on the Elise race, and so the drivers winning should of been penalised with weight penalties and whilst simbin still did not implement it it can be done running the game on the server, then weights can be distributed per driver, takes about 2 miins.

Only if you can run the full game on the server and not the dedi. We can't because the server doesn't have a DX7-capable card - such servers are considerably more expensive than the one we use.

Only the rFactor dedi server allows proper control over penalty ballast.


Title: Re: UKGTR NGT Sprint Masters - Valencia GP - Oct 31
Post by: Dave 'Gizmo' Gymer on November 01, 2006, 04:59:41 PM +0000
Since we're clearly not discussing the event any more, this thread is locked and a new one (https://www.simracing.org.uk/smf/index.php?topic=2323.0) started specifically to discuss the ballast pack.